DDay#3...OM#4...Devestation

[taylor]

I was under the impression that the cheater did the talking to the kids about having had sex with the other guy. Unless she is a hand puppet, she dictated the manner in which they were told, the choice of words.

He was absolutely right to get the kids this info.

In my situation, much like his, the affair was ongoing. The OM was now living with my WW with the kids present. This is a man who could not be trusted and lacked character and integrity. Many in our community knew him to be a low-life.

I wanted my kids to not only understand what had led to the seperation, but I also wnated them to know that this guy was someone that did not have their best interests at heart.

We do not know if his motivation for insisting on this was revenge. This is a guy who had been cheated on multiple times in the past and he kept quiet. Many therapists advise telling the kids and feel it is healthier for them to know what happened.

 

We will have to wait for the OP to respond. But I doubt the wife was in any position to "dictate" anything. If her husband was intent on "nuclear exposure" she probably didn't have much choice in whether or not the children were told. And, as a mother myself, it's still hard to believe that a mother would choose, by her own free will, to tell her 8 year old daughter that she "kissed and had sex with another man."

 

In your case, where the OM became a part of your children's lives, I can understand the need to explain some things to the children....like, "Who is this man and what is he doing here."

 

But I think in most cases young children don't need to know more than what is absolutely necessary: mom and dad are not happy together and are divorcing. You have nothing to do with it. We will always love you and be there for you."

 

Do you honestly believe a therapist would advise a parent to tell an 8 year old that her mother had sex with another man? Do you really think the 8 year old would have a light-bulb moment at that point and say, "Oh, OK, I understand now. Thanks for sharing." What would be the point of sharing THAT MUCH INFORMATION with an 8 yo?

 

Children shouldn't be used as a dumping ground for their parents' crap.

 

If the time ever comes, when my children are grown and married, and they ask what was up with all that..I will tell them the truth..as much as they want to know. But until then, I will protect their innocent childhoods as best I can.

[Reggie]

I don't hold myself out to ba an expert, but I raised two boys on my own and am a very involved parent to my three girls.

First, the wife was clearly in a position to tailor her remarks so as to let them know there was an affair without getting graphic. His wife is a physician, presumably educated and articulate and not some brow beaten spouse. She has been calling the shots for a long time and has a huge sense of entitlement, as evidenced by her serial chaeting and repeated lying.

I do not agree that disclosing information in an age appropriate way to let the kids know what went on is dumping on them.

I can tell you that as a child, when my dad was abusing alcohol in the extreme and reeking havoc on our family, I was confused as hell until I got the information that he was an alcoholic. Then, at least , it made some sense.

These kids have lived with a serial cheater for a long time. I imagine they know something is very wrong. I've read on many sites that vague explanations like "mom and dad are not getting along, so we are divorcing" gives them the wrong impression about marital committment and that simpy "not getting along" is reason to break up the family.

I realize there is divurgence of opinion on this. It just seems wrong to me to continue this veil of secrecy thing and healthier to get it out in the open in an age approrite way.

This women bought the sex language into the conversation, not DNUI. She could have easily just said that she had a romantic relationship with another man and had broken her vows. No evidence that DNUI was twisting her arm. In fact, she is clearly quite the abuser and I suspect he was pretty depleted.

[taylor]

First, the wife was clearly in a position to tailor her remarks so as to let them know there was an affair without getting graphic.

 

I guess my bottom line is I don't think an 8 year old needs to know the divorce was due to an AFFAIR. I doubt most 8 year olds even know what an AFFAIR is.

 

If the couple was divorcing because the husband had erectile dysfunction and it was a sexless marriage, would you suggest the father sit the 8 yo down and tell him "THE TRUTH" as to WHY mom and dad were divorcing?

 

Again, I can see in your case telling a child that dad is sick with a disease called alcoholism and that dad's behavior is "wierd" because of it. You have to live day in and day out with your dad's affliction.

 

But a child affected by divorce does not need to know every detail of the marital conflict that led to the divorce. The fact that there was conflict should be sufficient information.

