"When good people have affairs"

[stillafool]

Anybody read and/or have any experience of family therapist Mira Kirshenbaum's book "When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts and Minds of People in Two Relationships"? Mira guides the MM through the process of making a decision which woman to choose. I have given this book to my MM who seems to be pretty hopeful that it might make a difference in our relationship.

 

I am so sick and tired of being the other woman, so this book is my last hope. If things don't change after he has read it, I have decided to try to end our relationship.

 

:lmao:I'd really love to see if he's sitting at home reading this book while his wife cooks dinner. Or, reading it at work and his co-workers looking on. Why don't you ask him for the book back. He probably threw it away. Where would he keep your book without getting caught with it?????

[stillafool]

Interestingly enough the author of this book thinks one should not tell the wife in order to not inflict unnecessary pain. This point of view is a major reason why my MM is receptive to reading the book, since it is his view as well.

 

Whether his wife understands it or not, I think it is in her best interest that a choice is made. This way neither she nor I will have to share a man.

 

Yes don't include the wife in the decision that you and her H will make about her life. Just wait until the last minute and hit her between the eyes with what you and her H have decided to do with her life.

[Shadowcat]

"her H"

 

I can't believe the way you Americans talk about spouses as possessions.

 

I am in no way making a decision about her life. He is (hopefully) making a decision about his life, which will have an impact on the lives of the women involved with him.

[noforgiveness]

"her H"

 

I can't believe the way you Americans talk about spouses as possessions.

 

I am in no way making a decision about her life. He is (hopefully) making a decision about his life, which will have an impact on the lives of the women involved with him.

 

 

If an affair is such a non issue where you live then TELL HER. Let her help make a decision on HER MARRIAGE instead of some unknown entity that is having an impact on her life. Put your cards on the table. It's no big deal right.

[Owl]

"her H"

 

I can't believe the way you Americans talk about spouses as possessions.

 

I am in no way making a decision about her life. He is (hopefully) making a decision about his life, which will have an impact on the lives of the women involved with him.

 

Well...if you're deciding to have an affair with her husband...and especially if you're considering marrying him...you ARE making a decision about HER life.

 

You never answered my earlier question about how acceptable affairs are in YOUR country?

 

You make it sound like Americans are somehow 'wrong' here...but you've not explained to me why you need to hide the affair from his wife if it's an accepted practice in your country?

[noforgiveness]

I mean it's certainly nothing to be ashamed of. It's all good right? Have you told your friends and family you are involved with a married man?

[Hi.P.O'Crit]

"her H"

 

I can't believe the way you Americans talk about spouses as possessions.

 

From Post 15

Whether his wife understands it or not, I think it is in her best interest that a choice is made. This way neither she nor I will have to share a man.

 

It's just an expression right?

[noforgiveness]

From Post 15

 

 

It's just an expression right?

 

 

Well that woman is HIS WIFE but he certainly is not HER HUSBAND because it is her boyfriend.:laugh:

[Shadowcat]

My understanding is that affairs are much less common here in my country. We don't even have a word for the terms "affair" and "other woman". I am not saying that affairs are okay here, just that if they are serious, we are much more prone to divorce.

 

I have thought about letting his wife know, but decided that that is up to him, not me to make that decision.

 

Sorry, Owl, I missed your earlier post. (And yours too, Wildsoul, happy to hear that there are Americans who think like we do!) My MM and his wife are American, thus the issue.

 

Noforgiveness, yes, all my friends and family know of my relationship with a MM. They have never expressed anything morally against it, except that he should make up his mind. Even my parents who are approaching 80 support our relationship. The only one who does not approve, which is not surprising, is my ex, since he wants me back.

[Shadowcat]

"It's just an expression right?"

 

Not the way it was used in post 27.

[boldjack]

My experience with the Scandinavian view of marriage is , of course , limited to one, two month stay in Sweden, but there seemed to be a trend to divorce, as opposed to infidelity.

[Shadowcat]

Boldjack, you made a good observation.

[noforgiveness]

My experience with the Scandinavian view of marriage is , of course , limited to one, two month stay in Sweden, but there seemed to be a trend to divorce, as opposed to infidelity.

 

 

So basically he wants his cake and eat it too because divorce is no big deal. Maybe affairs aren't as common because most women there are not willing to put themselves in the otherwoman position.

[Shadowcat]

Noforgiveness, divorce is a big deal to him because he is American.

 

We don't expect to become the other woman here, because we expect a divorce if the feelings are strong. If the feelings are not strong, the relationship will die soon enough of itself.

[Hi.P.O'Crit]

I'm curious to know how long he and his wife have lived in your country? Assuming they both live there. The culture difference could be a factor in his decision as well.

[Shadowcat]

It's a LDR.

