DDay#3...OM#4...Devestation

[Reggie]

Never look back. You are getting away from one of the more abusive people I've seen described. Good luck.

[DNU1]

Yes, thanks Reggie. That's why I'd like her out of the house asap. She can be really nice, like last night. But I keep reminding myself of the e-mails and texts she sent to the OMs. I keep reading them and thinking to myself, "how can this be the woman I loved for so long...?"

 

If you asked me what her issues are I'd say they are deep seated, sub-conscious problems. She's not the "I'm having an affair, deal with it, tough beans" kind of wayward spouse.

 

She has high need for attention. She has high need to be found attractive by men. She has nigh need for conversation. She has low self-esteem. She has weak boundaries.

 

The thing is I found her incredibly attractive and loved our conversations. I couldn't keep my hands off her, lots of attention, hugs, sneaking kisses here and there, snuggle on the couch while watching TV, spoon in bed pretty much all night. She filled my emotional need for affection.

 

But I could never meet her needs. I could never fill that void. I believe she was always needing more...and more. And even though I was giving her all I could it just was never going to be enough. There was always going to be that void...that needed to be filled...that she would go outside the marriage to get filled.

 

And throughout our marriage I have always tried to help her, tried to solve her problems with her.

 

Now I am free from that burden. I can no longer help her. This is in God's hands now. I hope for her sake that she figures this chit out. Or she's doomed to a life of searching. Searching for that next *high* of conversation, attention, affection, etc.

 

God help her. I'm done...

 

Now, after that brief interlude, I'm back to concentrating on my wonderful children and taking care of myself. Hit the gym yesterday and back at it again today. Taking care of my mental and physical health. Moving forward. One day at a time...

[Reggie]

DNUI, I was in a similar situation. When I described myXWW's behaviors to my therapist and my attorney( a law school classmate who was a Social Worker in her previous career), I was pointed toward researching the clluster B personality disorders.

You have identified in your wife one of the hallmarks of these disorders, the emptiness, the void, that cannot be filled. And, you will exhaust yourself trying to do so.

Her serial cheating and sense of entitlement scream disorder. These disorders are intractable, very resistant to any form of treatment.

I am so happy you will be getting the kids. I had no shot, as my XWW was a SAHM, although she did almost no work around the house and was focused on tanning and shopping for herself.

My therapist has told me in all seriousness that continuing to live as I had been, working 3 jobs to keep up with the spending, sleeping in the basement as the kids slept in bed with her, putting out financial fires that she would start and walking in a minefield to avoid rages, would have killed me.

You need to be very careful about not making concessions in this divorce. Nice guys have a tendency to give away things they are entitled to because of guilt over the divorce. You have been the primary caregiver to the kids and should have them. You sacrificed your career to take care of the kids and are entilted to support and a share of her retirement.

Tell your lawyer to slap you if you start to waffle on getting what you are entitled to.

[Bryanp]

Reggie,

 

I just have to say that you described the boarderline Personality perfectly. This is what caused my divorce. In almost all cases, you are wasting your time hoping that a spouse with this disorder can change. They generally will destroy everything around them. They can never be happy.

[DNU1]

Thanks for the feedback Reggie. I will NOT give her concessions regarding this divorce. We are working on a temp agreement that will give me physical custody of the kids and we would share joint legal custody. should have that hammered out by tomorrow. Wife and I agree on child custody arrangements.

 

The strange thing is that I was completely happy throughout most of our marriage. Yes, the medical school OMs were gutwrenching, and these past 7 months have been very taxing on my life. But i've grown and developed as a person, as a man and as a father.

 

We shared great times. We shared sad times. We shared the birth of our kids, new jobs, new houses, vacations, sitting by the firepit drinking a beer, waking up in each others arms. It was a great ride. 20+ years.

 

Even thought it seemed great for 20 years, looking back I can see I was the *giver* and she the *taker* in our relationship. I'm looking forward to meeting someone, someday, who will meet my emotional needs and give more than my STBxWW ever could.

