Guys do you notice other girls?

[clv0116]

Men want to justify why they do the things they do and hold women to a higher standards.

 

I don't see anyone getting upset if their girlfriend glances at a fella on the sidewalk.

[carhill]

Hell, my wife even talked about them. BFD. She, up until recently, went home with me. Non-issue and will always be so. My god.

[icemann12]

helly eah i do, i would never do anything, but ill look at other girls, as im sure girls do too with guys.

[annieo]

yup, they do

[LucreziaBorgia]

Where's Camille Paglia when we need her.

 

WORD. I'd love to see her jump in on this debate.

 

And... understanding and embracing the male and masculinity doesn't make me mannish. It makes me that much more of a woman. I guess one would have to have read Paglia to understand that. Some of get it, anyway.

[grogster]

Thank you. I don't hate men at all. I quite love them and I guess that's why I have some of the hurt I do. But I feel like I make valid points that people rather ignore and attack me then discuss the idea I bring up.

 

What really gets me at the end of it is we sit here and defend men on biology and ignore women for their biology or seem to expect women to rise above biology when we give me escuse to be passive and weak. ANd we wonder why women are more mannish today. Perhaps men aren't getting the job done.

 

To love something you must first understand, and JS you simply don't "get" men and women. Instead of looking at each person individually, you view all men through a rigid, distorting gender prism: You're a Gender Fundamentalist, an Ayatollah of Desire.

 

And your lamentations over people refusing to "discuss" your rigid ideas is, to put it mildly, self-serving. Discussion, the mutual exchange of ideas for mutual betterment, is an impossibility with you--as it is with all fundamentalists. In your cold, lonely world, you're right and the many who disagree with you are wrong. What is there to discuss?

 

Fortunately, (with the exception of a few angry 19-year old Birkenstock -wearing Women's Studies Majors in Ivy League Schools) most men and women do not subscribe to your rigid androphobia. Desire and sex are too rich and glorious to be reduced to rhetorical stick figures in some gender morality war playing-out in your head.

 

I notice attractive women, and I hope to continue doing that until the day I die.

 

Eros rules.

[annieo]

WORD. I'd love to see her jump in on this debate.

 

And... understanding and embracing the male and masculinity doesn't make me mannish. It makes me that much more of a woman. I guess one would have to have read Paglia to understand that. Some of get it, anyway.

 

I get it, many others do, I wish, I hope.

Time for some truth, meeting of minds and mutual understanding and an end to gender wars.

So tiresome, boring, and misleading, these little boxes we are supposed to fit into.

[mental_traveller]

And I have heard the statement before about "women should hope their guy looks at other women" before. And frankly that statement comes of completely arrogant and selfish. And like guys get a free pass to indulge in bad behaviors while as a woman I should be happy about this and smile and still be sweet and open to him. We expect women to control their own actions while men get a free pass for the sake of being a guy. So frustrating. I hope I come back as a man. Seriously, you guys have it so much easier.

 

P.S. I said "notices other hot women", not "looks at". You deliberately misquoted me.

 

Can you explain how is it arrogant, selfish, or bad behaviour to notice other women?

 

This thread is "Guys do you notice other girls?" Not "Guys, when you are out with your wife, do you blatantly disrespect her by gawping slack-jawed at the cleavage and ass of every hot babe that walks by?"

 

People need to learn to read, and debate honestly, instead of distorting, misquoting and generally setting up ridiculous straw man arguments.

[Jersey Shortie]

To love something you must first understand, and JS you simply don't "get" men and women. Instead of looking at each person individually, you view all men through a rigid, distorting gender prism: You're a Gender Fundamentalist, an Ayatollah of Desire.

 

I get women fine. I however agree that I don't "get" men. Because to me it seems what men say is true and what they do are different things.

 

And your lamentations over people refusing to "discuss" your rigid ideas is, to put it mildly, self-serving. Discussion, the mutual exchange of ideas for mutual betterment, is an impossibility with you--as it is with all fundamentalists. In your cold, lonely world, you're right and the many who disagree with you are wrong. What is there to discuss?

