any contact w/ the spouse of MM/W?

[dobler33]

spent the majority of the day composing a response letter to the wife of my xMM, who was in fact a very dear friend of mine pre-affair. her letter was a response to a sort of "i know you can't forgive me but i want to at least put it out there that you are in my heart and i cannot possibly tell you how sorry i am" letter that i wrote last week. her letter was ANGRY and mean. as well it should be. it all feels so icky. anyone else having contact w/ the spouses of MM/W?

[bentnotbroken]

May I ask why you decided to send her a letter? I know you said she was a friend before the A, but was there another reason for wanting to send the letter. I don't know if you have read Spark's thread in infidelity, but she caught a lot of flack for wanting to speak with the OW. She was told that OW owed the BS nothing. I am curious your thoughts as you reached out to BS. I understand if you don't want to answer.

[jj33]

Yes I speak to her but not about the A. Good luck. Im sure it will mean alot to her. It wont make up for the past but at least you are making the effort.

[dobler33]

first of all, i'm kinda new to this - what does BS stand for? i assume from the context that it's the spouse, but i'm curious as to the actual meaning.

 

i wrote to her originally because i had had my last word to the MM, and i felt that the end of things did not really take into account or honor or atone for the fact that it was not just MM and my relationship that had ended, but also a long standing and very important friendship. i had absolutely no expectation that she would read it and be magically healed or forgiving, or even that she would respond. that she did, however mercilessly, was at least a sign of life. i'm conflicted and confused about it, which was why i started the thread.

[bentnotbroken]

BS= betrayed spouse. I see your reasoning now. You had a relationship with her. I am sure you are confused. Your attempt to atone is commendable.

[sugarmomma]

She was angry and mean because she had been betrayed and deceived by the people she loved dearly. I'm sure you can understand this.

 

Were you sending it to try an ease your guilt? Maybe you wanted her to be able to vent how she felt about the a? Whatever your motive, she is probably not interested.

 

Honestly, just put yourself in her shoes and imagine how she feels. She is in a lot of pain that she had no idea she was in for.

 

Too late now since you can't go back and change it but in the future, NC would be a good way to go with her too.

 

Sometimes the best way to make amends is to stay away and make sure you have changed your ways.

[fooled once]

Don't reply and let it go.

 

You two will never be friends again. She will never trust you again.

 

Just let it go and move on.

[bentnotbroken]

She was angry and mean because she had been betrayed and deceived by the people she loved dearly. I'm sure you can understand this.

 

Were you sending it to try an ease your guilt? Maybe you wanted her to be able to vent how she felt about the a? Whatever your motive, she is probably not interested.

 

Honestly, just put yourself in her shoes and imagine how she feels. She is in a lot of pain that she had no idea she was in for.

 

Too late now since you can't go back and change it but in the future, NC would be a good way to go with her too.

 

Sometimes the best way to make amends is to stay away and make sure you have changed your ways.

 

 

I disagree with the assessment of apologies. Without guilt how do you come to terms you need to apologize? She feels it is the right thing to do and it is. All she is asked to do by God is repent and apologize. It isn't up to her how the BS receives it or even accepts it. As a former BS, I get the anger, hurt and pain. And she did face a double betrayal. But the OP did the right thing. I don't think that the OP needs to send answer in response to the BS letter. She did what was right. If the BS comes back looking for help in healing and closure at some point, just find the same integrity and answer the questions she asks truthfully. But for now, just give her some time to heal.

[whichwayisup]

Whatever nice feeling and care she had about you is gone. As her friend, you betrayed her in the worst possible way, it's a double betrayal. Her friend and her husband together..

 

All you can do is let this go, heal and move on. Don't try to reach out to her, right now she probably hates you and alot of her anger is directed at you (as well as also at her husband).

[sugarmomma]

I disagree with the assessment of apologies. Without guilt how do you come to terms you need to apologize? She feels it is the right thing to do and it is. All she is asked to do by God is repent and apologize. It isn't up to her how the BS receives it or even accepts it. As a former BS, I get the anger, hurt and pain. And she did face a double betrayal. But the OP did the right thing. I don't think that the OP needs to send answer in response to the BS letter. She did what was right. If the BS comes back looking for help in healing and closure at some point, just find the same integrity and answer the questions she asks truthfully. But for now, just give her some time to heal.

 

Contacting that woman simply caused her more pain. Leave her alone. If I were the BS I would be saying "If you were really sorry you would have considered me before my H member went inside you".

 

Maybe as a BS you would want to know but how much pain do you really need to endure since you already know your H is a cheater that has no regard for your feelings.

