"When good people have affairs"

[clv0116]

I can't get on board with all the cheater-hate here. I do agree it's not good behavior and all but I see all sorts of what I would consider very bad behavior in relationships. Why single out this particular one for extra bile?

 

How about the woman who denies her husband sex, or who suddenly puts out in only vanilla, rationed and scheduled doses? Where is the scorn for her? What is the appropriate response for a man in that situation?

 

What about the old "you don't give me what I need" ploy, where she denies intimacy on the basis that he's not giving her what she needs, but when he asks what she needs she just says she doesn't know?

 

I'd hesitate to judge this situation from halfway around the world, life is complicated.

[tami-chan]

A Red Light is a pretty big absolute' date=' if she was a bus driver. LOL. Speed Limits are another matter. Maybe they are more like affairs - its all good until you get caught. LOL.[/quote']

 

 

LOL...funny...in many third world countries, a red light is just a warning...not an absolute stop!

[Reggie]

I can't get on board with all the cheater-hate here. I do agree it's not good behavior and all but I see all sorts of what I would consider very bad behavior in relationships. Why single out this particular one for extra bile?

 

How about the woman who denies her husband sex, or who suddenly puts out in only vanilla, rationed and scheduled doses? Where is the scorn for her? What is the appropriate response for a man in that situation?

 

What about the old "you don't give me what I need" ploy, where she denies intimacy on the basis that he's not giving her what she needs, but when he asks what she needs she just says she doesn't know?

 

I'd hesitate to judge this situation from halfway around the world, life is complicated.[/quote

 

Those are f'd up situations, as well. Criticizing cheating and criticizing the situations you describe, are not mutually exclusive concepts.

We have not discussed serial murder, either. Does not mean folks don't consider it wrong, as well.

[dobler33]

if you have never been a "cheater", if you have never been through the experience for which this particular forum was created, then you need to be posting in another forum - perhaps one for people who fundamentally disagree with infidelity. then there would be no argument. read the label. it will let you know what this forum is about - "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner." not sure why we have to keep defending ourselves on a forum which is definitionally for our support and discussion. find somewhere else to express your opinions. if you've never been here then you don't have any place to judge. i've been trying to be reasoned and compassionate about this since joining, but honestly, people. if you have a problem with these kinds of situations, there are PLENTY of forums in which you may vent. accept that we are human and also deserving of support, and if you cannot, then find someplace else to rant.

[Gamine]

if you have never been a "cheater", if you have never been through the experience for which this particular forum was created, then you need to be posting in another forum - perhaps one for people who fundamentally disagree with infidelity. then there would be no argument. read the label. it will let you know what this forum is about - "support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner." not sure why we have to keep defending ourselves on a forum which is definitionally for our support and discussion. find somewhere else to express your opinions. if you've never been here then you don't have any place to judge. i've been trying to be reasoned and compassionate about this since joining, but honestly, people. if you have a problem with these kinds of situations, there are PLENTY of forums in which you may vent. accept that we are human and also deserving of support, and if you cannot, then find someplace else to rant.

 

 

I have been on both sides of the fence. Support, discussion, and opposing points of view create awareness and understanding. Simply because the points of view are not creating a 'support group' atmosphere does not mean that value cannot be garnered by all who participate.

[dobler33]

and btw, reggie, what gives you the moral authority to equate infidelity with serial murder? this suggest that you have a personal investment in this discussion that far exceeds the boundaries of which you speak. were you hurt by infidelity? know someone who was? are these your religious/political views? whatever the case, you might consider examining your reasons for posting on this forum. it seems clear that they do not adhere with the established invitation that heads the page.

[Gamine]

Reggie, GEL IS RIGHT, WE ow Do love our mm... If we didnt, we wouldnt be here... Thanks Gel!

 

You are free to love anyone you choose. You are free to love someone else's husband. What I find enlightening about this forum is how and if the mm love the ow in return... and in some cases... the posts suggest that they may never have. If I were in a relationship with so many unknowns I would find this information invaluable and guide myself accordingly.

