I called OW twice and guess what?

[bentnotbroken]

There is really no point in you saying to her "I forgive you". She did not do this to you, it was not about you at all. She did not do it to hurt you a all. So forigiveness would mean nothing at all, it would feel completely freaky. Is this something about if she sees you as a friend, or a real person, you feel she would not be able to have a relationship with your H again, is it that you feel that if she knew you, she would never come near again. Do you subconciously see her as still a threat. Just a thought. As an OW I am trying to help really. But seeing from her point of view, I would run a mile, so would my mm from my husband. It would be totally cringeworthy.

 

 

Well it isn't hard to see why you don't get the point ? She isn't trying to do anything for the ow even though she is wrong and did do something to hurt her. She is doing this for her own healing. As I have said before, I wouldn't pursue it after this much time, but it is what she needs to close the final chapter. We all have our needs that help us heal, it isn't within your realm of reality to understand forgiveness. Forgiveness is as much if not in some cases more, for the betrayed. Let's pray that when your BS and MM's BS find out, they are as diligent in their pursuit of forgiveness....for their own healing.

[bentnotbroken]

BNB quote

And these phone calls might even be giving her some sort of "sick pleasure" knowing that she (the OW) and the A is still creating a Major Impact on your life (deny it if you want - but if the OW and the A wasn't an issue you wouldn't be bringing it up). Don't give her that satisfaction.'

 

You are demonising the OW, this is not how most OW would think. I think she would only feel like that, had she taken lots of grief from the BS. The OP does not want to demonise her, IMO she wants to see her as normal so that she can stop hating her or try and forget about her at least.

 

 

I didn't say that.

[delirious]

BNB with respect, you do not 'get the point'. She is trying to get a reaction from the OW, She will not get it, she does not want her attention. I was trying to tell the OP that there is nothing positive for the OW in this and therefore she will not get a reaction, irrespective to the motive for her contact. The OW does not see how this could be of any benefit to her. It is nothing personal. You however do come across rather bitter and this does not help anyone. We are here to help not vent our spleen, Take a back seat.

[confusedinkansas]

BS= betrayed spouse. The negative came in both people saying how horrible the BS is. It isn't always that way. There have even been posters on here who have had A's and said that there were married to great people. Whatever the brokenness was within the person having the A allows them to only create and magnify anything that will create a type of unfair picture of the BS.

 

Bent- I said horrible things they were DOING. Not that they were horrible PEOPLE.

 

For instance - Whan a married couple has a fight & the wife runs to her girlfriends & tells them what horrible things he has said or did...NOT that he is a horrible person. That was what I was referring to.

Having the affair partner is having another friend. Someone to tell your troubles to. To share about your kids....that's what I meant.

[bentnotbroken]

BNB with respect, you do not 'get the point'. She is trying to get a reaction from the OW, She will not get it, she does not want her attention. I was trying to tell the OP that there is nothing positive for the OW in this and therefore she will not get a reaction, irrespective to the motive for her contact. The OW does not see how this could be of any benefit to her. It is nothing personal. You however do come across rather bitter and this does not help anyone. We are here to help not vent our spleen, Take a back seat.

 

 

Not only will I not take a back seat. I am not venting and I understand Sparks convictions(religiously)more than you do. It is part of what heals us. If it were only about the OW she could just right it down and burn it. It isn't about getting a rise out of her or anybody else. It is the need to face the person and say I forgive you and now I am healed. It is what Jesus did on the cross for those who nailed him there.

 

I did it, granted it was soon after d-day, but the time frame for those who need to this isn't the same. It also appears as if you are taking this to heart, by saying you would run from the person you have wronged. Not all OW are like you either. Some don't mind facing the BS. The ow in my case faced me. I don't want her to pursue this either, as I have stated before to those who care to take my post in full context, but I understand her convictions, do you?

 

 

Because you don't see the benefit, doesn't mean there is no benefit. It is clear by your actions and your words that your thought processes are very different than Sparks.

[JeezLouise]

BNB, after two years, Sparks will not come across to the OW as a benevolent BS who wants closure and does not want to bash her or be ugly (and you can see by her own words that she still harbors a lot of anger and resentment that the OW hasn't been "punished" properly).