 

The OW owes the BS nothing except to stop effing her H.

[Mr. Lucky]

i wrote to her originally because i had had my last word to the MM

Wouldn't it strike her as a tiny bit insincere that you didn't reach out to her until you were done with her husband? Most BS would perceive that more as an attempt to ease your own conscience and less as apology.

but also a long standing and very important friendship.

So she's dealing with a double betrayal - both spouse and good friend. Why not at least respect her space and let her reach out to you, assuming she'd want to? Again, this seems more about you than her...

 

Mr. Lucky

[whichwayisup]

So she's dealing with a double betrayal - both spouse and good friend. Why not at least respect her space and let her reach out to you, assuming she'd want to? Again, this seems more about you than her...

 

I totally agree. Especially this:

 

her letter was ANGRY and mean. as well it should be. it all feels so icky.

Ofcourse it feels icky. You and her husband created this ickyness and this is just part of the consquence/fallout after DDay (discovery day) and you need to accept it and deal with it.

[Reggie]

As a fledgling psychotherapist, surely you must wonder what is within you that allowed you to enagae in such a hurtful act. Is this atypical for you, the failure to consider the effects of your actions on others?

I had some contact with my XWW's OM. He never apologized, so, at least you did that. But, the damage is done. I hope you are in therapy yourself so you can figure out what is missing within you. You had so many other options, as did your H's "friend".

How do you define friendship? Does it include loyalty and concern for your friend?

[bentnotbroken]

Contacting that woman simply caused her more pain. Leave her alone. If I were the BS I would be saying "If you were really sorry you would have considered me before my H member went inside you".

 

 

****I can appreciate you think you know what all BS need, but some of us really do need to hear from the person who intruded on our lives. And this was her friend as well. She did the right thing. Someone with a conscious and recognizes what she did. She shouldn't contact her again.****

 

 

Maybe as a BS you would want to know but how much pain do you really need to endure since you already know your H is a cheater that has no regard for your feelings.

 

**** How much pain I/she endures has nothing to do with an apology, but the act of cheating****

 

The OW owes the BS nothing except to stop effing her H.

 

****Again what the ow owes a BS will remain a bone of great debate since we each can't/won't see the others point of view.****

[sugarmomma]

****Again what the ow owes a BS will remain a bone of great debate since we each can't/won't see the others point of view.****

 

 

I have been there before that's why I am getting a divorce as we speak. I don't want to hear anything the OW has to say. Makes me want to puke.

[bentnotbroken]

I have been there before that's why I am getting a divorce as we speak. I don't want to hear anything the OW has to say. Makes me want to puke.

 

 

As I have and I wanted to hear every lie out of her mouth. And it didn't make me want to puke, it gave me power. I had already listened to all his lies, so I needed to hear her lies as well. It was fuel for my fire to move on.

[jj33]

She will never forgive you but I still think you should send the letter. In some small part of her heart she probably does want to hear you apologize profusely, even if that doesnt heal the wound, even if she replies in anger that nothing you can say will make up for what happened.

 

Its a gesture and one that your former friendship deserves.

[noforgiveness]

She will never forgive you but I still think you should send the letter. In some small part of her heart she probably does want to hear you apologize profusely, even if that doesnt heal the wound, even if she replies in anger that nothing you can say will make up for what happened.

 

Its a gesture and one that your former friendship deserves.

 

I disagree. She started this. She already wrote the wife a letter and the wife responded. There is no reason to continue. There should be no response letter to the wifes response. It will only serve the ops guilt and the wife will never release her of that.

 

This is the worst case scenario. The ow knowing the wife, the family and the marriage and she still screws her husband. There is no excuse and nothing that can be said.

[Gamine]

It bothered me deeply that the OW never apologized to me, however I understand (I think) why she did not. Imagine what you are feeling grieving the relationship you had with her husband and multiply it by about 10,000 add in bone aching hurt and confusion along with emotional trauma of epic proportions and you will understand the sadness. You have lost someone you love. She has lost so much more it is almost incomprehensible unless you are a BS.

 

I loved my husband very much but was no longer 'in love' with him either when he had his extra marital situations last year. Thanks to his internet porn infatuation prior to this infidelity he had already communicated to me that I was not the apple of his eye and it ate away at my love for him. So by the time he had his affair(s) (had 2 emotional and one physical affair at the same time during a 4 month period of time) I was already in retreat mode.

 

Notwithstanding, there is a violation of the 'self' that occurs when a spouse has an affair. My body is violated. My sanctity is violated. My home is violated. My being is violated. I learned that my husband had sex with his affair partner in the lunch hour and with me at night on the very same day. Violated.

