Afraid to love me!

[Leveller]

I think the advice from both of you is well intentioned. I only flirted with the idea of texting him. I see no reason to do this, no good can come of it. I've gone NC again and will stick to it. However, what has ALWAYS happened is that she will get back in touch and I can't avoid seeing her or knowing what is going on from friends and family. I was much better for not seeing her. Last week was a set back but I was led to believe that we were back on. As I've said we talked openly about getting married, even to the point of deciding what type of ring she wanted and EVERYONE close to her (father, son and best friend) thought we were getting back together. Although I predicted this turn of events I am still at a loss what made her go in the opposite direction. I did get an explanation, in between the usual mind games BS, and to be fair they were the reasons were there when we were going out; they are not a deal breaker by any means. At the same time I am still getting a push/pull from her; she did the chasing last week not me. Time and distance will sort out her feelings for me and allow me to completely restore my self respect. It is then my choice.

[Leveller]

Should you wish to contact me look at my profile. I will keep it there for a day and then remove it.

[samspade]

At the same time I am still getting a push/pull from her; she did the chasing last week not me.

 

You're letting her control your frame and you're waiting on answers from her. Her explanations, furthermore, should be considered meaningless. Don't worry about WHY her feelings changed. When someone wants to be with you, there is no ambiguity. I don't care how long you've been together. Behavior is a much clearer indicator than all of her excuses and double speak.

 

And I, too, believe Soul Bear's advice to be well-intentioned. What do they say - the road to hell is paved with good intentions? One thing you need to understand about this site is that many people who come here have victim mentalities: first they are victims of their exes because they were dumped, then they become "victims" of people who try to show them a different path. I've been called bitter, resentful, misogynist, etc., all because I refuse to indulge in someone else's gluttony for punishment. Yeah, getting dumped sucks, and you should be sad, but it's not going to help you if you come here looking for others to wallow in pity with you in order to validate your poor decisions. This, as far as I can tell, is where Soul Bear is at, as he takes umbrage every time I disagree with him and tries to rally his fellow broken-hearts with dressed up rationalizations for groveling, begging, hounding, and (borderline) stalking an ex.

 

If you want true strength, it won't come from throwing everything but the kitchen sink at your ex. When someone dumps you, or creates space, or whatever, you give it to her. She has already taken her companionship from you, so why should you reward her for it by giving her bits and pieces of your dignity, shred by shred? The one thing you can salvage is your dignity, and you do so by accepting the decision, walking away, and maintaining no contact. Everything else will only push her further and further away.

 

In your case, with the push/pull b.s. and mixed messages, you also need to send a clear message that you don't have time for all of that. Either she is with you, or she's not. That means you cut her off and, unless she comes banging down your door and gets on her knees begging for you back, you move forward. Anything else is indulging her in her own emotional satisfaction and her knowledge that should her Plan B fall through, she can always fall back on you because you'll be there waiting. These are the "second chances" that you often see around here. Guess what? They usually don't last beyond a few weeks before she gets bored and finds another branch to swing on and dumps you again. Maybe 1 out of 100 is successful in the long term.

 

Think about it. Good luck.

[Soul Bear]

You're letting her control your frame and you're waiting on answers from her. Her explanations, furthermore, should be considered meaningless. Don't worry about WHY her feelings changed. When someone wants to be with you, there is no ambiguity. I don't care how long you've been together. Behavior is a much clearer indicator than all of her excuses and double speak.

 

And I, too, believe Soul Bear's advice to be well-intentioned. What do they say - the road to hell is paved with good intentions? One thing you need to understand about this site is that many people who come here have victim mentalities: first they are victims of their exes because they were dumped, then they become "victims" of people who try to show them a different path. I've been called bitter, resentful, misogynist, etc., all because I refuse to indulge in someone else's gluttony for punishment. Yeah, getting dumped sucks, and you should be sad, but it's not going to help you if you come here looking for others to wallow in pity with you in order to validate your poor decisions. This, as far as I can tell, is where Soul Bear is at, as he takes umbrage every time I disagree with him and tries to rally his fellow broken-hearts with dressed up rationalizations for groveling, begging, hounding, and (borderline) stalking an ex.

 

If you want true strength, it won't come from throwing everything but the kitchen sink at your ex. When someone dumps you, or creates space, or whatever, you give it to her. She has already taken her companionship from you, so why should you reward her for it by giving her bits and pieces of your dignity, shred by shred? The one thing you can salvage is your dignity, and you do so by accepting the decision, walking away, and maintaining no contact. Everything else will only push her further and further away.