 

She comes across as someone who can't let go, who is still dwelling on the OW aspect of the EMA rather than working on her marriage and keeping the ties with her H tight.

 

When there is a crack in a marital relationship, it allows others to slip in. A marriage is like a castle wall; unbreachable until there is a chink in the mortar - either by someone picking at the mortar until the bricks crumble, or by natural means like erosion by water or time or wind - but that wall needs to be maintained by the marital partners together.

 

Sparks is putting a crack there herself by this contact. She is giving a perfect reason for the OW to contact the MM, and the MM feels badly about his wife bothering this woman that he once/still cares for - big crack, and one that can lead to disasterous results for her marriage.

 

Trust me - an EMA is an odd tie between people. The break-ups typically aren't caused by one person getting tired of the other or realizing that the relationship isn't working anymore; they are usually caused by a third party's discovery and so the break-up occurs because of threatened repercussions pertaining to the EMA (possible divorce, loss of custody, loss of family respect, loss of friends, going to hell, loss of finances).

 

And when a relationship is ended by a third party, it leaves the two primary parties with wistful, bittersweet memories of how good things once were, of how passionate they were together pre-discovery. THAT is why NC is vitally important to an EMA ending. And when the EMA memories are stirred by contact, or by triggers, it becomes very easy to romanticize how wonderful the EMA is - and that spells trouble for the BS's marriage.

 

If Sparks wants to keep her marital walls strong and unbreachable, she needs to stop putting ladders up against the defenses.

[confusedinkansas]

BNB, after two years, Sparks will not come across to the OW as a benevolent BS who wants closure and does not want to bash her or be ugly (and you can see by her own words that she still harbors a lot of anger and resentment that the OW hasn't been "punished" properly).

 

She comes across as someone who can't let go, who is still dwelling on the OW aspect of the EMA rather than working on her marriage and keeping the ties with her H tight.

 

When there is a crack in a marital relationship, it allows others to slip in. A marriage is like a castle wall; unbreachable until there is a chink in the mortar - either by someone picking at the mortar until the bricks crumble, or by natural means like erosion by water or time or wind - but that wall needs to be maintained by the marital partners together.

 

Sparks is putting a crack there herself by this contact. She is giving a perfect reason for the OW to contact the MM, and the MM feels badly about his wife bothering this woman that he once/still cares for - big crack, and one that can lead to disasterous results for her marriage.

 

Trust me - an EMA is an odd tie between people. The break-ups typically aren't caused by one person getting tired of the other or realizing that the relationship isn't working anymore; they are usually caused by a third party's discovery and so the break-up occurs because of threatened repercussions pertaining to the EMA (possible divorce, loss of custody, loss of family respect, loss of friends, going to hell, loss of finances).

 

And when a relationship is ended by a third party, it leaves the two primary parties with wistful, bittersweet memories of how good things once were, of how passionate they were together pre-discovery. THAT is why NC is vitally important to an EMA ending. And when the EMA memories are stirred by contact, or by triggers, it becomes very easy to romanticize how wonderful the EMA is - and that spells trouble for the BS's marriage.

 

If Sparks wants to keep her marital walls strong and unbreachable, she needs to stop putting ladders up against the defenses.

 

Exactly!!! Very well said!!!

Only thing I would add.....I'm not 100% positive - but the odds are that the other woman has MOVED ON!! Moved past this!

I know you all will jump on this one......but.......here goes........The OW has to heal too (we're human) Whether she did this to herself or not. Sparks has let her husband heal.

Let the poor woman go! Sparks - Besides wanting to look like the Heroine in this situation, why is it so necessary for you to look this woman in the face?

[Chocolat]

Because you don't see the benefit, doesn't mean there is no benefit. It is clear by your actions and your words that your thought processes are very different than Sparks.

 

The benefit of forgiveness -- which is considerable, imo, and what Christians are called upon to do -- does not require actually saying "I forgive you" to the person who has wronged you. True forgiveness happens in the heart. It also provides a clear path to knowing what to do should we run into that person in future.

 

Requiring the other person to acknowledge or hear that she has been forgiven is not part of any Biblical precept.

 

Sparks can and should achieve her closure without speaking to the exOW.