 

And I don't think telling a young child that mom and dad are divorcing because they are unhappy is in any way sending young children a message about marital commitment. It's a simplified way for a young child to understand why the divorce is taking place..and it's the truth...the parents ARE unhappy. Besides, ask an 8 yo what marital commitment is and you will probably get a blank stare back at you.

 

You know, my cousin was killed in a car accident a few years ago. He left a 7 year old son. The boy's mother sat him down and told him that daddy was in a car accident and died instantly with no pain. She did not go into details as to WHY the accident occurred. She did not tell her son that his father had a blood alcohol level 2 times the legal limit and was traveling at a speed of 90 mph at 3 a.m. after the bar closed.

 

Sometimes sparing a child all the details is in their best interest.

 

And in this case, I doubt talking sex with an 8 yo made a whole lot of sense to the child who barely knows what that is and what it all entails.

[taylor]

Taylor -

 

While I agree that sparing certain details are definitely in the best interest of children, I have to wonder if you have any kids if you think today's 8 year olds don't know anything about sex.

 

Didn't say they don't know anything about sex. But I don't think many 8 year olds could put the words sex, fidelity, marriage, commitment, honesty, betrayal and divorce all in one sentence and make it make sense.

 

Heck, I know 8 year olds who still think babies come from kissing and they still believe in Santa Claus.

 

But I'm from the rural midwest so maybe some of our kids here just aren't as street-wise as other places.

 

As a mother (and yes, I am one) I am kind of glad for that.

 

On that note, may I say I like your avatar pic, donnamaybe!

[Reggie]

I agree SHE went to far with the sex thing. But laying the decision to include that aspect on the BS seems off to me.

On another note, we live in the midwest, as well, but in a large Metro area. My kids know about sex, way too much for my liking and they are in that 7-11 age range.

I simply told them that the guy living with their mom was not a "new" boyfriend", as she was claiming, but the guy she was seeing at night secretely for over a year before they met him. My then 9 year old looked at me and said'you mean she was cheating on you, dad." I refuse to lie to them.

I'd have no problem if my spouse told my kids I have ED(hypothetically, at least for now) and that was the reason for a divorce. Same with telling the kids dad was loaded when he crashed. It is what it is. That is how folks learn, IMO.

[taylor]

I agree SHE went to far with the sex thing. But laying the decision to include that aspect on the BS seems off to me.

On another note, we live in the midwest, as well, but in a large Metro area. My kids know about sex, way too much for my liking and they are in that 7-11 age range.

I simply told them that the guy living with their mom was not a "new" boyfriend", as she was claiming, but the guy she was seeing at night secretely for over a year before they met him. My then 9 year old looked at me and said'you mean she was cheating on you, dad." I refuse to lie to them.

I'd have no problem if my spouse told my kids I have ED(hypothetically, at least for now) and that was the reason for a divorce. Same with telling the kids dad was loaded when he crashed. It is what it is. That is how folks learn, IMO.

 

Guess I'm just an overprotective, naive mother....

 

Where is the OP, anyways?

 

FWIW, I am on his side. I think he has put up with infidelity far too long and is being reduced to a doormat.

 

A poster suggested the non-traditional role of a stay-at-home dad, coupled with a high-earning medical doctor wife, may have played some role in this current dynamic...lack of respect..no fear..on the part of the WS. I think I agree with this to some extent.

 

Not that it should be this way. But women, for the most part, respect and admire men who are strong and independent. If she is the breadwinner and he is dependent on her income for survival, she may see him in a different light. Dunno.

[Reggie]

Seems to me that staying home and raising the kids is a sign of strength. I don't think outside factors like their arrangement plays a role. This woman cheated before the arrangement was in effect, 14 years ago. I suspect he knows the tip of the iceberg re her activities throughout the years.

Not all women like to be dependant, and a pesron inclined to cheat is going to do it regardless of factors within the marriage, IMO. We see SAHM's doing the cheating frequently.

[taylor]

Seems to me that staying home and raising the kids is a sign of strength. I don't think outside factors like their arrangement plays a role. This woman cheated before the arrangement was in effect, 14 years ago. I suspect he knows the tip of the iceberg re her activities throughout the years.

