DDay#3...OM#4...Devestation

[DNU1]

while i do realise you lover her.but for the love of god "why are you staying"? she's never going to be faithful, she knows no matter what you'll take her back,christ you've caught her w/ 3 different men ( that you know of). just how much more disrespect are you going to put up with?

 

Mark, I'm not staying. I served her divorce papers on Friday. I do believe that OM#4 is still having an affair with my WW. She sees him every day.

 

BAsed on the portion of the texts posted above, can anyone feel she is NOT still seeing him?

[DNU1]

And for the record, everyone who has been told of the latest two OMs doesn't blame me. Family and the very few friends who know the whole story (four OMs), can't believe I didn't punt in December after OM#3.

 

I'd rate this a 9.5 on the scale. Only way it could get worse is if she were pregnant.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

And for the record, everyone who has been told of the latest two OMs doesn't blame me. Family and the very few friends who know the whole story (four OMs), can't believe I didn't punt in December after OM#3.

 

I'd rate this a 9.5 on the scale. Only way it could get worse is if she were pregnant.

 

Thanks for the details. This is a site you have posted to and opened your life to strangers. The detail now is much more specific and very little gray areas. The original post left out the details and frankly now I agree it is an 8 or a 9.... Unfortunately it was already a 7 in 1996 (no children)....

 

Frankly your story now makes me wonder whether there are more then 4....

[Darth Vader]

As far as nuclear exposure, I have exposed to my immediate family and two very close friends. I visited my wife's parents and gave them the whole story...my STBxWW only told them she had been unfaithful and that that I wanted a divorce. She was very ashamed and upset and did not tell them there were OMs #3 & #4.

 

Her father looked me in the eye and said, "I don't blame you one bit for divorcing your wife."

 

I will not expose to the OMs wife at this point. My STBxWW's job may be in jeapordy. I do not want that for the kiddos. It it were just me I could care less...but I will not put my children in financial jeapordy.

 

They are #1 priority for me right now.

 

Please understand that I feel I played a part in all of these affairs. I failed to meet my wife's needs. But I will not take responsibility for my wife being unfaithful to me. She made the decision to engage in these relationships, and she made the decision to have EAs and PAs with men outside the marriage.

 

 

The last part, NO, you didn't play a part in it at all! That's your STBX-Hex's Bull****, PERIOD! She's still blaming you for her actions! Why are you still accepting that you had any fault?

 

Why am I saying this? Because, she was just trying to justify her riding other men, Pointblank!

 

You see, It sounds like she's rewritting your marritial history by saying that if you would've done this or that it wouldn't have happened, NO! She's continuing her blameshifting! She's still lying to you to asswage her guilt, grief or whatever!

 

It doesn't matter what you did or didn't do, she STILL would've cheated on you! You worked your ass off and still she lied and continued to cheat! You ought to confront her on this part, perferably in front of reliable witnesses.

 

I can see she's full of ****!

 

She's just NO GOOD as a human being, or a wife.

 

Her father looked me in the eye and said, "I don't blame you one bit for divorcing your wife."

 

That right there ought to tell you something! I suspect that her father knows something more.

 

My point is, this has nothing to do with you, it has everything to do with her!

 

Although no one is perfect........ You're not guilty of one thing!

 

Get that in your head, it wouldn't have mattered what you did or didn't do.

[Darth Vader]

Oh, and there was no hostilities towards you my MAN! You've done way more than a whole lot of men! Your wife, or whatever you want to call her, just lost a VERY GOOD MAN!

 

HOOOOOrah!

[Reggie]

As far as nuclear exposure, I have exposed to my immediate family and two very close friends. I visited my wife's parents and gave them the whole story...my STBxWW only told them she had been unfaithful and that that I wanted a divorce. She was very ashamed and upset and did not tell them there were OMs #3 & #4.

 

Her father looked me in the eye and said, "I don't blame you one bit for divorcing your wife."

 

I will not expose to the OMs wife at this point. My STBxWW's job may be in jeapordy. I do not want that for the kiddos. It it were just me I could care less...but I will not put my children in financial jeapordy.

 

They are #1 priority for me right now.

 

Please understand that I feel I played a part in all of these affairs. I failed to meet my wife's needs. But I will not take responsibility for my wife being unfaithful to me. She made the decision to engage in these relationships, and she made the decision to have EAs and PAs with men outside the marriage.

 

DNUI, you need to realize your wife is a high functioning BPD or NPD, in all likeliehood. There is no way to meet her needs. She is a bottomless pit. It has nothing to do with meeting needs. Could not have been done. She is really broken and you need to see that you played no role.