[beyondsad]

The other woman called me and she said she wanted to apologize after 8 months of torturing me (comments to friends and facebook about my H and their A). I told her I wanted NOTHING from her except for her to leave me and my H alone and hung up on her.

I was shaking when I hung the phone up but I realized that she is nothing to me and I gave her way to much power over me. I know the only reason she called me was because I called her H and told him all the crap that she was continuing to do behind his back and asked him to please tell her to stop. Well it stoppped and she wasn't happy that I talked to H and in some weird twilight zone way I feel better.

I just don't think anything the OW has to say to us is going to make us feel better only worse- so for me my plan continues to be just ignore her. And hope the KARMA bus runs her over!!!!

[confusedinkansas]

And hope the KARMA bus runs her over!!!!

 

Just this quote alone....all by itsself....is HILARIOUS!! There are a lot of people I wish the "KARMA BUS" would run over!!!

(the man i had the affair with is numer-uno on my list)

[Snowflower]

Just this quote alone....all by itsself....is HILARIOUS!! There are a lot of people I wish the "KARMA BUS" would run over!!!

(the man i had the affair with is numer-uno on my list)

 

CIK, Just outta curiousity, why would you want to man you had an affair with to get run over by the "karma bus?"

[Spark1111]

Posters, I do not CARE if she contacts him and tells him I have called her. She did that in November when I accidentally muted the message of "Okay, I see you still have your same cell phone number. Please call me." She was pissed, and somewhat abrupt with him, like I was such a bother.

 

I cannot go into the future with fear in my heart that they will reconnect. That is not acting or feeling as if I am healed and in a position of strength or security. The very real possibilities exist that they, I, he and she will run into one another sometime in the future. I refuse to fear that moment.

 

Part of the healing process is reclaiming your old life as a BS. To not live in fear of the unknown, or passing places they frequented, or allowing thoughts to trigger the devastating betrayal you felt after Day. At least for me it is.

 

So, if she has moved on, and I hope she has, why be angry, or frightened, or embarassed, to return my phone call? Avoidance, in and of itself, is a manifestation of fear, and unfortunately, a very prevalent character trait among cheaters.

 

Why avoid a controlled situation, a cup of coffee forcryin'out loud, when the prospects remain for an uncontrolled situation?

 

Part of maturity is owning the choices we make in life, regardless of the consequences, regardless if it hurt others. It doesn't really matter. I am in a good place. I hope she is too.

[Spark1111]

There is really no point in you saying to her "I forgive you". She did not do this to you, it was not about you at all. She did not do it to hurt you a all. So forigiveness would mean nothing at all, it would feel completely freaky. Is this something about if she sees you as a friend, or a real person, you feel she would not be able to have a relationship with your H again, is it that you feel that if she knew you, she would never come near again. Do you subconciously see her as still a threat. Just a thought. As an OW I am trying to help really. But seeing from her point of view, I would run a mile, so would my mm from my husband. It would be totally cringeworthy.

 

 

Delirious, I appreciate your honesty. But why run? Why hide? If you love the man and he loves you, why not separate from your spouses and shout it from the rooftops? Why be in secret? It is the secretiveness that is soooooo....disturbing and truly, immature to me. Own your choices, or why did you/are you making them?

[taylor]

BNB, after two years, Sparks will not come across to the OW as a benevolent BS who wants closure and does not want to bash her or be ugly (and you can see by her own words that she still harbors a lot of anger and resentment that the OW hasn't been "punished" properly).

 

She comes across as someone who can't let go, who is still dwelling on the OW aspect of the EMA rather than working on her marriage and keeping the ties with her H tight.

 

When there is a crack in a marital relationship, it allows others to slip in. A marriage is like a castle wall; unbreachable until there is a chink in the mortar - either by someone picking at the mortar until the bricks crumble, or by natural means like erosion by water or time or wind - but that wall needs to be maintained by the marital partners together.

 

Sparks is putting a crack there herself by this contact. She is giving a perfect reason for the OW to contact the MM, and the MM feels badly about his wife bothering this woman that he once/still cares for - big crack, and one that can lead to disasterous results for her marriage.