 

In your case, with the push/pull b.s. and mixed messages, you also need to send a clear message that you don't have time for all of that. Either she is with you, or she's not. That means you cut her off and, unless she comes banging down your door and gets on her knees begging for you back, you move forward. Anything else is indulging her in her own emotional satisfaction and her knowledge that should her Plan B fall through, she can always fall back on you because you'll be there waiting. These are the "second chances" that you often see around here. Guess what? They usually don't last beyond a few weeks before she gets bored and finds another branch to swing on and dumps you again. Maybe 1 out of 100 is successful in the long term.

 

Think about it. Good luck.

 

So I was thinking about it, and whilst I agree that NC is good for getting your head together, I have completely lost every last bit of respect for you, or anything you say.

 

To judge one and his personality, dreams, his soul and his heart, on nothing but 50 pages of emotions and encouraging people to think for them selves is pretty pathetic. I pity you.

I did what I could. No matter how you look at it I will come out stronger for it. Understand that.

[samspade]

I pity you.

I did what I could. No matter how you look at it I will come out stronger for it. Understand that.

 

I'm not here asking for help or advice. And I certainly don't need your pity, which is simply code for "I'm out of arguments and am probably wrong, so I'll just shake my head and try to shame you."

 

Your intentions are good but your advice is misinformed. I don't know you as a person and am only judging your posts as that is all I see. I profiled a certain type of writer on Loveshack. If you saw yourself in that description and took umbrage, that is on you, not me.

 

I'm sure you're a great guy, but if you can't respect a dissenting opinion, then that is too bad. Anyway, I'm not here to make this about you vs. me; I'm here to help the OP see the light and be his own man - not his ex's emotional chew toy. When I see someone telling him to do the wrong thing, I'm going to voice my opinion.

[Leveller]

Rather than making personal statements on individual opinions I would prefer to discuss practicalities. Why I should want a person who behaves like this to come back is my own choice but what I am trying to locate is the strength to fight back. This is not a superficial mechanism for getting her back for good it is more about the Field of Dream mentality 'If you build it they will come'. As I indicated in earlier posts I have been out of work since October and I lost faith in myself and in my career; lots of self doubt crept in. Things are not a whole lot better now but I know this change: I need to rebuild my life. Putting it on hold and not moving on will not bring her back or make me happy. When I worked on myself she became re-interested. She has got to want to come back to me. We were together for a year but I have been repeating many of the same mistakes…why…because my situation hasn’t changed. She has said to me talk is cheap and whilst I have changed my circumstances haven't. They will but I have got to stop feeling this way, try somehow not to think about her and let her manipulate me in the process. How do I do this and refocus away from her and on me and getting my life back on track? I am still doing the NC and have since Thursday...my weakness has been feeding her strength and given her the impression she can come back on her terms and not mine. What will reverse this ridiculous state of affairs? I think I already know the answers but I need to get out of this mindset.

[samspade]

Leveller,

 

Just stay strong and resist all temptation to contact her. Delete her number, her facebook profile, everything.

 

You can't avoid thinking about her, but you can control contacting her, which is what consistently makes you feel worse. You've got the right idea: Focus on yourself and getting your life back on track.

 

When you get the temptation to contact her (or respond to her), put it off. Then, put it off again. Keep doing this. Come here and post for support.

 

Remember that you weren't born with her, and you won't die without her. There are plenty of women out there who will WANT to be with you. As CaliGuy (I think) says, never make someone a priority in your life who has made you an option in hers.

 

Good luck man!

[Soul Bear]

''the road to hell is paved with good intentions'' i disagree

The road to true contentment is often paved with hell. And thats the truth.

 

I encouraged Leveller to do what he feels HE needs to do. I didnt tell him to do this or that, I encouraged him to think for himself. And he did. He saw his situation for what it was and decided to go NC, as me aslo have seen that I have no other choice anymore to go NC.

 

He tried as hard as he could to resolve the breakup, some girls like the chase and just want to be proved that you DO care- my brothers ex is like this, mine is not..

We arent to know if that is a personality of his SO or not by only only a few paragraphs. But there comes a time when we each know what we need to do., if its fight so be it, if its NC so be it. We all know what we need to do.

 

 

 

''which is simply code for "I'm out of arguments and am probably wrong, so I'll just shake my head and try to shame you."- this is exactly what YOU are doing!!!

 

I have no regrets in any information, acts, advice or anything else that I have said to anyone else.