[Reggie]

I agree, Dexter, our judicial system is pretty biased when it comes to childcare and I don't see that changing much in the near future.

 

It's an unfortunate reality that BH's get shafted twice, first by the betrayal and then by the loss of their children in their daily life if divorce follows the infidelity. It's also sad that men stay in bad marriages because they don't want to lose their children. They truly are caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

In this OP's case, I could easily see the wife agreeing to joint custody mainly because she is a doctor with a busy, and perhaps, erratic work schedule. The OP provides stability for the children.

 

He even said she loves the arrangement where he is caring for the children. Why forego such an arrangement if it works for both.

 

She would be crazy to seek full custody and then do what with the children...put them in daycare as opposed to allowing them to be cared for by their father?

 

I have a friend who has half-custody of his daughter. It's very equitable for both parents who work. Their daughter spends one week with mom, then one with dad, etc. They live near each other so there isn't much travel. He truly looks forward to his time with his daughter and enjoys reading to her and tucking her in at night.

 

She does not have much leverage in custody, at least in most states. Primary caregiver trumps female bias.

[Darth Vader]

She does not have much leverage in custody, at least in most states. Primary caregiver trumps female bias.

 

 

Thank GOD!

[DNU1]

Darth and others. I really appreciate your feedback and support. For FIVE months I had no one to talk to about this...not my brother, not my best friends, no one...but my STBxWW. To be able to post on boards like this and get this honest feedback really helps.

 

No, she didn't accuse me of being responsible for affairs...she blew up at me a few times when she felt I wasn't holding up my end of bargan. From what I've read, it's typical wayward speak...externalize their angst towards the betrayed spouse, making them look like bad guy. Add to that her naturally passive aggressive style and you got problems.

 

I'm a fixer and a worker. I dive right in when I see a problem. Unfortunately the STBxWW is the ultimate "taker" in relationships.

 

I'm sooooooo glad I had that software that enabled me to see her texts. Without that I would have lived the rest of my life in a LIE! I need to send that company a thank-you card!

 

Thanks Reggie...but what is BPD or NPD?

 

Seriously, the more I think about her the more I pitty her. She's got incredible issues and baggage. May God help her...cause I'm not doing it any more.

[tami-chan]

Dexter and JWI71,

 

It's good to see two men who know how to put their children FIRST above all else in even the most difficult of situations. How easy it would have been for either one of you to get revenge on your wives by using your children. It speaks volumes of your character and maturity that you did not do this.

.

Yes, pretty impressive and commendable..I have to admit that I thought Dexter Morgan was the type who would have used everything he has at his disposable to destroy the WS. What can I say, DM? You are pretty tough-take no prisoners kinda guy. I apologize for thinking that.

 

My children know nothing of my EA although they have questioned mine and my husband's behavior - my sadness, my mood swings, my withdrawal, and dad's irritability. They know the relationship has been strained but we have both done our best to appear "normal." We do not feel the details are their business and we have both done what we could to shield them from what we consider to be "OUR" problems.

 

I totally agree with this. I just can't even imagine how much hatred and anger pushes somebody to go on a campaign to destroy the mother/father to his children. It is not about truth, it is not about love for the children. It is about revenge (as JWi71 had mentioned) and punishing the WS.

 

I also think a person who chooses to tell the children using language meant to discredit or to manipulate the kids into hating the other spouse do so because they are afraid that the children might actually be able to foster a good relationship with the other parent. Pre-emptive strike, I guess, to eliminate the threat.

 

It's horrible to use children like that...talking crap about one's spouse or ex-spouse is tantamount to talking crap to half of what your child is made of (50% mom, 50%dad). I read somewhere that if a spouse says "your mom/dad is a horrible person"-many kids think that part of them is horrible-after all this is the time when they are "mini-mes"-trying on mom's high heels or splashing on dad's cologne...etc.

 

Adultery is horrible all around. No ifs and buts about it...but there is an appropriate time to tell the children...perhaps when they have already developed a strong sense of self. When they are their own person- separate entities from their parents.

[soserious1]

Maybe something is wrong with my thinking but I've always felt that some aspects of my life are very private, off limits even to my adult children and that my sexual/romantic life is out of bounds and not on the table for discussion.

 

In real time life there's like one person who knows the real reasons for my divorce, somehow the thought of either parent going into detail about an affair just seems wrong I could never put such a burden on an 8 yr old.

[Reggie]

I think truth is very healthy, for everyone. No need for graphic details or badmouthing. Just let know what happend. All the secrecy and pushing all this aside and living a lie is not good modeling for kids, IMO. These deep dark family secrets are just not good.