 

Trust me - an EMA is an odd tie between people. The break-ups typically aren't caused by one person getting tired of the other or realizing that the relationship isn't working anymore; they are usually caused by a third party's discovery and so the break-up occurs because of threatened repercussions pertaining to the EMA (possible divorce, loss of custody, loss of family respect, loss of friends, going to hell, loss of finances).

 

And when a relationship is ended by a third party, it leaves the two primary parties with wistful, bittersweet memories of how good things once were, of how passionate they were together pre-discovery. THAT is why NC is vitally important to an EMA ending. And when the EMA memories are stirred by contact, or by triggers, it becomes very easy to romanticize how wonderful the EMA is - and that spells trouble for the BS's marriage.

 

If Sparks wants to keep her marital walls strong and unbreachable, she needs to stop putting ladders up against the defenses.

 

This is an excellent post regarding EA's, how they start, and how they end.

 

Spark, let me ask you this: What emotional need do you have...what emotional need is not being met...inside YOU...that is making you want to contact this woman? You seem to be reaching out to her to fix something in you...to meet some need that you can't get met on your own. What is it?

 

I am a MW who had an EA with a single man who had a live-in girlfriend. She left him a few months into the affair.

 

My EA went down in exactly the way JeezLouise describes above.

 

Like you, Spark, I wanted closure. I wanted it from him. The EA ended abruptly and he "disappeared" off the face of the earth. I wanted so badly to know that it "meant" something to him...that I had "meant" something to him. I wanted to know if he was going to miss me and if he was in pain like I was because then I would know for sure that I meant something to him.

 

I never got that closure from him. It's been over a year.

 

My therapist asked why I was so desparate for that closure. I told her I needed to KNOW that he VALUED me.

 

She then asked, why is it important to know if he valued you.

 

I replied: Because I need to know if I am valuable..if I am worth something.

 

You see, Spark, it took me a year to realize I didn't NEED to get closure from him. I only needed to realize FOR MYSELF, that I am indeed a valuable, worthwhile person. I did not need him to validate that for me. I could do it myself. I could fulfill that need myself.

 

I also had a wierd desire to meet his ex-girlfriend after the affair ended. During the affair, it was as if she didn't even exist. But afterwards, the desire to meet with her, just to talk over coffee, perhaps, was eating me up inside.

 

Why did I want to meet her? Two reasons.

 

I wanted to compare myself to her. Did I measure up? Were we alike or opposites? Again, I was looking for a way to validate my own worth. I wanted to "use" her to prove that I was, indeed, valuable...I was worth something.

 

I also wanted her to tell me why she left him. I wanted to know the "bad" side of him because that's all I knew was the "good" side. I wanted her to hit me with a dose of reality...something I could "use" to help me get over him. I wanted her to tell me something...anything...that would devalue him in my eyes...disillusion me..something that would perhaps make me hate him a little.

 

But I never got to meet her. Eventually, I realized I didn't need to meet her in order to validate my own worth. I could find that inside myself. And I also realized I didn't need her to help me get over him.

 

So, again, I ask, Spark, what need do you have inside that you feel you can only satisfy by talking to this OW?

[Snowflower]

Part of maturity is owning the choices we make in life, regardless of the consequences, regardless if it hurt others. It doesn't really matter. I am in a good place. I hope she is too.

 

spark, I get what you are saying here, I really do. But what if the OW is not in "a good place" with things? What if she is still pining for your husband and you contacting her brings it all back for her-the longing, the painful, but good memories, etc.

 

I know you mentioned that you didn't care if she contacted your husband if you contacted her. However, do you really want to run the risk of having the two of them talk again. Sure, it might be nothing. A brief conversation about your call and that is it. But what if they begin talking, catching up with one another. The NC has been broken and things can turn unpredictable.

 

I get that you want her to accept the consequences for her actions and owning her choices. You're absolutely right- it is the mature thing to do. But you can't make someone accept responsibility and even if she did accept responsibility, so what? How will that help you overcome the pain of your husband's affair? Do you feel like you don't have enough facts from your husband about the A? If so, you need to discuss this with him because HIS explanations will matter more to you than hers.

 

FWIW, I have not contacted the OW in my situation and I most likely never will. I have her phone number-it would be very easy for me to do this. But, I have no need to talk to her and any curiousity I felt about her diminishes as time goes on.

