Not enough esx in marriage..... Here we go again....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

There are two threads, one a new one titled "Wife will not accept advances" and an older one "Everything good.....except the sex".

 

LS posters I swear generally have more sex then is normal.... I read so many posts about the quantity, length of sexual encounters, # of orgasms and such that I find it incredulous.... I look around and frankly don't see too much sex, but here is a different story.

 

So back to my post, below I read scrunchy's reply to the "Everything good.... except the sex" post and wanted to pull my hair out. It is exactly this type of post that makes you want to throw your hands up and give up.... See below for her post and my response....

 

Hope others are as offended by her post and some can answer what the hell we can do to get some from our spouses and all I am looking for is 2X's a week (not daily and twice on weekends, as others on LS are having:rolleyes:)....

 

 

 

Originally Posted by scrunchy

Maybe that's the problem. These men are feminizing themselves too much and are too available to their wives. All of that can be much more of a turn-off than a turn-on. Sure, I would love my hypothetical hubby to do all the work around the house and treat me like a queen, but that doesn't mean it would automatically make me sexually attracted to him! Go out more often and stop putting on the apron to cook would be my suggestion.

Humans want what they can't get or what is hard to attain. I wouldn't put myself on a silver platter to them and then on top of that, do all the housework. You might get farther doing the opposite.

 

Your wives were putting out more often BEFORE they were married - before they had you in the bag. Now that you are completely available to them and tied down to ONLY them, they may lose some of their libido. Why? Cause it's no longer needed. They needed it to land you but that task is accomplished so now it's onto child-rearing. When they feel the hunt is still on, then that sexual energy may come back. What changed before and after marriage? Sounds like you fellas have turned into half-housewife and look how far that has gotten you?

 

Am I going to get sexually excited by my husband doing the vacuuming? I would be very pleased for sure, yes. But come on!! I mean would you get turned on if your wife helped you fix the car if you were a mechanic? "WOW you helped me put in a new engine!" Now afterward she looks like a greased up dirty man, clothes torn, hairy raspy and straggly, and you go "LETS HAVE SEX NOW". Possibly maybe, but I'm not so sure!

 

I think it's important for both sexes to maintain their sexuality. Especially if a man is the breadwinner, why should he be working long shifts and then be expected to take care of the household? The least a sahm could do is keep the house in order. I would definitely leave most of the cleaning to the wife. Cooking is one thing but trying to spic and span the house is way too feminizing for a male. I'm sorry but it is. How do you expect a woman to be attracted when you grow female characteristics yourself. "I DO THE DISHES, SO HAVE SEX WITH ME!" Blah... B O R I N G... THANKS>> I WONT NAG YOU NOW HUNNY, BUT HELL, I WONT HAVE SEX WITH YA EITHER> GN! or ALRIGHT, YOU CLEANED THE COUNTERS< ILL GIVE YOU THE OBLIGATORY QUICKIE! THEN SHUT UP AND GET TO BED! GN!

 

Sometimes being too attentive is no good either. It feels the same way as one would feel as if they have a stalker or are someone else's obsession- first instinct is to run. Less attention, less availability, less womanly traits and more of the man you were before marriage.

I wish I knew if anything has changed, I was involved since day 1 with an all too typical problem.

 

 

 

Now for the above post. Bull.... This is what many males have to put up with way too much. We don't pull our weight, we are not affectionate enough, we aren't romantic enough, we can't read signals.

 

How many times do we hear how much work the wife does and that she is exhausted and then when we help, carry more then our share and we expect to be recognized and yes rewarded (because the wife has had that burden lifted) do we then read this crap above.

 

There is no winning....

[angie2443]

How many times do we hear how much work the wife does and that she is exhausted and then when we help, carry more then our share and we expect to be recognized and yes rewarded (because the wife has had that burden lifted) do we then read this crap above.

 

There is no winning....

 

Do you consider housework and child care to be women's work?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Do you consider housework and child care to be women's work?

 

No, not at all.... I did not want to go through the details and all the posts and responses, but suffice to say the OP brought home the paycheck (at least the much bigger one), participated in the work around the house and such and did the romantic work and was spurned.

 

Dateline did an hour on infidelity last week and the over riding point is that men wanted to be appreciated for all those things they did, be it cleaning, taking the kids to activities, coaching, cooking in addition to the paycheque..... and in the marriage the woman often responded with "so what, that is your job".....

 

So here we go the first post already attacks me and wonders as to the motives and whether I consider housework and childcare women's work.....

 

And you wonder why I posted??????