[soserious1]

Even thought it seemed great for 20 years, looking back I can see I was the *giver* and she the *taker* in our relationship. I'm looking forward to meeting someone, someday, who will meet my emotional needs and give more than my STBxWW ever could.

 

Look at things this way, if you play your cards right your STBXW will get the chance to do some giving, she'll get to pay hefty court ordered child support including the kid's college bills. If you're smart she'll also get to pay you alimony till the day you die and you can haul her back into court regularly every couple of years to review her finances and get the amounts she must pay you increased.

[DNU1]

Update: We proposed a temp order that STBxWW and I pretty much agreed on. WE agree on custody (joint legal, me with physical) and a parenting plan for May and June. I asked that she find another place to sleep within 30 days, but she can come and go as pleases. And on weekends where she has kids she can stay here Fri and SAt night. But i WILL NOT SLEEP elsewhere! Done.

 

Her attorney didn't like that wording, so they counter proposed. But I stuck to my guns and said, "either agree to temp or we see judge on Friday...and he might just let me lock you out and get ugly."

 

So she agreed to temp order, which was great weight lifted off my back. So now, after two weeks of me being with kiddos 100% of time (wife couldn't be alone with them per the Ex Parte), I can rest a little.

 

Attorney is happy and so am I. This is moving along rather well for us. We now continue to gather finacial information and press on.

 

Hopefully she will be sleeping elsewhere soon. It's hard to have her here.

[GorillaTheater]

Very, very well done. Gotta say that I'm proud of you and way you're handling yourself.

[taylor]

Update: We proposed a temp order that STBxWW and I pretty much agreed on. WE agree on custody (joint legal, me with physical) and a parenting plan for May and June. I asked that she find another place to sleep within 30 days, but she can come and go as pleases. And on weekends where she has kids she can stay here Fri and SAt night. But i WILL NOT SLEEP elsewhere! Done.

 

If your wife finds another place to live tomorrow, next week, or in a month, why would she need/want to stay in your home on the weekends she has the kids? I would think she would want the kids to stay with her at her new place. That makes more sense to me.

 

And why would you want her in the house anyways on those weekends?

 

The faster she moves out, the sooner you will be able to start the healing process DNU.

 

You said you are addicted to this woman. The best way to break an addiction is No Contact. Of course you have to have some kind of relationship with her because you have children together, but why subject yourself to more contact than is necessary, ie., allowing her to stay in the home for weekends at a time.

 

I doubt she will want to come "visiting" on weekends once she finds her own place. And that would be a good thing for you, too.

 

 

 

Hopefully she will be sleeping elsewhere soon. It's hard to have her here.

 

All the more reason for her to find her own place and see the kids there...not in your home.

[Reggie]

I suspect this is just temporary, taylor, until things are further along. No court will endorse this agreement longterm.

[DNU1]

Yes Reggie and Taylor. This is temp agreement. The more and more I read the old e-mails, texts, the more I think about her being on-call, her suspecious activities, the less power she holds over me. When she breaks out the tears I just look at her and think to myself, "you got yourself in to this mess...you have to deal with it...no sympathy from me."

 

Me being around her also keeps the lines of communication open. I can influence her and move her towards the end results I want to see happen. I've got logic on my side...she's got emotions and feelings. I win most of those battles

 

Her being in the house on weekends she has kids is a compromise. And when it's her weekend I can basically LEAVE and she's in charge of kids and dog. She's not in charge much by herself, never really has been throughout our marriage. It will be a big wake up call when she comes for the weekend and I'm headed out the door But I get to sleep in the house! I'll come rolling back in around 1:00 AM some night...

 

Thanks for the kind words donnamaybe!

[taylor]

Yes Reggie and Taylor. This is temp agreement. The more and more I read the old e-mails, texts, the more I think about her being on-call, her suspecious activities, the less power she holds over me. When she breaks out the tears I just look at her and think to myself, "you got yourself in to this mess...you have to deal with it...no sympathy from me."

