Not enough esx in marriage..... Here we go again....

[angie2443]

Again people are reading and writing what they want and not addressing the question. I point to the OP where there is love, friendship, romance, gifts, understanding, listening and all those things you expect. Are things exactly the same as during the courting process? Obviously not. No you are not out drinking, at restaurants, dancing/clubbing late into the evening.... There is often family, responsibility, work.... So we often do the courting in a different way, be it doing those chores we find mundane or at least do it to a higher quality expected by the spouse, foregoing time with friends to spend time at home, or buying something (not a gift) she wants, that you may find unnecessary....

 

Please answer the OP and not use this as a soap box to tell us all the things we do wrong and why we are such shallow, uncaring neanderthals.

 

Finally may be I am really out of it but in the situations I cited in the OP (and mine), the spouses do enjoy sex and do orgasm (no faking I promise), they just don't think about it or consider it a priority or a must.

 

As I said it is way easier to fall out of love then stay in love.

 

I am really confused. I thought OP meant original poster and so I thought that would be you. Does OP mean other poster?

 

Anythways, the part I bolded is the part that I think may cause problems in relationships. Taking care of responsibilities at home is not courtship, it is stuff that has to be done. I enjoy sex with my husband. I enjoy it more when we connect with each other. This idea that doings dishes is the way to a woman's heart is crazy to me. When you take a dump, you wipe your own @$$. When you help create a mess (or your children help create one) you help clean it up. If you think you're doing favors for your partner by cleaning up your own mess, that is really insulting. If you want some of the spark back in your relationship, that might make your wife want more sex, then do something fun with your partner. Connect with your partner. Treat your partner like a queen. Show them how special they are to you. These are the things that might increase the sex in a relationship.l

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I am really confused. I thought OP meant original poster and so I thought that would be you. Does OP mean other poster?

 

Anythways, the part I bolded is the part that I think may cause problems in relationships. Taking care of responsibilities at home is not courtship, it is stuff that has to be done. I enjoy sex with my husband. I enjoy it more when we connect with each other. This idea that doings dishes is the way to a woman's heart is crazy to me. When you take a dump, you wipe your own @$$. When you help create a mess (or your children help create one) you help clean it up. If you think you're doing favors for your partner by cleaning up your own mess, that is really insulting. If you want some of the spark back in your relationship, that might make your wife want more sex, then do something fun with your partner. Connect with your partner. Treat your partner like a queen. Show them how special they are to you. These are the things that might increase the sex in a relationship.l

 

 

The Op pointed to other threads where the men thought they were treating their spouses like queens (and certainly not being treated like Kings in return, by having sex ).

 

I read scrunchy's comments and was personally offended by them and that is what I posted and continue to do so, including my (and many male's checklist) and other issues.

 

We treat them special by doing dishes (especially when we would put them in the dishwasher instead).

 

May be I live in my own private hell (I joke). If I was on my own before I met my wife, my cleanliness was probably a 6. I never learned about cleaning products, what needed to be cleaned in the washroom, cooking skills, proper dusting & vacuuming. This is not sexist, my sister is much worse, as is one of my spouse's sisters. If my wife is a 9.5, I have brought my skills to a solid 8 (though I am still a work in progress and certainly okay with the house being a 6-7)..... So for me to do more then I think is necessary is a form of courtship.

 

Scrunchy's comments to me sounded as though they came from a never married, no children woman, who denigrated things men and women do as they grow old together, have a family, combat stress and life issues that they face everyday.

 

We (men) at least in the posts I mentioned seemed to be carrying their load and going that extra mile. Is this all males? No, just the one's the post referenced.

 

Again in each case the spouse promised/swore up and down that they did enjoy sex too. Sure it is not at the top of the list, but when given the choice between skipping Jay Leno's monologue 2/3 times a week or having sex, I would hope sex wins.

 

That is why we are confused.

[Kasan]

Life seems to be a great equalizer...........

 

I know an older couple who went through the usual dry spells early on in their marriage, where the wife was ambivalent about sex.

 

She worked her issues out and things were great for many years.

 

They are back to square one, as it seems he has lost all of his desire to have sex.

 

It's been since the end of October for them, and she tells me, that the longest they ever went without having sex was a month here and there...........

 

She is not a happy camper.

[Gamine]

The Op pointed to other threads where the men thought they were treating their spouses like queens (and certainly not being treated like Kings in return, by having sex ).

 

I read scrunchy's comments and was personally offended by them and that is what I posted and continue to do so, including my (and many male's checklist) and other issues.

 

We treat them special by doing dishes (especially when we would put them in the dishwasher instead).