[dobler33]

gamine, you have been a considerate and illuminating poster. i do not always agree with your views but because i know that you have been where i've been - which is, again, the established definition of the forum - i am willing to receive your dissenting views with an eye to what i can learn from them. you are loving and compassionate, and even when you are laying down what might be uncomfortable or disagreeing views you maintain that love and compassion. that's very different from someone who is only on here to slap people around - especially when they have no common experience from which to speak.

[cottoncandy]

Very well put Dobler.

 

I've always found it hard to understand how some people can be so judgmental without knowing the whole story. I've always heard their are two sides to EVERY story. I've searched the whole internet in search of a support group or groups or forums/message boards that are more or less as you say, support groups for people who find themselves in affairs..with little luck sadly to say. Oh sure their are all your quote 'sex and dating sites' for extra material affairs, but thats just trying to fix people up, not really a support group for ones that are already their.

Many people say they would never find themself's in this situation. Funny, I used to say that too. Point is , one never knows what the future holds. I have learned to be very withdrawn about my personal situations from the time I have been online, because sadly not many people will ever be willing to see that maybe their is a good reason for the infidelity of others. I've learned its usually a lost cause trying to change anyones opinions , and that certainly, EVERYONE is entitled to their own. It still amazes me though how some , not all, can so openly attack others that they dont even know. As you stated sometimes its better to just move on if the only thing that can be posted is hostility. Am I saying dont ever disagree on a topic... of course not. Topics are ment to be ' debated'.. but rationaly I would hope.

[boldjack]

Dobler, What is the difference between you trying to bully non-ow's off this forum and those bs's whose opinion differs from yours? This is a free forum , all can express their opinion. As an ex OM, and WS I sypathize with SC, but believe that "support", doesn't necessarily mean agreement.

[wildsoul]

Nevermind.

[Shadowcat]

Gamine,

I can't believe you have the audacity to ask me if I am truly of Swedish bloodline and living in Sweden and then don't answer my such questions. Is there something you don't want us to know?

[Gamine]

Gamine,

I can't believe you have the audacity to ask me if I am truly of Swedish bloodline and living in Sweden and then don't answer my such questions. Is there something you don't want us to know?

 

I have dual citizenship and have resided in both countries my entire life. I am 48 yrs. old, female, weigh 120 lbs, am 5'4", my favorite color is pink, I am a successful pastry chef and former corporate executive, love to be kissed on the nose by my dog, love a good hamburger and double chocolate shake, dance around to Jamiroquai, love the rain, don't like liars/users/cheats, am a hard worker, was a former model, have light brown hair and hazel eyes...

 

Did I leave anything out?

[Reggie]

I never compared cheating to serial murder(although I do feel cheating is one of the most severe forms of emotional abuse((ask your friend how she is feeling, dobler. Nice empathy for a therapist.)

This forum is not limited to those who support cheating and do not criticize the behavior.

[Reggie]

Gamine,

I can't believe you have the audacity to ask me if I am truly of Swedish bloodline and living in Sweden and then don't answer my such questions. Is there something you don't want us to know?

 

 

Yes, such "audacity". How dare anyone not answer SC questions. No wonder she was driven to cheat.

[Gamine]

Yes, such "audacity". How dare anyone not answer SC questions. No wonder she was driven to cheat.

 

Reggie, you really made me smile. I love your posts....

[Shadowcat]

Unfortunately a very common form of emotional abuse on this board is the BS abusing the OP emotionally. Gamine and Reggie, you are good at this, and very supportive of each other's emotional abuse as well. Thought about looking into yourselves and trying to deal with the emotions which are making you act out on others instead?

 

It would be valuable as well if you did not twist around what people are sharing and use it for your own purpose of beating OP on the head. Isn't there enough material out there so you don't have to make things up?

