Lizzie60 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 If my father would have told me he was cheating on my mother, or vice versa, I'd disagree with the above statement. If my father had cheated on my mother...someone I love dearly, and hurt her, I'd say he is a down right son-of-a-bitch. No....they're not did your father cheated on your mother? Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Exactly.. I agree.. I've told this before.. parents who share their 'sexual' secrets and behaviors with their kids.. are stupid parents.. IMO. So.. that being said.. parents who cheat on their SO.. could still be amazing parents... All my MMs, who have children.. are great dads.. Kids should never be made a part of the 'mess' if it becomes a mess. No one is suggesting sharing sexual secrets(whatever that means). Affairs are much more than about sex. Kids need to know what happened, sans the sex details(who gives a rat's ass about them, anyway.) NFW are guys that cheat great dads. Liz. How would you know, anyway. You might get a snapshot of their lives, but you do not have acces to seeing how thry interact, consistently. This is hogwash. Mess was creared completely by the cheater. The kids are already a part of it and it is on the WS. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 From what I've seen in the past, and read on this forum.. some BS becomes totally 'fascinated' by the OP. They want to know them.. they want to see them... they want to know what happened... The OW doesn't owe Spark any 'details'.. OP: If you want 'details' why don't you ask your husband.. I think they should be studied, clinically, myself. Maybe pet scans to see where their brains have atrophied. Of course, to get to the head, one has to scan the butt. Link to post Share on other sites
Montclair0011 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Spark - I'm a BS myself--my husband left me for another woman, who was an old friend to us both. So I've been in a worse situation than yours, and have suffered horribly, unable to sleep for months with images of the two of them. . .but still---don't for the life of me understand why you would call this woman. It's over and done with. It's already closed. By calling you risk opening the whole thing up again (as some other posters have also said). I'm not surprised the OW did not call you back and I don't think she owes you anything. You are probably not on her radar screen and she should not be on yours. Besides, what kind of objective information do you think you would get out of her? She's not exactly a neutral source, right? You should be focusing on your present relationship with your husband, not some OW. I also don't get how you feel that you are the adult one here, acting properly. There are no Miss Manners guides on to how to behave maturely in these situations. If there were, I'm guessing they would tell you to forgetaboutit. Take the high road. It sounds like you might have some control type issues, that you might want to get checked out in case they are affecting other areas of your life. You are expecting people to change and to act in ways that are just not reasonable to expect. You need to let go. I know what kind of anguish these situations cause. I even think about what I will say to the OW in my situation when I have to deal with her in person at some point. She went after my husband. Because of her, my life has, in many ways, been ruined and my child has been damaged. But going to the OW for closure, or for ANYTHING, is beyond thinkable, IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites
JeezLouise Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 no really...have at it. No, thank you. I am not into over-reaching and over-bearing generalizations about people that I don't know, which is why I don't subscribe to your view that all OW/OM are evil pieces of three day old dog poo, nor do I subscribe to the common OP view that all BS are frigid, cruel nasty nags and hags who drive their spouses away. You can generalize all you want - you will anyway - but I choose to remain open-minded and realize that there is more to life than black and white, and more than evil and right, and more than one side to any story. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Always more than one side, his, hers, and the truth. Only two choices in life right and wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
JeezLouise Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Only two choices in life right and wrong. We will just have to agree that we have differing opinions on that. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 We will just have to agree that we have differing opinions on that. Not a problem for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I've never known an honorable OW or OM, and I know a fair number. We are defined by our actions. Folks can change but someone actively cheating is a liar and an abuser at that point in his/her life. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I think they should be studied, clinically, myself. Maybe pet scans to see where their brains have atrophied. Of course, to get to the head, one has to scan the butt. You didn't answer my question.. did your dad cheated on your mother? Link to post Share on other sites
JeezLouise Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I've never known an honorable OW or OM, and I know a fair number. We are defined by our actions. Folks can change but someone actively cheating is a liar and an abuser at that point in his/her life. And we, as well, will just have to agree to disagree on that point, too. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 You didn't answer my question.. did your dad cheated on your mother? I doubt it. He was pretty busy drinking. Not good for the sex drive when combined with three packs a day. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I doubt it. He was pretty busy drinking. Not good for the sex drive when combined with three packs a day. So I guess your dad was not a good dad because of his drinking .. right? or did you admire and loved your father? Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 So I guess your dad was not a good dad because of his drinking .. right? or did you admire and loved your father? He had problems, but , on balance, he was good. Smarter than hell, graduated Harvard Law in 2 years, scratch golfer, really generous with the poor who he represented for nothing half the time. Went to mass everyday and had the rosary in his pocket. Quite the mix. Alcohol almost ruined him. That **** will turn Jekyll into Hyde. Link to post Share on other sites