 

Me being around her also keeps the lines of communication open. I can influence her and move her towards the end results I want to see happen. I've got logic on my side...she's got emotions and feelings. I win most of those battles

 

Her being in the house on weekends she has kids is a compromise. And when it's her weekend I can basically LEAVE and she's in charge of kids and dog. She's not in charge much by herself, never really has been throughout our marriage. It will be a big wake up call when she comes for the weekend and I'm headed out the door But I get to sleep in the house! I'll come rolling back in around 1:00 AM some night...

 

Just be careful with all of this DNU.

 

You sound strong and perhaps you do have logic on your side, but you have also just been dealt a mighty blow and the wounds have to still be raw. Don't put yourself in a position for her to pour more salt into those wounds.

 

I understand the need to feel like you have some control over your own life...but just be careful.

[DNU1]

Thanks taylor. I will stay strong.

 

What things could I possibly encounter in your opinion? What to be careful about?

 

I'm not sure how she can pour more salt in wounds. If she is indeed still ongoing with the OM (which, for the record, I stil believe she is...) that's only going to piss me off more and want more support/alimony.

 

I'm being very careful. Tell me more why you are suggesting caution...

[Reggie]

I just wanted to add, DNUI, that it is highly likely you know only the tip of the iceberg re her infidelities. You will most likely never know the entire story, but you have more than enough.

I add this just in case you have second thoughts and think she can be fixed. This is a woman who has probably been doing this type of thing most of her adult life. You know of a few affairs, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts there are more. These are not an abberation for her. These behaviors are well entrenched.

I found out additonal stuff about my XWW after the divorce and it was mind boggling. Amazing how one can live with someone all those years and not have a clue. I hate the fact that I am now more 'knowledgeable" as to how these folks work and what some people are capable of. But, it is neccessary out there in the jungle, I guess.

I know this is still painful, although you are doing well, all things considered. It gets better with time.

As dumb as I am, I still find myself wondering if, after 3 years out, my XWW will get help, apologize and turn her crazy life around. But, it is not my problem anymore, thank God.

[DNU1]

Yes, Reggie, I know exactly how you feel. I look back on our marraige and think about male 'friends' my STBxWW had, wondering if they were really friends? Or OMs? I think of all the touchy situations, the uncomfortable times meetings her co-workers, the times when she could have lied to my face.

 

I *know* there is more to her history than what I've been told. How can there not be? But you know, I'm starting to not care any more. i look at her and I don't see the beauty I once did. I in no way see the innocense I once did. She's not attractive to me in any way right now. Okay, the boobies are very nice, but I don't want to ever touch them again.

 

I told the STBxWW the other day that I hope she, the counselor and God are able to find out why she is how she is. I also said it's in her hands now...and Gods...I can no longer help her. Period.

 

I'm moving forward. I'm looking forward to life with my kids, taking care of them and my needs...not hers.

 

It's liberating. It's freedom I have not had in 20 years. For 20 years I've been taking care of her. Now I am free. Freedom. Freedom! FREEDOM!

[taylor]

Thanks taylor. I will stay strong.

 

What things could I possibly encounter in your opinion? What to be careful about?

 

I'm not sure how she can pour more salt in wounds. If she is indeed still ongoing with the OM (which, for the record, I stil believe she is...) that's only going to piss me off more and want more support/alimony.

 

I'm being very careful. Tell me more why you are suggesting caution...

 

Your resolve does sound strong, DNU, especially after reading your last post. You sound like a man of steel.

 

BUT, you are still human and you still have a beating heart. I just want to make sure you are going to protect it.

 

Things are going to change around your house. She won't be there like usual. You may miss her. You may even start looking forward to seeing her on those scheduled weekends. And when she is there playing and romping with the kids..making dinner, it may remind you of old times. It may cause some pangs in your heart you weren't expecting.

 

And of course there's those boobies..A man with no sex for awhile can be a very vulnerable man...