 

May be I live in my own private hell (I joke). If I was on my own before I met my wife, my cleanliness was probably a 6. I never learned about cleaning products, what needed to be cleaned in the washroom, cooking skills, proper dusting & vacuuming. This is not sexist, my sister is much worse, as is one of my spouse's sisters. If my wife is a 9.5, I have brought my skills to a solid 8 (though I am still a work in progress and certainly okay with the house being a 6-7)..... So for me to do more then I think is necessary is a form of courtship.

 

Scrunchy's comments to me sounded as though they came from a never married, no children woman, who denigrated things men and women do as they grow old together, have a family, combat stress and life issues that they face everyday.

 

We (men) at least in the posts I mentioned seemed to be carrying their load and going that extra mile. Is this all males? No, just the one's the post referenced.

 

Again in each case the spouse promised/swore up and down that they did enjoy sex too. Sure it is not at the top of the list, but when given the choice between skipping Jay Leno's monologue 2/3 times a week or having sex, I would hope sex wins.

 

That is why we are confused.

 

 

When you stop chasing your orgasm and start chasing her, perhaps she will become interested.

 

I cannot help but observe that many of the men posting share a similar point of view concerning the obligatory sex to service a man in marriage. As repugnant and dehumanizing this sounds to me, this is clearly an issue between you and the woman who you are married to... and not my burden.

 

However, it seems many of the guys are chasing the orgasm. Desire for sex = getting off. Want to get off = sex.

 

Now, you are wondering why a woman doesn't chase the orgasm like a man? I suppose some do, however they are not in the majority and probably not married and/or not married to the man they are chasing it with.

 

Women chase the experience. Don't get me wrong, a happy ending is fabulous but that is not why I show up. I'm there for the totality of the experience. All of it. Feeling the desire the man has for ME. Not himself.

 

A man and/or a woman can have an orgasm and still feel the 'lovemaking' or sex was unsatisfying.

 

Perhaps for men having an orgasm is enough and that is why they are showing up. However, every woman I've ever spoken to... and include me in the bunch... don't generally feel that way.

 

You are trying to understand female sexuality from a male point of view. You cannot process how or why she isn't chasing the orgasm. She is chasing intimacy... I promise you... she is chasing the feelings of your passion, your interest in satisfying her. Your desire for her. That is the way it is.

[giotto]

When you stop chasing your orgasm and start chasing her, perhaps she will become interested.

 

I cannot help but observe that many of the men posting share a similar point of view concerning the obligatory sex to service a man in marriage. As repugnant and dehumanizing this sounds to me, this is clearly an issue between you and the woman who you are married to... and not my burden.

 

However, it seems many of the guys are chasing the orgasm. Desire for sex = getting off. Want to get off = sex.

 

Now, you are wondering why a woman doesn't chase the orgasm like a man? I suppose some do, however they are not in the majority and probably not married and/or not married to the man they are chasing it with.

 

Women chase the experience. Don't get me wrong, a happy ending is fabulous but that is not why I show up. I'm there for the totality of the experience. All of it. Feeling the desire the man has for ME. Not himself.

 

A man and/or a woman can have an orgasm and still feel the 'lovemaking' or sex was unsatisfying.

 

Perhaps for men having an orgasm is enough and that is why they are showing up. However, every woman I've ever spoken to... and include me in the bunch... don't generally feel that way.

 

You are trying to understand female sexuality from a male point of view. You cannot process how or why she isn't chasing the orgasm. She is chasing intimacy... I promise you... she is chasing the feelings of your passion, your interest in satisfying her. Your desire for her. That is the way it is.

 

I don't know whether you have children or a busy life, but in a family with children it's normal that the original couple dynamics will change. Yes, we (men) don't have to chase anymore, but we woulldn't have the time to do it. We are busy, as our wives are. So, you want us men to find the time for courtship and the "experience"? Sorry, this is not possible, because the couple synergies have changed. We are married, with a demanding job, with children (sometimes lots of them), house chores, etc. If someone told me before I got married that family life would change everything in our couple relationship, I would have never married. Women have children and go in mummy mode forever. I agree that having to have sex when you've lost your desire for the other spouse is dehumanizing, but all this bull**** about "lovemaking" is absurd. We too want intimacy, connection, and sex contributes in creating and sustaining that connection. We don't just want an orgasm. Are we are back to the Neanderthal theme here?

 

We men have to understand women, but women don't have to understand us men? Women don't have to understand the family dynamics? We don't chase or show our passion anymore because it's not like it was when we started dating. All you are doing is simplyfing a very complex matter, where the onus is all on men. Relationships change according to how the family evolves, but it's only us men that have to adjust? Marriage should come with a warning: careful, if you stop behaving like a prince on a white horse, your wife will go off you. Forever.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

When you stop chasing your orgasm and start chasing her, perhaps she will become interested.

