"When good people have affairs"

[Shadowcat]

Anybody read and/or have any experience of family therapist Mira Kirshenbaum's book "When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts and Minds of People in Two Relationships"? Mira guides the MM through the process of making a decision which woman to choose. I have given this book to my MM who seems to be pretty hopeful that it might make a difference in our relationship.

 

I am so sick and tired of being the other woman, so this book is my last hope. If things don't change after he has read it, I have decided to try to end our relationship.

[sugarmomma]

Anybody read and/or have any experience of family therapist Mira Kirshenbaum's book "When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts and Minds of People in Two Relationships"? Mira guides the MM through the process of making a decision which woman to choose. I have given this book to my MM who seems to be pretty hopeful that it might make a difference in our relationship.

 

I am so sick and tired of being the other woman, so this book is my last hope. If things don't change after he has read it, I have decided to try to end our relationship.

 

 

I wish it was as easy as giving their azzes a book.

 

Good luck! I hope things work out for you.

[babydreamer]

How long have you been with him?? If he is taking good care at home, it'd be hard for him to change his mind. Then again, good luck. Tell us how that work out for you.

[lkjh]

If you are tired of being the OW then leave him. He has already picked the woman he wants.....its his wife. He is married to her not you. The OW is just a side item, the wife is the main dish. Even if you don't want to believe this

[wildsoul]

I hope that works out for you! Although I don't think that buying a self-help book for someone else usually works. If they're not desperately seeking out the info on their own, it's usually because they're not that motivated to change in the first place.

[jwi71]

Why did you give him a book (which he must now hide) instead of talking to him AFTER you read it?

 

What prevented you from talking to him face to face over what YOU learned from the book?

[joybean72]

LMAO@ having to hide the book!

I agree with wildsoul.

[Shadowcat]

"Why did you give him a book (which he must now hide) instead of talking to him AFTER you read it?

What prevented you from talking to him face to face over what YOU learned from the book?"

 

So if I tell you about a good movie I saw, there is no need for you to see it?

[Shadowcat]

If no other result, me knowing that he has the tools to make the decision and doesn't, might help me see where I am at. That is not to be despised of.

[jwi71]

If no other result, me knowing that he has the tools to make the decision and doesn't, might help me see where I am at. That is not to be despised of.

 

Well...I don't think this response will be well received but what the hell...

 

1) You failed to answer, and you are of course under no obligation to do so, why you didn't TALK to him about the book and the insights YOU now have.

 

and

 

2) Why do YOU need HIS input to make a decision about YOUR life and YOUR role in HIS life? Doesn't YOUR opinion/wants/needs matter?

[Gamine]

Everyone has something called free will. Even the married man.

 

In the exercising of this free will he may choose to break his marriage contract with is wife to indulge in two woman. By choice.

 

He may choose to honor his marriage vow. He may choose to leave the marriage.

 

All free will.

 

He may choose to remain married because in the exercising of this free will he asserts that the financial and familial ties are too complex to simply walk away.

 

Again free will.

 

I assure you, your married man understands free will. It takes quite a bit of free will (and egotism) to maintain an affair. It also takes someone who really fundamentally is very much concerned with their own gratification and well being as they see it. A person in an affair, in other words, cares very much about the way they feel and are unusually focused on their needs being met.

 

I'm not going to make any judgments concerning how someone chooses to exercise free will in their life. However, I promise you that he knows what it is because he is doing precisely as he chooses.

 

Now, not unlike his wife, you are asking him to choose between you. She asked him to choose when they married and he explained (through the act of marriage) that he had chosen her. Now, you enter his life and now you are asking him to do that which he had already done with another woman. And, is likely telling his wife that she still is his choice by virtue of remaining in the marriage.

 

Basically, you are asking him to make a commitment to you while he is still committed to another woman. You are asking a man who has migrated to having chosen... to choosing two woman.... to now choose between the two of you. I promise you. He knows what making a choice is because he is married. The self help book is merely a way for you to explain to him that it doesn't mean that he is a bad boy if he loves you and chooses you over his wife.

 

Often times, but not always, MM already know about choice and marriage ... and... choose the affair because it makes their world go 'round. Again a choice. Not necessarily an uplifting choice to the lives of the women involved, but a choice nonetheless.

 

Sometimes MM get the whole thing of choice but want to have their cake and eat it too... and enjoy having the best of both worlds.

[Shadowcat]

I have talked to my MM about the book but deliberately not about my insights from it, since just like with a movie I don't want to influence his experience of the book. You know, like you just give a teaser of a movie to make someone want to watch it, you don't say too much because that will ruin the movie.

 

The book is actually written mostly for the MP, so why would I use it to draw conclusions about my life? Parallell to this I am of course struggling with my own issues, which is the reason I am reading on Loveshack.

 

My MM says he is not comfortable having two women, so if this book can help him find the way out from that, that is great in my opinion. The author claims this is a way by which she has helped many MP.

 

In my opinion, we are doing the responsible thing: trying to end the affair by him either going back 100% to his marriage or deciding to end it and make the affair his primary relationship or, of course, ending both the marriage and the affair. Another way would be for me to end the relationship, but as of now I have not found the strength to do so.

 

In my country AA was not that well known 25 years ago. I told my boyfriend about it, and he went there and has been sober ever since. There is nothing wrong with showing someone the way out, then they have to decide if they want to walk down that path or not.

[noforgiveness]

Maybe what he needs to do is talk to his wife. Tell her about the affair since this life choice involves her and then maybe she can help him decide something that will greatly change her life.

