Not enough esx in marriage..... Here we go again....

[a4a]

Good for you...... Okay so again the checklist.....

 

Chores

Dishes

Children's activities

Presents

Love notes

Massages

Greet with Wine

Rub Feet

Communicate

Attentive

Stud in bed

Orgasms

 

 

Everyone is different..... There is no magic pill. I was again going back to why I did the OP and the sadness of some who have posted. Giotto, I empathize with you and understand where many make compromises or "settle".

 

I also know that counseling often does not help, and that the fire is not as strong after 5/10/15/20+ years.....

 

I was just bothered by someone telling me (us) that doing chores, alleviating the work/stress many women feel was meritless....

 

It is meritless in my view. Those are normal things that both people should do without expecting a gold star on their marriage chart.

 

(12 gold stars = blow job)

 

Perhaps in a unequal relationship those are considered going above and beyond the normal expectations.

 

"Honey you didn't get drunk and beat me this week so I wanna give you some lovin' "...... that action or non action is not gold star worthy either.

 

Maybe going beyond the norm does earn extra BJ points.

 

Surprise dinner out.

A gift for no reason.

 

But doing dishes and laundry that you ate off and washing your own socks is not beyond the norm.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

It is meritless in my view. Those are normal things that both people should do without expecting a gold star on their marriage chart.

 

(12 gold stars = blow job)

 

Perhaps in a unequal relationship those are considered going above and beyond the normal expectations.

 

"Honey you didn't get drunk and beat me this week so I wanna give you some lovin' "...... that action or non action is not gold star worthy either.

 

Maybe going beyond the norm does earn extra BJ points.

 

Surprise dinner out.

A gift for no reason.

 

But doing dishes and laundry that you ate off and washing your own socks is not beyond the norm.

 

I am talking in generalities and how "men" view things. Men are the one's, by and large, told by spouses that they are too harried, frazzled and tired to think or much less want sex.

 

Of course we are responsible for all the things mentioned above. But then what about the "stay at home" mother? If the spouse comes home and does those things, is he "rewarded" or get a gold star;)?

 

If we both contribute 50% to the household, should there be an issue?

 

I have let you in on a secret, that we men have checklists, that are much different than a woman (if they do have one).

 

No man will ever say no to sex, because their spouse hasn't done the dishes or the laundry or that we (the male) is too tired because of all the dishes and laundry we just did . Women will use this as a part of the bigger problem as to why they are not interested in sex. This is by and large a female trait.

 

Again go back to the OP and what I was mad at (scrunchy's comments).

 

My tongue was firmly planted in cheek with the list, but males by and large have them......

[angie2443]

Of course we are responsible for all the things mentioned above. But then what about the "stay at home" mother? If the spouse comes home and does those things, is he "rewarded" or get a gold star;)?

.

 

I am a stay at home mom and find this very offensive. House work and child care are not like 9 to 5 jobs. They are never ending responsibilities. I take care of them when my husband is at work, but when he comes home he is just as responsible for them as I.

 

I think you need to stop equating cleaning with sex. They really have nothing to do with each other. Once you do this, you'll find why you aren't getting what you want at home.

[soserious1]

More often we wonder where it went. If it was not there to begin with, then you know what you bought in to. Yes it may wane over time, but for it to disappear is unacceptable if the spouses have a loving relationship and maintained their attractiveness (age not withstanding).

 

In the posts I referenced the spouse did orgasm and enjoyed sex. I'm sorry to tell you that is what men measure. Does the spouse have an orgasm. If she does then she is enjoying sex and they should be having it....

 

There have been women who too have posted that their spouse is no longer interested in sex. Would anyone ever post a reply that says "you cannot brow beat, guilt trip or bully somebody into feeling physical lust for you"? No way.

 

 

Not good enough to say they are not interested.