 

I understand that people can love or desire many people during their lifetime. I married at age 35 so I had my share of boyfriends. So I have no allusions concerning our ability to fall in love with more than one person even, for that matter, more than one person while one is in a relationship.

 

However, being married is a choice, not an obligation. It is a choice that can be/should be backed by your honor and integrity. By nature of the relationship of marriage it does become different over time. However, chasing emotion can, at the same time, deprive you of a deeper connection. Feeling in love is wonderful. Having someone who cares about you and backs it with action and decision is something totally different. Romance and being in love is cotton candy. Eating too much cotton candy rots out your teeth, makes you unhealthy, and will too... in time become boring. But it's wonderful to have as a treat while at the circus. That's an affair. A marriage is the healthy pot of stew. Warm, slow cooking, healthy, and comforting. That's why its called comfort food. It isn't always the extraordinary flavor sensation, or the rush you get from sugar but it is comforting when both spouses back their choice to have stew with their personal integrity and honor.

 

Real love is what we do for one another. Even an emotionally unavailable man or woman is who they are. I promise you they have feelings and it can feel as if we are being rejected by them when they withhold it from us, however they aren't doing it to us... it is really themselves they are depriving.

 

I am a one man woman so fidelity is easy for me. I simply (by choice) have affirmatively decided not to shop and if a shiny penny shows up I keep on walking. I do not entertain picking it up to gratify my need to hold it. I don't go down that path by choice.

 

So, in my marriage my husband picked up the shiny penny. And the woman who had sex with him also wanted a committed relationship with him. I, as his spouse, would have let him go happily if he was in love with her or anyone else for that matter... and I would happily let him go if he wanted just to play the field. But by doing the 'marriage' and 'his thing' he violated my life and the woman he slept with also violated my life.

 

I know many say that the OW didn't violate anything. When we pierce someone else's life we enter THEIR domain. We, as sentient beings, owe something to everyone we encounter. We owe them fair treatment. I don't care if it's the elderly woman at the supermarket who needs a hand with a heavy bag, or the stray dog running alongside of a highway. We must act with reverence and respect to the lives of those who we share this earth with. One could say that the stray dog isn't mine so why should I care? Or, one could say that the stray dog is frightened and is in danger.... so I'll step up to the plate and help.

 

Does the OW owe the BS an apology? A feeling, sentient being owes every living thing respect. We can continue to drive down that highway and watch the stray dog be hit and killed and live in regret over not doing the right thing, or we can do what is right while we can at every turn and every opportunity. We can live in integrity at all times because in not doing so we give up our honor.

 

Apologize to her but don't mitigate the damage of harming her by stating that it was not malicious because you loved her husband. Loving her husband as your reason for taking what belonged to her and violating her life is not mitigation of the damage caused to her. It is an explanation as to why it made sense for you to do what you chose to do. Make it right with her by apologizing in a heartfelt manner for bringing indignity to her life.

[dobler33]

wow, guys! quite a lively conversation i awake to find this morning! a couple clarifying points:

1) there was some implication that i slept with the MM, which i did not. throughout the entirety of the affair we both tried desperately to deal with the fact that we were in love (which we couldn't help) by acting as responsibly as possible (which we could). there were a couple of slip-ups, short but intense make-out sessions, but we always managed to keep our clothes on and stop the train. and i recognize that there may not be much difference for some folks, certainly for the BS. but it was something we put a lot of effort into, so i want to mention it.

 

2) this is indeed atypical behavior for me, which is why i continue to struggle to do the right thing even after the fact.

 

3) you bet your sweet arse i'm in therapy, have been for years. i believe that trying to be a therapist without being in therapy is irresponsible.

 

4) the BS and MM have stayed together and are working to repair their marriage, which was why he ended it.

 

5) the MM had been in love with me for some time and began pursuing me way before i was aware that's what he was doing. which does NOT in any way excuse me for falling in love in return. just wanna clarify the situation.

 

i think it's easy to assume that i am some kind of emotionally irresponsible needy hussy who was on the lookout for a bit of something on the side. of course this is not how i see myself. the realization that i was in love with him shook me to my foundations and destroyed everything i thought i knew to be true. that would have been the case even if he were not my husband's best friend and married to one of my close friends, but as it was it was devastating, terrifying, totally upheaving. it was never something i was looking for. if it was anything short of the love of my life i would never have been swayed. that being said, because i am in general a compassionate and moral person and because i did indeed love the woman i betrayed, i know well the depth and breadth of my betrayal and fully expect to live the rest of my life with that blood on my hands. my letter to her was not an attempt to remove that stain. i am striving to honor and face up to all sides of this extremely traumatic event here, to take responsibility in the best way i know how. i have never been through anything like this, have been frankly astounded and often frightened by the magnitude of my emotions throughout the experience. i haven't always known the most effective or honorable way to deal with them. but i'm working on it.

