reconcilliation? how goes it?

[Snowflower]

Anne,

I have a couple of questions for you:

1) did you over the last year hit any particular rough spots? I think Owl once mentioned that the 6 month after D-day point (which I am fast approaching) could be particularly challenging. And if so, can you share any insights?

 

I am also at just past 6 months since D-day. What are some of the rough spots that could come up? We are doing very well, but I would also like to know.

 

Owl, Anne, does anyone know?

 

Thanks!

[dobler33]

You keep saying this and I keep not seeing them. If you are letting details dribble out in your responses to others than this may be why...else I need to email Tony and ask for a smiley with a white cane be added.

Wait a minute. I thought you earlier claimed to have "just fallen in love"...it "just happened". That Freudian term...I forget it...what happened to that? In fact Owl asked for links given your passionate defense of "just happened". Now you are ignoring red flags. Which is it? And don't interpret this as snarky or attacking in a mean way...but its certainly a challenge to your apparent change of position (esp. in short time). Why did you change your characterization of your A happened?

 

Why didn't you simply tell your H how you felt? Why live unhappily for so long that you become susceptible to an A? How did that happen?

 

I don't discount it all. I simply haven't heard YOU say where YOU went wrong...it was always your H this or your H that. It was never about YOUR decision to cheat (and its a decision...I'm playing back into the above ignoring of red flags). So what I'm about now with you is ownership of action. And maybe you do, but I hadn't heard it. That's my point...you keep pointing to the external forces which compelled you to act and I want you to look inward. Because every M has rough patches...but not everyone cheats. So I keep pressing you to speak not of the environ or your H but in terms of you.

 

Hopefully my question of how you and your M was makes sense...I was eliminating change in your H. He always acted like that. But you didn't. YOU changed your behavior...not him. Simple question of why.

 

I didnt realize asking simple questions made me angry. What was it that gave you that impression so I might correct it going forward?

 

And for the record...Im not angry at you. Just asking, to me, simple questions.

 

 

i think in that conversation about cathexis (which was the word you're talking about), i first advocated for the fact that sudden feelings of love were possible from the standpoint of my professional experience, but was fairly descriptive about the muddy nature of my experience of the thing - that when the confessions were made it did feel sudden and uncontrollable but that in retrospect i can see where i neglected the patrolling of my boundaries.

 

and i ask this with no rancor whatsoever: do you honestly think i never told my H how i felt? we spent nearly a year in MC, and that was after nearly 2 years of me trying literally every possible way of telling him - from yelling to list-making, from compassion to collapse. i promise you, JW, that i made every every every attempt to express my feelings to no avail, which my H himself has also acknowledged.

 

i think we are getting confused here because i keep telling you why i cheated and you keep not accepting those answers and then asking me again. is there another reason you're curious about or suspect? i would love to know.

 

and i'm sorry, but i don't get the white cane reference. i am sort of an online forum newbie.

 

i think it's the way you continually negate all of my answers to you and make accusations about my behavior or emotional landscape, coupled with the fact that you seem to keep asking me the same question over and over than makes me think you're mad at me. but i'm actually not upset or distressed by it, and certainly not offended. just tired fingers, that's all.

[dobler33]

I am also at just past 6 months since D-day. What are some of the rough spots that could come up? We are doing very well, but I would also like to know.

 

Owl, Anne, does anyone know?

 

Thanks!

 

 

hey, me too on that one. i hadn't heard about the 6 month rough patch. we're like 4 1/2 months away, most of which my husband will be gone for, but i wanna be prepared!!!!!!!!!

[anne1707]

Anne, i'm sorry but I didn't get whether your affair was emotional or Physical?

 

It was both and lasted almost three years

 

 

Anne,

I have a couple of questions for you:

1) did you over the last year hit any particular rough spots? I think Owl once mentioned that the 6 month after D-day point (which I am fast approaching) could be particularly challenging. And if so, can you share any insights?

!

 

I think the first 6 months are really spent just dealing with the initial shock and pain. Once you start getting through that you then need to decide whether you really do want the marriage, whether you are in it because you really want to be there or because you are just treading water. One way or another, things are getting clearer so you can both decide on what you really want.