[Reggie]

DNUI, BPD and NPD are two of the "cluster B" personality disorders listed in the DSM IV. Thye are disproportinately present among the cheating population, and particularly prevalent in serial cheaters like your wife.

There are nine criteria listed for the DX and 5 out of 9 is suffucuent for a diagnosis.

In most cases , one does not get a diagnosis from a professional, because, typically, folks with personality disorders are unwilling to seek therapy and the dx is hard to make because the PD person does not reveal his or her real behaviors in therapy.

You might try talking to a psychologist that is veresed in this stuff. I had no idea what it was I was dealing with until I started describing myXWW's behaviors during our marriage to a therapist. I helped me understand that these PD's are intractable and ine is so depleted by dealing with them.

[soserious1]

I think truth is very healthy, for everyone. No need for graphic details or badmouthing. Just let know what happend. All the secrecy and pushing all this aside and living a lie is not good modeling for kids, IMO. These deep dark family secrets are just not good.

 

I think there's a big difference in keeping dark family secrets and telling an 8 yr old that mom had sex with another man. Obviously, if the WS moves in immediately with their affair partner the children will need to be told something along the lines of "Mom fell out of love with me and in love with Bill, I'm really sad and hurt but I will be okay and we will both continue to love you kids..etc.

 

 

As to other people, I can honestly say that when I announced my divorce, I just quietly explained that we hadn't had much in common in a long time and had major conflicts over fiscal issues, both things were true and were readily accepted without much, if any prying by anyone, including extended family members. I suspect that many people are relieved when they don't get "blow by blow" accounts of the divorces of family/friends. I think it is kinder and doesn't put people in the lousy position of having to choose sides.

[tami-chan]

I think there's a big difference in keeping dark family secrets and telling an 8 yr old that mom had sex with another man. Obviously, if the WS moves in immediately with their affair partner the children will need to be told something along the lines of "Mom fell out of love with me and in love with Bill, I'm really sad and hurt but I will be okay and we will both continue to love you kids..etc.

 

 

As to other people, I can honestly say that when I announced my divorce, I just quietly explained that we hadn't had much in common in a long time and had major conflicts over fiscal issues, both things were true and were readily accepted without much, if any prying by anyone, including extended family members. I suspect that many people are relieved when they don't get "blow by blow" accounts of the divorces of family/friends. I think it is kinder and doesn't put people in the lousy position of having to choose sides.

 

I agree with you, soserious. Kids shoudn't have to be made to choose between parents.

[taylor]

When I spoke to my wife about how to tell the kiddos I simply said they need to be told the truth. No details. No coersion. How could I control her anyway....she's been in multiple affairs that I know of. This woman will do what she wants, when she wants.

 

The TRUTH could have been: Mommy and Daddy's marriage is not working. We tried but we are still both very unhappy so we are divorcing.

 

OR

 

The TRUTH could have been: Mommy had sex with 4 men behind my back. The last man wants to grab mommy's chest when she shows it to him. And she had sex with 3 other men that I know of. I just can't take that kind of stuff happening anymore, so we are getting a divorce.

 

BOTH are SIMPLY the truth. It's all in where you draw the line with an 8 yo. In my opinion, your 8 yo could have been told the truth about the marriage failure and the impending divorce without any DETAILS of an affair that obviously WILL put one parent in a bad light to the children. Bringing up the AFFAIR points a finger..puts blame for the divorce on ONE parent...makes ONE parent out to be the bad guy.

 

YES, your wife had several affairs. She IS 100 percent responsible for the affairs. BUT it takes two for a marriage to work and two for a marriage to fail. Your marriage has been limping along for more than a decade. But by telling the children you are divorcing because mommy had an affair is NOT the whole truth..it's only enough truth to put the entire blame for the divorce on your wife.

 

I would have liked her to stop short of saying "had sex with another man" but those were the words she choose. And I have that on tape...and over an hour of conversation between her and me before we talked to the kiddos

 

This was perhaps the most important talk you will ever have with your children during their childhood. Why didn't you and your wife sit down and discuss between the two of you EXACTLY what would be told to the children...letter by letter? You said you talked with your wife for an hour before discussing things with the kiddos. It's hard for me to believe you didn't know exactly what she was going to say. Responsible parents would have been VERY CLEAR about what was and wasn't going to be said to the children and it would have been a JOINT DECISION.

 

If you weren't happy with what she told them...if you truly wanted her to stop short of telling them she had sex with another man....why did you say in another post that you were "IMPRESSED" with what she said? You expressed no concern whatsoever that your wife shared TMI with your young children.