 

How would you feel if she got a cell phone call from the OM while she was visiting the children in your home? How would you feel if you overheard her make plans with him? Could you keep your head together and control your emotions?

 

And what would you do if she tries to sweet talk you..tries to get you to soften. Women do have their ways, you know. What would you do if she tried to tell you it was all just a big mistake, big misunderstanding, and that she never stopped loving you. What if she tries to lure you into the bedroom. What would you do?

 

I just want you to protect your heart. It's been beat up enough.

 

Another thing to consider: What if while she is in the house she tries to keep tabs on everything you are doing...snoops thru your legal papers, your financial papers, checks YOUR phone log...keeps track of your comings and goings and how you are caring for the children. What if she tries to use something against you in court. The less she knows about you, the better.

 

Continued contact with her can't be good, either personally or legally, IMO. Although I do recall this expression: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Maybe there is some truth to that.

 

I am sure men who have gone thru divorce can shed much better light than I can on how to relate to your stbxw.

 

My initial concern was for your own emotional well-being. Why add to the emotioinal stress by having her in the house all weekend long?

 

But you sound strong, DNU. I will pray that you can stay that way. It's not an easy road to travel. I am sure you will find great strength in your children. You need them and they need you.

[DNU1]

Your resolve does sound strong, DNU, especially after reading your last post. You sound like a man of steel.

 

BUT, you are still human and you still have a beating heart. I just want to make sure you are going to protect it.

 

Things are going to change around your house. She won't be there like usual. You may miss her. You may even start looking forward to seeing her on those scheduled weekends. And when she is there playing and romping with the kids..making dinner, it may remind you of old times. It may cause some pangs in your heart you weren't expecting.

 

I hear you loud and clear. When I feel the pangs in my heart, I fire up the blackberry and read the e-mails and texts she sent to the OMs. Brings me right back to reality, and FAST! I think how could this monster say such things to these OMs while telling me to my face that she loved me. Ick.

 

And of course there's those boobies..A man with no sex for awhile can be a very vulnerable man...

 

Ah yes, the boobies. Honestly, I really loved her natural look. The natural boobies were incredibly soft and nice. I suggested she think about fake boobies because I wanted to make right something i shot her down on long time ago -- I shut her down when she talked about fake boobies years ago.

 

The new boobies look great in clothes, but they feel too firm and unnatural, at least the last time I had my hands on them 2+ weeks ago. And to think that another man has had his hands on them since then...ICK.

 

How would you feel if she got a cell phone call from the OM while she was visiting the children in your home? How would you feel if you overheard her make plans with him? Could you keep your head together and control your emotions?

 

She keeps denying anything is going on between her and the latest OM. I seriously doubt that. And he's married, so calls and texts will be limited. They see each other at work every day. So a call is unlikely.

 

My sense is she will continue to lie about him and keep their communication / hookups secret. She may flaunt that in my face after the divorce, but i'm sure she feels if I knew for sure it was still going on i'd want the shirt off her back in settlement. She doesn't want to piss me off right now.

 

And what would you do if she tries to sweet talk you..tries to get you to soften. Women do have their ways, you know. What would you do if she tried to tell you it was all just a big mistake, big misunderstanding, and that she never stopped loving you. What if she tries to lure you into the bedroom. What would you do?

 

there is no physical attraction there at all right now. And after talking to my doc about STDs, I wouldn't touch her with a 10 foot pole. She admitted to unprotected sex with OM#3. I'm only guessing unprotected with OM#4 as well. Ick.

 

I just want you to protect your heart. It's been beat up enough.

 

Another thing to consider: What if while she is in the house she tries to keep tabs on everything you are doing...snoops thru your legal papers, your financial papers, checks YOUR phone log...keeps track of your comings and goings and how you are caring for the children. What if she tries to use something against you in court. The less she knows about you, the better.

 

She can snoop all she wants. I've got all my important documents off the computer and all my computer had keylogger to detect any snooping she might do. I've warned her that any action on my computer is logged. So I doubt she will try any of that...and I can verify.