 

And of course there were plenty of rough spots (and still are from time to time but nowhere near as often or as bad).

 

 

2) do you think handling emotional challenges while out at dinner is a generally good approach for folks? I remember once my H and I tried discussing some family problems while on a nice dinner, the whole thing blew up in our face and we didn't do another date night for about 3 yrs we were so disturbed by it (sheesh!) My tendency is to spend date night having a nice date, now, and save the tough conversations for home. But if you (or others) have thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them.

 

I think we can do this because in some ways we approach this in the same way as we approached MC. It's time to talk, no judgements, no ridicule, but listening and trying to understand each others point of view. As it is, we now spend less time on the hard talk and more on enjoying us.

[Owl]

As I'd said earlier, six months is a point when the anger seems to peak a lot of times.

 

As far as other points, I'd definitely add that the one year mark from d-day is likely to be difficult for the BS as well. They're going to "relive" those anniversaries...they're going to be thinking "a year ago today, my WS was doing xxx with OM/OW". It's a whole series of triggers over this time period.

 

Same thing goes for major holidays/anniversaries/etc...

 

If the BS knows/believes that any of these holidays were spent with the OW/OM, or thinking of OW/OM, etc...it's going to be another trigger session. Any gifts that were given between affair partners are ESPECIALLY going to be a trigger as well. As silly as it sounds...I struggled with Mother's Day...OM sent my wife e-cards, and that day my wife was daydreaming her butt off, thinking about OM. It took a year or two for me to get past that.

 

This all gets easier with time...and a good coping mechanism is to CHANGE the holiday in some fashion once you're into recovery...make it a new holiday in some fashion that helps rebuild trust, remove triggers, and make it a SPECIAL occurrence for the new marriage. Celebrate it in a completely different way than you did during the affair.

 

These are some of the main times I can think of...after that first year, the triggers usually begin fading a lot more. The second year anniversaries are typically MUCH easier to handle...and the second and third years it gets to where the comparison is made at how much BETTER things are now than they were "back then".

 

Hope this helps.

[Snowflower]

Thanks, Anne and Owl for your replies about the 6 month mark.

 

The one year anniversary of some events is still a couple of months away but I am already getting worried. I don't know the exact dates but then again I don't want to know either. Knowing what month it was will be hard enough.

 

I guess I was asking about the 6 month mark because I have felt like in a lot of ways, the initial shock, pain and crisis-mode has already passed for me. I was wondering what I can expect next.

[Owl]

The initial shock/pain/etc...can pass relatively quickly, and all of these timeframes are often modified by circumstances.

 

If you're both working hard on recovery, the initial pain may fade quickly. But, bear in mind that this is a ROLLERCOASTER.

 

There are going to be ups and downs in recovery.

 

In the first few months, that coaster's ups and downs cycle pretty quickly. Sometimes in the space of a day you can have several ups and downs.

 

As weeks and then months go by, the frequency and amplitude will decrease...the hills get further apart, and the size of the ups and downs decreases significantly.

 

But they still occur.

 

Six months is big for both the BS and WS. It's the point when they really start to realize that this isn't going to "just go away" anytime soon. It's when they start to 'get' that it's going to take YEARS to work through the damage. Depending on the affair, the WS may still be in "the fog" or in withdrawl...or they may have already made up their mind to reconcile. All of this affects the timelines.

[Snowflower]

Thanks, Owl.

 

Yes, the frequency of the ups and downs has been my experience as well. They are getting a little better but they are still there. When I compare my situation to others that I read about here, I realize I got off relatively easy. My husband's affair was shallow and short-lived.

 

It hurts all the same though-even though I know it could have been worse, much worse.

 

I hate that my anger still pops up from time to time. I hate what he did to me, even though we have talked and talked and have come through in a much better place. Very early on in recovery, my therapist told me to work hard to get through my anger or else it would make me bitter. I've been trying to to do this. I get worried when I still feel angry at times.

[anne1707]

Six months is big for both the BS and WS. It's the point when they really start to realize that this isn't going to "just go away" anytime soon. It's when they start to 'get' that it's going to take YEARS to work through the damage.