 

And why did you put all that on tape? A souvenir, perhaps? Something the kids could replay over the course of their lifetime when they get bored..or when they want to relive a few childhood memories???

 

School counselors said it was good that my WW told the kids of the other man so that they understand this was not their fault. Hiding, half-truths, making Daddy out to be to blame would not be good in the long run.

 

Your kiddos didn't need to know your wife was screwing another man to understand the divorce is not their fault.

 

Not discussing the details of an affair is NOT hiding the truth. It's sparing young children from gory details that are not age-appropriate. Telling your kiddos mommy liked another man would have been sufficient for now.

 

You did tell your children a half-truth. You told them you were divorcing because of an affair. The WHOLE truth would have been discussing all the other affairs and going into great detail about your failing marriage for the past decade, all the counseling, etc.

 

Who was making Daddy out to blame? Are you saying she had to tell the children about the affair so that the children didn't blame YOU for the divorce...point the finger at her for the failed marriage before she points it at you? Make sure the kids know it was mommy who ruined their childhoods and not daddy? Was that the purpose of going into detail about the affair?

 

I still believe it takes two to make a marriage work and two to destroy it. And THIS is an important lesson for children to learn.

 

Your wife has had a number of affairs. I don't understand why you stayed with her after the first one. Let alone the 2nd or 3rd.

 

You said you worked your tail off to meet her needs. What was she doing while you were working your tail off? Was she meeting your needs? If not, why have you stayed with her this long?

 

Your marriage has been bad for a very long time. And I think your wife's love for you dried up a long time ago. Why either one of you stayed in this marriage is beyond me.

 

Divorce and find someone who will love you the way a man deserves to be loved.

 

 

 

My STBxWW continues to say this affair current affair is over. How shes justifies this I'm not sure. Maybe she told him it's over after I confronted her last WEd. She continues to say "sex one time..."

 

I wish she would just come clean. It's only going to rip open old wounds when/if she tells me the complete truth two, three, six months down the road.

 

Why do you care how many times she had sex with this guy? Why do you even care if she is still having the affair? Who cares if she comes clean or not with the details?

 

The truth is she is a serial cheater and has been one for the last decade. You are divorcing her because you no longer want to live with a cheater. What more do you need to know? Just go get your divorce, for heaven's sake. It's long overdue.

 

I did nothing wrong here. I did nothing wrong here.

 

No, you did nothing wrong except stay with a person who hasn't loved you for the past decade. Make the wrong, right. Divorce.

[taylor]

DNUI, BPD and NPD are two of the "cluster B" personality disorders listed in the DSM IV. Thye are disproportinately present among the cheating population, and particularly prevalent in serial cheaters like your wife.

There are nine criteria listed for the DX and 5 out of 9 is suffucuent for a diagnosis.

In most cases , one does not get a diagnosis from a professional, because, typically, folks with personality disorders are unwilling to seek therapy and the dx is hard to make because the PD person does not reveal his or her real behaviors in therapy.

You might try talking to a psychologist that is veresed in this stuff. I had no idea what it was I was dealing with until I started describing myXWW's behaviors during our marriage to a therapist. I helped me understand that these PD's are intractable and ine is so depleted by dealing with them.

 

The wife is a medical doctor surrounded by medical doctors/nurses.

 

She and her husband have been in and out of counseling with therapists for years.

 

Don't you think someone somewhere down the line would have picked up on BPD or NPD if she had it?

[taylor]

I think truth is very healthy, for everyone. No need for graphic details or badmouthing. Just let know what happend. All the secrecy and pushing all this aside and living a lie is not good modeling for kids, IMO. These deep dark family secrets are just not good.

 

I agree with you, REggie, that deep dark family secrets are not healthy. They can destroy a person when the secret comes to light.

 

But I don't think parents withholding "adult material" from young children until the time comes when such material becomes age-appropriate is the same as "hiding" it or "lying" about it.

 

I just don't think 8 year olds have the mental capacity to correctly process all the ramifications of extra-marital affairs and to put them in the proper perspective. Heck, I'm still learning myself.

 

I also think learning of a parent's divorce is traumatizing to a child and is enough detail for them to try to process and deal with emotionally. Discussing all the details of what caused the marriage to fail on an 8 year old is emotional overload, IMO.

[Dexter Morgan]

Mark, I'm not staying. I served her divorce papers on Friday.

 

And her reaction to it? I bet she could have cared less.

 

Trust me my man, this is the best thing for you. You don't need someone like her in your life. Nobody does.

