I want a first meeting . Insecurity and jealousy are rising

[LoveNoob]

Dont worry, ill let you people know how it will end so you can rub it in if you are all right.

[Rollercoasterr]

We're not going to rub it in. But don't say we didn't tell you so if you choose to not heed the massive amounts of warnings you've been given from an outside perspective.

[LoveNoob]

We're not going to rub it in. But don't say we didn't tell you so if you choose to not heed the massive amounts of warnings you've been given from an outside perspective.

 

Ok, as i said before, thanks for the warnings, i do appreciate them.

[hoping2heal]

Dont worry, ill let you people know how it will end so you can rub it in if you are all right.

 

 

LN - nobody is looking to rub anything in. People are just trying to look out for you because they don't want you continuing to walk down a road that leads to nothing good. You've already invested 10 months into this, and investing another 2 or 3 or 6 isn't going to get you what you want either. It's difficult and it's hard to accept but if it's any consolation I'm not so sure that a lot of the things you know about her/fell in love with even exist or are true, so it isn't like you lost some big love. People are just trying to help you, that's all.

[LoveNoob]

LN - nobody is looking to rub anything in. People are just trying to look out for you because they don't want you continuing to walk down a road that leads to nothing good. You've already invested 10 months into this, and investing another 2 or 3 or 6 isn't going to get you what you want either. It's difficult and it's hard to accept but if it's any consolation I'm not so sure that a lot of the things you know about her/fell in love with even exist or are true, so it isn't like you lost some big love. People are just trying to help you, that's all.

 

Thank you, i appreciate that as i said.

[LoveNoob]

Hello folks, once again, i know i seem very defensive and stubborn about all the skeptisism, i do value your opinions and take the responsibility for any hurt i might find myself in in the future.

 

One of the reasons i keep slamming my head against the wall is that after getting burned by a girl back when i was 17 i withdrew myself for 4-5 years. Something i really regret and i feel i missed alot. Since i got back to the 'finding a girlfriend' scene i have been burned and decieved a half a dozen times.

But i refuse to let go and later find out she was telling the truth all along and i threw away the chance of being with the girl of my dreams. It will be easier for me to live with holding on and finding out i have been decieved again. (I can then only blame myself for being gullible and blame her for decieving me , insted of blaming myself for letting go and not trying. Which is something that would haunt me for years to come.)

 

Today i talked to her about me feeling paranoid about her. And she understood it must be torture for me to only have a few pictures of her. I told her "There has to be SOME way for us to bypass or supress your fear so we can meet." to which she replied: "I certainly hope so. If not, ill just have to get over it and cope." (context: she means meeting me dispite her phobia and cope with the panic attack that will likely follow.)

 

We also talked about that male classmate thats one of the 5 thats coming to Paris aswell. She admitted she was attracted to him but she shot his advances down, telling him that she's reserved only for me, and since then he has kept a distance from her. She promised i had nothing to worry about and that she'd stick with me and our relationships even if she happens to fall in love with someone else. And i have seen her punish herself hard for breaking a promise. She knows that if she breaks this one she will be the one hurting the most. Ofcourse, all of this relies on (blind?) faith and trust in her honesty.

 

More importantly i have an idea for a plan to break out of this stalemate should she not be able / willing to do so on her own accord. I would like all of your insight on this:

In two weeks time she is moving to Paris for a year to work for a french firm and do a report for her uni. I was thinking about telling her later this week that if she has been unable to meet me by august i will tell her i am coming to Paris the following day and ill wait for her under the Eiffel tower. She will then be able to decide whether to meet me or not, ill only be about 15 minutes away from where she lives and works. I will also tell her that if she wants to booze up for 'dutch courage', take medication to give herself a temporary lobotimisation, or have a french SWAT team strip search me thats all cool and fine with me.....except body cavity searches..

 

I think with this idea she will be in control, the meeting will be public, she will only have to be brave for a short time yet she will not be able to 'stall' for months more. Ofcourse its very possible she will not show up, but i think its worth the attempt. It puts a bit more pressure on her but hopefully not too much.

 

What say you ?

[Rollercoasterr]

I say that if you have to get a girl blitzed out of her head to meet you then it's not worth it at all.