 

 

Owl (in his usual way) expresses this so much better. I think it is when you either decide to end things or really get down to the hard work. The first few months are all just about that - getting through that those months. There is no strength or emotion really left for anything else. Once you have managed to do that you then actually need to start the real work of saving, repairing and eventually improving your marriage

[jwi71]

i think in that conversation about cathexis (which was the word you're talking about), i first advocated for the fact that sudden feelings of love were possible from the standpoint of my professional experience, but was fairly descriptive about the muddy nature of my experience of the thing - that when the confessions were made it did feel sudden and uncontrollable but that in retrospect i can see where i neglected the patrolling of my boundaries.

 

Fair enough.

 

and i ask this with no rancor whatsoever: do you honestly think i never told my H how i felt?

 

I make NO assumptions. You want me to guess at your past since you begrudgingly share it? That's not fair to me. Stop assuming. I only know what you share.

 

we spent nearly a year in MC, and that was after nearly 2 years of me trying literally every possible way of telling him - from yelling to list-making, from compassion to collapse. i promise you, JW, that i made every every every attempt to express my feelings to no avail, which my H himself has also acknowledged.

 

First you mentioned it. Oh you said you went to couples therapy and it didn't take (obviously). Was I supposed to guess as to who or why it didn't take?

 

Here's a good question for ya...did you begin your A during your therapy or after you quit? See...I can sharply word things to be "angry" or "Attacking" and even use assumption to further paint a nasty picture of you. Why the hell would I do that?

 

Now, even though its an example...the question was a good one...

 

i think we are getting confused here because i keep telling you why i cheated and you keep not accepting those answers and then asking me again. is there another reason you're curious about or suspect? i would love to know

 

I actually prefer to ask questions and lead posters on...but we aren't "clicking" in a good way. I'll just say it: You cheated. Not your H nor your environ. You. Look there. The mirror. If you go back and read some of your posts, its sounds as if he must change in order for YOU to accept him back. Which seems odd given your role. Add this on to the fact that your MM dumped you (meaning the A would be continuing STILL)...I wonder where your heart and head are in relation to your M. I'd like you to ask yourself that.

 

Building on the couples therapy...did you begin your A in MC or did you begin it after the MC ended. Because how the hell can MC work if you are in love w/ another man? And should it be that the A began after MC...why did you quit?

 

This is where I want you to go. Publicly or privately. Why did you go back to your H...he seems like the second choice...given YOUR posts.

 

I personally don't care if you file for D or if you reconcile or enter into an open M. The only goal I have for you...a happy outcome. You choose the path that makes you happy. I'll ask questions and poke holes and point out contradictions as I see them. I'm not your enemy.

 

 

i think it's the way you continually negate all of my answers to you and make accusations about my behavior or emotional landscape, coupled with the fact that you seem to keep asking me the same question over and over than makes me think you're mad at me. but i'm actually not upset or distressed by it, and certainly not offended. just tired fingers, that's all.

 

What answers have I negated? And how did I do that?

I ask questions becasue Im not very smart and when you say A then you say B...I get confused. Also...I don't have all the history...maybe its because you declined or maybe you divulged bits and pieces here and there...dunno. Of course...I may have simply missed i too.

 

Well...we don't click too well so I think I'll bow out.

 

I do sincerely hope you find happiness...whatever path you choose.

[OFGnomore]

Owl (in his usual way) expresses this so much better. I think it is when you either decide to end things or really get down to the hard work. The first few months are all just about that - getting through that those months. There is no strength or emotion really left for anything else. Once you have managed to do that you then actually need to start the real work of saving, repairing and eventually improving your marriage

 

Im at month 6. But I think there's a third option some people choose too, and that's business as usual. Meaning those are the people that probably don't hang out on this recovery board but continue on in a dead marriage and use addictions to get through. Be it additional affairs or otherwise.

[dobler33]

Fair enough.

 

 

 

I make NO assumptions. You want me to guess at your past since you begrudgingly share it? That's not fair to me. Stop assuming. I only know what you share.

 

 

 

First you mentioned it. Oh you said you went to couples therapy and it didn't take (obviously). Was I supposed to guess as to who or why it didn't take?

