I called OW twice and guess what?

[bentnotbroken]

Because it IS re-hashing the past. It's going back to somewhere 2 years ago.

 

 

AAAhhh we so agree. It is the past. Her past. If doing what always seemed normal and makes the most sense was something that we all did at all times, Sparks H wouldn't have wondered and the ow wouldn't have been w/ a married man. We as humans tend to do what we want no matter the consequences and whether or not it appears right to others peering into our lives....wouldn't you say?

[stuckinoz]

I find it.....rather extraordinary that the OW can have pain, fear, unrequited emotions, heartbreak, (which I so do unterstand as a BS) and the majority believes she should just be.....left alone, unspoken to, who cares if I have forgiven her, she may not want or care, and she remains unimportant to the scheme of things as they stand now.

 

I, too, had pain, fear, rollercoasting emotions, heartbreak, betrayal, devastation, and have worked hard to forgive, heal, reconcile.

 

If she ever has the courage to call me, I would return her phone call in a heartbeat. That is who I am. A grown up.

 

When three people are in a triangle, all three get hurt. The major difference is I did not know I was in one.! So other than my husband, who works hard every day to show me he is a better man, one who can be trusted, she gets a free pass? Is that how OW wish to be perceived, as children who can't handle the consequences of their choices?

Had he chosen to leave me and marry her, we would be talking regularly. We would all HAVE to be grown ups for the sake of the children.

 

An almost two year emotional and physical affair, and she gets a pass from a return phone call, a cup of coffee and a mature conversation?

 

Most of you cannot relate to the irony of this? The double standard? OW should be avoided at all costs because they could steal your man again?

 

 

I don't think the other woman should be avoided at all costs...BUT I do think that it has been 2 years! You really can't just let it go. You need to have the satisfaction of staring her in the face & letting her know that YOU WON! You don't have a clue that it will be as a movie would play out (that's how you're describing the "cup of coffee" scenario) Real Life does not play out like the movies & everyone lives happily ever after & you & she have nice pleasant conversation.

 

You talk here like she is less than a huma being. She deserves to still be treated with some sort of respect. SHE is a human being too.

 

I agree with a few others here - You haven't given ANY thought to where she is in her life. Perhaps she's like A GREAT DEAL of the cheaters out there that has learned a VERY valuable lesson, has decided "NEVER AGAIN" & is working at repairing HERSELF. Why can't you just let her have that peace? It's over. It's done. Close the book.

[confusedinkansas]

AAAhhh we so agree. It is the past. Her past. If doing what always seemed normal and makes the most sense was something that we all did at all times, Sparks H wouldn't have wondered and the ow wouldn't have been w/ a married man. We as humans tend to do what we want no matter the consequences and whether or not it appears right to others peering into our lives....wouldn't you say?

 

I'm not sure I 100% agree with you. There are some out there - YEP that give no regard to others in their daily lives - whether it's in an affair situation or not!!

BUT i do think that as humans we falter, we make poor judgement decisions, we screw up!! - right * wrong * or indifferent - It happens.

[confusedinkansas]

And...I'll continue what I was saying.....

 

AFTER we have made these poor judgements......Why can't we be allowed to repair ourselves. Our hearts! Our minds! Do we not have the right to become a better person? Or are we forever damn'd as the OW & to hell with our feelings. FOREVER!!!

[Trimmer]

Thanks Bent. you get it. I really don't care how she percieves it, or her feelings regarding it. I NEED to say it. Yes, this is strictly about me and my closure.

Then say it. Say it to the wind, say it to your Husband, shout it from the rooftops. Decide honestly if you feel that way in your heart, and say it to yourself. You are the one who needs to hear it, believe it, and the one to whom who you owe absolute honesty.

 

So, if she has moved on, and I hope she has, why be angry, or frightened, or embarassed, to return my phone call?

Why do you assume that she is? I wonder which idea would disturb you more: this idea you have that she is cowering in childish (since you keep insisting that you are acting "grown up" by comparison...) fear and anger, or the idea that she just doesn't care at all, that you don't matter any more, you are as irrelevant as a telemarketing call, and that it doesn't really make any difference to her whether she hears you or not.

 

Avoidance, in and of itself, is a manifestation of fear, and unfortunately, a very prevalent character trait among cheaters.

 

Why avoid a controlled situation, a cup of coffee forcryin'out loud, when the prospects remain for an uncontrolled situation?