 

How are you or any one else here any less rigid in your own ideas? You believe what you believe and you certainly arne't going to change it anymore then myself just because it's discussed over a message board. It's not fair or right to make it seem like I am the only one that holds onto what I believe is true. You do too Grog. And there are things other people say that I do agree with and discuss view points with. Usually it breaks down that people stop discussing my ideas and rather take personal attacks on me.

 

Desire and sex are too rich and glorious to be reduced to rhetorical stick figures in some gender morality war playing-out in your head.

 

I do think desires and sex are rich and glorious too. And I don't think I reduce it to anything you described. I don't think it's wrong to question the status-qou.

 

I notice attractive women, and I hope to continue doing that until the day I die.

 

Let me ask you, why? Why do you hope to do so until the day you die? Because it makes you feel good? Makes you feel more like a guy? Makes you more sexual? I am just curious because you say that pretty proudly from my interpratation.

[Jersey Shortie]

P.S. I said "notices other hot women", not "looks at". You deliberately misquoted me.

 

 

 

I didn't deliberately misqoute you. What is the difference between "noticing" and "looking at"?

 

 

Can you explain how is it arrogant, selfish, or bad behaviour to notice other women?

 

I don't know if I think it's arrogant. I do think it's kind of selfish and bad behaviour.

 

Some women get off on guys out with other girls checking them out.

[MissHollywood]

Some women get off on guys out with other girls checking them out.

 

Not me. I don't like being "checked out" by such guys. I don't get any "benefits" from that.

[MeaganRaye]

The funniest thing is, she thinks she's making valid points and that people agree.

 

Classic JS.

I agree w/ everything she is saying.

[MeaganRaye]

If a man didn't notice, there would be a likely chemical imbalance in the brain. Men are biologically wired to notice attractive females. It is a remnant of what has kept our species alive and thriving and growing.

 

Sure, men can control it to the extent that their girlfriend won't notice but that by no means implies that they are blind to attractive females.

 

No amount of trying to fit biology into an artificial sociological box is ever going to work. Hence the struggle between what we are, and what we strive to be.

 

Our biological imperative is to mate and propagate the species. All of that 'love', 'commitment', etc stuff are things we created to try to distance ourselves from the fact that at our core, we are driven by animal instincts.

 

You can wish all you want that your man will love only you, want only you, notice only you, and his brain will shut out every other female but you - but it will never happen, unless you were to lobotomize him and/or subject him to medications that will alter the brain chemistry so that he will lose the mating impulse altogether.

 

Love your man for who he is and accept who he is and understand that underneath all of the romance and roses, you are dealing with a human being. I'm sure if you did, he would be far more likely to control the input out of love for you rather than obligation.

 

 

I will never accept this, hence why I choose to remain single until I die

[LucreziaBorgia]

I hope that one day you will find happiness. There are men out there who do not outwardly show that they notice other females, and they do devote themselves fully to their partners regardless of what goes on inside their private thoughts. Some of them don't even like porn! These guys are not the norm, but they are out there. There may just be one out there for you.

[carhill]

Yes, and you (MR) might find one such man who doesn't even mind you looking at other men

 

BTW, LB's treatise is wonderfully elegant in its simplicity. Truth generally is

[Jersey Shortie]

Well, if there is one thing I have learned from LS that it only ever matters what the man wants, needs or is naturally programmed to do. That doesn't seem to be used for women as justifcations for certain behaviors.

[grogster]

Well, if there is one thing I have learned from LS that it only ever matters what the man wants, needs or is naturally programmed to do. That doesn't seem to be used for women as justifcations for certain behaviors.

 

Learned? JS, with all due respect, you've learned little on LS. You hold dear fixed, deep and impacted presumptions about gender that all the posts in the world cannot shake. In fact, you don't even listen.

 

You're not here to "learn". Rather, you're here to preach your deep seated gender-hostile screed to one and all.

 

And woe to us who don't share your Faith.

[Trimmer]

If a man didn't notice, there would be a likely chemical imbalance in the brain. Men are biologically wired to notice attractive females. It is a remnant of what has kept our species alive and thriving and growing.

