"When good people have affairs"

[Mimolicious]

This is an excellent point Reggie. Shadowcat why don't you bring this point up to your MM and see what he says. His wife does deserve the same happiness you and MM have found in each other. Why don' t the two of you be fair and free her up to move on.

 

 

Ha! This was done to me... And when my H realized all the "MOVING ON" that mimolicious could do, tables turned! His mistress (well girlfriend now) is not loaded with "sparks" any longer.

[Mimolicious]

I have brought this point up with MM. I agree with you two here. I could never do what he is doing to any spouse of mine. I would have been divorced long ago and thus freed my partner to move on.

 

I bought the book as a desperate hope that it would help us to get through this limbo position we are in, where he is not able to break up with me nor I with him.

 

I wasn't married with my ex, but we had a 25 year long relationship. That is as much a divorce as far as the kids are concerned and in other ways as well.

 

I am not going to go into details, but it is obvious to me that what MM says is true, his wife is deprived of parts of her marriage she used to have. Sure enough, she got half a man, but so do I. I am not happy about this. That is why I am desperately trying to find a way to change it.

 

Of course, my country's morals do not equal my morals, but we are all affected by the culture we live in.

 

 

 

And you will always have half of that man because in reality if he has children with his W (I forget) he will always have to be a part of their life too. I know that you that one cant help who one falls in love with but why carry on with all the baggage???? What starts bad ends bad!

[norajane]

Since he's in America and you're in Sweden, even if he divorces, what is the resolution to your distance problem? I'm assuming he won't move since he has children he won't want to leave. Are you thinking you would move and leave your family? And would it even be possible for you to move unless you are married to him?

 

Perhaps some of his fence-sitting is due to the long distance nature of this affair, and he's not willing to jump right from one marriage to another just to be with you full time.

[Mimolicious]

Love is patient, love is kind.

It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.

It is not rude, it is not self-seeking.

It is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails.

I Corinthians 13:4-8

 

 

I think many people in A use this to their advantage though...

[GreenEyedLady]

MM is not done reading it yet. So it is too early to see if he will take any action or remain in status quo.

 

Do you REALLY believe that your MM will read that book and suddenly have an epiphany?

 

You have your eyes closed.

 

It's one thing to accept things and quite another to be in denial.

 

The thing about these R's is that you have to keep your eyes open and not lie to yourself.

 

And I think the only person you're lying to is yourself.

[Shadowcat]

Do you REALLY believe that your MM will read that book and suddenly have an epiphany?

 

You have your eyes closed.

 

It's one thing to accept things and quite another to be in denial.

 

The thing about these R's is that you have to keep your eyes open and not lie to yourself.

 

And I think the only person you're lying to is yourself.

 

Well, I read reviews of the book, and some people actually have had epiphanies, so I figured it was worth a try. Better than doing nothing.

 

You know, people, we all have to walk down the road, one step at a time. It is like the parent trying to save the kid from experience, it doesn't work that way.

 

I thought this was a support site, not a flaming site. I am disappointed in you, GEL, you should let me learn by my own mistakes, it is not that that much time will be lost by him reading the book.

[Shadowcat]

SC, I haven't read that book but have heard good things about it. It has also been very positively reviewed by critics and in the media.

 

I disagree with some posters that giving MM a book is not going to achieve anything. I gave my H (then my MM) a book that someone (a BS...) recommended and it did help clarify things for him, in that he recognised patterns and structures in his M that were deeply unhealthy, and discussed those with his counsellor. Reading the book may not have the same effect on your MM, but it certainly can have an effect if he's receptive to thinking critically and openly about his situation - if only to have what he's feeling inside "normalised" and validated, named and acknowledged so that he can understand how it all hangs together. Right up close, in the immediacy of it all, it's sometimes just too intense to make sense of.

 

Good luck - I hope things work out for you.

 

Thank you, Owoman, for your supportive words.

[bentnotbroken]

Well, I read reviews of the book, and some people actually have had epiphanies, so I figured it was worth a try. Better than doing nothing.

 

You know, people, we all have to walk down the road, one step at a time. It is like the parent trying to save the kid from experience, it doesn't work that way.

 

I thought this was a support site, not a flaming site. I am disappointed in you, GEL, you should let me learn by my own mistakes, it is not that that much time will be lost by him reading the book.

 

 

So it isn't just BS who get accused of flaming:rolleyes:. Seems like that word gets used when you don't like the type of support offered to you. All support isn't cotton candy and rainbows. Sometimes the truth isn't pretty, popular, or preferred. I don't always agree with GEL, nor she me, but she is right on the money about who is being lied to and who is doing the lying.

[jwi71]

So it isn't just BS who get accused of flaming:rolleyes:. Seems like that word gets used when you don't like the type of support offered to you. All support isn't cotton candy and rainbows. Sometimes the truth isn't pretty, popular, or preferred. I don't always agree with GEL, nor she me, but she is right on the money about who is being lied to and who is doing the lying.