[HsMomma]

Dateline did an hour on infidelity last week and the over riding point is that men wanted to be appreciated for all those things they did, be it cleaning, taking the kids to activities, coaching, cooking in addition to the paycheque..... and in the marriage the woman often responded with "so what, that is your job".....

 

So here we go the first post already attacks me and wonders as to the motives and whether I consider housework and childcare women's work.....

 

And you wonder why I posted??????

 

I understand what you're saying TDP - and I agree. I didn't watch the Dateline program, but I do know that my husband (and just about every man I've known well enough to discuss what they WANT/NEED in relationships) feels the same way. Everyone wants to be appreciated. In our home, we don't consider anything "man's work" or "woman's work." We both do what needs doing. I will tell you this, though. Several months ago, I asked my husband if I could do anything differently to increase your happiness in our marriage, what would it be. His response? "I'd like for you to initiate sex more often."

 

I work full-time, have a teenage daughter who's going to be starting high school in a few months, am involved on a sports team, and yes, I'm busy. BUT, I feel that my marriage is well worth that small price he's asking for. SO...even though I'm tired/stressed/middle-aged , etc., etc., etc., I have made a concerted effort to be the one who initiates intimacy with my husband. I TELL him, too, how much I appreciate him and all he does. Do we have a perfect marriage? Of course not - NO marriage is perfect. But you originally asked what it takes to have more intimacy/sex in your marriage...I say, ASK FOR IT. Make sure she knows that, while you love her, appreciate & want her, it makes YOU feel loved/appreciated/wanted to be pursued occasionally. It's done wonders for us! Good luck!

[angie2443]

No, not at all.... I did not want to go through the details and all the posts and responses, but suffice to say the OP brought home the paycheck (at least the much bigger one), participated in the work around the house and such and did the romantic work and was spurned.

 

Dateline did an hour on infidelity last week and the over riding point is that men wanted to be appreciated for all those things they did, be it cleaning, taking the kids to activities, coaching, cooking in addition to the paycheque..... and in the marriage the woman often responded with "so what, that is your job".....

 

So here we go the first post already attacks me and wonders as to the motives and whether I consider housework and childcare women's work.....

 

And you wonder why I posted??????

 

I saw the story. I do housework all the time. I rarely get thanked. I would loved to get thanked every once in a while, but that is a differant story. I think everyone needs to be thanked and appreciated in a relationship. I thank my husband quite often and he sais "this is my job". Go figure!

 

Anyway, my point wasn't to attack you. I just see this quite often where the man says he helps with the housework and expects sex in return. Quite frankly, it blows my mind. I don't think, "I just did the dishes, my husband better have sex with me tonight!". I do the dishes, etc., because they have to be done.

 

Now, I do think sex is an important part of a relationship, and when it starts to slip, the couple needs to work together to find out what's really going on. From what I've seen, the dimminishing sex life is more often a symptom of a troubled relationship then just one partner saying to themselves "I just don't want to have sex anymore, so I'm just not going to do it."

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I understand what you're saying TDP - and I agree. I didn't watch the Dateline program, but I do know that my husband (and just about every man I've known well enough to discuss what they WANT/NEED in relationships) feels the same way. Everyone wants to be appreciated. In our home, we don't consider anything "man's work" or "woman's work." We both do what needs doing. I will tell you this, though. Several months ago, I asked my husband if I could do anything differently to increase your happiness in our marriage, what would it be. His response? "I'd like for you to initiate sex more often."

 

I work full-time, have a teenage daughter who's going to be starting high school in a few months, am involved on a sports team, and yes, I'm busy. BUT, I feel that my marriage is well worth that small price he's asking for. SO...even though I'm tired/stressed/middle-aged , etc., etc., etc., I have made a concerted effort to be the one who initiates intimacy with my husband. I TELL him, too, how much I appreciate him and all he does. Do we have a perfect marriage? Of course not - NO marriage is perfect. But you originally asked what it takes to have more intimacy/sex in your marriage...I say, ASK FOR IT. Make sure she knows that, while you love her, appreciate & want her, it makes YOU feel loved/appreciated/wanted to be pursued occasionally. It's done wonders for us! Good luck!

 

Sorry, but that is again a fallacy. Check posts and it is always the same. Couples have the talk it changes for a month and then back to more of the same.

 

Just being honest.

[angie2443]

Sorry, but that is again a fallacy. Check posts and it is always the same. Couples have the talk it changes for a month and then back to more of the same.

 

Just being honest.