 

I cannot help but observe that many of the men posting share a similar point of view concerning the obligatory sex to service a man in marriage. As repugnant and dehumanizing this sounds to me, this is clearly an issue between you and the woman who you are married to... and not my burden.

 

However, it seems many of the guys are chasing the orgasm. Desire for sex = getting off. Want to get off = sex.

 

Now, you are wondering why a woman doesn't chase the orgasm like a man? I suppose some do, however they are not in the majority and probably not married and/or not married to the man they are chasing it with.

 

Women chase the experience. Don't get me wrong, a happy ending is fabulous but that is not why I show up. I'm there for the totality of the experience. All of it. Feeling the desire the man has for ME. Not himself.

 

A man and/or a woman can have an orgasm and still feel the 'lovemaking' or sex was unsatisfying.

 

Perhaps for men having an orgasm is enough and that is why they are showing up. However, every woman I've ever spoken to... and include me in the bunch... don't generally feel that way.

 

You are trying to understand female sexuality from a male point of view. You cannot process how or why she isn't chasing the orgasm. She is chasing intimacy... I promise you... she is chasing the feelings of your passion, your interest in satisfying her. Your desire for her. That is the way it is.

 

 

Again you are projecting your baseless views on us and ignoring yet again the OP, which points to good/excellent marriages, that lack in the bedroom. These are marriages that have everything you say men need to do to make a happy good life/partnership. These are situations when where when they discuss it with their spouses they are assured the sex works, which means orgasms. An orgasm is a direct finite result, like a goal in hockey, a TD in football, a HR in Baseball. Intimacy is defined and can be different for many. So yet again you throw a curveball to us males and confuse even further.

 

I'll let you in on something too. Not all of men's oragsms are earthshattering either. But they are never bad.....

 

I also am lost about the comment "chasing the experience" and how it refers to the issues in the OP? How is this done with the everyday life of work, kids, house, cleaning, cooking, sleep..... You are really pushing it, if you expect us to pull out some magic trick to produce some special experience.

 

And what about the woman's responsibility in all this? Oh yea, you seem to have forgotten this. PS there are a few posts from women with the same problem, and I just shake my head wondering what their spouses problem is, as it is just that simple for us men to throw the male not having available sex under the bus, because we are that simple:D.

 

So Gamine I have referred to Dan Savage in post 78.... Let's have your comments on that. Just curious how you view that and marriage in general.

[Gamine]

I don't know whether you have children or a busy life, but in a family with children it's normal that the original couple dynamics will change. Yes, we (men) don't have to chase anymore, but we woulldn't have the time to do it. We are busy, as our wives are. So, you want us men to find the time for courtship and the "experience"? Sorry, this is not possible, because the couple synergies have changed. We are married, with a demanding job, with children (sometimes lots of them), house chores, etc. If someone told me before I got married that family life would change everything in our couple relationship, I would have never married. Women have children and go in mummy mode forever. I agree that having to have sex when you've lost your desire for the other spouse is dehumanizing, but all this bull**** about "lovemaking" is absurd. We too want intimacy, connection, and sex contributes in creating and sustaining that connection. We don't just want an orgasm. Are we are back to the Neanderthal theme here?

 

We men have to understand women, but women don't have to understand us men? Women don't have to understand the family dynamics? We don't chase or show our passion anymore because it's not like it was when we started dating. All you are doing is simplyfing a very complex matter, where the onus is all on men. Relationships change according to how the family evolves, but it's only us men that have to adjust? Marriage should come with a warning: careful, if you stop behaving like a prince on a white horse, your wife will go off you. Forever.

 

Yes, perhaps marriage should come with that warning for men and if heeded, they would be the beneficiaries of truly rewarding unlimited sexual pleasure from their mates for the rest of their lifetime.

 

Gentlemen, you want the answer but then you don't want to hear the answer. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

You can argue that it is unfair to have to make love to your wife when you have already done the hard work to get her to marry you, that you don't have the time to dedicate to being a sensitive and fulfilling lover for her, and that you are entitled to 'do your thing' and that she should enjoy, be starved for it, and almost not able to control her passion for you.... You can argue that you 'shouldn't' pleasure your wife the way she needs... all you want. Then, the female looks at you, grows weary of you being the beneficiary of the pleasure you desire and she sits there scratching her head wondering how sex could have become so one sided.

 

Hey, I am not alone in the what I am telling you. Read the posts by the other women. Deal with the reality of it and change your outcome... or, by all means, continue what you are dong and complain the rest of your life about how unfair it is that you have to make love to your wife instead of just getting off according to your own timeline.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Yes, perhaps marriage should come with that warning for men and if heeded, they would be the beneficiaries of truly rewarding unlimited sexual pleasure from their mates for the rest of their lifetime.

 

Gentlemen, you want the answer but then you don't want to hear the answer. Don't shoot the messenger.