 

I also think that if you go and wait for her under the Eiffel Tower she's not going to show up. She doesn't want to meet you. If she did, she would have done so already.

 

I'm so sorry, but you're just not getting it. You refuse to understand and see all these red flags. I've been there before too, so I understand. But you're going to get hurt. This girl is lying to you. If you left her now, you'd never find out that she's telling the truth, because she's not.

 

But I wish you luck anyway. My heart hurts for you.

[Bearandsue]

I pretty sure a lot of people here have been hurt in relationships before. I was in a relationship that I got hurt over and over again. He cheated multiple times but I still stuck it out. I was young and dumb. But I finally got the courage and ended it. I didn't know how to cope as this was my "first love". It took me years to put myself back out there. I was hurt a couple of times after that.

 

I completely shut men out and became quite a loner. But I found the love of my life when I finally decided to put myself out there fully again.

 

I guess what I am trying to say being rejected or hurt is a big part of dating. You learn from your mistakes and you take that experience with you when you decide to get back on the proverbial dating horse. There is someone out there for everyone and that includes you.

 

Do not stay in this situation just because you are afraid of getting hurt. I am not being skeptical. This is my honest opinion and I can look at your situation with an objective point of view. I truly believe this girl is not being honest with you. Let this one go. You could be using this time to find someone that is right for you.

 

 

If you still insist on continuing with this relationship. Why not tell her you need some time and take a couple of days and really look at your situation. Think about all that everybody here has said to you and take some time and reflect. Maybe that will help. Or why not talk to a friend or family member you trust. I am positive they will have the same reaction as everybody else here.

 

 

I truly wish you the best.

[KikiW]

I can tell you feel very strongly that you've "vetted" her, so to speak. Despite her fears and insecurities, you have gotten the necessary proof to give you the impression that she is more likely on the level than not on the level. You've spoken with other people who know her, and they've given you enough backup to her stories.

 

Ok. Then there is nothing to do but push forward with this, because anything else will leave you wondering if you messed up something that could have been great.

 

I have some advice, however...

 

Please make sure that you do not give her any money higher than the cost of a dinner out. Do not buy her travel tickets, or pay for a hotel for her or anything like that.

 

Please DO give yourself a time limit on this. If you two have not met by the end of summer, say, then put an end to it. Or if you have traveled to her area twice and she has still not mustered up the courage to meet you, put an end to it. It would be incredibly unfair to expect you to keep trying when she just isn't strong enough.

 

And please keep your eyes peeled. Keep an eye out for red flags. As they say, "Trust, but verify."

 

And yes, I think telling her you will be under the Eiffel Tower is a great idea. If she can bring a friend and at least get a look at you from a distance, maybe she can get the courage to say hello.

 

The only thing I can say is that I hope she is on the level, for your sake, but I also hope she gets control of whatever problems she has, because it is INCREDIBLY unfair to string you along through all this if she just has too many problems to deal with a relationship in a normal fashion.

 

Please let us know how things go. And none of us are here trying to dogpile you, rain on your parade, or wish the relationship to fail. Many of us speak from experience, and we simply want you to be well prepared. Good luck

[northstar1]

Hello folks, once again, i know i seem very defensive and stubborn about all the skeptisism, i do value your opinions and take the responsibility for any hurt i might find myself in in the future.

 

One of the reasons i keep slamming my head against the wall is that after getting burned by a girl back when i was 17 i withdrew myself for 4-5 years. Something i really regret and i feel i missed alot. Since i got back to the 'finding a girlfriend' scene i have been burned and decieved a half a dozen times.

But i refuse to let go and later find out she was telling the truth all along and i threw away the chance of being with the girl of my dreams. It will be easier for me to live with holding on and finding out i have been decieved again. (I can then only blame myself for being gullible and blame her for decieving me , insted of blaming myself for letting go and not trying. Which is something that would haunt me for years to come.)

 

Today i talked to her about me feeling paranoid about her. And she understood it must be torture for me to only have a few pictures of her. I told her "There has to be SOME way for us to bypass or supress your fear so we can meet." to which she replied: "I certainly hope so. If not, ill just have to get over it and cope." (context: she means meeting me dispite her phobia and cope with the panic attack that will likely follow.)