Why must you try to shoot me down all the time? Its childish. I hope you and I bump into each other one day, do let me know if your ever in Scotland....

[samspade]

''which is simply code for "I'm out of arguments and am probably wrong, so I'll just shake my head and try to shame you."- this is exactly what YOU are doing!!!

I think I've presented a good case for NC. We can agree to disagree, I suppose.

 

I encouraged Leveller to do what he feels HE needs to do. I didnt tell him to do this or that, I encouraged him to think for himself. And he did.

I think the evidence shows you weren't so neutral, but I'll put that aside for a moment.

 

Even if you were only here to support someone else's actions, that doesn't necessarily make you noble. People come here because they are in emotional dire straits. Forgive the dramatic phrasing but they CAN'T think for themselves. They seek advice from those of us who aren't emotionally invested because they know we can give clear minded, practical advice.

 

Thus if someone decides "I'm going to contact her," or "well, I think I will text my ex's new man," as an adviser, I like to think I'm duty-bound to talk him out of it because it is not the smart move. It may be easier for you to say, "I support you whatever you do! Lay it on the line!!" but what your efforts have in positivity they lack in courage. As I said, if someone points a loaded gun to his head, you don't "support" him by telling him to pull the trigger. Again, forgive the dramatic analogy, but you get the point.

 

On top of it all, and correct me if I'm wrong, you yourself are going through post-breakup heartbreak - much of it your own doing. Your ego is not listening to your subconscious, and you won't even consider that your own behavior was detrimental to your emotional health as well as your ex's respect for you. I know you are telling yourself, and I quote, "I still believe I did the right [t]hing in following my heart." You believe this because you don't want to consider that another path may have been better.

 

Now, I understand the idea behind following your heart and exhausting every avenue, and knowing you did what you could. I get that. I've been through it, and I think a lot of people need to go through it so they realize what a waste of energy it is and learn not to make that mistake again. Because someone thinking straight - someone whose heart wasn't broken - would have a more sober understanding of human behavior and the incredible odds against a second chance, and how much the odds compound when he engages in trying to get her back. A clear-minded person says, "the hell with that. She doesn't want to be with me? She gets NONE of me. Besides, I need time to heal, I don't want her to see me this way." It takes a real emotionally distraught individual to think, "She dumped me, but if I chase her and throw myself at her feet, maybe she'll realize she still loves me and take me back!" Only the heartbroken think this way.

 

This is why I must stand athwart and shout, "Stop."

[Leveller]

I would be interested to know what you make of my ex's behaviour pattern vis-a-vis her new man. They had their first major argument at Easter and it took a lot of begging and pleading from him to take her back. They have since had at least two or three major arguments that have led to NC for up to two weeks with the same results. All she has said is 'He's really nice', 'treats me like a queen', 'has fallen for me hook, line and sinker' and 'I feel sorry for him'. There have been a whole host of negatives comments as well, as detailed earlier, but when he calls she is like a dizzy schoolgirl. We have slept together eight times during this period as detailed earlier. This is not about getting back with her but I am curious to know what does everyone make of this? I have my own opinions but will refrain from giving them before people have a chance to reply.

[samspade]

If it's not about getting back together with her, then why are you keeping score? That is my question.

 

But, to indulge you....

 

She sounds immature and a little screwed up. Women love drama, and you've allowed her to become the center of her own little soap opera. She gets to have two guys while you're both fighting to keep her.

 

Let him have her. They deserve each other. Get out of her life. She wants him, and all the fighting that comes with him, then by all means....cut the cord.

[justletgo07]

So I was thinking about it, and whilst I agree that NC is good for getting your head together, I have completely lost every last bit of respect for you, or anything you say.

 

To judge one and his personality, dreams, his soul and his heart, on nothing but 50 pages of emotions and encouraging people to think for them selves is pretty pathetic. I pity you.

I did what I could. No matter how you look at it I will come out stronger for it. Understand that.

 

I'm going to have to agree with Samspade on this one, and I think your reaction above is taking things to an inappropriately personal level when no such reaction was called for.

 

While passing no judgement on you as a person, I believe that the advice you are giving is going to end up being counterproductive for Leveller, and I think that what you are saying is what he wants to hear and so he is apt to follow your advice. I know you mean well, but I think you and Leveller are at too similar a place for you to give unbiased advice on his situation.

 

The whole idea of "fighting for the one you love" is very romantic, but not very realistic outside of Hollywood. When someone choses to end a relationship, they don't want you to fight for them; they just don't want to be with you. No amount of trying or professing your love can change the way that someone feels, and usually makes the one doing the professing look rather pathetic.