 

You can argue that it is unfair to have to make love to your wife when you have already done the hard work to get her to marry you, that you don't have the time to dedicate to being a sensitive and fulfilling lover for her, and that you are entitled to 'do your thing' and that she should enjoy, be starved for it, and almost not able to control her passion for you.... You can argue that you 'shouldn't' pleasure your wife the way she needs... all you want. Then, the female looks at you, grows weary of you being the beneficiary of the pleasure you desire and she sits there scratching her head wondering how sex could have become so one sided.

 

Hey, I am not alone in the what I am telling you. Read the posts by the other women. Deal with the reality of it and change your outcome... or, by all means, continue what you are dong and complain the rest of your life about how unfair it is that you have to make love to your wife instead of just getting off according to your own timeline.

 

 

I swear you haven't read a word Giotto or I have written or read the OP. You just go off on your soap box and tell us we are screwing up..... Who said that once married we have completed the "hard work"? Where do you get it that we stopped "working" (your words) once married? When we say that our spouses enjoy sex (measuring stick being an orgasm) and you say that we are the beneficiary and that sex is one-sided? Hell we are the one's asking and saying we want the closeness and that includes sex....

 

I give up Gamine, because you just don't get it (though I am sure you'll say the same to me and every male who has posted about this topic in numerous threads).

 

I read Giotto in another post saying his wife screams in delight when they have sex.... I don't know if it is because he is such a great lover or because she just likes sex that much (or a great actress), but trust me, anything that I enjoy I want more of or at least a steady diet of. Explain again how stoopid men are not being able to read that signal???

[Gamine]

Again you are projecting your baseless views on us and ignoring yet again the OP, which points to good/excellent marriages, that lack in the bedroom. These are marriages that have everything you say men need to do to make a happy good life/partnership. These are situations when where when they discuss it with their spouses they are assured the sex works, which means orgasms. An orgasm is a direct finite result, like a goal in hockey, a TD in football, a HR in Baseball. Intimacy is defined and can be different for many. So yet again you throw a curveball to us males and confuse even further.

 

I'll let you in on something too. Not all of men's oragsms are earthshattering either. But they are never bad.....

 

I also am lost about the comment "chasing the experience" and how it refers to the issues in the OP? How is this done with the everyday life of work, kids, house, cleaning, cooking, sleep..... You are really pushing it, if you expect us to pull out some magic trick to produce some special experience.

 

And what about the woman's responsibility in all this? Oh yea, you seem to have forgotten this. PS there are a few posts from women with the same problem, and I just shake my head wondering what their spouses problem is, as it is just that simple for us men to throw the male not having available sex under the bus, because we are that simple:D.

 

So Gamine I have referred to Dan Savage in post 78.... Let's have your comments on that. Just curious how you view that and marriage in general.

 

The Dan Savage take on marriage and sex is such crap that it enrages me to even consider that anyone would consider that one takes over ownership and entry rights to another person's body by virtue of a marriage contract. You have qualified that Mr. Savage is a gay man married to another man and that the TWO MEN agree this is a fabulous idea. Good for them and... it comes as absolutely NO SURPRISE that TWO MEN are in agreement on that issue.

 

Having said that, this is how I see marriage.

 

Two people who love one another and promise to be each other's champions. My husband and I were the most amazing lovers before we got married. The first time we were together he blew my mind and I never knew I could feel so totally free and uninhibited with any man. I wanted him all of the time... I couldn't keep my hands off of him. Weekends, I stayed in bed making love to him all day. I wondered... if it is this great between us now... I wonder how mind blowing it will become after we are together for years and years.... I was so happy.

 

I was so close to him. I totally loved that he wanted me too. Wow, this was a once in a lifetime feeling and I wanted it forever.

 

Then we get married and the quickies we enjoyed prior to marriage became more often. Then intercourse became the totality of the sex between us. Sometimes he didn't even kiss me.

 

Sometimes he did kiss me, but it was just long enough to turn me on so that he could HAVE SEX with me. And, yes, he would... on occasion see to it that it had my obligatory orgasm. He would not allow me to initiate sex and refused me at every turn. I went without sex for months on end. Year after year. And when Mr. Happy showed up it was all about HIM.

 

If you were to ask my husband how he views sex between a man and a woman you'd hear this big account of how a guy should MAKE LOVE to her yadda, yadda, yadda. But in reality, a man wants to have an orgasm and in my experience with my husband as a wife... everything revolves around that. It doesn't revolve around me because what I need isn't being addressed whatsoever. Even if I had a 'happy ending' it didn't go the way I wanted it to... the whole intimacy thing... it went his way and he felt he did his job by "MAKING ME COME". When all I felt was pissed off.