[Dexter Morgan]

YES, your wife had several affairs. She IS 100 percent responsible for the affairs. BUT it takes two for a marriage to work

 

The above statement I agree with.

 

 

 

and two for a marriage to fail.

 

 

but this statement...not so much...at least in this case and alot of others, but not all cases.

 

he was willing to work on it, "fix it" as he put it, but it was her cheating and her unwillingness to do right by her husband that caused it to fail.

 

He was willing to make it work even after what she did...but she wasn't going to have any of it.

 

Therefore because she wasn't willing to do what it took, and he was, the marriage failed because of her.

 

it takes two for a marriage to "work"...but alot of times, it only takes one to really f##k it all up.

[Reggie]

My kids know about their mom's infidelity and still love her, which is good. Disclosure may have cast her in a bad light but it did not force the kids to choose one parent over the other.

Obviously, I did not give any details re the physical activities. I think the kids should know what transpired. It did not traumatize them, as far as I can tell. But, it gave them an explanation as to what really happened, which they deserve, IMO.

[Reggie]

Clearly, it takes only one person to make a marriage fail. In many cases, it is both, but that is not a requirement.

As for the picking up on NPD or BPD, no, I do not think that co-workers would neccessarily pick up on it, and many counselors miss it.

I do not know if she has it, but with serial cheating and habitual lying, the odds of it are dramatically increased.

[jwi71]

it takes two for a marriage to "work"...but alot of times, it only takes one to really f##k it all up.

 

Perfectly said and I completely agree...

[taylor]

Some things are impossible to lighten. How is it that you can find fault with the husband in all of this? He's not the one who cheated. However, he and his children are the ones who will pay for her actions, she got all the sex and orgasms, but, they pay for it! As far as him being hell bent, yes, he should be, there should be all kinds of consequences for her actions, like exposure, so the family can see who and what she really is.

 

I find fault in both parents for not considering the AGE of their children when discussing their impending divorce. BOTH parents should have chosen their words carefully, being sensitive to the needs of their young children.

 

The children could easily have been told that the parents were divorcing because mommy and daddy are not happy, mommy met someone else she is happier with, and they are divorcing so that daddy can find someone new to be happy with, too.

 

THAT'S age appropriate.

 

I also believe this husband, while emotionally distraught, put his own selfish interests above his children's BEST interests by being hell-bent on nuclear exposure. A father who had his children's best interests at heart would have wanted to SHIELD THEM from the most hurtful information. He had a choice to do this type of damage control. He could have told his wife under no circumstances whatsoever does he want the children to know about the affair...until they are old enough to understand all that it entails. And he could have kept the affair under wraps to prevent gossip in the community from getting back to his children which is just what nuclear exposure will do.

 

The wife is guilty of having an affair. But he is guilty of wanting to hurt EVERYONE, including his children, by broadcasting it to the world.

 

You say nuclear exposure is necessary so that EVERYONE knows who and what the cheater is.

 

If the person is a pedofile or a murderer...someone the general public needs to be alerted to for their own safety...I can understand the need to inform.

 

But why the NECESSITY to inform the world about someone's infidelity? The only reason is REVENGE..PAYBACK...and it is totally SELF-SERVING. The children do not benefit whatsoever from the knowledge that one of their parents committed adultery.

 

I have a friend whose husband is an alcoholic and has been one for years. Her main goal for years has been to keep his disease as discreet as possible, rather than broadcast it to the world. WHY? To protect her children from community gossip. She also did her best to shield her children from the worst of it at home...sending them to the neighbors to play when he was puking his guts out...or quietly calling a friend to pick her drunk husband up at the bar and keeping him overnight so the children wouldn't have to be exposed to it.

 

What would you have had her done...."Hey kids. Dad's drunk and puking again. Who's turn is it to hold the puke bucket? Hey, kids, dad's falling off the stool at the bar. Get up. Get in the car. Gotta go get him. Your father is a drunk and he's ruining all of our lives..."

 

What do you say to an 8 year old?

 

I guess it all comes down to different parenting styles. Some protect and shield children from the cruel adult world. Others hit the kids between the eyes with reality.

[Dexter Morgan]

I find fault in both parents for not considering the AGE of their children when discussing their impending divorce. BOTH parents should have chosen their words carefully, being sensitive to the needs of their young children.

 

again, my kids are too young...and I won't tell unless they ask.

 

So if they are of teenage years, and they come to me and ask me what happened, I'll have to say..."well, you mother spread her legs for a few different men while married to me.......now if thats all the questions you have, I need to get back to mowing the yard.":cool: