Not enough esx in marriage..... Here we go again....

[c-riouz]

erm... orgasm?

 

Erm...really?

 

You can have that through masturbation too.

 

That's exactly my point. What exactly is it about sex that makes it so important for men? I mean, if you really think about it technically, it's just warm, wet tissue. So is your own hand and some oil.

 

And I'm serious. I don't mean to mock you. I just don't understand what the big deal about thrusting in and out of a wet tissue is.....maybe that's because I'm on the receiving end, and I don't always want somebody to be inside me, literally....hmm...maybe there's a psychological component to this in general - when women are stressed, tired, not satisfied, they don't want anyone inside them, metaphorically and literally - I might be onto something here...

[soserious1]

So then back to my post above citing Dan Savage, his column and his view of marriage that I discuss in post #78..... It is all part of being a good/loving/appreciative spouse.

 

I do these things out of love for my spouse, and the fact I love to see her less harried/stressed/feeling overworked/too much burden, you miss that point.

 

Tell you what read post #78 and tell me why Dan is full of crap???

 

because if you did these things purely out of love, you wouldn't be foot stomping pissed off that she didn't give you sex in return?

 

I don't know about you but when I'm considering whether or not I want certain goods or services, I like to know what the price tag is going to be in advance. What you are saying here is that you'll take a daily pressure off your wife, only to replace it with pressure of a different sort..ie: sex

 

How would you feel if your wife said "can we cut to the chase here, how about I give you a quick BJ, and forget the foot rub crap and the other 45 minutes of stuff you're going to add to my bill ?

 

Btw, I like sex but if I were approached in the way you describe I'd tell you that I can wash my own dishes, care for the children, pour my own wine and if I want a foot rub I'll pay cash for one, you however would be entirely free to stick your dick in whatever woman was willing to have you because honestly, the "you owe me" approach would be a dead up turn off to me.

[Mr. Lucky]

You can have that through masturbation too.

And I could also talk to myself instead of to a partner. Or take my racquet and ball and hit by my self against the wall. Although I think most people would agree that along with the previously mentioned orgasm, those activities are most enjoyable with a partner.

 

I'll have to admit that I suspect that you're pulling our chain here when you ask "what does sex give you that cuddling doesn't"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[soserious1]

And I could also talk to myself instead of to a partner. Or take my racquet and ball and hit by my self against the wall. Although I think most people would agree that along with the previously mentioned orgasm, those activities are most enjoyable with a partner.

 

I'll have to admit that I suspect that you're pulling our chain here when you ask "what does sex give you that cuddling doesn't"...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

A fairly good number of women rarely orgasm with a partner and can only achieve climax via self-pleasure, some women even find difficulty orgasming at all, I'd imagine to such women

that the pleasures of sex would seem to be over rated.

[Mr. Lucky]

A fairly good number of women rarely orgasm with a partner and can only achieve climax via self-pleasure, some women even find difficulty orgasming at all, I'd imagine to such women

that the pleasures of sex would seem to be over rated.

Certainly entitled to their opinions and sexual preferences. I'd just hope that they would be upfront with a potential spouse that they feel that the "pleasures of sex would seem to be over rated"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Toodamnpragmatic]

because if you did these things purely out of love, you wouldn't be foot stomping pissed off that she didn't give you sex in return?

 

I don't know about you but when I'm considering whether or not I want certain goods or services, I like to know what the price tag is going to be in advance. What you are saying here is that you'll take a daily pressure off your wife, only to replace it with pressure of a different sort..ie: sex

 

How would you feel if your wife said "can we cut to the chase here, how about I give you a quick BJ, and forget the foot rub crap and the other 45 minutes of stuff you're going to add to my bill ?

 

Btw, I like sex but if I were approached in the way you describe I'd tell you that I can wash my own dishes, care for the children, pour my own wine and if I want a foot rub I'll pay cash for one, you however would be entirely free to stick your dick in whatever woman was willing to have you because honestly, the "you owe me" approach would be a dead up turn off to me.

 

Look soserious1 I am very sorry for your situation and it pains me to hear these stories about your marriage and H...... but to take everything I say out of context and to think everything I have written comes down to simply "I did the dishes, well that I think is worth at least a BJ" tells me your are clouded by your past.

 

As for Dan Savage I enjoyed and agree with his perspective on marriage.

 

So since you asked I put a shopping list/price tag together for you:

 

Sex on spouse's terms 1 X a month (yes she does orgasm and probably wants it at least once a month)

Dishes 4-6X's a week - BJ 1X a week

Washing Floors weekly - Sex 1 X a month

Vacuuming weekly - Sex 1 X a month

Job (primary income) - Sex 1.5 X a week

Flowers - Sex that evening spouses choice

Dinner @ expensive restaurant - Sex that evening

Expensive gift (not household essentials) - My choice, multiple times in evening if all works out, spouse responsible for the heavy lifting and work. To be continued throughout the week as required and enjoyed. Spouse will participate in the work as week progresses.

Vacation (Cruise/All inclusive) - 3/4 X's that week

Car (luxury vehicle totally inappropriate or not required at the time of purchase) - Kink

Children - Primary responsibility for all activities driving/coaching - 2 X's a month....

 

Should I go on???

 

Please note the above was all tongue in cheek, completely inappropriate and only a response to the non-stop derogatory posts I have read saying I put a price on sex and thus spouse is the equivalent of a prostitute....

[soserious1]

Look soserious1 I am very sorry for your situation and it pains me to hear these stories about your marriage and H...... but to take everything I say out of context and to think everything I have written comes down to simply "I did the dishes, well that I think is worth at least a BJ" tells me your are clouded by your past.

 

As for Dan Savage I enjoyed and agree with his perspective on marriage.

 

So since you asked I put a shopping list/price tag together for you:

 

Sex on spouse's terms 1 X a month (yes she does orgasm and probably wants it at least once a month)

Dishes 4-6X's a week - BJ 1X a week

Washing Floors weekly - Sex 1 X a month

Vacuuming weekly - Sex 1 X a month

Job (primary income) - Sex 1.5 X a week

Flowers - Sex that evening spouses choice

Dinner @ expensive restaurant - Sex that evening

Expensive gift (not household essentials) - My choice, multiple times in evening if all works out, spouse responsible for the heavy lifting and work. To be continued throughout the week as required and enjoyed. Spouse will participate in the work as week progresses.

Vacation (Cruise/All inclusive) - 3/4 X's that week

Car (luxury vehicle totally inappropriate or not required at the time of purchase) - Kink

Children - Primary responsibility for all activities driving/coaching - 2 X's a month....

 

Should I go on???

 

Please note the above was all tongue in cheek, completely inappropriate and only a response to the non-stop derogatory posts I have read saying I put a price on sex and thus spouse is the equivalent of a prostitute....

 

Hold the phone a second.. I'm not the only person in this thread reading your posts in that manner.

 

I'm no prude ,I like sex and I tend to like it raw,rough even, without nicety, without preamble, without romance but I've got to tell you that your posts aren't coming across as "tongue in cheek"

 

Again, if you feel that you're "going above and beyond" "going out of your way" to "relieve my spouse of her burden" but then you stomp your foot and get pissy because she doesn't turn around and jump your jock.. then you most assuredly are putting a price tag on the things you're doing for her.

 

Here's the deal, once again, coming from a woman who was the sole

bread winner and lived in a totally sexless marriage for 1 solid year..

if your marriage is otherwise a good one, you can more than likely get a lower desire spouse to compromise with you on frequency of sex if you want it 3-4 times a week she might agree to 2x with the occasional extra quickie thrown in... but you CANNOT force anybody to feel raw passionate lust for you with the same frequency and intensity that you would like, you can bribe, guilt trip or threaten a person into feigning desire but you cannot legislate or will them into doing so. As an aside here, if a spouse is as reluctant to have sex as you claim, how can you be so sure she's orgasming and isn't just faking to get you off quicker and get it over with sooner ?

 

In the end, the partner with the lower desire level will control the sex within a relationship.. you can compromise on frequency, you can negotiate (and many couples do) to open the marriage so the higher drive spouse can get it elsewhere... or you can divorce.

 

 

I totally get where you're coming from, I know the pain and frustration of those in sexless or almost sexless marriages but in the end what our choices come down to is summed up in the phrase "you cannot legislate desire"

[Toodamnpragmatic]

How about a truce soserious1???? Trust me I am very lucky, my spouse and I have a very good loving marriage that has survived a good while I think.

 

The post started with me questioning one comment I found insulting to men and without any understanding of LTR's, family and day to day life. I noted other posts and the pain men (in those cases) felt.

 

It has evolved in to personal attacks on me and my relationship and views, which I do post in as honest a way as possible.

 

So let's put this behind us and move forward.

[soserious1]

How about a truce soserious1???? Trust me I am very lucky, my spouse and I have a very good loving marriage that has survived a good while I think.

 

The post started with me questioning one comment I found insulting to men and without any understanding of LTR's, family and day to day life. I noted other posts and the pain men (in those cases) felt.

 

It has evolved in to personal attacks on me and my relationship and views, which I do post in as honest a way as possible.

 

So let's put this behind us and move forward.

 

LOL, no, not so fast.. you assumed the role here of the devil's advocate on behalf of sex starved married men everywhere, my answers to your posts used the word "you" in the generic sense, in no way a "personal attack"

 

And I've raised some very valid and real points based on my unfortunate

real life experience within a sexless marriage.

 

Can you legislate desire? is bribing, guilt tripping, brow beating or even threatening a lower desire partner into having sex with you more frequently satisfying ? Does it equal having somebody burning with desire to sex you? Can blaming them for not wanting you physically bring them to proclaim burning passion for you?

 

I state that one cannot force, will or legislate another person's desires. I don't hate my ex-husband for no longer desiring me physically, as much as that knowledge hurt at the time,

I do blame him for the needless pain he put me thru till we finally got down to the nitty gritty of the matter but one cannot force the heart and body to feel what isn't there.

 

In the end, you weigh things, can you together reach a compromise you can live with, is there enough good in the rest of the marriage to make the trade off worth it or do you decide that staying for the rest of your life having an intimacy that's forced and half hearted isn't really living and you divorce.

 

In the end it's that simple and that hard..

[Asami]

Having sex is not making love.

 

Men complain that their wife/girlfriend is no longer interested in 'having sex' with them. But I wonder if they ever were interested in 'having sex' with them in the first place.

 

I would bet my bottom dollar that the very same men who are asking their wife/girlfriend to 'have sex' with them are the very same guys who used to make love to them.

 

There is a HUGE difference between 'having sex' and making love to a woman. One implies a sex act to feed a physiological urge. Making love implies feeding the intimacy through the physical. The desire for her... the attraction... the need. The 'having sex' implies a need to get off and she is the handy dandy vessel to accomplish it. There can sometimes be a feeling of entitlement by men as far as marriage and sex is concerned. As if the band of gold is a free pass to funtown for the duration of their lifetime together.

 

Men may have indicated that their reasons for cheating were based upon 'feeling' unappreciated and not getting laid. And/or feeling unappreciated because they weren't getting laid. What bothers me most about this is that men construe appreciation as sex. In other words, he feels validated as a man and appreciated because he gets laid.

 

As a married and faithful woman I am finding myself disgusted by the whole 'having sex' thing. It doesn't sound loving it sounds like a married man looking to get sexually serviced as repayment for his fidelity and earning a paycheck.... hence, making a wife a prostitute. Which is not... by the way a turn on.

 

I personally think it is endearing when my husband does things around the house. I do not find it emasculating. I do not find it a 'turn on' for sex either. It makes me like him a whole lot.... and there is much to be said for liking someone as well as loving them.

 

I agree with this 100% this how my ex-husband made me feel about the issue..

[OpenBook]

The 'having sex' implies a need to get off and she is the handy dandy vessel to accomplish it. There can sometimes be a feeling of entitlement by men as far as marriage and sex is concerned. As if the band of gold is a free pass to funtown for the duration of their lifetime together.

 

Men may have indicated that their reasons for cheating were based upon 'feeling' unappreciated and not getting laid. And/or feeling unappreciated because they weren't getting laid. What bothers me most about this is that men construe appreciation as sex. In other words, he feels validated as a man and appreciated because he gets laid.

 

As a married and faithful woman I am finding myself disgusted by the whole 'having sex' thing. It doesn't sound loving it sounds like a married man looking to get sexually serviced as repayment for his fidelity and earning a paycheck.... hence, making a wife a prostitute. Which is not... by the way a turn on.

 

What I fail to understand is why there exists this Neanderthal concept concerning sex. A/K/A, I married her now she has to put out to satisfy me. That sounds as barbaric as a dude on a date who has bought dinner expecting sexual favors...

 

And, no, I don't want to hear any more moronic crap about how sex is part of the deal. Go get a hooker. With sick attitudes like you've portrayed who the hell would want to?

 

Gamine, you nailed it (pardon the horrible pun). This is precisely how men think. Sex IS part of the deal for them -- in fact it's the primary reason why they get married in the first place. Their expectations are that they're marrying easy sex for the rest of their lives; they don't have to "work for it" anymore. When the honeymoon wears off, the W becomes their receptacle. This is horrible and awful for the women who marry them. And it's the exact reason why I want no part of marriage. Nobody's going to roll over in the middle of the night and tap ME on the shoulder!!