 

So resentment sets in. Now after having sex with the same insensitive man who is chasing the orgasm for 14 years day in and day out... well I have little sympathy for the males who believe they are entitled to not see the woman in their life as a true partner in the bedroom.

 

I would appreciate it if you would please listen... at least be open minded... just because she has an orgasm does not mean that she got what she wanted out of sex.

 

I did some reading and educating myself about how other women feel. And guess what? What I have accounted is very common. Over time women can become resentful, then view it as a chore, wait in silence for him to hurry up and get it over with, and have the orgasm he insists she have. But, if sex is supposed to be mutually gratifying each gender MUST respect the other's needs OBJECTIVELY and SUBJECTIVELY. A woman can have an orgasm by herself but it's lonely.... A woman can have an orgasm with her partner and it can still be lonely.

 

I have shared with you my information with total candor. You can continue to fight with me over how unfair it is that a marriage contract should entitle you to have sex THE WAY YOU SEE IT all you want and that your partner should be willing to go along with it according to some schedule.

 

Or, you can have a woman who desires you, can't keep her hands off of you and devours you.

 

When I share this with the men in this forum... one would think you'd be... GREAT!!! Now, I am getting a better understanding from the points of view of the WOMEN here on perhaps ways I can make things really improve! Alright!!!!!

 

But that is not what happens here. You continue to harp on the same point over and over and even if the women here bare all .... explain all... you say.. Nope... I think I shouldn't have to make love to her... My marriage contract should entitle me to enjoy myself with unlimited access whenever I need and/or a minimum of 2x per week with rest periods in between.

 

Come on, fellas. Are you guys really hearing yourselves?

[GorillaTheater]

He would not allow me to initiate sex and refused me at every turn.

 

I'm not discounting your points about female resentment; there's no doubt in my mind that resentment is sometimes, maybe even often, a significant factor. But, in my opinion, your situation, as cited above, is very very different from the experience of most (if not all) of the men here, who would LOVE it if their wives showed any indication of passion and desire. As you may understand from your own experience, not feeling desired, to be constantly rejected, is one of the most "un-manning" things a man can experience.

[Gamine]

I swear you haven't read a word Giotto or I have written or read the OP. You just go off on your soap box and tell us we are screwing up..... Who said that once married we have completed the "hard work"? Where do you get it that we stopped "working" (your words) once married? When we say that our spouses enjoy sex (measuring stick being an orgasm) and you say that we are the beneficiary and that sex is one-sided? Hell we are the one's asking and saying we want the closeness and that includes sex....

 

I give up Gamine, because you just don't get it (though I am sure you'll say the same to me and every male who has posted about this topic in numerous threads).

 

I read Giotto in another post saying his wife screams in delight when they have sex.... I don't know if it is because he is such a great lover or because she just likes sex that much (or a great actress), but trust me, anything that I enjoy I want more of or at least a steady diet of. Explain again how stoopid men are not being able to read that signal???

 

Precisely. Anything that you enjoy...TRULY ENJOY... you'd want a steady diet of.

 

So what, prey tell, does it mean when SHE DOESN'T? Perhaps, just maybe, SHE ISN'T.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Precisely. Anything that you enjoy...TRULY ENJOY... you'd want a steady diet of.

 

So what, prey tell, does it mean when SHE DOESN'T? Perhaps, just maybe, SHE ISN'T.

 

 

Well I am not alone as many (mostly) men have said the same thing. So when the spouse tells you they are enjoying sex, do orgasm, they are lying to you.

 

Men you have duly been warned.....

[giotto]

 

Come on, fellas. Are you guys really hearing yourselves?

 

you are projecting/universalising your situation. Your man behaved like a pig and therefore all men are pigs, just looking for release. I can assure you: we are not! I was expecting more from you!

 

BTW, TDP, my wife screams every time because I'm an Italian stallion!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

you are projecting/universalising your situation. Your man behaved like a pig and therefore all men are pigs, just looking for release. I can assure you: we are not! I was expecting more from you!

 

BTW, TDP, my wife screams every time because I'm an Italian stallion!

 

Gamine, thanks for the candor.

 

Giotto - How about a book detailing those techniques..... We know it won't result in more sex, but at least the quality will be there....

[Alma Mobley]

Actually, Gamine's situation sounds all too typical.

 

I can't relate to it, as I am not there yet. I only recently got married, but I can see her point.

 

I don't know how this discussion turned into dishes (though there is a study out there that claims that men who help with house work get more nookie -- I will look that one up). But, I think you should listen to her just the same. I think the biggest problem is feeling taking for granted, male or female.

 

It gets harder to have a good sex life after the kids come, and it's something that needs to be worked on by both parties to keep it fresh and interesting. Gosh, I have a book about that. I think it's called "Lube Jobs."