 

i appreciate the strength of feelings about this issue - people who have been in my position are pretty controversial and bring up a lot for others. but i would like to gently and respectfully remind folks that this is advertised as a supportive forum for "those who find themselves involved with a committed partner". it's at the top of the page. surprisingly enough we do need support as well. some of the posts in response to my original question are a little less than neutral.

 

thanks folks.

[Owl]

I believe that you truly do regret what happened, and want to communicate that to your former friend.

 

I'd tell you this, as a formerly betrayed husband...and one who was betrayed by a "supposed" friend as well:

 

Walk away.

 

The best thing you can do for your former friend(s) is to completely and totally vacate their lives. You've sent her a letter trying to demonstrate your regret and remorse, and that's admirable. But you can't do anything more than that.

 

Don't attempt any further communication.

 

If you care about them...leave them in peace to rebuild their relationship.

 

Contacting her is just going to keep her hurting and angry...it's just going to keep setting back their reconciliation.

 

You will never be able to adequately communicate your feelings to her...and your friendship is irrevocably destroyed.

 

Continuing to contact her will have NO positive outcome for any of you.

 

You've apologized, she responded...now your parting gift to them needs to be to remove yourself entirely from the situation.

 

I hope this makes sense to you.

[Reggie]

I like what Gamine said and totally agree.

 

Here's my take. This was a choice, one that seems even more cruel than the typical affair ,in that it involved a friend's husband and the friend of your own husband.

Not sure I understand the allegation that you were not looking for it. These things take time to develop and, all along the way you were receptive. So, I don't see the relevance of who made the initial overture.

I am glad you are looking within to try to figure out what is wrong with you.

You do not mention how your H is dealing with this and it seems that should be your primary focus. As a therapist, you must understand the extent of the trauma. How is this poor guy doing?

[Reggie]

I am also curious as to how you feel that you could not help being in love. That seems odd to me, as true love requires some cultivating. And, how could this guy be in love with you before you were in love with him? I can understand his being attracted or infatuated or having admiration. But, love? How'd he do that without some reciprocity? How did he do that without a level of intimacy that was inappropriate.

Perhaps your therapist is asking these questions and you are figuring them out.

But, the allegation that you guys could not help it seems irresponsible. And, the allegation that he already loved you without some reciprocity does not ring true.

[Stepone]

This is the worst case scenario. The ow knowing the wife, the family and the marriage and she still screws her husband. There is no excuse and nothing that can be said.

 

This is true; it really is the worst case scenario. You lsoe everything and the guilt.. it eats away at you and you start to question everything you have ever believed about yourself. Although I have to say it is really not as uncommon as people might think.

 

I cannot help but feel for Dobler as I am in almost the exact same position, although am not married myself, my MM was the H of my best friend. We also managed to restrain ourselves from sex somehow - I got out before I gave in, anyway...Lord it was difficult.. and I cannot shut out the fantasies even now.

 

I can't put words to the pain involved for the OW in this situation, I can't speak for the BW but in my case she made up some VERY severe and damaging lies about me to tell her H when he told her he was thinking of leaving for me. And these got round the small community. It was the enormity of these lies which made me see that actually she was absolutely never any friend of mine anyway. So I have too much anger towards her and don't respect her enough to want to get on my knees.. I do have fantasies about giving her a huge hug and both of us just bursting into tears but ... any formal apology - I'd feel I was just rubbing it in her face. It's bad enough that she has to pass my house every day. Do you have to see her regularly Dobler? If so it might be less awkward if you do settle things properly now... and the letter was definitely a good move if so.

[dobler33]

my husband is doing ok, although in the beginning of course it was unbearably traumatic for him. he is an extremely closed and emotionally withdrawn person, so it has been difficult for him to talk to me about his process, but it's getting better. interestingly enough, one of the things that started to ease the flow a little and allow us to imagine recovering from this was the realization of what we have in common - that we are both grieving the loss of this man who was so beloved by both of us. somehow that seems to have opened the conversation up, if only a little sliver. he's decided to go into therapy himself, which i am totally supportive of; he desperately needs to be able to talk to someone about this. but he's been happy in the last 10 days or so, seems actually to feel that this trauma will bring us closer together. i expect that we'll both be dealing with this for years to come.