[Owl]

Noforgiveness, divorce is a big deal to him because he is American.

 

We don't expect to become the other woman here, because we expect a divorce if the feelings are strong. If the feelings are not strong, the relationship will die soon enough of itself.

 

Here's the breakdown.

 

He's American. His wife is American.

 

Ergo...you're forced to deal with THEIR view of infidelity and marriage, rather than the Scandinavian view that you're accustomed to.

 

To THEM...infidelity is wrong. Cheating on your spouse is wrong. Being the OW is wrong (no offense to the OW/OM out there...just stating this is the 'standard value' for most American relationships).

 

Bottom line...they're not going to view this as casually as you do. Especially not his wife, who (apparently) doesn't see this coming.

 

While his actions are honorable by your culture's standards...his actions are NOT honorable by his own. He is knowingly, intentionally behaving dishonorably by his own values. Does that not bother you?

 

Given your cultural reference, your gift of that particular book makes great sense. But I would caution you not to expect too much from it...because the odds are high that he's not going to make great use of it.

 

I don't recall...are he and his wife going to remain in your country, or are they visiting for a limited time period? Is there a time factor by which he's got to make his choice?

[Hi.P.O'Crit]

Being an LDR I think you've fallen for a man that views you as someone to occupy his time till he goes home to his wife and family. If he has a family.

[Shadowcat]

Owl,

I agree with you that I now have to deal with the American view. That does not mean however that my view has changed. I go by my own moral compass. I judge his actions by my own moral compass. I guess I have always been a bit of an anarchist.

 

I do believe he will read the book. Whether it will have an impact on him or not is yet to see, as well as what his eventual decision will be. I do understand there is a high probability he will stay in his marriage, since he was not unhappy there prior to our relationship.

 

Maybe I am being naive, but I am only doing what I can to end the affair in one way or another.

[Shadowcat]

Hipocrit,

MM and I have a history from way back when I used to live in the States, before he was married.

[jwi71]

I have talked to my MM about the book but deliberately not about my insights from it, since just like with a movie I don't want to influence his experience of the book. You know, like you just give a teaser of a movie to make someone want to watch it, you don't say too much because that will ruin the movie.

 

huh? You send him a book to help him end his M yet you don't want to interfere? Nah...cop out. Why didn't you have an honest talk with him again about what YOU learned?

The book is actually written mostly for the MP, so why would I use it to draw conclusions about my life?

 

Not what I meant. I meant why don't you decide on your own what you want? Do you even know or is what you what dependent upon his choice? If what you want is derived from his wants...then you have abdicated the decision to him. Ignore what you think/hope he wants - what do YOU want?

 

Considering this is an LDR, do you expect him to file for D and then move overseas? Or are you expecting to join him here in the States (if he's here)? That's a tall order for either of you.

[Hi.P.O'Crit]

It seems that you're following the best course of action available to you. Just prepare yourself to not have him in your life. Might be best if you start distancing yourself from him. If you haven't done so.

 

And as Owl mentioned, be careful with a man that easily changes his values to suit a situation.

[noforgiveness]

Hipocrit,

MM and I have a history from way back when I used to live in the States, before he was married.

 

and he still went ahead and married her...

 

protect your heart and end this.

[Owl]

Owl,

I agree with you that I now have to deal with the American view. That does not mean however that my view has changed. I go by my own moral compass. I judge his actions by my own moral compass. I guess I have always been a bit of an anarchist.

 

I do believe he will read the book. Whether it will have an impact on him or not is yet to see, as well as what his eventual decision will be. I do understand there is a high probability he will stay in his marriage, since he was not unhappy there prior to our relationship.

 

Maybe I am being naive, but I am only doing what I can to end the affair in one way or another.

 

Shadowcat, you need to consider something here.

 

You're unhappy with how "us Americans" are judging you and your actions by our "American" moral compass because it paints your actions unflatteringly. You've made comments about how "americans talk about spouses like property" and such that point this out.

 

But...it's ok for you to judge his actions by your moral compass. Does it occur to you that this is "ok" because it suits your desires? And you disagree with others doing it when it DOESN'T suit your desires?

 

Not flaming you here...just point out to you that if it's wrong to judge by one's own internal moral compass...that must apply across the board, yes? Or, if it's ACCEPTABLE to do so...that applies to everyone else as well, yes?

 

Do you personally feel that this is all "OK"? It's "ok" that he's hiding this from his wife? Lying to her, either directly or by ommission? Do you think that these are honorable actions? Do you think that these would be acceptable if you were in her position in this situation?

[Shadowcat]

Remember what the book is called: When Good People Have Affairs. He is a good man. I think this might very well be the issue here. That is why he has a problem ending his marriage. It is against his morals to have an affair. He had never expected that to ever happen to him. He does not want to hurt his wife whom he still loves.