 

 

Actually when I've posted about my sexual difficulties I've been asked questions about how much I weigh and exercise, asked what things I did/didn't do to "spice" things up, did I nag or pressure my ex? In the end what it came down to that for whatever reason, he just flat out didn't desire me physically anymore. All the pissing, moaning and fit throwing in the world

wasn't going to change that dynamic, nor was buying him presents or doing extra chores, he wasn't going to "reward" me with sex, hot on the half shell.

 

Fact of the matter is, the partner with the lower desire controls the sex within a relationship, unless you're into spousal rape. In a good marriage there will be some compromise in terms of frequency but if you cannot agree or if like a lot of guys you''re offended by scheduled sex and view it as some sort of insult you're basically left with the same 2 choices I had.

 

 

decide if you can live within a marriage that isn't satisfying to you sexually

or decide to divorce in hopes of meeting someone more compatible with you in terms of sex drive.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I am a stay at home mom and find this very offensive. House work and child care are not like 9 to 5 jobs. They are never ending responsibilities. I take care of them when my husband is at work, but when he comes home he is just as responsible for them as I.

 

I think you need to stop equating cleaning with sex. They really have nothing to do with each other. Once you do this, you'll find why you aren't getting what you want at home.

 

No I do not equate cleaning with sex. It is part of the larger issue and if you don't understand that it is only part of the issue then I am sorry.

 

I will never question the value of a stay at home mother, if you don't question the spouse who brings home the paycheque.

[a4a]

I am talking in generalities and how "men" view things. Men are the one's, by and large, told by spouses that they are too harried, frazzled and tired to think or much less want sex.

 

Of course we are responsible for all the things mentioned above. But then what about the "stay at home" mother? If the spouse comes home and does those things, is he "rewarded" or get a gold star;)?

 

If we both contribute 50% to the household, should there be an issue?

 

I have let you in on a secret, that we men have checklists, that are much different than a woman (if they do have one).

 

No man will ever say no to sex, because their spouse hasn't done the dishes or the laundry or that we (the male) is too tired because of all the dishes and laundry we just did . Women will use this as a part of the bigger problem as to why they are not interested in sex. This is by and large a female trait.

 

Again go back to the OP and what I was mad at (scrunchy's comments).

 

My tongue was firmly planted in cheek with the list, but males by and large have them......

 

 

Oh yes men say no to sex when they have other things to do..... like watch the game that is on.

 

And believe me I have been turned down for sex on numerous occassions because of every "mundane" excuse in the book.

 

I have a checklist

1. pants off

2. erection

 

ok ready for sex!

 

And no I am not a fat hog or ugly..... I have a PA husband that uses sex as a control tool.

 

However I have informed him if something fun and interesting comes along not to be shocked if I take the oppurtunity to enjoy it.

 

So I have total empathy with the sex starved man in a M.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Oh yes men say no to sex when they have other things to do..... like watch the game that is on.

 

And believe me I have been turned down for sex on numerous occassions because of every "mundane" excuse in the book.

 

I have a checklist

1. pants off

2. erection

 

ok ready for sex!

 

And no I am not a fat hog or ugly..... I have a PA husband that uses sex as a control tool.

 

However I have informed him if something fun and interesting comes along not to be shocked if I take the oppurtunity to enjoy it.

 

So I have total empathy with the sex starved man in a M.

 

Can I say good for you!!!! As a male I will say it..... He is an idiot

[giotto]

Actually when I've posted about my sexual difficulties I've been asked questions about how much I weigh and exercise, asked what things I did/didn't do to "spice" things up, did I nag or pressure my ex? In the end what it came down to that for whatever reason, he just flat out didn't desire me physically anymore. All the pissing, moaning and fit throwing in the world

wasn't going to change that dynamic, nor was buying him presents or doing extra chores, he wasn't going to "reward" me with sex, hot on the half shell.

 

Fact of the matter is, the partner with the lower desire controls the sex within a relationship, unless you're into spousal rape. In a good marriage there will be some compromise in terms of frequency but if you cannot agree or if like a lot of guys you''re offended by scheduled sex and view it as some sort of insult you're basically left with the same 2 choices I had.