 

By the attitude you have presented in your posts, I'm assuming that you are contributing to the problems in your relationship. This is the case for most relationships anyways. While we are all good at blaming our relationship problems on the other partner, the truth is that most problems in a relationship are caused by both people in it.

 

While HsMomma hasn't said this in her post (unless I missed it), I'm sure her husband is doing things to make the work she is putting in worth the effort. If I'm wrong, sorry for making the assumption.

 

My sugestion for you is to see a MC to find out what's really going on with your relationship. If you still feel that your wife isn't giving you enough sex, then seek a divorce.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

By the attitude you have presented in your posts, I'm assuming that you are contributing to the problems in your relationship. This is the case for most relationships anyways. While we are all good at blaming our relationship problems on the other partner, the truth is that most problems in a relationship are caused by both people in it.

 

While HsMomma hasn't said this in her post (unless I missed it), I'm sure her husband is doing things to make the work she is putting in worth the effort. If I'm wrong, sorry for making the assumption.

 

My sugestion for you is to see a MC to find out what's really going on with your relationship. If you still feel that your wife isn't giving you enough sex, then seek a divorce.

 

I give up..... you are missing the point. If you think that doing the dishes will help the spouse get in the mood, you do it.... As a woman, if your spouse says they are too tired, not feeling sexy and not in the mood from (not their job), but because they did the lawn, cleaned the pool, took the kids to practise and fixed the car, because those were all a priority over sex and you didn't help then that is the problem.

 

Did you watch the Dateline and listen to what was said and how men reacted and why they looked for affairs and what the OW gave them? There even was a couple where the wife said he always wanted sex, and now that they were married and not the young fun lovers she wasn't as interested (paraphrasing). They did not push her to explain her attitude, but went after the husband who wanted the physical intimacy to validate their relationship.

 

I can't continue trying to explain simple facts to you, then having them misconstrued and being told to see a MC and eventually get a divorce.... I give up!!!!

[HsMomma]

Sorry, but that is again a fallacy. Check posts and it is always the same. Couples have the talk it changes for a month and then back to more of the same.

 

Just being honest.

 

No, TDP, I don't think you're being honest - I think you're being obstinate. You asked for advice - I told you what has worked in MY marriage & you tell me it's a fallacy. I don't think you even paid attention to what I posted...I also realize that what works for one couple may not work for another; but, I don't think you are really after advice - I think you just wanted to vent & complain. If you're not willing to try something different to get the results you want, I'd say you have no one to blame but yourself. And, just so you know, my h & I talked about this more than a month ago. The difference is, I meant it when I asked what I could do & I've put forth the effort to do it.

 

I'm not sure what you're really looking for here - maybe I've missed the point entirely. If so, please enlighten me.

[HsMomma]

While HsMomma hasn't said this in her post (unless I missed it), I'm sure her husband is doing things to make the work she is putting in worth the effort. If I'm wrong, sorry for making the assumption.

 

Nope, Angie, you didn't miss anything. My h does do things that make the work I put into our marriage worth the effort. The other REALLY important thing is, HE puts effort forth, too. I'm not sure the OP is willing to put in any true work or effort - just wants more sex, but on their own terms - and I said as much. You're absolutely right - it takes two to make (or break) a marriage & without communication and effort on both parts, it usually isn't pretty!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

No, TDP, I don't think you're being honest - I think you're being obstinate. You asked for advice - I told you what has worked in MY marriage & you tell me it's a fallacy. I don't think you even paid attention to what I posted...I also realize that what works for one couple may not work for another; but, I don't think you are really after advice - I think you just wanted to vent & complain. If you're not willing to try something different to get the results you want, I'd say you have no one to blame but yourself. And, just so you know, my h & I talked about this more than a month ago. The difference is, I meant it when I asked what I could do & I've put forth the effort to do it.

 

I'm not sure what you're really looking for here - maybe I've missed the point entirely. If so, please enlighten me.

 

I didn't ask for advise, I pointed to 2 posts and showed a response from one woman I found particularly offensive (i.e. we don't particularly care for the sensitive male who helps around the house to paraphrase).

 

I commented that I found that condescending and could only throw up my hands in surrender as a male there seems to be no winning.

 

I wasn't necessarily talking about myself either (though there are bits and pieces). I moreso am exasperated as there seems to be such divergent comments and in the end these males (read the 2 threads mentioned), who basically are out of luck.