[Reggie]

Your stuff is quite good, as well, G. It's more articulate and kinder than mine, yet the points are made with better emphasis.

[Gamine]

It is utterly unimaginable to me that God isn't in so may hearts. I am so enriched because of God's love and my life guided by such understanding and compassion. Even when I am hurt I remember the greater reasons for all things and work to become more enlightened and more forgiving.

 

Honestly, I never met or conversed with anyone who openly laughed at the idea of God, who found it obtuse, and absurd until I came to LS. I feel happy that I have come here but am also sad.

 

I am not a church goer. God is in my heart and my soul.

 

This gives me a point of view that, understandably, may elude others who do not have this same state of being. I believe in an afterlife. I believe that what we do here on this earth determines who we are. I believe that who we are determines our afterlife. I believe that we are all perfect but do imperfect things and are given the opportunity to move beyond imperfection.

 

I believe that we have a duty to do no harm. I do not want anything at anyone else's expense and cannot justify having anything if it has brought someone else pain and darkness in their life. There are many people we can love. There are those that we believe are 'just for us' because of the intensity of what is happening... be it real... be it authentic... or be it just because two people were in the wrong place at the right time. Two people who, unless they were in a fragile place inside of themselves, would not have given one another another glance.

 

We can love who we love or we can love authentically. I totally get the whole idea of the OW. Been there. Done that. But I did that when I was young and learned a whole bunch about the subtleties of what it made it right and wrong. I was focused entirely on myself and felt...hey, this MM is marketing himself as single. I didn't make him look outside of his marriage... he is doing it all on his own. I didn't cause it. 'We' just need to play this out and 'I' want him for what 'I' want him for.

 

I did not give a crap about his wife. I did not really give a crap how I complicated his life by my being a seductress. Yes, bash me all you want... but I was being a seductress. I could have walked away and I should have. Not because 'I' could get hurt, but because me using someone's husband for companionship, emotions, and sex is taking something that doesn't belong to me... It is irrelevant whether he agrees to it or not.

 

Integrity is what drives me now. Love is what drives me now. Compassion.

 

So, I may be heavy handed with my absolutes. I LOVE the diamond earrings in Cartier's window in NYC. It doesn't mean I reach in and take them. Sure, I sure would look pretty in those earrings and I can imagine myself walking around wearing them and feeling like I'm all that and a bag of chips. But in reality, I don't need to take them. I can put the work into myself and my life and buy them free and clear. Then, when I wear them I do myself proud.

[Reggie]

Unfortunately a very common form of emotional abuse on this board is the BS abusing the OP emotionally. Gamine and Reggie, you are good at this, and very supportive of each other's emotional abuse as well. Thought about looking into yourselves and trying to deal with the emotions which are making you act out on others instead?

 

It would be valuable as well if you did not twist around what people are sharing and use it for your own purpose of beating OP on the head. Isn't there enough material out there so you don't have to make things up?

 

It's the lack of empathy and the selfishness displayed that gets to me , SC. Some of the cheaters are so focused on the discomfort they created, a discomfort that is nowhere near the level of pain they cause BSs, that they have no consideration for BSs.

In your case, for example. Not once have you mentioned feeling badly for hurting the wife and, possibly kids. If you would wake up and stop abusing this guy's wife, it would be nice.

I've pointed out some of what I see as the inconsistency in the stroy you are telling: Great guy(but he lies and cheats); Swedes, universally, have no problem with cheating; longterm LDR's are not longterm affairs(still cannot figure that one out).

It's not abusive to question these inconsistencies.

[Shadowcat]

When my ex fell in love with another woman during our relationship, I was devastated not because she had stolen something from me or that he had betrayed me, but because he loved another women not me. I did not want to live any longer, because I did not have his love anymore. I grieved the loss of his love. This is what I can't get my head around, how anyone can think a person belongs to them just through marriage, how anyone can talk about the OP as taking something that is not theirs.