[wildsoul]

In my country AA was not that well known 25 years ago. I told my boyfriend about it, and he went there and has been sober ever since. There is nothing wrong with showing someone the way out, then they have to decide if they want to walk down that path or not.

That reminds me of the boyfriend that I drug to a Sex & Love Addicts Anonymous meeting. He only went once or twice. I realized that since I was codependantly trying to change him by taking him there, that I SHOULD GO. And I did for over 6 years.

[Shadowcat]

Interestingly enough the author of this book thinks one should not tell the wife in order to not inflict unnecessary pain. This point of view is a major reason why my MM is receptive to reading the book, since it is his view as well.

 

Whether his wife understands it or not, I think it is in her best interest that a choice is made. This way neither she nor I will have to share a man.

[Shadowcat]

Wildsoul,

You might remember that I was a member of Al-Anon for eight years. And as I said, I am working with my issues alongside of giving him the book. I ordered another selfhelp book for myself. I will see when it gets here if it is of any help to me.

[Owl]

Interestingly enough the author of this book thinks one should not tell the wife in order to not inflict unnecessary pain. This point of view is a major reason why my MM is receptive to reading the book, since it is his view as well.

 

Whether his wife understands it or not, I think it is in her best interest that a choice is made. This way neither she nor I will have to share a man.

 

I completely disagree with this viewpoint, as will the vast majority of anyone who has actually been in his wife's shoes.

 

It's a great "copout" to avoid suffering the consequences of the affair for the affair partners, but it's hardly "in her best interests". It's ONLY in the "best interests" of the affair partners.

[wildsoul]

Wildsoul,

You might remember that I was a member of Al-Anon for eight years. And as I said, I am working with my issues alongside of giving him the book.

I forgot that, but I'm very glad to hear it! IME, codependance is a life-long issue for some of us. I've been to AlAnon and CODA, too.

 

FWIW, I think AlAnon sometimes encourages women to stay TOO LONG in a passive "learn to live with hm," context. Maybe appropriate for some stay at home moms with a bunch of kids, but NOT for a single woman who would be better advised to LEAVE.

 

I much prefer SLAA because it gets more at the core of love addiction and getting stuck on unhealthy partners.

[Shadowcat]

I have been both the BS and the WS earlier in life, mostly the BS. I have always believed in telling everything up front, in being honest. I will however not pass any judgement on my MM if his morals tell him not to. I will respect his decision.

 

Also in my country marriage and commitment are viewed differently than in the US. One only has a commitment to stay in a marriage as long as that relationship is one's primary love relationship. If the object of love changes, one is obligated to terminate the marriage and move on to the new relationship. A marriage vow is not for life here, only for as long as there is love to back it up.

[Owl]

I have been both the BS and the WS earlier in life, mostly the BS. I have always believed in telling everything up front, in being honest. I will however not pass any judgement on my MM if his morals tell him not to. I will respect his decision.

 

Also in my country marriage and commitment are viewed differently than in the US. One only has a commitment to stay in a marriage as long as that relationship is one's primary love relationship. If the object of love changes, one is obligated to terminate the marriage and move on to the new relationship. A marriage vow is not for life here, only for as long as there is love to back it up.

 

I think that most people nowadays would agree with the "only as long as there is love to back it up"...the problems come about when you don't take the appropriate steps to END the marriage vows before you move on to the next person.

 

If affairs are acceptable where you live...what's the issue? If the view that marriage isn't for life is the "norm"...why would his wife be upset with his choice to be with you? She should just accept it, right?

 

Or is the reality that affairs AREN'T acceptable in your country either?

[wildsoul]

Also in my country marriage and commitment are viewed differently than in the US. One only has a commitment to stay in a marriage as long as that relationship is one's primary love relationship. If the object of love changes, one is obligated to terminate the marriage and move on to the new relationship. A marriage vow is not for life here, only for as long as there is love to back it up.

That's how it is where I live in the states!

[Shadowcat]

Wildsoul,

I will agree that my history shows that I have gotten stuck on unhealthy partners, but I don't agree that I am love addicted because of that. We all need love in our lives. Where does one draw the line for love addiction?

 

My MM has healed my wounded soul immensely. He stood by me for a very long time learning me to trust him, that he would be there for me. He is not perfect, but he is a giant step for me in the right direction of choosing healthy men, believe it or not.

[noforgiveness]

My MM has healed my wounded soul immensely. He stood by me for a very long time learning me to trust him, that he would be there for me. He is not perfect, but he is a giant step for me in the right direction of choosing healthy men, believe it or not.

 

 

HEALTHY MEN??? You are sharing this man with his wife unbeknownst to her. Do you consider him healthy to go home and LIE to his wife day in and day out? To go from your arms to his wifes bed everyday? That's a healthy man???? No that's a really confused, messed up selfish man who doesn't care how bad his actions hurt you or his wife. He just wants what is best for him regardless of the ramifications to you or her.

[boldjack]

Cat, In my opinion, you have two problems. First you need to get another "Author". Any "therapist", who promotes dishonesty, or the maintenance of dishonesty, isn't one ,who will have any value. Second, you need to get another man, because you have completely misjudged this one. He is completely dishonest, totally self-serving and without respect for you or his wife. If he does leave her, how could you trust him to not cheat on you? Regardless of how marriages are viewed in Scandinavia or the U.S,It's been my experience that a regard for integrity and forthrightness is as important to a Swede or Norwegian, as it is to a Yank.

[clv0116]

Sometimes MM get the whole thing of choice but want to have their cake and eat it too... and enjoy having the best of both worlds.

 

Is that some sort of euphemism for "be married AND have sex" or what?