[soserious1]

What I'm hearing some women trying to tell you is that everyday women also do

all sorts of chores,some of them unpleasant and we are not "thanked" in any way shape or form for our contributions, in fact we're told things like "it's women's work" to have a guy standing there pouting because we're not all hot to give him a BJ because he watched his own children for a couple hours, washed dishes that he also eats from or otherwise participated in upkeeping the house, children, the life that he helped to build strikes a lot of us as demeaning.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

What I'm hearing some women trying to tell you is that everyday women also do

all sorts of chores,some of them unpleasant and we are not "thanked" in any way shape or form for our contributions, in fact we're told things like "it's women's work" to have a guy standing there pouting because we're not all hot to give him a BJ because he watched his own children for a couple hours, washed dishes that he also eats from or otherwise participated in upkeeping the house, children, the life that he helped to build strikes a lot of us as demeaning.

 

 

Again I point to the Dateline piece, which addressed why men had affairs. That was not my point and I am beyond frustrated hearing people think it is.

 

The point is when a man hears or perceives the woman is too tired, exhausted, frayed, exasperated to have sex and he has done his share in alleviating that burden and is still hot to bang his wife and she says no, he has no answer or idea what to do next.

[soserious1]

Again I point to the Dateline piece, which addressed why men had affairs. That was not my point and I am beyond frustrated hearing people think it is.

 

The point is when a man hears or perceives the woman is too tired, exhausted, frayed, exasperated to have sex and he has done his share in alleviating that burden and is still hot to bang his wife and she says no, he has no answer or idea what to do next.

 

I lived in a marriage where I earned ALL the money and did a fair share of our life chores. I went totally without sex of any kind for a solid year. I knew exactly what to do next, I divorced, no sneaking around having affairs.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I lived in a marriage where I earned ALL the money and did a fair share of our life chores. I went totally without sex of any kind for a solid year. I knew exactly what to do next, I divorced, no sneaking around having affairs.

 

Good for you.... The below obviously sounds like your situation and you handled it right....

 

 

 

Again if the man said he is too tired and does not feel like sex, because of all the yard work, work on the car and housework he did (cleaning the troughs, painting, fixing leaks) and his spouse then did 50% of the work the next time and he looks at her and says "well it's your house too and by the way I'm still tired and not in the mood for sex"....

[soserious1]

Good for you.... The below obviously sounds like your situation and you handled it right....

 

 

 

Again if the man said he is too tired and does not feel like sex, because of all the yard work, work on the car and housework he did (cleaning the troughs, painting, fixing leaks) and his spouse then did 50% of the work the next time and he looks at her and says "well it's your house too and by the way I'm still tired and not in the mood for sex"....

 

I guess you have to sit down and decide, "is the amount of sex we're having a deal breaker for me ?" if it is, you go see a divorce lawyer, get the papers drawn up and served to her. She'll either decide that a divorce is fine by her or she'll decide to join with you in doing whatever it takes to save the marriage.

[GorillaTheater]

I guess you have to sit down and decide, "is the amount of sex we're having a deal breaker for me ?" if it is, you go see a divorce lawyer, get the papers drawn up and served to her. She'll either decide that a divorce is fine by her or she'll decide to join with you in doing whatever it takes to save the marriage.

 

If you've reached the point of deadlock in your marriage, despite all reasonable attempts on your part to set things on the right path, this is good advice. Some people, men and women, need a more significant wake up call than others. If she responds by wanting to make it work, that's great. If not, then it would appear that you didn't really have a relationship to lose.

[angie2443]

What I'm hearing some women trying to tell you is that everyday women also do

all sorts of chores,some of them unpleasant and we are not "thanked" in any way shape or form for our contributions, in fact we're told things like "it's women's work" to have a guy standing there pouting because we're not all hot to give him a BJ because he watched his own children for a couple hours, washed dishes that he also eats from or otherwise participated in upkeeping the house, children, the life that he helped to build strikes a lot of us as demeaning.

 

Well put soserious!

[angie2443]

Toodamnpragmatic, first I think you need to focus on your situation and your situation alone. It's tempting to compare your situation to that of other people on here. At the same time, there are so many factors in each situation to consider and your only getting one side of the story. This doesn't mean that the posters are liars here, it just means that we can never really know the whole story. You seem to be taking some of these stories to heart and are very angry over them. I've done the same. Trust me, if you want your situation to improve, your going to have to let go of some of the anger and focus on the problem at hand.

 

First, you'll have to decide if you want to save your relationship or let it go. If you want to save it, your going to have to put in 100% at least. If you don't want to do this, just let it go.

 

Next, you'll want to invest in a good MC. Make sure they are experienced in marriage counsiling. A good MC who hears both your stories will be better able to understand what's going on with the sex issue than those of us on LS. If you don't want to see a MC or your partner refuses to see one, then your best bet is to just let the marriage go.