 

Sure, men can control it to the extent that their girlfriend won't notice but that by no means implies that they are blind to attractive females.

 

No amount of trying to fit biology into an artificial sociological box is ever going to work. Hence the struggle between what we are, and what we strive to be.

 

Our biological imperative is to mate and propagate the species. All of that 'love', 'commitment', etc stuff are things we created to try to distance ourselves from the fact that at our core, we are driven by animal instincts.

 

You can wish all you want that your man will love only you, want only you, notice only you, and his brain will shut out every other female but you - but it will never happen, unless you were to lobotomize him and/or subject him to medications that will alter the brain chemistry so that he will lose the mating impulse altogether.

 

Love your man for who he is and accept who he is and understand that underneath all of the romance and roses, you are dealing with a human being. I'm sure if you did, he would be far more likely to control the input out of love for you rather than obligation.

 

I will never accept this, hence why I choose to remain single until I die

 

Actually, it sounds like you do accept the validity of the statement, otherwise, why would you choose to remain single "until you die..."?

 

I assume (correct me if I'm wrong - I'm not intending to throw stones here, I'm trying to understand you) that you mean that you will never accept "that kind" of a partner. But the fact that you are choosing to remain single forever must mean that you don't believe it to be possible to find any other kind of partner, therefore, essentially: all men are this way, now and for the rest of my life...

[Jersey Shortie]

Learned? JS, with all due respect, you've learned little on LS. You hold dear fixed, deep and impacted presumptions about gender that all the posts in the world cannot shake. In fact, you don't even listen.

 

You're not here to "learn". Rather, you're here to preach your deep seated gender-hostile screed to one and all.

 

And woe to us who don't share your Faith.

 

I don't listen? You base your assumption on what? Because I don't share in *your* faith of belief? Bit hypocritical to critique me when I hardly doubt you are sitting there changing your thoughts and views based on what others have shared themselves here on LS Grog. But correct me if I am wrong.

 

What makes your opinions and experiences more valid then mine or more right? Just because I don't think the same way you do or have the same life experiences. I doubt your changing your views on women just because some women posted differently then what your experience was. Maybe you are, but I really doubt it. Don't single me out to critize me for something all posters at LS do, you included.

 

Often, guys get excused for certain behaviors because they are *guys* and they are reacting like a "guy". Can you deny that is not what is often stated?

 

It's okay for guys to check out other women. Because of his *biology*. But it's not okay for me as a woman to be hurt by it. I'm just insecure. I'm this or that. It couldn't possibly be my own biology responding right? Even though biologically, that's a clear sign that he has some amount of interest in another female. Doesn't matter if *logically* he is going to leave or not. What matters is he is showing his interest in another girl. But that doesn't really seem to matter because we never give justifications for womanly biological needs (such as the need for having a male partner that is faithful). We always end up saying "well he's a *guy* and it's okay". And then guys will make fun of women for naturally being hurt by his obvious interest in other women. Whether it's through porn or in real life. Logically, most women know he isn't going to necessarily leave. It doesn't mean that it takes way from the very REAL and biological threat. But a man's desire seems to outweigh anything female. And when female express their own biological responses, we get put down. They clearly don't matter. That's the message at least. Go ahead and prove me wrong. I will gladly welcome it.

 

I know YOU don't like hearing it but that seems to be the truth of it. And until I see you discuss the topic instead of attacking me for it, which is usually what you do, I will stand by my points. While women have come a long way, we clearly still live in a world that favors men. Maybe that's the way men want it because I don't really think men want it to be equal so much as them in charge. And while I don't think everything has to be equal, I still want equality. There is a difference.

[amerikajin]

I don't listen? You base your assumption on what? Because I don't share in *your* faith of belief? Bit hypocritical to critique me when I hardly doubt you are sitting there changing your thoughts and views based on what others have shared themselves here on LS Grog. But correct me if I am wrong.

 

What makes your opinions and experiences more valid then mine or more right? Just because I don't think the same way you do or have the same life experiences. I doubt your changing your views on women just because some women posted differently then what your experience was. Maybe you are, but I really doubt it. Don't single me out to critize me for something all posters at LS do, you included.