 

We also talked about that male classmate thats one of the 5 thats coming to Paris aswell. She admitted she was attracted to him but she shot his advances down, telling him that she's reserved only for me, and since then he has kept a distance from her. She promised i had nothing to worry about and that she'd stick with me and our relationships even if she happens to fall in love with someone else. And i have seen her punish herself hard for breaking a promise. She knows that if she breaks this one she will be the one hurting the most. Ofcourse, all of this relies on (blind?) faith and trust in her honesty.

 

More importantly i have an idea for a plan to break out of this stalemate should she not be able / willing to do so on her own accord. I would like all of your insight on this:

In two weeks time she is moving to Paris for a year to work for a french firm and do a report for her uni. I was thinking about telling her later this week that if she has been unable to meet me by august i will tell her i am coming to Paris the following day and ill wait for her under the Eiffel tower. She will then be able to decide whether to meet me or not, ill only be about 15 minutes away from where she lives and works. I will also tell her that if she wants to booze up for 'dutch courage', take medication to give herself a temporary lobotimisation, or have a french SWAT team strip search me thats all cool and fine with me.....except body cavity searches..

 

I think with this idea she will be in control, the meeting will be public, she will only have to be brave for a short time yet she will not be able to 'stall' for months more. Ofcourse its very possible she will not show up, but i think its worth the attempt. It puts a bit more pressure on her but hopefully not too much.

 

What say you ?

 

Noob, do you not see the problem with what she has told you (bolded part)?

If she falls in love with someone else, she's going to remain committed to you, who she hasn't even met yet?

I know you want to believe in this girl, but if she falls in love with some other guy, there will be no relationship

[LoveNoob]

I can tell you feel very strongly that you've "vetted" her, so to speak. Despite her fears and insecurities, you have gotten the necessary proof to give you the impression that she is more likely on the level than not on the level. You've spoken with other people who know her, and they've given you enough backup to her stories.

 

Ok. Then there is nothing to do but push forward with this, because anything else will leave you wondering if you messed up something that could have been great.

 

I have some advice, however...

 

Please make sure that you do not give her any money higher than the cost of a dinner out. Do not buy her travel tickets, or pay for a hotel for her or anything like that.

 

Please DO give yourself a time limit on this. If you two have not met by the end of summer, say, then put an end to it. Or if you have traveled to her area twice and she has still not mustered up the courage to meet you, put an end to it. It would be incredibly unfair to expect you to keep trying when she just isn't strong enough.

 

And please keep your eyes peeled. Keep an eye out for red flags. As they say, "Trust, but verify."

 

And yes, I think telling her you will be under the Eiffel Tower is a great idea. If she can bring a friend and at least get a look at you from a distance, maybe she can get the courage to say hello.

 

The only thing I can say is that I hope she is on the level, for your sake, but I also hope she gets control of whatever problems she has, because it is INCREDIBLY unfair to string you along through all this if she just has too many problems to deal with a relationship in a normal fashion.

 

Please let us know how things go. And none of us are here trying to dogpile you, rain on your parade, or wish the relationship to fail. Many of us speak from experience, and we simply want you to be well prepared. Good luck

 

Thanks, ill likely need it.

 

And im not going to give her money or shower her with presents or anything like that. Im just paying for a train ticket to paris and back, perhaps a hotel room for 1 night if needed.

[hoping2heal]

Thanks, ill likely need it.

 

And im not going to give her money or shower her with presents or anything like that. Im just paying for a train ticket to paris and back, perhaps a hotel room for 1 night if needed.

 

I'm hoping by all means you WILL set some ground rules and be firm on them, so that way you will have no choice but to acknowledge what is going on here. I understand you don't want the regret of not trusting someone but I think you are only using that as a shield of defense to allow yourself to stay in denial. I can even understand why, who in the hell wants to invest their heart into something to find out it isn't real? That's really difficult. However, I refuse to speak to you as if this girl is ever really going to show up and it's all one big misunderstanding. It's not. You are being lied too and you are being strung along; the motive? I won't claim to know it- I know I trully was emotionally attatched to the men I did this too but that said; a lot of what they knew about me was false and furthermore me caring or not caring; they never met, never had a real relationship with me, never went anywhere. The same is happening to you.