 

I'm not quite sure what I would say to her anyway. There is nothing she could tell me that I need to know now. Sure, I'm sure she has her own version of events that is different from my husband's. But, I am comfortable enough with what my husband told me (the trust factor) that I do not need her version.

 

I understand that you are worried that you might run into her somewhere. And that just might happen sometime. Deal with it when it happens. I would hold my head high and who cares what she says/thinks.

[confusedinkansas]

CIK, Just outta curiousity, why would you want to man you had an affair with to get run over by the "karma bus?"

 

Because he's an @ss. Because he's a serial cheater & he should get what's coming to him. Because he treated me like ****.......

 

With that all said - it is still water under the bridge!! My marriage is working out fine NOW.

[confusedinkansas]

.

So, if she has moved on, and I hope she has, why be angry, or frightened, or embarassed, to return my phone call? Avoidance, in and of itself, is a manifestation of fear, and unfortunately, a very prevalent character trait among cheaters.

 

Not out of fear. She's probably not afraid of you .

Because it's not necessary to RE-HASH what's in the past. That's why they call it PAST. Be mature enough to just let it go & be happy you have a good marriage now.

[delirious]

Delirious, I appreciate your honesty. But why run? Why hide? If you love the man and he loves you, why not separate from your spouses and shout it from the rooftops? Why be in secret? It is the secretiveness that is soooooo....disturbing and truly, immature to me. Own your choices, or why did you/are you making them?

 

Thanks, I am genuinely trying to help you see.

 

I do love him very much, but it is not the thing to do just because you love someone, to chuck everyone away that easily, there are others to think of. And yes, I should have thought of that, but sadly I didn't. I felt such an incredible pull to him and he me, that it quickly got out of control,. I have never done it before and neither has he,and it has resulted in my telling my husband that I no longer love him, so pain all round. I too am suffering a great deal. He (MM) however loves his children very deeply and could not bear to hurt them or his W. If it were just me and him, I would be dancing in the street. I cannot imagine if W found out about me, I do not think I would be able to live here. YOu should consider moving, that would be my advice. A new start.

[bentnotbroken]

The benefit of forgiveness -- which is considerable, imo, and what Christians are called upon to do -- does not require actually saying "I forgive you" to the person who has wronged you. True forgiveness happens in the heart. It also provides a clear path to knowing what to do should we run into that person in future.

 

Requiring the other person to acknowledge or hear that she has been forgiven is not part of any Biblical precept.

 

Sparks can and should achieve her closure without speaking to the exOW.

 

 

You are so right. It Christ doesn't require us to say it to any one's face. As long as the heart is sincere. I guess what I see is Spark's need to face her. I did say it to her face, but it wasn't a closing point for me....it is for Spark. It has nothing to do with whether I think(or anyone thinks)that what Spark is trying to do is the right thing, she isn't me or you. She says she needs to face this. I think she is stronger than she gives herself credit for, but this is what SHE NEEDS.

 

I could care less if the ow in my situation believed me, acknowledged my pain, my kids pain or even her own families pain, facing her was something I needed to do. The only thing I am concerned with is the length of time that has past. There emotional distance for the ow. I told her in my first post that I thought she(Spark) had received the only answer she would get. That doesn't mean I don't understand her need to do it.

[jwi71]

I cannot go into the future with fear in my heart that they will reconnect. That is not acting or feeling as if I am healed and in a position of strength or security. The very real possibilities exist that they, I, he and she will run into one another sometime in the future. I refuse to fear that moment.

 

Yet you do fear it. I am not blaming or condemning your fear...just pointing out you DO fear it. My questions would center around WHY you fear "running in to her"...Why do you need that meeting to be planned and controlled?

 

 

So, if she has moved on, and I hope she has, why be angry, or frightened, or embarassed, to return my phone call? Avoidance, in and of itself, is a manifestation of fear, and unfortunately, a very prevalent character trait among cheaters.

 

Key word "if". Maybe she hasn't moved on....

Additionally...WTF is she going to talk about with you? Forgiveness?

I'm not sure your seeing both sides of the coin here...

 

Why avoid a controlled situation, a cup of coffee forcryin'out loud, when the prospects remain for an uncontrolled situation?