 

Continued contact with her can't be good, either personally or legally, IMO. Although I do recall this expression: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Maybe there is some truth to that.

 

That's part of the reason I'm okay with her being here. I can work on her logically and subtly. Her only defense mechanism (or offensive vs. me) is her teary eyed sob stories. I don't feel sorry for her one bit. She made this bed, now she gets to lie in it.

 

I am sure men who have gone thru divorce can shed much better light than I can on how to relate to your stbxw.

 

My initial concern was for your own emotional well-being. Why add to the emotioinal stress by having her in the house all weekend long?

 

But you sound strong, DNU. I will pray that you can stay that way. It's not an easy road to travel. I am sure you will find great strength in your children. You need them and they need you.

 

Thanks for the words of wisdom Taylor. I appreciate your thoughts on this. Keep them coming. I will remain strong. I will prevail for myself and my kiddos.

[Reggie]

Sometimes I wish I had the entire story. It is just so weird that all this went on for so long and I do not know exactly what happened. Not even sure if my kids are biologically mine. What a crazy world this is.

[DNU1]

Reggie: Some days I want to know, other days I could care less. Looking back on our marriage I'm remembering times in our lives where I was uncomfortable with male *friends* of hers. Situations that just didn't add up...yet I brushed them off as coincidence, telling myself "there is no way she would do that to me AGAIN."

 

Certain male friends, or co-workers(?) Late nights out(?) Strange behavior(?)

 

The deal breaker was her flat our lying to me since December when I asked her repeatedly, "is there anything else in the past that I need to know about. Any other men you have had an affair with...ANYTHING?" And her looking me straight in the eye, often times in my arms, and saying, "Nope, nothing. Nothing but what you know."

 

Gggggggggaaaaaaaaaaa...

 

I still obsess and want to know all the details, all the other men. But that feeling is going away. Hard to explain why I *need to know.* Maybe it's to learn what signs to look for in my next relationship. It's more likely that my *fixer* and *helper* is kicking in and I'm trying to once again fix her problems.

 

I just have to keep reminding myself that this isn't about her any more. It's about taking care of me! It's about taking care of my children! It's about moving on with my life.

 

I'm a sucker for a pretty face...always have been. I need to be veeeeery careful what relationships I get involved in after this divorce. I've put up with a lot of crap from my STBxWW...need to make sure I don't get in to another co-dependent / enabler type relationship. I need someone who will care about me, and treat me right. Not someone whom I'm always trying to please, or fix, or make things right in her world.

 

Help me hang tough.

[taylor]

I'm a sucker for a pretty face...always have been. I need to be veeeeery careful what relationships I get involved in after this divorce. I've put up with a lot of crap from my STBxWW...need to make sure I don't get in to another co-dependent / enabler type relationship. I need someone who will care about me, and treat me right. Not someone whom I'm always trying to please, or fix, or make things right in her world.

 

You will come out the other side of this divorce a stronger and wiser person, DNU.

 

I am amazed at how clearly you are thinking under the duress.

 

You know, I think most men are suckers for a pretty face, despite the adages, "Don't judge a book by its cover" and "True beauty lies within."

 

But what prompted me to respond to your post here is what you said at the end..what I bolded.

 

My therapist told me there is always a "lover" and and "lovee" in a relationship. It's pretty easy to tell who is who. The lover is the giver and the lovee is the taker. The lover invests continuous and unlimited time and energy into the relationship and into his partner. The lovee is the recipient of that investment.

 

My therapist says it "sucks" sometimes to be the "lover." You give more of your heart and you take the greater risk of getting it trampled on.

 

You have been the lover in your marriage. I hope in your next relationship you get to be the lovee.

[taylor]

Sometimes I wish I had the entire story. It is just so weird that all this went on for so long and I do not know exactly what happened. Not even sure if my kids are biologically mine. What a crazy world this is.

 

Reggie,

 

You are your children's father in every way that is important, regardless of whether or not they are biologically yours.