Conversely, why facilitate a forced, artificial meeting, when she doesn't really care any more?

 

Part of maturity is owning the choices we make in life, regardless of the consequences, regardless if it hurt others. It doesn't really matter. I am in a good place. I hope she is too.

She probably is. But the fact that she probably doesn't care to expend energy in seeing you doesn't mean she's not a "grown up." It seems like you feel otherwise, but that's my take.

 

I find it.....rather extraordinary that the OW can have pain, fear, unrequited emotions, heartbreak, (which I so do unterstand as a BS) and the majority believes she should just be.....left alone, unspoken to...

I don't believe she should be left alone because you owe her any consideration or that she "deserves" anything from you.

 

But I do believe that:

...she may not want or care, and she remains unimportant to the scheme of things as they stand now.

 

What I think is a shame is that she so clearly still occupies a place in your thoughts, your heart, your mind, and that you cling to your connection to her so tightly. I am concerned not for her, but for you.

 

When three people are in a triangle, all three get hurt. The major difference is I did not know I was in one.! So other than my husband, who works hard every day to show me he is a better man, one who can be trusted, she gets a free pass? Is that how OW wish to be perceived, as children who can't handle the consequences of their choices?

So again, you minimize her as a human being by considering yourself as the grown up, and her as the child.

 

Had he chosen to leave me and marry her, we would be talking regularly. We would all HAVE to be grown ups for the sake of the children.

But he didn't, and you're not. But you're still acting as if that's how it happened.

 

An almost two year emotional and physical affair, and she gets a pass from a return phone call, a cup of coffee and a mature conversation?

 

Most of you cannot relate to the irony of this? The double standard? OW should be avoided at all costs because they could steal your man again?

You miss the point entirely. This is not about: you should leave the OW alone because she gets a pass.

 

This is about: she is not a factor that is anywhere within your control. She may not care, she may be hostile, she may be an embarrassed, fearful childlike mess. None of that is within your control, and so your dependence on a response from her for your closure is ultimately damaging to your own recovery. And further, some BS's (I was one once, although I don't identify myself that way any longer...) have found that a path exists to forgiveness, moving on, and looking forward to the future without having to make that contact with the OP that you consider so critical.

 

That's just my advice, if it's of any use to you. Best of luck in your recovery.

[confusedinkansas]

Trimmer - I am standing at my computer applauding you. That was VERY well put. Not a put-down....not bashing....not hateful comments!!

I was thinking a lot of those same things. You just put it all so well in one post.

[jj33]

Trimmer that was spot on. As good as it might feel to say something to the OW in person, Spark will have to give herself closure.

 

Spark maybe subconsciously part of it is that you want her to see that you are a real person, that you are competent and mature and to show her that she did her best but she didnt get you down. You and your H have survived this and you are a big enough person to forgive her.

 

But it doesnt look like you are going to get that chance. And really as Trimmer said, the only person that needs to know that is you.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm not sure I 100% agree with you. There are some out there - YEP that give no regard to others in their daily lives - whether it's in an affair situation or not!!

BUT i do think that as humans we falter, we make poor judgement decisions, we screw up!! - right * wrong * or indifferent - It happens.

 

 

I do believe I said we all make wrong choices. That we do what we want instead of what is best.

 

And...I'll continue what I was saying.....

 

AFTER we have made these poor judgements......Why can't we be allowed to repair ourselves. Our hearts! Our minds! Do we not have the right to become a better person? Or are we forever damn'd as the OW & to hell with our feelings. FOREVER!!!

 

I don't remember ever saying anyone was damned, doomed or devalued. AP don't have a monopoly on sins of the past coming back to bit us in the azz when we least expect it. It happens to all of us. As one of the posters stated, somethings Sparks can't and shouldn't control. I would guess that would be the same for the ow. How is she supposed to control the actions of another when her past is brought up to her again. She can't. I am sure that the ow has every right to be pissed off, just as Spark does. Whatever actions either woman decides to take, is the path that they should be on. If Spark is never meant to talk with ow, she won't. If ow is meant to face Spark, then she will.

 

I don't have a clue what you are or aren't supposed to endure in your future. For me it is neither here nor there. I will still say the same thing, Spark, I wouldn't do it, but I understand your need to.

[confusedinkansas]

 

I don't remember ever saying anyone was damned, doomed or devalued..