 

I'll quasi-disagree bent.

 

Like in another post about this...Shadowcat ISN'T looking for advice, she wants permission/validation.

 

So ANYONE whether it be a BS, WS, OM/OW who disagrees with what she wishes to hear is a "hater" and a "flamer" and "not supporting" her.

 

In short...pointless.

[Shadowcat]

I'll quasi-disagree bent.

 

Like in another post about this...Shadowcat ISN'T looking for advice, she wants permission/validation.

 

So ANYONE whether it be a BS, WS, OM/OW who disagrees with what she wishes to hear is a "hater" and a "flamer" and "not supporting" her.

 

In short...pointless.

 

This is not true. I have listened carefully to the advice Owl and Mino have given me for example. I have agreed with them, although I have stated that I am not ready yet to go down the road of NC. Still I have recognized that they probably are telling the truth and I have integrated every word they said into my conscious mind. They said it with support, not flaming.

 

GEL used a very put down style of talking to me. Making me feel like I a am some kind of idiot. I might be naive perhaps, but I am not an idiot. Trying to do something about one's situation even if it proves futile is better than doing nothing. If MM reads the book and does nothing, that will probably help me move forward on my path to NC faster than if I had not asked him to read the book.

[Shadowcat]

I wish the people who are flaming on this site would stop hiding behind the "uncomfortable truth" issue. Look at how you are talking instead. One can say uncomfortable truth in a supportive way. And that way it is much more likely to be listened to and have effect. Is it not effect you want or is it simply unloading yourself of an emotional burden?

 

In the 12 step programs it is called "tough love", not "tough hate".

[HisSweetThing]

I wish the people who are flaming on this site would stop hiding behind the "uncomfortable truth" issue. Look at how you are talking instead. One can say uncomfortable truth in a supportive way. And that way it is much more likely to be listened to and have effect. Is it not effect you want or is it simply unloading yourself of an emotional burden?

 

In the 12 step programs it is called "tough love", not "tough hate".

 

I totally agree with you. Others must know that their advice/points-of-view will be better received if they give it in a more constructive way.

[Dexter Morgan]

I totally agree with you. Others must know that their advice/points-of-view will be better received if they give it in a more constructive way.

 

I don't think it really matters to most of these people how the advice or criticism is conveyed.

 

Very few on here realize that they are hurting someone else, or very few on here could care less if they are hurting someone else.

[2sure]

...Very few on here realize that they are hurting someone else, or very few on here could care less if they are hurting someone else.

 

Yep. For the partners it often seems as though the affair happens in a vacuum.

[Reggie]

I, too, have always been somewhat astounded by the almost complete lack of consideration an OM/OW has for the trauma being inflicted on the BS. I don't know how they turn this opart of their brain off. We all have sex drives, attractions, desires, whatever. For some reason, despite these draws, I have never had the desire to hurt someone else like this.

Are there just different types of people that do this? Is their overall philosphy of life just that much different or is it some form of temporary sociopathy?

[Owl]

Reggie, I'd suggest that the same lack of consideration was shown by the MM/MW as well. Perhaps even moreso, since they were (most often) the only ones who "knew" the BS, and/or owed them that consideration or caring.

 

I think it's likely a combination of several possibilities.

 

1. They truly compartmentalize things within their own minds, and convince themselves no one will ever find out, and won't be hurt.

 

2. They deliberately and intentionally refuse to allow themselves to even CONSIDER the possible impacts on the "other side" of the fence.

 

3. They know the possible emotional devestation that could result, but simply decide "it's inot my fault, it's the MM/MW's fault...they're the only one who owed anyone anything". They simply don't care about the damage, period.

 

4. They know, and they agonize over the possible outcomes...but simply put, the "fun" for them outweighs the "bad" that they feel for the BS.

 

5. They know, they agonize...and it eventually leads to the end of the affair.

 

I think we've seen every range of this on this forum.

[silktricks]

I, too, have always been somewhat astounded by the almost complete lack of consideration an OM/OW has for the trauma being inflicted on the BS. I don't know how they turn this opart of their brain off. We all have sex drives, attractions, desires, whatever. For some reason, despite these draws, I have never had the desire to hurt someone else like this.

Are there just different types of people that do this? Is their overall philosphy of life just that much different or is it some form of temporary sociopathy?

 

The reason offered most often is that you can't help who you fall in love with. I've never (personally) held with that, as I believe you absolutely can help who you fall in love with. You do not allow yourself to follow through on an attraction to someone who is unavailable - and of course the converse is also true for the married persons who allow themselves to fall in love with someone other than their spouse.

 

You just don't go there - but unfortunately, many do.

 

But, since SC is already there, it doesn't seem to be really reasonable to go on and on about how she shouldn't have gone there...

[norajane]

But it does seem reasonable, does it not, to go on and on about how she can keep from wasting ANOTHER 4 years on this guy?