 

If you got paternity testing done tomorrow and the results showed you were not their biological father, would it make you love them any less?

 

Yours is a very sad story. And it is quite unfair, because of the way human reproduction is, that men really have no way of knowing for sure if they fathered a particular child, unless of course the child is a spitting image or paternity testing is done. Otherwise, he has nothing to go on but the mother's word.

[DNU1]

You have been the lover in your marriage. I hope in your next relationship you get to be the lovee.

 

Amen to that! Being 40+, balding and not employed, I often think what crazy woman would want to be with me. But everyone, from family to friends who really know me, know the lover / giver I am, feel once I'm ready I won't be on the market for long.

 

That's reassuring...

[taylor]

Amen to that! Being 40+, balding and not employed, I often think what crazy woman would want to be with me. But everyone, from family to friends who really know me, know the lover / giver I am, feel once I'm ready I won't be on the market for long.

 

That's reassuring...

 

The RIGHT woman will pay more attention to what's in your heart than what's on your head!

 

 

*****

 

I hesitate to post the following because I do sit on the other side of the fence than you, DNU, as a WS and not a BS, but here goes anyways...

 

The OM that I developed feelings for was a single man, bald, and struggling financially to care for 2 children he had full custody of. His ex-wife abandoned them all 2 years before I met him.

 

He was younger than 40 but LOOKED 40. A tough life and unrelenting stress has a way of aging people.

 

He had a dead-end job that paid just above minimum wage.

 

What attracted me to him..truly endeared me to him...was his passion for his children..his devotion...his strength and courage to face anything that life threw his way. And even though there were many people who let him down over the course of his life he was always kind and gentle, compassionate and giving to others. He knew what mattered in life, and what didn't.

 

The EA was wrong, but it doesn't negate the fact that he did have qualities a woman could find attractive.

 

I agree with your friends and family...you probably will not be on the market any longer than you want to be.

[DNU1]

Thanks Taylor. People who have known me throughout the years have always said I was a *great guy*, devoted to my wife and kiddos, would do anything to help...just all around great guy.

 

It's hard because for the longest time I thought they were just saying that. After working on things these last five months (since DDay#2) and working to become a better husband, father and person...well, I realize that I am doing things the right way. I'm talking the talk and walking the walk.

 

And it's a hard lesson to learn and get myself to believe, especially with all the media hyping style over substance...but I do know that I'm a good man deep down inside. Physical appearance has little to do with what I'm made of.

 

For now it's concentrate on being best DAD I can be. And taking my focue away from STBxWW and putting it on me and my kids.

 

Yea, you are right...the right woman will pay more attention to what's in my heart...

 

Thanks!

[DNU1]

Her power over me, the addiction to helping her, it is growing weaker and weaker every day.

 

I once worshiped the ground she walked on. Now she seems but a hollow shell of a person that I once thought I knew. She looks dejected, alone, ashamed and broken. The gleam is gone from her eyes. When the kids want to sit on my lap and watch TV I can see her sinking lower and lower into her chair. It is sad.

 

But I resist the urge to help her, to even talk to her about her pain, her sorrow. I cannot be that person for her any more. I cannot be her rock, her savior any more. I must focus on my children and myself.

 

Tonight is her first night *in charge* of the kids. I plan on going to a movie, then shooting some pictures of a local band. And don't plan on being home until late.

 

Throughout our marriage I have been the one taking care of the dog, then the kiddos. Even after she was back at work from having kids, it was I that got them up, dressed, fed, off to daycare when I was working full time. I'd pick them up, feed, baths and often times to bed even before she got home. Yes, there were times when she could be around, but the majority of time it was Dad.

 

And in last 4 years it's been more Dad and less mom. Even when she was around and not working, I felt as if I needed to be here, taking care of kids and house so she could relax after a hard day's work.

 

Not any more. When it is *her day* or *her weekend* i fully plan on being scarce. She will get to be in charge with full responsibility of the kids, dog, house, life.

 

It's as if I have been given a new found freedom! And it is good.