Not all women like to be dependant, and a pesron inclined to cheat is going to do it regardless of factors within the marriage, IMO. We see SAHM's doing the cheating frequently.

 

I don't think there is any job on the face of the earth that requires more strength than staying home as a caregiver to children, ailing parents, etc.

 

With that said, though, I think this OP's wife has no incentive to stop cheating. If she were dependent on him, he could threaten her with a divorce in which she could lose all of her financial security. That threat might be enough to get her to quit cheating.

 

My therapist said many a dependent SAHM's who cheat do indeed return to the marriage because of the threat of losing their financial security.

 

But in this case, that kind of threat carries no weight since she is the breadwinner...She is the one providing the financial security. He can't use it as leverage because he is the dependent one.

 

I don't believe the "dependency" factor has anything to do with the motivation to cheat. But I think it may have something to do with his inability to get her to stop cheating.

 

She obviously has the power in this relationship. And I think whoever has the power has control over the infidelity and the end of the affair.

[Reggie]

Not so, on the power. There is alimony to consider and custody. He has a leg up in those areas. Also, her reputation may be damaged.

But, that said, duress, coercion, or fear would not be attractive tools to me to either stop cheating or force someone to remain in a marriage. Most of us did not sign up to be prison guards, babysitters, or extortionists when we got married. There is no value in having a spouse that only refrains from this type of abuse out of fear. They are resentful, ungiving, and one would be so lonely in such a relationship.

And, it is a big blow, a further blow, to a BS's self esteem to know that their spouse really does not want to be there.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

uh....well.....she is a *gulp*....cheater afterall:o

 

 

 

 

She has sex with another man, and its a "3"?...uh....ok. She continuously lies to him, and its a "3"?

 

 

 

 

he can, and may, share the blame in anything wrong in the marriage. he is NOT to blame for her decision to screw another man, and continue to lie about it.

 

I get it Dexter and certainly do in all your posts that all cheating is a 10. I am not going through every post, but I think you consider it a 10, if you look lustfully at another human being. I however think differently.

 

I certainly do not want to tell people how they should think, but there is a lot of this story we do not know. The spouse has every right to ask for a divorce if she has crossed that line. I however found his reactions and comments confusing and troubling.

[Dexter Morgan]

Taylor -

 

While I agree that sparing certain details are definitely in the best interest of children, I have to wonder if you have any kids if you think today's 8 year olds don't know anything about sex.

 

My 8 year old doesn't know about it...has no idea. Why should he? he doesn't need to know at that age and the only way he would know is if I was a lousy father and let him watch R rated movies or told him about sex.

 

At this age, he would not understand it if I told him.

[taylor]

Not so, on the power. There is alimony to consider and custody. He has a leg up in those areas. Also, her reputation may be damaged.

But, that said, duress, coercion, or fear would not be attractive tools to me to either stop cheating or force someone to remain in a marriage. Most of us did not sign up to be prison guards, babysitters, or extortionists when we got married. There is no value in having a spouse that only refrains from this type of abuse out of fear. They are resentful, ungiving, and one would be so lonely in such a relationship.

And, it is a big blow, a further blow, to a BS's self esteem to know that their spouse really does not want to be there.

 

Reggie,

 

Have you read Five&Dime's thread about a wife that won't stop contact with her OM.

 

Many posters there are advocating kicking her out and cutting her off financially to get her to "wake-up" and end the affair.

 

Interesting reading.

 

I posted that I would not return to my marriage just for the financial security and I couldn't understand why a BS would want a spouse to return under this condition.

 

Apparently many do, tho. I felt like I was in the minority.

[Dexter Morgan]

I get it Dexter and certainly do in all your posts that all cheating is a 10.

 

actually, its an 11 in my book:cool:

 

 

I am not going through every post, but I think you consider it a 10, if you look lustfully at another human being. I however think differently.

 

nope, you just pulled that notion out of thin air.

 

 

I certainly do not want to tell people how they should think, but there is a lot of this story we do not know.