 

Because meeting her no matter what you think is UNCONTROLLED. All it has to do is get nasty and she can set you back to square one. And if she starts saying:

 

"OMG your H is a stud in bed...I loved it when he came in me"

"We're stilling sleeping together ya know"

 

Oh I know...you WONT let it get nasty but Spark...you get upset in this THREAD...I wouldn't go looking for trouble and that's what this is. Nothing good comes of this. LET IT GO.

[bentnotbroken]

Not out of fear. She's probably not afraid of you .

Because it's not necessary to RE-HASH what's in the past. That's why they call it PAST. Be mature enough to just let it go & be happy you have a good marriage now.

 

 

It is interesting how everyone considers your lack of closure rehashing. You say it's been two years, that's a long time, but I have seen on here AP not being able to move on after 2, 3, and even 5 years, yet you should move on. There was a poster here once who had been the ow for over 15 years:eek: the MM had told her he wasn't leaving. In a since you would think she would understand that what she wanted to happen was a closed case, yet she hung on. I wonder why. Could it be because it wasn't closed for her? I wonder.......

[confusedinkansas]

It is interesting how everyone considers your lack of closure rehashing. You say it's been two years, that's a long time, but I have seen on here AP not being able to move on after 2, 3, and even 5 years, yet you should move on. There was a poster here once who had been the ow for over 15 years:eek: the MM had told her he wasn't leaving. In a since you would think she would understand that what she wanted to happen was a closed case, yet she hung on. I wonder why. Could it be because it wasn't closed for her? I wonder.......

 

Because it IS re-hashing the past. It's going back to somewhere 2 years ago.

[joyz]

 

Avoidance, in and of itself, is a manifestation of fear, and unfortunately, a very prevalent character trait among cheaters.

 

.

 

you are overthinking this. talking to you is just probably not one of her top priorities as it is for you right now.

 

IMHO, when and if she ever calls you will be:

 

1. she is at happy place in her life and

2. wants to make amends to all the wrongs she has done in her life

 

but in order for 2. to happen she must feel that she had done you wrong. that is if she intentionally tried to take your H away from you. however, if your H lied to her all along and lead her on, she won't feel like she owes you an apology.

[Spark1111]

I find it.....rather extraordinary that the OW can have pain, fear, unrequited emotions, heartbreak, (which I so do unterstand as a BS) and the majority believes she should just be.....left alone, unspoken to, who cares if I have forgiven her, she may not want or care, and she remains unimportant to the scheme of things as they stand now.

 

I, too, had pain, fear, rollercoasting emotions, heartbreak, betrayal, devastation, and have worked hard to forgive, heal, reconcile.

 

If she ever has the courage to call me, I would return her phone call in a heartbeat. That is who I am. A grown up.

 

When three people are in a triangle, all three get hurt. The major difference is I did not know I was in one.! So other than my husband, who works hard every day to show me he is a better man, one who can be trusted, she gets a free pass? Is that how OW wish to be perceived, as children who can't handle the consequences of their choices?

 

Had he chosen to leave me and marry her, we would be talking regularly. We would all HAVE to be grown ups for the sake of the children.

 

An almost two year emotional and physical affair, and she gets a pass from a return phone call, a cup of coffee and a mature conversation?

 

Most of you cannot relate to the irony of this? The double standard? OW should be avoided at all costs because they could steal your man again?

[confusedinkansas]

JW said it pretty well.......There are a LOT of "What If's" in this whole scenario.

 

jwi71 said: Because meeting her no matter what you think is UNCONTROLLED. All it has to do is get nasty and she can set you back to square one. And if she starts saying:

 

"OMG your H is a stud in bed...I loved it when he came in me"

"We're stilling sleeping together ya know"

 

Oh I know...you WONT let it get nasty but Spark...you get upset in this THREAD...I wouldn't go looking for trouble and that's what this is. Nothing good comes of this. LET IT GO.

 

Spark - You cannot be certain of what kind of a hornets nest you'll walk into. I actually applaud the OW in this scenario. Good for her for not entertaining the idea to bring pain BACK into her life. Sorry guys!! I hope she's moving past this & hoping to god that you just drop it.

Actually, IF I were in your husbands shoes I'd ask you to just let it go. Every time you bring up contacting this woman HE has to re-live it too.