 

Leveller, you asked how do you refocus and get your life under control? By letting go. As long as you make your happiness and emotional stability dependent on someone else other than yourself, your life will always feel out of control. You need to let go of the outcome of this situation, and realize that in reality you will be just fine whether she comes back or not. I know this flies in the face of notions like her being "the one" but I challenge you to find one case where excessively worrying about something made a situation any better.

 

I wish the OP good luck.

[Leveller]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, although don't be hard on anyone. We are all trying to do our best for people from our own perspective. As I've said before 'If you build it, they will come' whether it is your much desired ex or someone else. Is this a truism?

[samspade]

As I've said before 'If you build it, they will come' whether it is your much desired ex or someone else. Is this a truism?

 

Are you building a vibrator? Haha.

 

That's a catchphrase from a movie, about a sports venue. I wouldn't apply it to a relationship.

 

If you build a happy, goal-driven life, women may be drawn to you...but you will still have to take some initiative, as a man.

[LovesHangover]

Yeah: Move on and quit waiting on someone who has not demonstrated a desire to be with you.

 

Her excuses are just that, and you're buying them hook, line, and sinker.

 

She's not afraid of anything. She just doesn't want to get back together with you. If she did, she would, in spite of her supposed doubts.

 

You think you are in control but you are just playing her little game. You say you don't want to let it slip away "for both our sakes"? Give me a break. You CAN'T let it go for ego's sake. You should always be willing to walk away.

 

Wow! Advice like that is clear example as to why love is so rare and rarely lasts. Every word was negative. Geez!In my opinon, you should be honest with her and take what you get! Sometimes taking it slow is best. You love her, so stick it out until you say when!

[LovesHangover]

Please do, I would say my name, but i know that im the only one called this name!

 

Sam...that advice is not flawed at all. Its honest. For every action there is a reaction. Hence why I stated as such to think it through. I may be in my own 'emotional rollercoaster' but I am no idiot. I sense a small ammount of resentment building towards me from you.

 

 

Keep me posted brother bear, and remember, that you are going to be SUCH a stronger person for putting it all on the line and refusing to back down, even tho it hurts more, its still the best way, and you tried the best you could- I am merely stating that he is, as am I, going to be a stronger person for the extent we have gone to, in order to get our ex's back. Yes we may have prolonged our healing, but it WILL make us stronger people...with no regrets

 

I agree that being open and vulnerable is best. You are already stronger for giving your all when most people would give up. Give your all and respect the results.Giving it all you have leaves no room for regret as you have honored yourself. I do not think that honoring yourself and being honest/vulnerable is desperate or any other negative label it has been given. Also, I am not a major fan of taking the advice of others. We all have everything we need to make decisions. Follow your heart especially about matters of the heart.

[samspade]

Wow! Advice like that is clear example as to why love is so rare and rarely lasts. Every word was negative. Geez!In my opinon, you should be honest with her and take what you get! Sometimes taking it slow is best. You love her, so stick it out until you say when!

 

Leveller,

 

Ignore this nonsense. "Take what you get" is doormat-speak for take what she gives you because you have no options. Don't live your life like a pigeon waiting for her bread crumbs.

 

And going back to your Field of Dreams post, maybe you have a point. Having good women in your life is a consequence of YOU being happy and living well....not the other way around.

 

Sam

[Leveller]

I've had two of my ex's come back to me in much more difficult circumstances...and more than one woman getting back in touch after long periods of time. In the first case it was five years apart and we split in painful circumstances. The second I did all the pushing, wrote her a letter etc...did all the wrong things and was absolutely broken hearted. This was nine months in. It took a month or two but she came back to me slowly of her volition and we were together for over a year again before she had to move away but we were in touch for months afterwards. Where I stand at the moment is this. I feel much stronger in myself that I have done since late last year, I do not want her in my life at the moment because it is in flux sill...that will change in the next few months as I get back into work. After that I will be much better prepared for all eventualities.

 

It doesn't mean I don't miss her as a friend and a lover but she is with someone else and I need to withdraw from that situation for my own well being. She will be in touch again though I am sure. She has already stated and shown that she misses me when apart and that I have changed for the better. I am stronger now though and do not want to get drawn again into an emotional vortex (which happens when you percieve a partner to have been the centre of your life) and need to step away. If or when she comes back will be her choice but it cannot simply be an open door - that will be my choice. I feel were are only in the first act of a long play. In a very real sense LS has been a great help to me and it shows that the kindness of strangers goes a long way.