 

When did I say anything about the severity of her "thinking"? We are talking about cheating...and act....and act she committed.

[White Flower]

I could have stayed married for financial security as well. Nothing could have made me stay.

[taylor]

Reggie,

 

Do you really think the OP has a leg up in terms of custody? How so?

 

I haven't seen one bit of evidence to suggest she is an unfit mother. And she is still in the house..so she hasn't abandoned them. And obviously she is perfectly capable of supporting them on her own if need be.

 

Perhaps joint custody?

[Dexter Morgan]

Reggie,

 

Do you really think the OP has a leg up in terms of custody? How so?

 

I haven't seen one bit of evidence to suggest she is an unfit mother.

 

You are correct. OP won't be the custodial parent if the mother wants it...why? because the OP has a penis. Simple as that.

 

As crappy as it is, a mother is not deemed unfit even if she is a scheming, cheating, liar. He could have kicked open the door to the bedroom, took a snapshot of her and her affair partner screwing in his bed....and she'd still get custody without any trouble.

 

 

And she is still in the house..so she hasn't abandoned them. And obviously she is perfectly capable of supporting them on her own if need be.

 

I'd let her have the house and make her pay me 1/2 the equity in it if I were him. And force her to refinance to get his name off of it. That way he can be out from under the house in a lousy market, get 1/2 his equity, and move on.

 

 

Perhaps joint custody?

 

Only if the mother will allow it....otherwise, she calls the shots where custody is concerned unless she is a drug addict, or physically abuses the kids.

[Reggie]

Reggie,

 

Do you really think the OP has a leg up in terms of custody? How so?

 

I haven't seen one bit of evidence to suggest she is an unfit mother. And she is still in the house..so she hasn't abandoned them. And obviously she is perfectly capable of supporting them on her own if need be.

 

Perhaps joint custody?[/QUOT

 

Primary caregive usually gets physical custody.

 

He is a SAHD. I know it varies from state to state. But, most dads who work get shafted in this area. It's supposed to be gender neutral, so....

[Reggie]

You are correct. OP won't be the custodial parent if the mother wants it...why? because the OP has a penis. Simple as that.

 

As crappy as it is, a mother is not deemed unfit even if she is a scheming, cheating, liar. He could have kicked open the door to the bedroom, took a snapshot of her and her affair partner screwing in his bed....and she'd still get custody without any trouble.

 

 

 

 

I'd let her have the house and make her pay me 1/2 the equity in it if I were him. And force her to refinance to get his name off of it. That way he can be out from under the house in a lousy market, get 1/2 his equity, and move on.

 

 

 

 

Only if the mother will allow it....otherwise, she calls the shots where custody is concerned unless she is a drug addict, or physically abuses the kids.

 

Dex, gender is usually not controlling, unless things are oughly equal in the caregiving area. He's been at home all these years while she has worked. He has a very good shot, at least here, where I live.

[taylor]

I agree, Dexter, our judicial system is pretty biased when it comes to childcare and I don't see that changing much in the near future.

 

It's an unfortunate reality that BH's get shafted twice, first by the betrayal and then by the loss of their children in their daily life if divorce follows the infidelity. It's also sad that men stay in bad marriages because they don't want to lose their children. They truly are caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

In this OP's case, I could easily see the wife agreeing to joint custody mainly because she is a doctor with a busy, and perhaps, erratic work schedule. The OP provides stability for the children.

 

He even said she loves the arrangement where he is caring for the children. Why forego such an arrangement if it works for both.

 

She would be crazy to seek full custody and then do what with the children...put them in daycare as opposed to allowing them to be cared for by their father?

 

I have a friend who has half-custody of his daughter. It's very equitable for both parents who work. Their daughter spends one week with mom, then one with dad, etc. They live near each other so there isn't much travel. He truly looks forward to his time with his daughter and enjoys reading to her and tucking her in at night.

[taylor]

We really don't know what kind of parent she is.

 

She is a doctor. She works. Doesn't mean she is a bad parent..or a lazy arse hands off parent. He may be the primary caregiver, but it doesn't mean she neglected or ignored the kids, like any other working parent.