[applecake]

I am wondering have I got it all wrong or am I the only woman who gets it (as in what is trying to be said)

 

Look Any woman who just gives up is wrong and selfish. Men want intimacy just as women do.

Everybody at some stage married or not wants the "release" they are called quickies.

 

Women have a right to stop themselves from being the mammy and being in the mammy mode as someone said.

 

I get really cross and forgive me if I insult women her but I am a woman so there is nothing sexist in this. Stop with the track suits and the bad hair.

We are the first to scream because our men look at other women but as humans we are shallow even if we don't admit it.

We demand that our Husbands find us attractive yet some not all woman live in tracksuits. I see it on my school run every morning. I hear the same thing every day. God where do you get the time to dress up. it takes the same amount of time for me to put on a dress or whatever as it does to put on a tracksuit.

 

I have gone off sex at the moment but I am fighting it, looking for reason. i refuse to become sexless or to have infrequent sex.

Forget my husband for a moment. I want to be swing of chandeliers when I am 100.

Damn it it is free, it is fun, it burns calories. It is the one thing you share with your H that nobody else gets to have.

It builds the closeness.

It put a big smile on your face and if it is extra indulgent and fun it gives you and him that private joke, that smirk across a room full of people, that wink. That giggle as he whispers in your ear Wow.

 

If we work on the sexual side of our marriage then we have happy husbands as well as that warm fuzzy feeling.

We owe it to each other to take into account each others needs.

 

Woman complain they are too tired. Well if you have an extra pair of hands to help you around the house and with the kids then surely we aren't as tired and we should use that saved energy to be a lover.

 

I say this all the time. Our kids are going to grow up and leave us. Have their own families. What happens then? If the marriage hasn't been nurtured with everything not just sex then what are you going to do.

 

I have 4 kids, We made love just as much during their young days just as much as we did before they were in our lives.

 

I crave the affection, Too tired to go out so go to bed early. Do a night feed and spend 15minutes making out.

Trust me it recharged the batteries kept the depression at bay and made me want to keep my H interested.

 

I am scared to bits that my libido won't come back.

I Find the selfishness here and the dogging on the men ridiculous. Women have been shouting for years to be recognised as sexual beings and then we decide we have had enough.

 

My parents are in their 60s living like teenagers. I grew up in a house where my mum always made the effort to look good and my dad did everything with her as well as work his socks off. They we at times selfish towards us so as to make time with each other. We would be sent out of the room so they could be on their own.

I heard my mum laugh so much at all the daft things my dad did to just get that laugh. They showed constant affection. We all knew not to walk into their room without knocking.

 

I learnt from them. We teach our kids how a relationship should work by how we behave.

 

I was asked how does my H deal with my lack of libido. He is secure in the knowledge that I will do what it takes. He is worried that I may have a health problem. He isn't grunting at me like a horny dog because he can deal with it in the knowledge that I want it to change.

 

I cannot make love at all when I am pregnant. He never once complained. as soon as that baby was born I was raring to go. I guess he just feels this will pass.

Women owe it to themselves to not give up.

If it is a drive imbalance he wants it 10 times a day and she is happy with twice a week. I would be telling the man to get a grip literally and her to make those 2 times a week mighty blow his head off nights.

 

My sex life is far from perfect at the moment and I am scared but man i totally do my best for both of our sakes because seeing him bathe in the after glow is an ego boost and makes me feel feminine and powerful.

 

Hope I didn't upset too many people.

[angie2443]

applecake, could it be that your husband gives you what many other women on here are not getting?

 

Both me and my husband are doing fine with our sex life. It has never been an issue for us. At the same time, we had a problem early in our relationship where I was bieng taken for granted and my husband wasn't pulling his weight around the house and in other areas. I had to work hard to make him see that I was his equal and that I wasn't there to cater to his every nee. He stepped up to the plate and we are fine now. However, I can see where the resentment would have kept building if it was always me pulling all the weight in the relationship. Eventually, I would have fallen out of love.

 

A relationship requires two people to make it work. Both partners have to meet each other's needs rather that be romance or sex or whatever (as long as the needs are reasonable). When one partner is putting everything in and the other partner isn't, the relationship will fall apart.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

applecake, could it be that your husband gives you what many other women on here are not getting?

 

Both me and my husband are doing fine with our sex life. It has never been an issue for us. At the same time, we had a problem early in our relationship where I was bieng taken for granted and my husband wasn't pulling his weight around the house and in other areas. I had to work hard to make him see that I was his equal and that I wasn't there to cater to his every nee. He stepped up to the plate and we are fine now. However, I can see where the resentment would have kept building if it was always me pulling all the weight in the relationship. Eventually, I would have fallen out of love.