 

 

 

I don't believe for a minute you're being leveled with fairly or honestly, and if you're honest with yourself you can't believe that either. There's not just one discrepency, there's several. Understood that when your in the middle of a merry-go-round it's difficult to guage how fast it's spinning. I understand because of you're emotions involved and your desperate need for this not to all be a lie with this girl, that you're that person in the center.

 

That said, you're still responsible for your actions. If it turns out you are being taken for a ride, please understand that from this day forward it is no longer this girls fault, but your own. If you have a pattern of being decieved and betrayed often, don't you wonder why that is? Don't you think maybe something is going on? Like perhaps you are too neive with people? Anyway I don't know, I'm not trying to be cold I actually feel very sympathetic towards you because you're walking into a moving train and don't even recognize it.

[Island Girl]

She promised i had nothing to worry about and that she'd stick with me and our relationships even if she happens to fall in love with someone else.

 

LN - A person doesn't "happen to fall in love with someone else" when they are in a truly committed relationship with another.

 

This is classic double talk.

 

A person who cares for you - truly loves you - would reassure you in ways such as "I love you and only you" or "I could never find someone like you", etc.

NOT "Oh I may fall in love with someone else but I'd still stick with you".

And I am sorry to say this but I am so shocked and surprised at your acceptance and lack of reaction to this statement.

You should have responded with "So you'd stay with me but you'd love another?!! WTF?!! Trust me I am not desperate, and I do NOT need to stay with someone just to have someone. If you were in love with another then by all means go. I deserve someone who gives me love as well as receives it!!""

 

C'est La Vie.

 

 

And i have seen her punish herself hard for breaking a promise.

 

Not to argue semantics here but you haven't seen here DO anything. You haven't seen her verbalize a sentence. You haven't seen her smile or show any emotion. You haven't seen her reaction to things you tell her, etc. - Nada.

 

If you are talking about "hearing" her be upset with herself, let me tell you as a former "Man Eater" You can call me right now and I can convince you my feelings about anything at the drop of a hat.

Many times in my younger years I strung guys along with absolutely false emotion.

And it is much easier done by phone or typing than in person let me tell ya.

Thankfully I grew up and fixed my issues so I didn't damage any more guys out there.

 

Only after THAT did I find genuine love and fulfillment in a relationship.

I think your girl has a ways to go on this - and no - the issues I am speaking of have nothing to do with fear of meeting you or anyone else.

 

 

She knows that if she breaks this one she will be the one hurting the most. Ofcourse, all of this relies on (blind?) faith and trust in her honesty.

 

I was proposed to 14 times.

All of those guys thought I'd say "yes" and we'd live happily ever after. Why? Because I gave them every indication that I was "bought in" just as much - if not more - than they were.

 

 

You never answered the question:

 

Have you talked to the brother or father online or by phone?

 

What back up do you in fact have of these events in her life?

 

 

And as an aside, maybe it's just me but my husband NEVER hears about other men hitting on me, etc. Sometimes he does ask - rarely - and I do not lie but it is downplayed COMPLETELY.

Why on Earth would I want to increase ANY negative emotions that he may have - insecurity, jealousy, etc. when he CAN NOT be here through no fault of his own.

I adore that man and I want him to feel joyous and secure as much as he possibly can while separated by 5600 miles.

 

The fact that she continually has detailed other men approaching her, etc. --- and I do not know HOW you got into this habit but I surmise it was her doing either by what she detailed to you when you first asked OR her mentioning it to you like it somehow proved her devotion to you (BTW I used that trick A LOT - I'd say it was my favorite since it made guys off balance and had them stir crazy really easily) --- but me thinks this is an attention getting tactic and used to get you (and keep you) insecure and chasing.

 

 

If I were you I would get some real validation of her past.

 

Then I would push for a web cam "meeting".

I have been in therapy and it is VERY common with phobias to set a smaller goal and then work toward achieving it by a preset deadline.

 

Certainly it is a much less "threatening" goal than meeting face to face and -- if she is in therapy -- then her therapist can help her with some intensive work.