[taylor]

This is true, donnamaybe, but the legal system doesn't care about that when deciding on custody, do they? I'm not well-versed in legal matters such as this...

[Darth Vader]

OP seemed to hell-bent on nuclear exposure to be too concerned about putting anything "delicately" but hopefully he did for his kid's sakes. Spent a few minutes figuring out how you would delicately tell children "I had sex with another man". Got nothin'.

 

Some things are impossible to lighten. How is it that you can find fault with the husband in all of this? He's not the one who cheated. However, he and his children are the ones who will pay for her actions, she got all the sex and orgasms, but, they pay for it! As far as him being hell bent, yes, he should be, there should be all kinds of consequences for her actions, like exposure, so the family can see who and what she really is.

 

 

Yes, I am curious as well.

 

When I learned of my father's affair at age 12, words like "infidelity", "faithfulness", "morality" and all the ramifications that those words imply, did not cross my mind whatsoever. I did not think one bad thing about my dad. The ONLY thing I felt was SAD...SAD that I wouldn't be able to see my dad every night when he came home from work..SAD that he wouldn't be kissing me goodnight every night...SAD that both of my parents were SO SAD.

 

As a child I was only concerned about how the break up of the family was going to affect me. I did not sit in judgement of either one of my parents. It was not my place. I was only a child and I loved both of my parents and wanted both of them in my life. I didn't want anything to change.

 

I really feel for you. Now that you know what everything is or means, How do you feel about it? Betrayal? Cheated out of a normal home life? Angry? Don't misconstrue my questions as an attack, because that's not what it is.

 

For a short time I tutored teens at a juvenile detention facility. I recall one young man who was "serving time" for assault on another teen...a teen who bullied him and teased him about his mother being a prostitute. This led to the assault.

 

The incarcerated boy told me, "Yeah, my mom's a whore but no one has a right to say anything bad about her to my face like that." I asked if he loved his mom. He said, "Til the day I die."

 

IMO, A child's love for a parent often overrides any knee-jerk reaction to judge, no matter how bad the transgression is.

 

********

 

I never said anywhere that her children wouldn't still love her, oh, they'll love her and still have hate somewhere for her because of what she did to them and their father.

 

And don't give me the Judging lecture Bullcrap! It doesn't work with me! People only say that to cover their own ass so they don't have to take any responsibility for their actions! Nice try!

 

Why do you assume the OP's wife was nasty to the children? The marriage may not have been good, but why assume she took it out on the children? She may have wronged her husband with the infidelity. It doesn't mean she became an unfit mother.

 

 

This is an often occurance, usually, not always, there is a level of hostility (nastyness) towards the family member/s being betrayed. There are many accounts of it occurring, however, much of the time it isn't even considered because somewhere, somehow, it all gets swept under the rug, overlooked, dismissed or whatever! But, that is also abuse, whether people like to admit it or not!

 

Oh, and she not only wronged her husband, but, she also wronged her children as well, that's often overlooked as well. Don't believe me, well, the children get to be shuttled from house to house for how many years now for something they had no control over? Of course, that is the end result as well.........

[DNU1]

I read the Infidelity threads and am amazed at the hatred and nastiness within the posts and the hurt of cheated upon spouses.

 

This post is all too common and the posters lining up to demonize the wife is all too typical.

 

In terms of Infidelity this situation is a 3 (on a 1-10 scale). The Husband while hurt is just so mean spirited and nasty and takes no blame for anything that transpired. Maybe he bears no blame, but his posts just strike me as odd. He had his doubts, if so hire a PI and get every salacious detail. The fact he does not want seem to want to work to save the marriage is telling. The non-traditional roles, played a huge part in the situation and I am sure bubbled under the surface and never was addressed imo.

 

In the end how you tell the children is your own decision and I too see no reason why you need to share blame when one is responsible. I admit I could not be so polite if I separated or divorced in what the children would know.

 

 

Okay, i was reading through the replies and could not get past this one. I believe you have assumed way to much about my situation. please let me go back and explain...