 

Often, guys get excused for certain behaviors because they are *guys* and they are reacting like a "guy". Can you deny that is not what is often stated?

 

It's okay for guys to check out other women. Because of his *biology*. But it's not okay for me as a woman to be hurt by it. I'm just insecure. I'm this or that. It couldn't possibly be my own biology responding right? Even though biologically, that's a clear sign that he has some amount of interest in another female. Doesn't matter if *logically* he is going to leave or not. What matters is he is showing his interest in another girl. But that doesn't really seem to matter because we never give justifications for womanly biological needs (such as the need for having a male partner that is faithful). We always end up saying "well he's a *guy* and it's okay". And then guys will make fun of women for naturally being hurt by his obvious interest in other women. Whether it's through porn or in real life. Logically, most women know he isn't going to necessarily leave. It doesn't mean that it takes way from the very REAL and biological threat. But a man's desire seems to outweigh anything female. And when female express their own biological responses, we get put down. They clearly don't matter. That's the message at least. Go ahead and prove me wrong. I will gladly welcome it.

 

I know YOU don't like hearing it but that seems to be the truth of it. And until I see you discuss the topic instead of attacking me for it, which is usually what you do, I will stand by my points. While women have come a long way, we clearly still live in a world that favors men. Maybe that's the way men want it because I don't really think men want it to be equal so much as them in charge. And while I don't think everything has to be equal, I still want equality. There is a difference.

 

Women who go around in life thinking "Men are ___________" lose. Every day you are confronted with things you don't control, people whose actions you don't control. But there is a lot you can control. You can control yourself.

 

I don't know you but based on what I've read you seem to live in a state of perpetual victimhood, a state of fear -- fear of what the opposite sex will do to you. Christ, let it go already. Just go out and enjoy people for who they are. Take them for their faults. You can't control it if they piss you off, but you can always hit the real-life 'ignore' button by cutting them from your daily routine.

[amerikajin]

This subject brings to mind one of my many ruminations I've had as of late. I was thinking about the tendencies of males and females and in all of the cultures I can think of, and in all of the other bits and pieces of anecdotal evidence I've been able to gather over my life, it does seem to be that men are indeed more visual creatures than women. I think men are indeed 'programmed' to notice and to be turned on by women physically more so than women are, though I admit I have absolutely nothing empirical to back it up. Just crackpot thinking on my part.

 

However, consider this: men actually REQUIRE intense and sustained physical stimulation in order to have sex. We cannot actually penetrate to initiate sex with a woman unless we are physically aroused. We can fake an orgasm but we can't fake the erection. I realize that women need to get moist, and I would indeed say that women need to feel turned on to have sex. But I think it's biologically more important for men to be aroused at the drop of a hat than it is for a woman. My theory is that men are naturally predisposed to be more visual than women. None of this justifies cheating or humiliating your female partner by drooling over another woman when she walks into your presence, but I think it might explain some things.

[Jersey Shortie]

Women who go around in life thinking "Men are ___________" lose. Every day you are confronted with things you don't control, people whose actions you don't control. But there is a lot you can control. You can control yourself.

 

I don't know you but based on what I've read you seem to live in a state of perpetual victimhood, a state of fear -- fear of what the opposite sex will do to you. Christ, let it go already. Just go out and enjoy people for who they are. Take them for their faults. You can't control it if they piss you off, but you can always hit the real-life 'ignore' button by cutting them from your daily routine.

 

I do control myself. Thanks. Why don't we stick to addressing the points I make instead of making personal assertions about me? Or that easier than addressing the good points I bring up? Because that would actually be admitting to some sort of truth in my idealogies?

 

And yes, I am very guarded when it comes to men. Like you said, you can only control yourself and I learned that most men aren't going to look at for me so I have to look out for myself first. I would love to be an environment where I could be more vunderable with a guy and enjoy him and myself more but that's not a reality. More often then not, I have had the experience that most guys are out for themselves first and they aren't going to be the ones to protect you so you better do it yourself.