 

Here's a good question for ya...did you begin your A during your therapy or after you quit? See...I can sharply word things to be "angry" or "Attacking" and even use assumption to further paint a nasty picture of you. Why the hell would I do that?

 

Now, even though its an example...the question was a good one...

 

 

 

I actually prefer to ask questions and lead posters on...but we aren't "clicking" in a good way. I'll just say it: You cheated. Not your H nor your environ. You. Look there. The mirror. If you go back and read some of your posts, its sounds as if he must change in order for YOU to accept him back. Which seems odd given your role. Add this on to the fact that your MM dumped you (meaning the A would be continuing STILL)...I wonder where your heart and head are in relation to your M. I'd like you to ask yourself that.

 

Building on the couples therapy...did you begin your A in MC or did you begin it after the MC ended. Because how the hell can MC work if you are in love w/ another man? And should it be that the A began after MC...why did you quit?

 

This is where I want you to go. Publicly or privately. Why did you go back to your H...he seems like the second choice...given YOUR posts.

 

I personally don't care if you file for D or if you reconcile or enter into an open M. The only goal I have for you...a happy outcome. You choose the path that makes you happy. I'll ask questions and poke holes and point out contradictions as I see them. I'm not your enemy.

 

 

 

 

What answers have I negated? And how did I do that?

I ask questions becasue Im not very smart and when you say A then you say B...I get confused. Also...I don't have all the history...maybe its because you declined or maybe you divulged bits and pieces here and there...dunno. Of course...I may have simply missed i too.

 

Well...we don't click too well so I think I'll bow out.

 

I do sincerely hope you find happiness...whatever path you choose.

 

 

yup. we do seem to be consistently misunderstanding one another. thanks for your interest and concern.

[Molley]

I do have a question regarding recovery and the ups and downs…. My husband and I are just starting into our 4th week of recovery. He had an EA/PA that lasted about 2 months, I found out late March, we kind of wallowed around in “I don’t know what to do next land” he couldn’t commit to anything, me, the marriage, we stayed here for about a month. He finally started contacting the OW again and I tossed him out. He was gone for a week before asking to return home. When he came it was with the understanding that we would work together to fix the marriage and he would have no further contact with the OW. Our first couple of weeks went pretty well, we did many things together, talked a lot. Laughed a lot, started planning for our future, even took a quick vacation. However, for the last week my H has retreated once again. He comes home and we still talk, eat dinner together, he kisses me in the morning and night, but that’s about it. When I asked him what’s going on, he said that he just constantly is thinking about the OW, can’t seem to get her out of his mind. When I asked if he’s still in NC, he said yes, no contact at all, understands that he can never see, talk, etc to her if we are to fix the marriage. Yet, he can’t get her out of his mind. He says he loves me, wants to be with me, wants to stay in the marriage. Is this normal, sounds like it is? That it’s not that easy to just move past thinking about the OP, even when committed to the marriage and wanting to work it out. My H has been coming home and immersing himself in cleaning up things outside. At this point, what can a BS do, anything? Seems we’re in one of those down cycles. Can anyone provide a bit more insight regarding recovery and some of the stages for both the BS and WS?

[boldjack]

Anne, I was the OM in an affair, but have never had to deal with a WS like yourself. I believe that I could reconcile, if an affair was only emotional. If it was Physical, I know myself enough to know that there could be no forgiveness. I know this makes me a hypocrite, but it's the truth. How did your husband do it? How does he deal with the images of you having sex with the Om? Another man inside you? It would be those images that would kill any reconciliation.

[OFGnomore]

Anne, I was the OM in an affair, but have never had to deal with a WS like yourself. I believe that I could reconcile, if an affair was only emotional. If it was Physical, I know myself enough to know that there could be no forgiveness. I know this makes me a hypocrite, but it's the truth. How did your husband do it? How does he deal with the images of you having sex with the Om? Another man inside you? It would be those images that would kill any reconciliation.