 

If you do decide to work on the marriage, you're going to have to see your part in the sex problem, or rather, the problems in your relationship. Yes, it could be that your partner just doesn't care and there is no hope. However, from my observation, most of the time the "lack of intimancy" is just a symptom of deeper problems in the relationship.

 

For the record, My husband and I haven't had this issue come up in our relationship. I think if either of had thought of sex as some sort of commodity, then the issue might have come up.

[Mr. Lucky]

Again if the man said he is too tired and does not feel like sex, because of all the yard work, work on the car and housework he did (cleaning the troughs, painting, fixing leaks) and his spouse then did 50% of the work the next time and he looks at her and says "well it's your house too and by the way I'm still tired and not in the mood for sex"....

All you've done by pitching in and doing your share of the "home" work is removing that one obstacle, real or imagined, to your sex life. However, just because I've got a passport doesn't mean I'm going to be taking a trip. Still got to arrange and pay for the flight, find the hotel, etc. Most people know that housework doesn't really stand between two people if they want to find time for each other. And if that is the case, then you're not going to address the problem by doing the dishes...

 

Mr. Lucky

[scrunchy]

Good lord, I cannot believe one post of mine would stir up so much contraversy... Is doing the dishes working for you and your friends on here? Well, I'm sorry, but that does not drive sexual emotions in a relationship. I actually don't care how much work you do around the house, that is not going to turn me on. If you cannot deal with a person's OPINION, grow up, and then come back.

 

Maybe instead I should have encouraged the already PROVEN futile actions you and others are taking in trying to achieve an active sex life ("YOU COULD TRY DOING A FEW EXTRA DISHES" ,etc)... is it workin' for ya? After a few months, much less 6 months or A YEAR, you should know the answer. Sorry, but It makes me laugh. Next time I will lie to spare you your feelings, but I thought you came on here for some honest advice..

[scrunchy]

Mr Lucky pretty much summed up the situation.

 

My advice may or may not have been relatable to many, but I surely wouldn't go the failure route for an entire year and then just try to expand upon it thereafter. Not taking care of his household duties was obviously not the problem, so he needs to switch direction. What a wife THINKS or SAYS is the problem and what really IS may be entirely different. End of story.

[giotto]

TDP, have you ever thought that maybe your wife doesn't find you that attractive anymore? You can do whaterver you like, but if the sexual spark (from her point of view) is gone, you can wash dishes for the rest of your life...

 

If I didn't find my wife that attractive anymore, I would do whatever I can to have as little sex as possible with her... it might not even be the sexual attraction... maybe she now thinks you are a moron, she doesn't like you anymore as a person...

 

I don't know your story, but my wife one day confessed me that she didn't love me like she used to anymore. I swept this statement under the carpet and carried on demanding sex, until the relationship broke down. Funnily enough, I'm taking some pills to top smoking and they have wiped my libido out and they make me really tired... I was lying in bed the other night, my little dangling friend in the land of nod, and I thought: what if my wife wanted sex now? Would I able to do it? No way! You see, I've always wanted sex, I always felt aroused, and I never felt like not wanting to do it... it just dawned on me... all the times I hassled her for sex, and she didn't want it, for whatever reason... what a moron I've been...

 

Relationships change and if your wife doesn't want sex with you - or not that often - in my opinion there isn't very much you can do about it... it's up to you: accept it or pack your bags. No amount of dishwashing is going to change your wife. It's not what you do, it's how you are perceived and what she has come to think of you after all these years...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Mr Lucky pretty much summed up the situation.

 

My advice may or may not have been relatable to many, but I surely wouldn't go the failure route for an entire year and then just try to expand upon it thereafter. Not taking care of his household duties was obviously not the problem, so he needs to switch direction. What a wife THINKS or SAYS is the problem and what really IS may be entirely different. End of story.

 

This was not about me.... I was pointing to two other threads and the dismay, and helplessness others felt and then I have to hear the usual responses and being told I am not attractive, not pulling my weight, helping around the house is of minimal importance, not communicating and that I better see a MC and consider a divorce.

 

How about in these 2 cases it is the woman's fault 85%.....

[angie2443]

This was not about me.... I was pointing to two other threads and the dismay, and helplessness others felt and then I have to hear the usual responses and being told I am not attractive, not pulling my weight, helping around the house is of minimal importance, not communicating and that I better see a MC and consider a divorce.

 

How about in these 2 cases it is the woman's fault 85%.....

 

Now I'm starting to think you're a troll trying to instigate a fight for the fun of it. Have a nice weekend:).