 

BNB - I didn't say you said that. I was merely tossing out a "Question" - "Thought"...It wasn't directed at anyone in particular

[bentnotbroken]

BNB - I didn't say you said that. I was merely tossing out a "Question" - "Thought"...It wasn't directed at anyone in particular

 

 

My bad:o:o

[confusedinkansas]

That's ok ya silly goose

[Reggie]

I think you are projecting your own values and sense of marality onto this woman. I had a hard time understanding how the OM in my situation could look at himself in the mirror and wanted to contact him. In retrospect, if i did meet him now, I would thank him for relieving me of my XWW.

But, I have come to realize that many folks walking this earth have entirely different values re integrity and empathy.

There are those among us that really do not care at all about the effects of their actions on others.

I think the fact that this was a woman who was willing to lie and cheat in the first place is a pretty clear indication that you would not get the response you want from her. Unless she has had an epiphany and lots of therapy, you would probably just get a lot of hurtful stuff said to you.

[JeezLouise]

When three people are in a triangle, all three get hurt. The major difference is I did not know I was in one.! So other than my husband, who works hard every day to show me he is a better man, one who can be trusted, she gets a free pass? Is that how OW wish to be perceived, as children who can't handle the consequences of their choices?

 

The only one in the triangle who NEEDS to prove something to you is your H. She doesn't have to show you anything. The OW doesn't get a free pass - but there is no reason why she has to endure additional censure from the BS, either, just because the BS has decided that the OW didn't suffer enough consequences. You have no idea what she has lived through, and it really is none of your business, either. Your H is the one you need to be concentrating on, and whether or not he has suffered enough consequences to please your sense of justice as it pertains to your marriage. But you simply don't have a relationship with her, so why are you trying to forge one?

 

Had he chosen to leave me and marry her, we would be talking regularly. We would all HAVE to be grown ups for the sake of the children.

 

Not necessarily, and not necessarily after 2 years. I don't chit chat with my kid's stepmother. When I have issues to discuss with him about our child, then I call him - not her. We don't interact. We talk maybe 3 times a year.

 

An almost two year emotional and physical affair, and she gets a pass from a return phone call, a cup of coffee and a mature conversation?

 

Most of you cannot relate to the irony of this? The double standard? OW should be avoided at all costs because they could steal your man again?

 

No. It isn't avoiding her. It's about NOT inviting other people into your marriage. If you want the OW in your marriage and occupying space in your mind (leaving less space for things that REALLY matter in your life), then keep asking her in.

 

Besides, a man can't be stolen unless he wants to be. The OW isn't a magician who gets a man who is "ungettable".

[NoIDidn't]

I hate to say this but what makes you think the OW even cares to be "forgiven" by you? Don't be a martyr. It has been TWO YEARS - even if you haven't moved on, she has. Do you really want a confirmation that you meant nothing to her? (before, during or after the A?)

 

And these phone calls might even be giving her some sort of "sick pleasure" knowing that she (the OW) and the A is still creating a Major Impact on your life (deny it if you want - but if the OW and the A wasn't an issue you wouldn't be bringing it up). Don't give her that satisfaction.

 

TOWinNYC, we don't agree on much, but I agree with much of this!

 

The benefit of forgiveness -- which is considerable, imo, and what Christians are called upon to do -- does not require actually saying "I forgive you" to the person who has wronged you. True forgiveness happens in the heart. It also provides a clear path to knowing what to do should we run into that person in future.

 

Requiring the other person to acknowledge or hear that she has been forgiven is not part of any Biblical precept.

 

Sparks can and should achieve her closure without speaking to the exOW.

 

This is what I was going to say when I read she wants to forgive her to her face. That's not necessary. We are to SEEK forgiveness, not SEEK to GIVE it! Going out of my way to tell someone that I forgive them, says a whole lot about ME, not about them. Its really condescending. What does the Bible say about a haughty (condescending) look and pride?

 

If she ever has the courage to call me, I would return her phone call in a heartbeat. That is who I am. A grown up.

 

Stop it Spark. You are already framing the situation as if you are better than her. You are not seeking for tell her you forgive her. It seems you are seeking to put her in her place.

 

When three people are in a triangle, all three get hurt. The major difference is I did not know I was in one.! So other than my husband, who works hard every day to show me he is a better man, one who can be trusted, she gets a free pass? Is that how OW wish to be perceived, as children who can't handle the consequences of their choices?