 

And you won't have to shell out a bunch of money to see improvement and get some sort of validation more quickly.

 

But like I said you should be doing some pretty heavy fact checking as it is.

 

And please answer the question I asked. Others asked too.

I apologize in advance if you answered and I missed it.

[northstar1]

LN - A person doesn't "happen to fall in love with someone else" when they are in a truly committed relationship with another.

 

This is classic double talk.

 

A person who cares for you - truly loves you - would reassure you in ways such as "I love you and only you" or "I could never find someone like you", etc.

NOT "Oh I may fall in love with someone else but I'd still stick with you".

And I am sorry to say this but I am so shocked and surprised at your acceptance and lack of reaction to this statement.

You should have responded with "So you'd stay with me but you'd love another?!! WTF?!! Trust me I am not desperate, and I do NOT need to stay with someone just to have someone. If you were in love with another then by all means go. I deserve someone who gives me love as well as receives it!!""

 

C'est La Vie.

 

 

 

 

Not to argue semantics here but you haven't seen here DO anything. You haven't seen her verbalize a sentence. You haven't seen her smile or show any emotion. You haven't seen her reaction to things you tell her, etc. - Nada.

 

If you are talking about "hearing" her be upset with herself, let me tell you as a former "Man Eater" You can call me right now and I can convince you my feelings about anything at the drop of a hat.

Many times in my younger years I strung guys along with absolutely false emotion.

And it is much easier done by phone or typing than in person let me tell ya.

Thankfully I grew up and fixed my issues so I didn't damage any more guys out there.

 

Only after THAT did I find genuine love and fulfillment in a relationship.

I think your girl has a ways to go on this - and no - the issues I am speaking of have nothing to do with fear of meeting you or anyone else.

 

 

 

 

I was proposed to 14 times.

All of those guys thought I'd say "yes" and we'd live happily ever after. Why? Because I gave them every indication that I was "bought in" just as much - if not more - than they were.

 

 

You never answered the question:

 

Have you talked to the brother or father online or by phone?

 

What back up do you in fact have of these events in her life?

 

 

And as an aside, maybe it's just me but my husband NEVER hears about other men hitting on me, etc. Sometimes he does ask - rarely - and I do not lie but it is downplayed COMPLETELY.

Why on Earth would I want to increase ANY negative emotions that he may have - insecurity, jealousy, etc. when he CAN NOT be here through no fault of his own.

I adore that man and I want him to feel joyous and secure as much as he possibly can while separated by 5600 miles.

 

The fact that she continually has detailed other men approaching her, etc. --- and I do not know HOW you got into this habit but I surmise it was her doing either by what she detailed to you when you first asked OR her mentioning it to you like it somehow proved her devotion to you (BTW I used that trick A LOT - I'd say it was my favorite since it made guys off balance and had them stir crazy really easily) --- but me thinks this is an attention getting tactic and used to get you (and keep you) insecure and chasing.

 

 

If I were you I would get some real validation of her past.

 

Then I would push for a web cam "meeting".

I have been in therapy and it is VERY common with phobias to set a smaller goal and then work toward achieving it by a preset deadline.

 

Certainly it is a much less "threatening" goal than meeting face to face and -- if she is in therapy -- then her therapist can help her with some intensive work.

 

And you won't have to shell out a bunch of money to see improvement and get some sort of validation more quickly.

 

But like I said you should be doing some pretty heavy fact checking as it is.

 

And please answer the question I asked. Others asked too.

I apologize in advance if you answered and I missed it.

 

All very good points Island -

 

I think we all need to remember, this girl is also only 19.

[LoveNoob]

 

You never answered the question:

 

Have you talked to the brother or father online or by phone?

 

What back up do you in fact have of these events in her life?

 

 

Gee, sorry i missed the question with all the walls of text.

 

I have talked to her brother, father and friends online. I saw her best female friend on webcam.

[Rollercoasterr]

hmmm...yeah you talked to them online. Too bad you were actually talking to her instead of them. Whitepage the phone number if you dont have it, call at a time that you know she's not home and see if they REALLY know about you.