 

Wifes first two affairs were in medical school. First started in summer of 1995. She blew up at me in August saying I wasn't doing much in the marriage. I hunkered down and worked my tail off...always having a bad gut feeling. kept asking about another man, but she denied. The affair raged on.

 

Affair with OM#1 died out in winter of 1996...and wife had ONS at mardi gras with another man. Then went back month later to his town to shack again. I was clueless. We started counseling in Feb. In may she came clean on both affairs. I was heartbroken and booted her from house for two weeks. Counseled, talked to family, friends, exposed to OMs wife. Decided to work on marriage. It was hard but turned out great.

 

Fast forward to August 2008. Family took trip to another state where hunting buddy of mine showed us around town. Wife struck up friendship with him that turned in to repeated phone calls and texts. I realize now that I was not meeting her core needs at the time and the EA started. It became a PA in Oct 2008. but it was short lived as the OM#3 was still calling and texting his real GF while he was shacking with my WW.

 

When wife came back from shacking she blew up at me for not being a good dad/husband/stay-at-home. This was Nov. I hunkered down and worked my tail off. OM#3 dumped her and our relationship got better.

 

Dec 26th I found her e-mail open and read some innocent mails...and got suspecious. Read more and DDay#3! I looked deep inside my heart and realized that OM#3 was 1000s of miles away and my wife was re-committing to our marriage. So I doubled my efforts to be a better dad / husband / person. All along I asked if there was another man, EVER? In past, present, just tell me. She always looked me in the eye and said "NO!"

 

So, with a three time cheating wife I demanded transperence with our lives. She gave me her e-mail accounts and made her phone accesssible to me. but I could not see her phone details...company account, so I couldn't see the records. So i installed software on her phone to track calls and texts. I continue to ask her about other men in her life, either now or in the past. She continues to deny. And i specificall ask about Dr. X. Again, nothing...

 

Fast forward to last monday. I see a suspecious e-mail. I confront and quickly realize it's nothing...but I again ask about Dr. X. I'm holding her, she looks deep into my eyes and says, "no, nothing going on with him."

 

Wednesday morning I see texts he and her going back and forth. Him, "I wanted to plant one on you in the elevator today." Her, "Nice."

 

Him, "A good nice or sarcastic niiice." Her, "a fine nice...i figured you for grabing my chest!"

 

Him, "No just lips to start, I will wait until you show off"

 

You get the picture.

 

When I confront she denies repeatedly. I threaten poly graph and she still denies. After a while she says "I kissed him once." I keep hammering the poly. She finall admits after 20 minutes that they slept together once 2 years ago. Liar.

 

Mean spirited and nasty? I worked my tail off for FIVE months on this marriage. I've been through FOUR DDays.

 

And for the record, I did NOT tell my wife to tell the kids she had sex with another man. Those were her words. I said they need to be told the truth, that's all.

 

I'm going to keep reading posts and may have more to add. Sorry for the lenght, but I felt I needed to give you all the complete story.

[mark982]

while i do realise you lover her.but for the love of god "why are you staying"? she's never going to be faithful, she knows no matter what you'll take her back,christ you've caught her w/ 3 different men ( that you know of). just how much more disrespect are you going to put up with?

[DNU1]

As far as nuclear exposure, I have exposed to my immediate family and two very close friends. I visited my wife's parents and gave them the whole story...my STBxWW only told them she had been unfaithful and that that I wanted a divorce. She was very ashamed and upset and did not tell them there were OMs #3 & #4.

 

Her father looked me in the eye and said, "I don't blame you one bit for divorcing your wife."

 

I will not expose to the OMs wife at this point. My STBxWW's job may be in jeapordy. I do not want that for the kiddos. It it were just me I could care less...but I will not put my children in financial jeapordy.

 

They are #1 priority for me right now.

 

Please understand that I feel I played a part in all of these affairs. I failed to meet my wife's needs. But I will not take responsibility for my wife being unfaithful to me. She made the decision to engage in these relationships, and she made the decision to have EAs and PAs with men outside the marriage.