 

 

decide if you can live within a marriage that isn't satisfying to you sexually

or decide to divorce in hopes of meeting someone more compatible with you in terms of sex drive.

 

I subscribe entirely to that. If you wife/husband doesn't want to have sex with you anymore (or not that often), you are in trouble and it's too late to fix. I've been there.

 

Returning to the original post, I think it all depends on how the wife sees the dynamics in the relationship. Some women might be turned off by the husband being too attentive/doing the dishes/looking after the kids, others will appreciate it. But it has nothing to do with sex. It goes deeper than that. It's the general picture. If you wife loves you and adores you, you can be a total bastard and it won't matter. At the end of the day, what counts is how the wife sees you, as a person.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I subscribe entirely to that. If you wife/husband doesn't want to have sex with you anymore (or not that often), you are in trouble and it's too late to fix. I've been there.

 

Returning to the original post, I think it all depends on how the wife sees the dynamics in the relationship. Some women might be turned off by the husband being too attentive/doing the dishes/looking after the kids, others will appreciate it. But it has nothing to do with sex. It goes deeper than that. It's the general picture. If you wife loves you and adores you, you can be a total bastard and it won't matter. At the end of the day, what counts is how the wife sees you, as a person.

 

You may be absolutely right and it is just sad, especially when you two have a family and divorce is a much more difficult option.

 

Is it not sad, that we probably all wish deep down for the wife you describe married to a complete bastard....

[giotto]

You may be absolutely right and it is just sad, especially when you two have a family and divorce is a much more difficult option.

 

Is it not sad, that we probably all wish deep down for the wife you describe married to a complete bastard....

 

yes, sometime I wish I behaved like a bastard... I think I'm a fairly nice guy, so that probably was my downfall...

 

But I don't blame my wife... you can't help falling out of love, I just wish she told me at the time, but she never wanted to destroy the family (I know this now). I've decided that I don't want to "destroy" the family either, so I'll stay for another 10 years (until the youngest is 18)... I'll make the most out of it and I'll try and stay happy and positive for the kids.

 

Going back to your argument, unfortunately, with women, sex is a much more cerebral thing, not as mechanic, so you really have to get it right, especially in a long term relationship. I didn't get it right...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

yes, sometime I wish I behaved like a bastard... I think I'm a fairly nice guy, so that probably was my downfall...

 

But I don't blame my wife... you can't help falling out of love, I just wish she told me at the time, but she never wanted to destroy the family (I know this now). I've decided that I don't want to "destroy" the family either, so I'll stay for another 10 years (until the youngest is 18)... I'll make the most out of it and I'll try and stay happy and positive for the kids.

 

Going back to your argument, unfortunately, with women, sex is a much more cerebral thing, not as mechanic, so you really have to get it right, especially in a long term relationship. I didn't get it right...

 

It is much easier to fall out of love then work at staying in love.... I do blame your wife, if you did what was necessary to maintain and foster a loving and nurturing relationship.

 

It is a cop out to say you fell out of love in many cases. I think they have this unrealistic, harlequinized view of love, lust, sex, passion and relationships, which makes what they have look boring, mundane and lacking.

 

You are way more magnanimous and forgiving then I am. I am very lucky when I think of my marriage (to this point) after 20+ years together.

[giotto]

I don't think I am that magnanimous... I have my faults, but I always tried to talk about our problems. Unfortunately, my wife always found it difficult to talk (past issues in her family), so I kind of gave up in the end. I used to get very upset about this sex thing and she wouldn't talk to me for days if I got angry about it. "You behave like that and you expect me to forget it in 5 minutes?", she used to say... it would take her weeks to recover from that. So, I stopped complaining...