 

All I can say is for ALL those who say, they couldn't forgive the emotional, physical, anything that lasted beyond a ONS, etc. is that unless you've been in that situation you don't know for sure what you'd do, IMO. For example, H told me he couldn't forgive me if I didnt confess it myself. All the factors would remain the same, kids, finances, time in the M etc. I think it would be harder and less optimal but I think he'd probably still forgive. I do believe that if I cheated again as he said, he could not forgive. I see all kinds of behavior being forgiven on this site, multiple cheating, cheating with best friends, siblings, in laws, continued lying etc. Again, until you're in those shoes you really just don't know.

[anne1707]

Boldjack

 

I think as OFGnomore has said in their post, you really do not know for sure what you would/could do until you are faced with that situation. My H has his ways of dealing with what haappened (just as I have mine) but what we are both focussed on is making the marriage work. I know the pain will never completely go but it does get easier to deal with - less severe and less frequently triggered.

 

I should add that I can to an extent understand what he has had to deal with because he did have a brief affair years ago (which I actually only thought was an EA until he admitted it was also physical when we went through MC after my affair). When I write all this, it does sound absolutely crazy that we are still together but we really do love each other and want to be together.

[boldjack]

OFG, Anne, I can only relate as a former OM. I can't really understand what a BS goes through. In that you are right. Having said that, I know myself pretty well and can say that there would be no reconciling, if the affair was physical. I had an affair with a MW, she would do oral on me then go into the house and kiss her husband, as if nothing was wrong. Any man who could be able to put those images out of his mind, is, IMO, a fool. I do not believe that a ws can have a physical affair and still be in love with their SO. Before possibly, after possibly, but not during. Anne, regardless of how much work you (both) are putting into reconciling, you are extremely lucky that your H is the forgiving type. I however, am not. I have known far too many MW's to believe in "instant", repentance.

[z1850]

Probably most people stay together for financial reasons.

[anne1707]

Probably most people stay together for financial reasons.

 

 

Certainly does not apply in my situation and many others I am sure.

[OFGnomore]

Certainly does not apply in my situation and many others I am sure.

 

I think you mentioned that you have a career, right? In your case, then probably not. But in many BS wives, especially if they've been out of the work force and accustomed to a certain lifestyle will turn a blind eye especially if there is not severe dysfunction, physical or substance abuse. And men will stay if they aren't held accountable out of obligation to their children or because they benefit from the structure of marriage. There are many probably a lot of people that never truly resolve their marital problems or may just want some extra on the side. Sometimes I think it's purely aging and wanting to avoid disruption that keep people married.

[Owl]

I would say that sometimes it might be financial or security reasons that people stay together...I would also argue that none of these were the reasons my wife and I reconciled after her EA.

 

Point blank...we had 16 years of wonderful marriage prior to that last year of hell that we went through.

 

We had a great FOUNDATION to rebuild from...and knew how good things could be between us.

 

We stayed together out of love. Not for the kids, not for financial reasons, not for security...plain and simple, it was because we love each other and have a great time with each other.

 

All of those other 'reasons' had solutions if we truly decided that we were through.

[z1850]

If you truly were independently wealthy, would it have made a difference? I think in most cases it would, especially with the husband whose wife commits adultery.

[boldjack]

Owl, my point is, would you have been so ready to reconcile, if the affair was physical? How would you deal with the sexual images?

[OFGnomore]

I would say that sometimes it might be financial or security reasons that people stay together...I would also argue that none of these were the reasons my wife and I reconciled after her EA.

 

Point blank...we had 16 years of wonderful marriage prior to that last year of hell that we went through.

 

We had a great FOUNDATION to rebuild from...and knew how good things could be between us.

 

We stayed together out of love. Not for the kids, not for financial reasons, not for security...plain and simple, it was because we love each other and have a great time with each other.

 

All of those other 'reasons' had solutions if we truly decided that we were through.

 

I get the sense that you were committed to problem solving in your M. But I think more people put up with status quo. In this forum, it seems there are more decision makers here than status quo accepters. Meaning make it work or get a divorce. You'll probably find more staying for the kids/money and still philandering , drinking, shopping whatever in the OW/OM forum.

[OFGnomore]

If you truly were independently wealthy, would it have made a difference? I think in most cases it would, especially with the husband whose wife commits adultery.

Meaning the H would be more likelyto leave or the wife?