 

If she sees those 4 years as a waste, and I don't think she does. If she did, she'd be ANGRY that he's been stringing her along all this time. But she doesn't see it that way.

[Mimolicious]

I don't think it really matters to most of these people how the advice or criticism is conveyed.

 

Very few on here realize that they are hurting someone else, or very few on here could care less if they are hurting someone else.

 

 

Dexter... I could have not said it better. How is it that WE are more hurt, offended and disappointed at text posted on a board by a character with a cute little avatar and yet WE are involved in situations in our real life that affect, hurt, disappoint REAL PEOPLE?!?!??!! (not that anyone here is not real... but unless you guys know something I dont, we cant hit the backspace key in real life, can we there!?)

 

Are we far more concerned about the way a person could deliver an opinion, than in fact the actions that got us in the situation at hand???

 

We are quick to call another fellow poster "Flamer", "Hater", "Scorned", blah, blah,blah... Yet your CHEATING mate can't be called the bad-boy/girl?!??! or you cant be called out on your poor judgement and lack of respect to those who you are hurting????!!! UNFRICKINGREAL!!!!!!!

 

I know that this is a support site and all, and that we should all deliver with respect, but it gets old that once the convo goes pass jumping on the bandwagon- some people just dont want to hear it.

 

I know that your MM's W has no idea of what is going on... but in no time, that poor lady will find out and she will feel like the size of a mustard seed. What self-help book you are going to send her?????? One that says "How to get over it and keep it moving" or one about "How to get my husband to stop cheating"?

 

Sorry... I am just out of Xanax. LOL!

[Reggie]

I love Xanax, and I needed it big time in the early days. I shot the two lowest scores in my career while zoned on that stuff:).

[GreenEyedLady]

Well, I read reviews of the book, and some people actually have had epiphanies, so I figured it was worth a try. Better than doing nothing.

 

You know, people, we all have to walk down the road, one step at a time. It is like the parent trying to save the kid from experience, it doesn't work that way.

 

I thought this was a support site, not a flaming site. I am disappointed in you, GEL, you should let me learn by my own mistakes, it is not that that much time will be lost by him reading the book.

 

I am not flaming you. I'm telling you to open your eyes.

 

And quite frankly, I don't care if you or anyone else is disappointed in me. I call 'em as I see 'em.

 

Book reviews are there to sell books, end of story. I haven't read a review about or even heard of this book.

 

And I don't know ANYONE who based their decision of the fate of their M on a book by a one-time author.

 

You've been in this forum all of how long? Perhaps you should listen to what's being said to you.

 

I said open your eyes. You're lying to yourself. Perhaps your best bet is accept things the way they are. At least you'll be living authentically.

[tami-chan]

I don't think it really matters to most of these people how the advice or criticism is conveyed.

 

Very few on here realize that they are hurting someone else, or very few on here could care less if they are hurting someone else.

 

 

Of course, it matters how criticism or advice is conveyed! if it didn't, nobody would be calling people mean or flaming or thanking others for being kind or sympathetic. People would just take or leave whats posted on the board. The fact that people respond and respond emotionally means, it matters how these things are meted out.

 

Of course, perhaps in order for one to be able to live with oneself being so mean on the board, it might work to think that the way posts are worded do not matter.

[Shadowcat]

I am not flaming you. I'm telling you to open your eyes.

 

And quite frankly, I don't care if you or anyone else is disappointed in me. I call 'em as I see 'em.

 

Book reviews are there to sell books, end of story. I haven't read a review about or even heard of this book.

 

And I don't know ANYONE who based their decision of the fate of their M on a book by a one-time author.

 

You've been in this forum all of how long? Perhaps you should listen to what's being said to you.

 

I said open your eyes. You're lying to yourself. Perhaps your best bet is accept things the way they are. At least you'll be living authentically.

 

I should have specified that the reviews I was referring to were by WS who had read the book and found it helped them make the decision they were unable to make prior to reading the book. They were not professional reviewers, just ordinary married people involved in affairs.

 

GEL, I appreciate your honesty, maybe I was overreacting to your post. It is difficult to hear the intention behind written words. I do listen to everybody here on the forum, it is just that it is so much easier to hear what people are saying if they say it in a supportive, respectful way.

 

As far as I know, you do not have any personal experience of NC? I just also want to find out first if NC is my only option. Until I am convinced of that, I believe it will be very difficult for me to go down that path.

[Dexter Morgan]

I know that this is a support site and all, and that we should all deliver with respect, but it gets old that once the convo goes pass jumping on the bandwagon- some people just dont want to hear it.

 

Well, some people just need that "you could have had a V8" slap upside the head.

[Gamine]

I love Xanax, and I needed it big time in the early days. I shot the two lowest scores in my career while zoned on that stuff:).

 

Following the infidelity my life has been such a 'natural high' I have no need for any help (sarcasm and a stab at humor).