[OWoman]

You are free to love anyone you choose. You are free to love someone else's husband. What I find enlightening about this forum is how and if the mm love the ow in return... and in some cases... the posts suggest that they may never have. If I were in a relationship with so many unknowns I would find this information invaluable and guide myself accordingly.

 

It's funny how often BSs describe an "affair fog" and talk about the CS "rewriting marital history" to cast it as more horrid than they experienced before the A; while on this very board we get to see reborn CSs doing just that with rewriting the history of the A, to recast it as "s/he never meant anything to me; it was just about sex" once the A is over - a convenient lie to help them reconstruct their M and to convince the BS that they are still invested in the M so that the BS doesn't leave them. There are few CSs who stayed with the BS who are honest enough to admit that they "settled" for something less; that the A - while not perfect, and perhaps not sufficient to lure them away from the whole package that "M" entails (family home, comforts, friends, etc) - was of value to them and the connection to the AP deep and meaningful. I guess it's an inevitable part of the rebonding process - fake it till you make it - but it does tend to bias the picture presented.

[Shadowcat]

I've pointed out some of what I see as the inconsistency in the stroy you are telling: Great guy(but he lies and cheats); Swedes, universally, have no problem with cheating; longterm LDR's are not longterm affairs(still cannot figure that one out).

It's not abusive to question these inconsistencies.

 

The above are examples of the wordtwisting going on here.

 

Yes, he is a great guy, but not a perfect guy, he does lie and cheat to his wife, which I agree is a big nono in my world as well.

 

I am not going to go there about the Swedes, because I have said nothing like the above at all.

 

Neither have I said anything about LDR not being longterm affairs. I don't know where you get these things from. Of course we are in a longterm affair, MM and I. This is what I said, with the emphasize on him being American and the culture crash:

 

"Did you miss out that I am in a LDR with an American who lives in America? Thus my problem. Thus the culture crash. Of course his behavior conflicts with my values, that's my problem. That's why I am trying to do something about it."

 

I am starting to wonder why you have so obvious problems understanding my posts. Is my English that bad or is it your reading comprehension, because you could not purposely be twisting my words now, could you?

[boldjack]

Gam. Depending on how good of a pastry chef you are, I might kiss you on the nose as well. Can you make sweet potato pie?BTW, during my (all too brief) visit to Stockholm, I had occasion to meet Swedes from all socio-economic groups. I found them to be well-educated, generous, moral, and amusing. The stereotypical Swedes, depressed Bergmannesque vikings, or Big-boobed, blonde, sex-kittens, I found few of. It's a fine country.

[wildsoul]

It's funny how often BSs describe an "affair fog" and talk about the CS "rewriting marital history" to cast it as more horrid than they experienced before the A; while on this very board we get to see reborn CSs doing just that with rewriting the history of the A, to recast it as "s/he never meant anything to me; it was just about sex" once the A is over - a convenient lie to help them reconstruct their M and to convince the BS that they are still invested in the M so that the BS doesn't leave them. There are few CSs who stayed with the BS who are honest enough to admit that they "settled" for something less; that the A - while not perfect, and perhaps not sufficient to lure them away from the whole package that "M" entails (family home, comforts, friends, etc) - was of value to them and the connection to the AP deep and meaningful. I guess it's an inevitable part of the rebonding process - fake it till you make it - but it does tend to bias the picture presented.

Thank you for saying that! It's what I think every time I read these laboriously narcisstic posts from BS's who like to tell OW's how MM's never loved the OW and on and on. It's such an obvious case of re-writing history, which is simply human nature to do. I see that as a normal part of the rebonding process, as you put it so clearly, and that's FINE. But when the BS's here use it to make the OW's feel bad, it really irks me.

 

It it makes the BS feel good about taking back their CS, then it's served it's purpose. But for BS to come here an laud it over OW's as a universal truth isn't right.

 

Again, thank you for saying it so clearly, OW.