[giotto]

It's good to hear the "truth" from some of the female posters... I appreciate it... I was one of those husbands putting pressure on my spouse to have sex (well, only once every fortnight - but this is not the point). As the person with the higher sex drive, I learnt the hard way that there is absolutely nothing you can do if your wife/partner loses her libido or sex drive. You can work on it, but compromising will feel like a half-baked solution. I want my wife to have sex with me because she wants it, not because she has to. This situation (the compromising) was a huge turn-off for me. After she "obliged" a couple of times, with mediocre results (actually, pretty humiliating for me), I didn't find that woman attractive anymore. That wasn't the woman I wanted to have sex with. So, I'm quite off the whole "sex with the wife thing". We can have sex if she wants to, but "being pushed into it" is never a good idea.

 

To the people who say "work on it", I say "bull****"! Women lose their libido for many reasons: children, stress, antidepressants, but how many women communicate enough with their husband to be able to tell them the real reason of their lack of libido? If your wife doesn't want to have sex with you, she is gone off you, for some reason. All I wanted in my marriage was to be told that reason... that only happened recently, after over 10 years of struggling.

 

So, TDP... if men put too much pressure on their partners, the sex will disappear. It's a big turn-off being "forced" to do it. We must be patient and nice and help and do what we have to do. But then, I suppose, I stopped loving my wife some time ago now, so it's easy for me to say that...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Gamine, you nailed it (pardon the horrible pun). This is precisely how men think. Sex IS part of the deal for them -- in fact it's the primary reason why they get married in the first place. Their expectations are that they're marrying easy sex for the rest of their lives; they don't have to "work for it" anymore. When the honeymoon wears off, the W becomes their receptacle. This is horrible and awful for the women who marry them. And it's the exact reason why I want no part of marriage. Nobody's going to roll over in the middle of the night and tap ME on the shoulder!!

 

Yes it was part of the deal before they married..... Again read post 78 and comment on that. Read the OP, where the men are in relationships with women who claim they love them they are happy, sex works when they have it, yet things don't change. To be so matter of fact and call yourselves receptacles is insulting to women (and men too).

 

Read this post

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t189616/

 

or c-riouz and her view.

 

As for Giotto - All I can say is sorry. I hope you do find happiness and hope you really don't believe the "truth" as said by some females here.

[c-riouz]

After she "obliged" a couple of times, with mediocre results (actually, pretty humiliating for me), I didn't find that woman attractive anymore. [...] But then, I suppose, I stopped loving my wife some time ago now, so it's easy for me to say that...

 

So you only loved her for sex? Because she was a convenient sex toy, a warm, wet hole?

 

This is exactly the attitude that Gamine was talking about (or at least the attitude I agree with).

[c-riouz]

"If one shows their love with an expensive gift, doing the dishes/chores so the other spouse can relax, give a massage, cancel a night out to stay with their spouse..... how about sex in return? "

 

The problem is that you're NOT showing your love with that if, as your last part of your sentence reveals, you only do it for something else in return (sex in this case). You're not doing it out of love, you're doing it because you expect something in return.

 

Women can sense that attitude and it is a turnoff.

[c-riouz]

The more I read from you, the more I understand why a woman wouldn't want to have sex with you anymore. If this is your attitude in real life too....

 

It is a cop out to say you fell out of love in many cases. I think they have this unrealistic, harlequinized view of love, lust, sex, passion and relationships, which makes what they have look boring, mundane and lacking.

 

Who are you to judge what is unrealistic and what not? One might as well turn it around and say, "I think men have this unrealistic, porn-esque view of lust, sex, passion and relationships, which makes their own sex life look boring, mundane and lacking."

 

Maybe YOUR views are unrealistic.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

The problem is that you're NOT showing your love with that if, as your last part of your sentence reveals, you only do it for something else in return (sex in this case). You're not doing it out of love, you're doing it because you expect something in return.

 

Women can sense that attitude and it is a turnoff.

 

 

Do you not understand the smiles, sarcasm and irony??? I've given you a blueprint to a man's mind. I will also tell you we expect sex on our anniversary, during vacation and birthday too..... So if that is a turn off, thanks for enlightening me.

[c-riouz]

This is a good posting here...

 

Sex is not the only way we feel connected, but for many, many human beings (not only men), it is one of the major ways -- one of the basic, fundamental ways -- that we connect in marriage, not some sort of optional bonus that can simply be set aside when one partner decides he or she is no longer interested.