 

A poster here had that same exact problem a little over a month ago. He was told they knew about him, wanted them to be together, yadda yadda, and then one day he calls and BAM! The mother has no idea the girl even has a boyfriend.

 

I'm telling you...call when she's not home. You'll find out the ugly truth. And if you don't do it, then you know deep down she's lying through her teeth and you just don't care. Glutton for punishment.

 

And quit being so defensive. Island Girl makes VALID points every time that you refuse to see and all you can come back with was how she has "walls of text". Come on, kid. We're trying to help and you're being niave and stubborn.

[LoveNoob]

hmmm...yeah you talked to them online. Too bad you were actually talking to her instead of them. Whitepage the phone number if you dont have it, call at a time that you know she's not home and see if they REALLY know about you.

 

A poster here had that same exact problem a little over a month ago. He was told they knew about him, wanted them to be together, yadda yadda, and then one day he calls and BAM! The mother has no idea the girl even has a boyfriend.

 

I'm telling you...call when she's not home. You'll find out the ugly truth. And if you don't do it, then you know deep down she's lying through her teeth and you just don't care. Glutton for punishment.

 

And quit being so defensive. Island Girl makes VALID points every time that you refuse to see and all you can come back with was how she has "walls of text". Come on, kid. We're trying to help and you're being niave and stubborn.

 

*sighs* The wall of text thing was a joke. And im not refusing to see the valid points, i do see them and understand/agree that things smell very fishy.

 

Im going to tell her to prove she is who she claims to be and that i want to meet her at the 30th of may in Paris and if she refuses it means she doesnt want me (enough).

 

Thank you for the help and advice. But please dont call me kid.

 

Bye bye Loveshackers.

[Bearandsue]

Pshhh! *throws hands in the air and sighs* I give up!

[Rollercoasterr]

And since you're refusing to call her house and find out the truth you know yourself that she's lying.

 

So I'm with Bearandsue. I give up. It's not worth my time to talk to someone who doesn't listen.

 

Enjoy your trip to Paris alone. Cause you know she wont be there.

 

See ya, kid.

[sunflower89]

I'm going to have to throw something in here. I don't think that she is being honest with you - and you are being naive about this.

 

First, if she had a horrible experience and needs counselling for it, why would she still be talking to people online for? Engaging in a relationship where she would eventually meet someone IRL? Needs meds to meet the man she is supposedly in love with. Yah. OK.

 

It's been 10 months and she has only sent photos of herself while tipsy/drunk out of "fear"? You are both "in love " but she can`t even show her face to you. You dont even know if those pictures are the real her.

 

If it doesn`t make sense, it isn`t true.

 

How old are you - do you have any relationship experience.

 

I have to agree, I'm afraid. I went through a stage of lying on internet forums and even to my now boyfriend about what I looked like/who I was for about a month before coming clean (thankfully, he forgave me).

 

Coming from someone who has lied in the past over the internet, I'd call bull****. I did the same things, saying I was too scared to meet because of blahblahblah excuses and would send photos that werent me when I was pushed to. I wouldnt get a webcam or talk either in fear of being found out.

[Rollercoasterr]

Oh I'm so glad you came forward with that. If he ever comes back, maybe that'll help him. I sure hope it will.

[bunnybunny]

It's may 30th. The day he said he would go to Paris. I wonder if he really went...

[Joyvke]

Actually just found out, this is an msn friend of mine. I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing all the red flags.. (recognised the "I finished uni" "she's 19 and I'm 25" NL/ UK and the phobia, so asked him about it ;p).

 

He is going to go there tomorrow, I gave him my number so he can text/ call in case she isn't going to be there. Which I highly doubt she is going to be. I really don't trust this all one bit and the "convo's with dad/ best friend/ other friends/ brother" etc at all.

 

Also he said to himself if she's not going to get herself a cam a week after he's done with it. I really hope he will.

[KikiW]

Please update us.

 

My fingers are crossed for the guy, but I am afraid I already know what will happen.

[Island Girl]

What are the odds someone would be friends with him off this forum? *wow*

 

I do hope we get an update.

 

I hope - I really really do - that we all aren't right and she shows up.

 

It would be great to be proven wrong in this case.