[LovesHangover]

Leveller,

 

Ignore this nonsense. "Take what you get" is doormat-speak for take what she gives you because you have no options. Don't live your life like a pigeon waiting for her bread crumbs.

 

And going back to your Field of Dreams post, maybe you have a point. Having good women in your life is a consequence of YOU being happy and living well....not the other way around.

 

Sam

 

Samspade,

 

Okay, "taking what you get" is taken out of context. I apologize for being ambiguous. I am not for anyone being a doormat of any kind for any one. I believe that you can honestly state your point (without grovelling, begging, or harassing someone). Just having a straightforward conversation in which you honestly express yourself and hear the other person's communication and respect what they say. You can be assertive in this and all situations. Your life ends when you stop expressing what matters to you.

 

Lev,

 

I am very sorry to read about what happened. You will be fine whether you are with this person are not. But I still agree that you should give all you are got. You are whole, perfect, and complete as a human being. You don't do everything perfectly, but you are perfect as you are as we all are. We all have barriers and do not act perfectly. When you are done, be done. Just don't follow other people's ideas of how you should live your life. If you want to try again. Try. If you want to let it go. Let it go. It is up to you.

 

I have to state that the way the many people approach relationships is very, very counterproductive. In their opinion, you keep your dignity and ignore someone you care about until they show you by losing his/hers through begging etc. I personally do not want to ever be in a relationship with someone like that. Just talk to me straight. No need to beg or anything. I would rather watch paint dry than to witness something like that. Basically, if you are not encouraging and caring for each other, you do not need to be together.

 

Peace and Blessings!

[Leveller]

The world and his oyster can tell me to move on and I am. NC, plans to move a couple of hours away with a possible new job and generally better in myself. However, I get the feeling with this one, and I have had my fair share of girlfriends, that this is not over. As long as I carry on doing what I am doing and thrive I am convinced she will come knocking on my door sometime before the end of the year. Whether I will feel as I now do and can forgive her is another matter.

[LovesHangover]

The world and his oyster can tell me to move on and I am. NC, plans to move a couple of hours away with a possible new job and generally better in myself. However, I get the feeling with this one, and I have had my fair share of girlfriends, that this is not over. As long as I carry on doing what I am doing and thrive I am convinced she will come knocking on my door sometime before the end of the year. Whether I will feel as I now do and can forgive her is another matter.

 

Congratulations!!! I am happy that you are taking actions for yourself. Every situation teaches a lesson, so seek for lessons in everything. It is important to keep growing and getting better in life. I don't know you, but I think you are wonderful. I admire you for following your heart while taking care of yourself. You're amazing!!!

[Leveller]

There is something else I haven't mentioned so far and it has only been looking through the posts on commitment phobes that it has occured to me. As I said earlier, she was in an abusive relationship for 10 years. He would not let her go out on her own, if she went to the shops and was gone for more than 15 minutes he would go looking for her, was violent towards her and cheated on her...yet she stayed with him. He did say he would kill her if she ever left but she did find the strength to kick him out of her house after her 40th birthday.

 

Naturally she greatly values her independence now. When I lived away she had her freedom and space and loved coming down to see me. She would miss me and long for me to come back. When I moved back we spent large amounts of time together and I would be up her house for about 70% of the time, largely because I wanted to be around her as much as possible. For the last two months of our relationship I knew this behaviour was pushing her away and she tried telling me but I wasn't listening (I was hearing but not listening but knew this was happening and told myself). This was coupled with personal difficulties about being out of work.

 

She told me in the last couple of weeks she cannot be around someone 24/7 and needs her space. We all do. Does commitment phobia help explain why she keeps the person she's seeing at arms length and why she covers her feelings (and admits doing so). Does this also partly explain the mind games and push/pull behaviour towards me?

[Leveller]

Please see this link http://www.eioba.com/a50632/what_to_do_with_a_woman_who_has_commitment_phobia

 

She has had all three. Her mother died when she was 13, her father had affairs and got remarried, had a messy divorce as well as the aforementioned abusive relationship.

 

For my part I was and have been 'in her face' ever since I moved back.

[Leveller]

Does the lack of any further posts mean I might be on to something or am I completely off base on CP?

[Leveller]

Day 14 of NC. I feel better and am thinking about her less. I know if we got back together before I find work and move away it will not work. I still miss her of course and haven't deleted her number because I am strong willed enough not to contact her. Thanks to LovesHangover and everyone else for the support.