 

Exactly. Some just do not see sex as THE ultimate, reassuring way to connect in a relationship, or to feel loved. I feel "loved and appreciated" by other things, but not necessarily by sex. I also don't get the child-like stomping of the feet of the men who feel rejected and insulted when the spouse does not want sex: it is NOT YOU I am rejecting, it is just the activity, the sex. Nothing personal, nothing against you, so don't take it personally and no reason to feel crushed in your manhood, because that wasn't even the intention. That would be like me feeling personally rejected and insulted because you didn't want to play tennis with me. Or whatever. If your sense of self-worth and manhood is dependent on sex....then yes, I see why it is so problematic. But to me rejecting sex does not equal rejecting the man. It is just that I am not in the mood for that activity right there and then. No ulterior motive, just that.

 

I think that this type of situation often relates to different attitudes about sex and it's role in our relationships. Many have said that they need to feel a sense of love & intimacy in order to have sex. Others say that the sense of love and intimacy flows from sex.

Good point. The old "women need love to have sex, men need sex to show love" or so. So who's going to "give in" first? Whose needs are more important? It amazes me that a married man who prioritized sex so highly wouldn't put ANY effort into getting some. Moreover, when a woman is balancing so many things; home, job, kids, aging parents, pregnancy, pms, you name it, her ENERGY ship is sinking. Libido really is going to be one of the first things to go overboard like so much unnecessary ballast. Meanwhile, and I suspect this is universal, a man who's not getting as much sex as he needs, is a fairly grumpy, hard-to-get-along-with, angry guy. And not very appealing at that point to his partner. The more he b*tches about it, the less of a turn on he is, and the less she wants him.

 

That leads to another problem that seems all too common in these situations, whether it’s a man feeling that his wife doesn’t care about their sex lives or a woman feeling that her husband doesn’t care

This is true as well. If you think about the beginning, how you wooed the woman, how your behavior was different....I mean, so many men complain that the sex is "not like in the beginning anymore". Well, are YOU still behaving in the same way as in the beginning? Are you still wooing her, doing the things you did in the beginning? No? Then why wonder that she is not "like in the beginning" anymore either? It's not male sex drive that isn't appealing. It's that many males want their drives satisfied without thinking they need to really spend a lot of time on doing the same for the females. I'm positive that, were we women given charge of the design, we would not have created us to be slow to warm up and climax but we're kinda stuck with it. So to hold it against us and be impatient or unwilling to deal with that is not really to anyone's credit.

 

 

 

The problem I also see is this:

 

Men say they have high libidos, but a lot of them can't be bothered with all the "work" it takes to get a woman warmed up. Unfortunately for you, we are not built with hair triggers. A lot of guys will want sex even if they're stressed, tired, overworked, sad, whatever. Many, many women, when feeling bad for emotional reasons, will feel it first in the lack of libido.

 

So what happens? He doesn't want to do any of the seducing or other things that will get her in the mood but just wants sex because he's got the hair trigger. She's upset because even though he knows she doesn't have the hair trigger, he still can't be bothered doing anything about it. So she feels emotionally bad because he won't make the effort to do a couple little things that would make her happy and put her in the mood, which shuts off her libido. Then he doesn't get sex so decides if he's not getting any, he's certainly not going to be cooperative or bother to try to seduce her or help her get in the mood.

 

And so both go on downwards in a nonproductive spiral of withholding what the other wants. He says "if you'd just have sex with me, I'd be nicer to you". She says "if you'd just be nicer to me, I'd have sex with you". Both stubbornly insist the other has to give in first. And the latter is the real crux of the problem. Love ceases to be about giving and turns into getting. And as long as one isn't getting, there'll be no giving. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is the road to disaster.

[giotto]

So you only loved her for sex? Because she was a convenient sex toy, a warm, wet hole?

 

This is exactly the attitude that Gamine was talking about (or at least the attitude I agree with).

 

ok, I should have said sexually attracted... she didn't like being pressurized for sex and I didn't like the resulting sex... so, at the end we both found ourselves not being sexually attracted to one another anymore... and I didn't stop loving her because of the lack of sex, but because she stopped loving me a long time ago...

[soserious1]

ok, I should have said sexually attracted... she didn't like being pressurized for sex and I didn't like the resulting sex... so, at the end we both found ourselves not being sexually attracted to one another anymore... and I didn't stop loving her because of the lack of sex, but because she stopped loving me a long time ago...