 

Again, seeking to frame it as you the big, bad adult, and her the widdle, helpless and easily mislead (by your H, mind you) child.

 

Yes, she gets a free pass using your logic. Your H is the only one that needs to prove anything to you. She owes you nothing other than respecting the boundary of your marriage.

 

Most of you cannot relate to the irony of this? The double standard? OW should be avoided at all costs because they could steal your man again?

 

There is no irony. You don't have the right to do what you presume. In fact, it seems you are more concerned that she might steal your man again and want the chance to warn her off.

 

Please stop this madness. If you are getting this upset in a thread, you don't need to go anywhere near this woman. The A has been over for more than two years, she is no longer the OW in your life or marriage. She shouldn't have this hold on you.

[Lyssa]

Wow! Trimmer - that was really good!

[jj33]

NID excellent thread. Spark it seems your need to be the "adult" and the mature one, who behaves better than others, is a theme for you. In the way that you dealt with your H (or as you related it in your original threads) and in the way that you are talking about the OW.

 

Maybe you feel shortchanged because you make it a point to be gracious and follow the rules while others around you dont?

 

Maybe you resent the fact that you had to spend so much time cleaning up H's mess with the pregnancy issue and the disruption caused to your family and marriage?

 

Whatever it is, its not about the OW. And yes its clear if you ever spoke to her that you would be condescending.

 

Do you have a right to be angry with her? Yes. Of course you do. But she doesnt have to let you into her life to hear it.

 

And again the real issue is that this should be directed at your H.

 

You keep saying your marriage is great but I wonder. It may be great on the surface but maybe you still carry a lot of resentment. Maybe you are tired of being the one who always has to be in control?

 

None of this is going to be solved by speaking to the OW.

[taylor]

OK, maybe I'm being dense, but I still don't get WHY you need to contact the OW after 2 years?

 

You say you need to tell her you forgive her...and you need to do it to her face? Is that the bottom line?

 

Why? Why do you feel the need to tell her you forgive her? If you got the chance to say to her face, "I forgive you", how will it make you feel? What will you gain by telling her that? You will walk away with what?

 

Did it ever occur to you that the OW may not even think about you or your H any longer? Did it ever occur to you that she may have forgiven herself, doesn't feel she needs your forgiven (she hasn't asked for it), and has moved on?

 

If you truly want to forgive the OW, do it by staying out of her life. That's probably what she would want more than anything.

 

By contacting her, you give her the impression IT AIN'T OVER YET. You wouldn't be forgiving her..you would be taking another opportunity to rub her face in the mud with the affair. By now, she has cleaned the mud off her face and all she wants to do is move on.

 

If she really needed your forgiveness to move on, she would be the one contacting you for closure.

[JeezLouise]

If all that is important to you, Sparks, is giving her your forgiveness, then send her a card. Hallmakr makes a million.

[bentnotbroken]

If all that is important to you, Sparks, is giving her your forgiveness, then send her a card. Hallmakr makes a million.

 

 

That's a great idea.

[Lizzie60]

I haven't read the thread .. but if I were you I would move on.. forget about her..

 

Why would she return your call.. why would she want to talk to you..

 

Why, if you're sooooo over this A, would you want to talk to her..

 

[taylor]

That's a great idea.

 

I'll second that idea!

[Lyssa]

If all that is important to you, Sparks, is giving her your forgiveness, then send her a card. Hallmakr makes a million.

 

Now that's a thought!

[confusedinkansas]

This is the first thread here I have ever read where the majority of the posters are of the same opinion.

 

OP - You came here for advice......or maybe you came here for someone to validate what you were going to do anyway. I don't know.

I'd honestly be a little leary if I were you about contacting this other woman. You have no idea what kind of fall-out could happen from such an encounter.

 

I don't recall reading............What does your HUSBAND think of all of this? Is he for the idea? Opposed? Since you are still throwing his mistress in his face OR are you keeping a secret from him?

[Spark1111]

He is fully aware and I have his complete support. Whatever it takes to heal.

 

Look, she's never going to call me back, and I am okay with that too.

 

But, IMHO, she should have. None have convinced me it was not the grown up thing to do.

 

I get the zillion reasons posted here as why she won't, can't couldn't and shouldn't, but I still think she should have returned my call.

[confusedinkansas]

But the question is......Will you continue to "stalk her" until she does?