 

A relationship requires two people to make it work. Both partners have to meet each other's needs rather that be romance or sex or whatever (as long as the needs are reasonable). When one partner is putting everything in and the other partner isn't, the relationship will fall apart.[/quote

 

 

Angie2443, you maybe right, that the women attacking (harsh use of words) the OP and males are one's whose H's are not giving them what they want or vice versa. That however was not the intent of the OP. Then Angie2443 and your case may have been 100% his fault, you say your Husband was to blame early in your life for problems. Sorry this is telling and lies at the heart of the issue of the so-called "blame game"....

 

Applecake, I found your thread (the one you started) very topical. I am amazed at the amount you do and that you recognize and are scared as to your situation. My spouse also has those feelings. I don't think however she is concerned by it or considers it a "problem". Let me tell you too, I do not care if my spouse is in a track suit or dishevelled as she looks great to me always..... That is not the problem as many men will attest too.

[angie2443]

Angie2443, you maybe right, that the women attacking (harsh use of words) the OP and males are one's whose H's are not giving them what they want or vice versa. That however was not the intent of the OP. Then Angie2443 and your case may have been 100% his fault, you say your Husband was to blame early in your life for problems. Sorry this is telling and lies at the heart of the issue of the so-called "blame game"....

 

 

You have to understand, that when I was writing this, I was responding to this thread and there is a lot to my husband's and mine relationship that I'm leaving out. I certainly don't mean to give the impression that I blame my husband 100% for all the problems that ever came up in our relationship. I was thinking specifically of house work and the idea that women owed men sex if he did the dishes. I know this was never stated out right, but it is the impression I get. My husband never had to do dishes for sex, but when when we first married and I took on the title of wife, he soon expected me to do all the housework. I had to fight to get him to do his share and so that is why these threads anger me. As for my part in it, I shouldn't have been so passive about the issue when it first occured.

[applecake]

I am in my tracksuit ends covered in paint or mud depending on that days jobs. What I was referring to was the post where someone said about the mum mode etc.

When we get into that mode everything turns into dull and boring and life is concentrated on our kids (which don't get me wrong my every move is for my kids to be happy but in that is my eldest kid my husband)

When we get into that rut we feel it. It is obvious when I am taking a kicking in life I get down and it shows in how i present myself then on day three I get a glimpse of the bag lady and throw on a bit of lippy or a nice out fit and I feel lifted.

It might only be a tiny lift but it helps. I also love seeing the raised eye of my husband. however one of his biggest flaws is he hardly ever pays a compliment. It usually comes from a male friend and all female friends. That is one issue I have. I tell him all the time he is HOT:love:

or he looks great.

He is getting better but too late I can see him reminding himself to say it. Never mind we won't divorce over it. At least I still can't bend over safely in his company:p.

Todamnpragmatic, I am far from the perfect wife. I am however going to hand kill a rhino and grind its horn (excuse the pun) myself if that is the cure.

I am not ready to die yet.

Sex is definitely not the be all and end all of a marriage but wow there is so many things that we do everyday that are boring. Life is tough. Being sexual and making love is like a sanctuary. To be held and caressed and touched, to form that emotional cocoon with the one you love makes the world disappear, makes me feel safe, warm and the fact that it is me, my body, my mind, my touch, my noises that make him want to stay with me and to not leave me and I am the one that makes him feel amazing, loved and powerful.

I don't want to lose that. I don't want to be his friend, I want him every bit of him and I want to feel it all with him.

There is a huge difference having sex with just anyone and having sex with your partner. The feelings are worlds apart. Having sex with the one you love is beyond words.

Men in my opinion get as much from the experience as women do. It is about the intimacy and of course the ending is important it is the icing on the cake.

Woman get the G spots injected so as to have orgasms so it is as important.

I have no issue with making your man chase you and want you. Hey what fun. I think we need to as woman remember that there is a sexual side to us and we owe it to ourselves and our husbands to explore it and enjoy it.

Can I say again it is one luxury in life that is free.

[taylor]

I have no problem with this... as long as what you expect in return is clearly spelled out :IE" Honey, I'll give you a foot massage if you'll blow me afterwards" or "Dear, I'll stay home instead of going out with the boys if you'll let me do you anally" or "Sweetie, I'll buy you a really nice birthday gift but I'll be expecting you to fsck and suck for a few hours to show me appreciation"

 

I suspect what many women are objecting to here is not that you want sex, but rather that you do something that on the surface seems done out of love but that really is a gift that comes with a price tag attached.. spell your price out BEFORE extending yourself with any extra effort.

 

I guess another way to put it is like this:

 

Men often want sex with no strings attached.

 

Women often want a nice dinner, help with the dishes, or the kids bathed with no strings attached.

[taylor]

Women chase the experience. Don't get me wrong, a happy ending is fabulous but that is not why I show up. I'm there for the totality of the experience. All of it. Feeling the desire the man has for ME. Not himself.