 

I'd suspect that couples who are able to compromise successfully over this issue are those in which the higher drive partner is able to understand that while the other doesn't have the same drive, they're willing to compromise not out of pressure but rather because they do love their partner and want to try to make them happy.

[giotto]

So you only loved her for sex? Because she was a convenient sex toy, a warm, wet hole?

 

This is exactly the attitude that Gamine was talking about (or at least the attitude I agree with).

 

I'd suspect that couples who are able to compromise successfully over this issue are those in which the higher drive partner is able to understand that while the other doesn't have the same drive, they're willing to compromise not out of pressure but rather because they do love their partner and want to try to make them happy.

 

yes, we tried that... But it didn't work... you know why? Because I knew she was doing it just for me and it felt cheap, horrible... I thought my wife was prostituting herself. I think that when you get to the "compromising stage", when you actually have to establish a schedule, it's over.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Again people are reading and writing what they want and not addressing the question. I point to the OP where there is love, friendship, romance, gifts, understanding, listening and all those things you expect. Are things exactly the same as during the courting process? Obviously not. No you are not out drinking, at restaurants, dancing/clubbing late into the evening.... There is often family, responsibility, work.... So we often do the courting in a different way, be it doing those chores we find mundane or at least do it to a higher quality expected by the spouse, foregoing time with friends to spend time at home, or buying something (not a gift) she wants, that you may find unnecessary....

 

Please answer the OP and not use this as a soap box to tell us all the things we do wrong and why we are such shallow, uncaring neanderthals.

 

Finally may be I am really out of it but in the situations I cited in the OP (and mine), the spouses do enjoy sex and do orgasm (no faking I promise), they just don't think about it or consider it a priority or a must.

 

As I said it is way easier to fall out of love then stay in love.

[soserious1]

Again people are reading and writing what they want and not addressing the question. I point to the OP where there is love, friendship, romance, gifts, understanding, listening and all those things you expect. Are things exactly the same as during the courting process? Obviously not. No you are not out drinking, at restaurants, dancing/clubbing late into the evening.... There is often family, responsibility, work.... So we often do the courting in a different way, be it doing those chores we find mundane or at least do it to a higher quality expected by the spouse, foregoing time with friends to spend time at home, or buying something (not a gift) she wants, that you may find unnecessary....

 

Please answer the OP and not use this as a soap box to tell us all the things we do wrong and why we are such shallow, uncaring neanderthals.

 

Finally may be I am really out of it but in the situations I cited in the OP (and mine), the spouses do enjoy sex and do orgasm (no faking I promise), they just don't think about it or consider it a priority or a must.

 

As I said it is way easier to fall out of love then stay in love.

 

 

ok, you keep pushing and pushing for just the answer you want to hear so I'll go ahead and give it to you

 

No, we women don't see you guys doing the dishes, and other family and household related tasks as "courtship" no, doing those things doesnt make us mad with lust and make us want to fsck you. You see we also have tons of mundane household and family related tasks that we must do as well, we are seldom if ever thanked for them and our reward for finishing them is generally being handed another set of tasks to do. Somebody standing there and telling us that they deserve a BJ because they took care of a baby that they helped to create and said they wanted incites strong feelings in us but lust isn't among them, same thing goes for picking up your own clothing, helping to procure or cook foodstuffs you also eat and any of the other 1001 things that go into keeping up the shared life and family that you helped to create.

 

 

btw, the word ÿou is generic, not aimed at you or meant as a personal attack.

 

Yes, sex can be enjoyable but so is shopping, sleeping or 1001 other activities in life and btw, remember how you told us that you look at porn because as a man you need variety in your visual stimulation? well guess what, we might love you but after having sex with the same person a few hundred times and it's not going to take priority over other tasks that might be more urgent, more novel or offer us more intense pleasure... go eat some chocolate or polish hubby's knob for the 500th time.. go try out that new manicurist or shop for shoes or dress up in that stupid nurse outfit yet again? hmmm decisions, decisions ?

[giotto]

you should have kept this message as post n. 1000...

 

well, now we know... but how can we get more sex without emasculating ourself by doing the dishes? It looks like a no-win situation to me...

[angie2443]

you should have kept this message as post n. 1000...

 

well, now we know... but how can we get more sex without emasculating ourself by doing the dishes? It looks like a no-win situation to me...

 

I do not consider doing the dishes to be feminin or masculine. I consider it to be a necessary task. I believe this is Scrunchy's (not sure if the name is right) feelings on the subject, not mine and not the feelings of many other women. You can't take one poster's opinion and assume that all people of the same gender of that poster feel the same way.