 

But relationships are very complicated ina a family environment. I'm a very straightforward guy, my wife is a bottomless well of problems and issues... I think I could have spent 254 years trying to understand what's going on in her head and then fix it. So, I had to smile when the subject of washing the dishes was brought up... I wish it was as simple as that for me...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

I don't think I am that magnanimous... I have my faults, but I always tried to talk about our problems. Unfortunately, my wife always found it difficult to talk (past issues in her family), so I kind of gave up in the end. I used to get very upset about this sex thing and she wouldn't talk to me for days if I got angry about it. "You behave like that and you expect me to forget it in 5 minutes?", she used to say... it would take her weeks to recover from that. So, I stopped complaining...

 

But relationships are very complicated ina a family environment. I'm a very straightforward guy, my wife is a bottomless well of problems and issues... I think I could have spent 254 years trying to understand what's going on in her head and then fix it. So, I had to smile when the subject of washing the dishes was brought up... I wish it was as simple as that for me...

 

Yes my spouse and I always just say "you've got issues".... No it is not simple and I truly empathize with you. I just get frustrated how many seem to think it is a simple fix and get upset when I use "washing dishes" as a springboard to emphasize the point.

 

soserious, I am confused, you are female are you not? If so, what gifts did you buy to try and coerce your spouse to bed???? And what was his issues. I am really naive and don't understand why men don't want to have sex with an attractive woman?

[angie2443]

Yes my spouse and I always just say "you've got issues".... No it is not simple and I truly empathize with you. I just get frustrated how many seem to think it is a simple fix and get upset when I use "washing dishes" as a springboard to emphasize the point.

 

soserious, I am confused, you are female are you not? If so, what gifts did you buy to try and coerce your spouse to bed???? And what was his issues. I am really naive and don't understand why men don't want to have sex with an attractive woman?

 

You might want to look up her other posts to understand her story.

[Mr. Lucky]

I've decided that I don't want to "destroy" the family either, so I'll stay for another 10 years (until the youngest is 18)... I'll make the most out of it and I'll try and stay happy and positive for the kids.

You're a stronger man than I if you can hang in there under those conditions for 10 more years - don't think I could do it. I'm struck by the contradiction of saying about your wife that you "just wish she told me at the time", implying that, had you known, you might not have stayed in the marriage. And yet you're willing to stay for 10 more years under the same conditions? That's a tough one...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Toodamnpragmatic]

You might want to look up her other posts to understand her story.

 

Only 20 pages of posts to go through. From the few I did read, my heart goes out to her and what she went through.

 

I was sure she was a female, but the roles were so atypical, I had second thoughts.

 

I must ask if there were there children involved?

[angie2443]

Only 20 pages of posts to go through. From the few I did read, my heart goes out to her and what she went through.

 

I was sure she was a female, but the roles were so atypical, I had second thoughts.

 

I must ask if there were there children involved?

 

The children were grown I believe. My heart goes out to her and giotto also. It has to be rough putting so much in just to get nothing (or very little) in return.

[giotto]

I'm struck by the contradiction of saying about your wife that you "just wish she told me at the time", implying that, had you known, you might not have stayed in the marriage. And yet you're willing to stay for 10 more years under the same conditions? That's a tough one...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

yes, but we were much younger and we only had two children... Honestly, I think I would have gone then, but I'm in my late forties now, 4 children, 3 cats, a dog and a mortgage... much more difficult now. And I'm more mature and philosophical about life. It might seem a contradiction, but it isn't to me. Another 10 years? Well, maybe. I'll see how it goes. Life is tough and I never wanted a life like this. For some reason it just happened. I think I might be a bit spineless... Probably the reason why I've become a doormat and not loved... but I'm happy within myself at last and that's what counts...

[Mr. Lucky]

but I'm happy within myself at last and that's what counts...

I agree that's important . And I don't minimize the forces that, even without sex, keep you in the marriage. Someone here posted that sex is 5% of the marriage when it's working right and 95% when it isn't. I'll leave those calculations to those smarter than I...