 

A man and/or a woman can have an orgasm and still feel the 'lovemaking' or sex was unsatisfying.

 

Perhaps for men having an orgasm is enough and that is why they are showing up. However, every woman I've ever spoken to... and include me in the bunch... don't generally feel that way.

 

You are trying to understand female sexuality from a male point of view. You cannot process how or why she isn't chasing the orgasm. She is chasing intimacy... I promise you... she is chasing the feelings of your passion, your interest in satisfying her. Your desire for her. That is the way it is.

 

Very good post on a woman's view of sexuality.

 

From my own experience:

 

My husband and I made love all the time..sometimes 4 or 5 times a day...didn't even bother coming up for air. We would go all day without eating..heck, we didn't even want to get out of bed to go to the bathroom.

 

And when we finally did have to get up...part ways and go to work...what lingered with me was the look in his eyes, the way he held me in his arms, the soft, loving words he spoke in my ear, his warm breath on my neck, his smell, and the desire I could feel in every fiber of his body. It wasn't the orgasm.

 

Lovemaking changed when the kids came and schedules got busier and started taking over in terms of priority. The mommy mode kicked in. Fatigue set in. I stopped feeling sexual. It happens...when you spend all day talking baby talk, changing poo diapers and wiping up snot and puke. It's easy for a woman to stop being in that sexual frame of mind. Other things demand her attention and before you know it she is so far off course sexually that she doesn't even realize it.

 

At the same time, my husband pushed for sex...not lovemaking...SEX. When we did have sex it wasn't love and romance, burning desire and passion. It became more sordid: Hey baby, show me what you got. I want some of that. Come here so I can F you.

 

Sorry, but that just turned me off. I longed for the way it used to be...the intimacy. I could still have sex with him. I could still orgasm. But it wasn't the same. It was missing something.

 

As I lost interest in sex...at least the kind I wanted...I poured myself into my kids and he poured himself into his job.

 

It reached the point where sex amounted to what I called "Saturday morning rollover sex" where he would roll over and start feeling me up even before he had opened his eyes and while I was still in dreamland. The deed would be done just about the time I became fully awake.

 

And the other kind of sex we had was the midnight call, where I would go to bed and he would wake me up an hour or two later when he came to bed to have a quickie.

 

The lack of intimacy was quite lonely, despite the orgasms.

 

And then, after a few years of this, I just started telling him not to wake me up. It wasn't worth it.

 

I didn't feel that passion...that desire again...until I saw it in the eyes of the OM I got involved with.

 

It's the desire..the passion..the lovemaking a woman longs for...not the orgasm.

[applecake]

You are absolutely right.

 

I do think that men miss the intimacy too.

 

The problem with every long term marriage at some point is that, the rut. Making love just because you are in the bed. No fun before hand. Lovemaking in my opinion starts hours, days if you are really lucky, before the act of sex.

I guess, I am talking about what most of the men are saying on here, that they are trying everything and they are getting nothing in return.

 

We all have to accept that life gets hectic and things get in the way. You were willing to make love but through everything life was throwing at you, your H got into the mode of taking what he could get and forgot about the fun side, the intimacy side etc.

 

Someone I am very close to admits she enjoys sex, her husband is more than willing, he will do anything but, she really just can't be bothered. Their children are all in their late teens, they live in a massive house no fear of being heard. She said they fight about it constantly. She will go weeks without.

I spoke to her about it and she said it is a pattern they got into.

 

I find this attitude selfish and believe and have told her so, she really needs to sort it out.

[Alma Mobley]

Hmm, is it the kids then?

[taylor]

Hmm, is it the kids then?

 

I can't speak for all women, but I know in my case, having children did play a huge role in changing the dynamics of sex.

 

Yes, fatigue plays a part. But the physical demands of mothering don't tell the whole story.

 

I think when women become mothers, that maternal instinct to nurture and care for offspring is so great that it overshadows every other biological function. The mommy gene can't be underestimated. It is very powerful.

 

The satisfaction that comes from nurturing a helpless infant/child can be far greater for a woman than the pleasure she receives from sex....when she is in the mommy mode.

 

I have seen hot young women with toned bodies and manicured nails turn into matronly, frumpy women overnight after having kids. They trade in the mini-skirts, skimpy tank-tops, and perfectly curled hair for sweat pants and pony tails. They shop for formula and kool-aid instead of perfume and body lotion.

 

Because of this, women undermine their own sexual identities. And when women no longer FEEL SEXY, they stop wanting sex.

 

It's frustrating for men because they don't go thru this same transformation that women do once kids are on the scene. They retain their sexuality and are left scratching their heads wondering where their sexy wives went.

 

And it's very hard for men to compete with the mommy gene.