 

None of this justifies cheating or humiliating your female partner by drooling over another woman when she walks into your presence, but I think it might explain some things.

 

Just drool over other women behind her back so you don't have to humilate her to her face.

[amerikajin]

I do control myself. Thanks. Why don't we stick to addressing the points I make instead of making personal assertions about me? Or that easier than addressing the good points I bring up? Because that would actually be admitting to some sort of truth in my idealogies?

 

Truth?

 

The truth is that I'm in a personally satisfying relationship and I couldn't care much less what generalizations a stranger over the internet wants to make. It doesn't really matter to me. There's nothing at stake as far as I'm concerned. If you want to say that men are pigs, really, it doesn't offend me. But you're the one who's losing by going from day to day with this attitude. It affects your ability to get close and form strong relationships with men, which is probably what you really want deep down inside, whether you want to admit it or not.

 

And yes, I am very guarded when it comes to men. Like you said, you can only control yourself and I learned that most men aren't going to look at for me so I have to look out for myself first. I would love to be an environment where I could be more vunderable with a guy and enjoy him and myself more but that's not a reality. More often then not, I have had the experience that most guys are out for themselves first and they aren't going to be the ones to protect you so you better do it yourself.

 

Is it possible that maybe your insecurities drive men away? Is it possible that maybe your screening criteria for men isn't that good? In an ideal world we wouldn't need internal radars and interpersonal bullsh*t detectors...but this is the world of the real, not the ideal. Take the bad with the good, I say. You could learn an awful lot from negative experiences but I get the sense that you're too angry and bitter to learn anything. You just want to be angry and you want the world to sympathize with your anger. The reality is, people might care for a moment or two, but they'll move on. I think you need to let go of your bitterness and insecurities and concentrate on having a positive relationship with someone.

[Jersey Shortie]

Try reading and comprehending what I wrote and less extrapoltation based out of your own insecurities. I never once called men pigs, that is all you. And I never once said I didn't want a close relationship with a man. Again, that is all you. You don't know what my "screening criteria is". Neither do you have any real insight into what my insecurities are or how I function in a relationship. What I do want, is for guys to show understanding and an attempt to meet their partners on a level that goes beyond his own selfish desires. To really try to understand women instead of making excuses for why certain things are okay based on being a guy. It would certainly be easier to be more positive about men if I saw efforts on their part to meet women in the middle instead of shruggin their shoulders, saying their a man and not being open to change, partnership and compromise.

 

Seriously, save your personal attacks. I am not sitting you personally attacking you. What is the point in doing so with me? I've spoken of my experiences on what I have come to learn from them. You don't like them? Too bad. Doesn't make them any less true.

[amerikajin]

Try reading and comprehending what I wrote and less extrapoltation based out of your own insecurities. I never once called men pigs, that is all you. And I never once said I didn't want a close relationship with a man. Again, that is all you. You don't know what my "screening criteria is". Neither do you have any real insight into what my insecurities are or how I function in a relationship. What I do want, is for guys to show understanding and an attempt to meet their partners on a level that goes beyond his own selfish desires. To really try to understand women instead of making excuses for why certain things are okay based on being a guy. It would certainly be easier to be more positive about men if I saw efforts on their part to meet women in the middle instead of shruggin their shoulders, saying their a man and not being open to change, partnership and compromise.

 

Seriously, save your personal attacks. I am not sitting you personally attacking you. What is the point in doing so with me? I've spoken of my experiences on what I have come to learn from them. You don't like them? Too bad. Doesn't make them any less true.

 

Like I said, I'm pretty happy with my dating life. But even if I were to become single again, I wouldn't go out back into the world of dating with the kind of fear and cynicism that you seem to have (I'm only going off of your posts, which are perpetually dripping with cynicism).

 

For the record, I didn't say that you were calling men pigs. I was just saying that you can say or think or write whatever you want about men -- it doesn't bother me. I'm happy with my life.

 

But someone who reads your posts could be forgiven easily for assuming that you're rather unhappy with your situation. What are you going to do about that? Being cynical isn't likely to be a successful dating strategy.