confusedinkansas Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 If my father would have told me he was cheating on my mother, or vice versa, I'd disagree with the above statement. If my father had cheated on my mother...someone I love dearly, and hurt her, I'd say he is a down right son-of-a-bitch. No....they're not How on earth do you figure that? The MM I was seeing was a MUCH better father than my own husband! Just because someone is having an affair does not mean that every other aspect of their life goes to hell in a handbasket. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I would agree that there's no need to go into any kind of "graphic detail" when explaining to the kids (of any age) about the affair. But...simply telling the kids that the reason the parents are going through a rough time is because one of the parents is seeing someone else...or has been telling someone else that they are in love with them...isn't a graphic detail. That's being honest without being graphic. It's enough information for the kids to understand what's going on...and enough information for the family to start rebuilding with. I'd argue with Lizzie that her MM's are NOT "good fathers". They're cheating on the kid's mothers...they're spending money and time away from the family on Lizzie that should never have gone there...that was denied to the wife and kids. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Agrre with OWl. A cheating husband is not a good dad. He squanders time and resources on himself. He is selfish. Link to post Share on other sites
confusedinkansas Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Agrre with OWl. A cheating husband is not a good dad. He squanders time and resources on himself. He is selfish. AGREE! on the selfish part. Both participants in an affair are being selfish. Doesn't mean that it takes time away from their kids. Sorry, in my case both of us have grown kids. Therefore, there was no time taken away from them. Taking time away from our spouses....I'd argue that one too. If the spouse is wrapped up in something else, like junior league, girlfriends, guy friends & golf....& they are gone anyway - then it's not taking time away. I also 100% disagree with telling the kids ANYTHING!!! It's just not their business. Even if you want to argue the "family" issue - it still has nothing to do with the kids & they don't need to know. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 AGREE! on the selfish part. Both participants in an affair are being selfish. Doesn't mean that it takes time away from their kids. Sorry, in my case both of us have grown kids. Therefore, there was no time taken away from them. Taking time away from our spouses....I'd argue that one too. If the spouse is wrapped up in something else, like junior league, girlfriends, guy friends & golf....& they are gone anyway - then it's not taking time away. I also 100% disagree with telling the kids ANYTHING!!! It's just not their business. Even if you want to argue the "family" issue - it still has nothing to do with the kids & they don't need to know. Guess we'll have to completely disagree on the telling the kids part. Cheating doesn't just destroy the BS...it destroys the entire family dynamic. I'll point out that this all still fits the typical "pattern" of these things tho...the vast majority of WS's/fWS's tend to agree with you...whereas the vast majority of BS's tend to agree with my view. I think it's part of the mindset that helps many WS's opt to cheat in the first place...the inherent belief that things are/should be completely compartmentalized and seperted from each other. That's what often let's them justify the affair to begin with...it's THEIR choice, THEIR life...and they very often believe that there should/won't be any impacts to anyone else. It's "no one else's business". You sound as if you think that the affair was a "bubble"...something that existed all off in it's own little world, and had nothing to do with anyone/anything else. Most BS's would argue that this isn't the case, as evidenced by the emotional devestation that they went through. Had my wife left me for her OM as they had planned...it most CERTAINLY would have had direct, undeniable impacts on my kids. What SHOULD they have been told about her reasons to leave? "It's none of your business!"????? I don't think so. Link to post Share on other sites
confusedinkansas Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Had my wife left me for her OM as they had planned...it most CERTAINLY would have had direct, undeniable impacts on my kids. What SHOULD they have been told about her reasons to leave? "It's none of your business!"????? I don't think so. That's a WHOLE DIFFERENT ballgame! Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Howso? It is EXACTLY what we faced, as a direct result of her affair. When confronted on d-day, OM bought her plane tickets to go live with him... Even had she not been facing that as an option, the kids would still have been VERY much aware that the stuff had hit the fan in the house between her and I...what SHOULD we have told them when they asked what was going on? I would have told them the truth, whether or not she had those tickets. I don't get it...what SHOULD they have been told, if not the truth? I'm not saying that they should have graphic details...but why SHOULDN'T they have been told the truth...that she'd started seeing someone else and that's why we'd been going through the rough times? Why SHOULDN'T they have heard that? Link to post Share on other sites
confusedinkansas Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Howso? It is EXACTLY what we faced, as a direct result of her affair. When confronted on d-day, OM bought her plane tickets to go live with him... Even had she not been facing that as an option, the kids would still have been VERY much aware that the stuff had hit the fan in the house between her and I...what SHOULD we have told them when they asked what was going on? I would have told them the truth, whether or not she had those tickets. I don't get it...what SHOULD they have been told, if not the truth? I'm not saying that they should have graphic details...but why SHOULDN'T they have been told the truth...that she'd started seeing someone else and that's why we'd been going through the rough times? Why SHOULDN'T they have heard that? This has kind of gotten off of what the OP posted. That's just what I meant - That's a different scenario. IF the children are basically thrown into the 'lions den' when it comes to telling or not telling - I suppose you are left with no choice. Again - Every affair & the outcome of that affair is different. I didn't have to deal with those situations. Don't know what I would have done if I would have been in that situation. I try not to predict or guess the "what if's" of the world. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 did your father cheated on your mother? no, but if he did, he'd be sh#t to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Lizzie60 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 no, but if he did, he'd be sh#t to me. Yabutt.. maybe you just don't know about it.. What children don't know can't hurt them.. right? you just proved my point. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 How on earth do you figure that? The MM I was seeing was a MUCH better father than my own husband! well at least we can see how you really feel about your husband, and how much high regard you hold your OM. Link to post Share on other sites
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