 

Mr. Lucky

[giotto]

Someone here posted that sex is 5% of the marriage when it's working right and 95% when it isn't. I'll leave those calculations to those smarter than I...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

how true...

[Snowflower]

Life is tough and I never wanted a life like this. For some reason it just happened. I think I might be a bit spineless... Probably the reason why I've become a doormat and not loved... but I'm happy within myself at last and that's what counts...

 

giotto, my heart goes out to you. This is no way to live. Of course, this is only one side of the story...you wife will have a different perspective. But, it is still sad because life is short.

 

As hard as it is for me to admit this, my H felt similar to what you have described in your posts, giotto. He honestly thought I didn't love him and I have to admit that some of my behaviors, words and actions were less than loving over the years. It makes me so sad now that we couldn't communicate well with each other. We both operated under assumptions...I thought he would always be there for me no matter what I did and he thought that I didn't really give a d*** about our marriage.

 

The distance between us grew wider and wider over the years-although neither of us realized it. I finally did something that really hurt him (it was a bad decision on my part) and he reacted by having a severe lapse in judgement: a short affair.

 

I hope you and your wife don't reach this point, giotto because it is so painful for everyone. I'm not implying that you would do what my husband did. But, when people get lonely and detached enough in their marriages...things can happen.

 

Anyway, I feel for you because you are probably where my husband was a year ago. I wish I understood this then.

[giotto]

I have to thank everybody for the kind words and apologise for highjacking the thread... wasn't my intention.

 

I'm quite detached from the whole thing now. We just carry on for the sake of the family, have sex occasionally and so on... we have no physical contact anymore (apart from sex!). No kisses, no hugs, no cuddles. I just can't do it. I'm kind of scared of it. Don't want to get involved anymore, or try anything, or fix stuff. So, I've withdrawn that from our "relationship".

 

She said she would go to IC. That hasn't happened. She said we would have sex once a week, like clockwork. It's almost two weeks today. Every week, it gets longer. Not that I care anymore. I've given up. So, it's a sort of liberation for me. It's taken me 5 months to come to terms with it, but I'm peaceful inside now...

[jmsandmann]

i agree with scrunchy. im having same problem. i try to do as much as i can around the house to help out just to try atake some pressure off of my wife but in the sex dep. it does not seem to helping with freeing of time or making her mor interested

[Toodamnpragmatic]

i agree with scrunchy. im having same problem. i try to do as much as i can around the house to help out just to try atake some pressure off of my wife but in the sex dep. it does not seem to helping with freeing of time or making her mor interested

 

How do you agree with Scrunchy???? Time to stop helping, take the bull by the horns and demand sex?

 

I think people should read this post, as I am convinced this is more likely the case....

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t189616/

[Gamine]

I've read through most of these posts and frankly could not help becoming physically nauseated by it all.

 

I am glad that I never had the misfortune of reading this prior to getting married ... because I would have run.

 

Look fellas, once upon a time you have a woman who desired you. Then, seemingly magically, she no longer does. So, you buy her a gift, do chores, and say... okay baby let's go. Well, you haven't even figured out why she doesn't want to engage in SEX or LOVEMAKING or what on God's green earth you did to turn her off in the first place.

 

Yes, guys. It does work that way. Women get turned off and it does not necessarily mean there is no sexual desire. Just not, perhaps, for the person who she is turned off to. What I fail to understand is why there exists this Neanderthal concept concerning sex. A/K/A, I married her now she has to put out to satisfy me. That sounds as barbaric as a dude on a date who has bought dinner expecting sexual favors. Generally, this fella is the guy who 'gets' the least action. If you doubt this... ask any single girl.

 

And, no, I don't want to hear any more moronic crap about how sex is part of the deal. Go get a hooker. With sick attitudes like you've portrayed who the hell would want to?

 

There is some great 'mystery' concerning women and their sexual desire. Well, let me share with you a tidbit... There is a place you can touch a woman that will drive her wild with desire.

 

And, fellas, that is her heart.