I don't get men...

[Kamille]

I'm going to assume that was supposed to be a smilie face next to the thank yous .

 

What I meant was this... Where do you meet them? On-line? In bars? if so, what kind of bars? I guess, my advice is to diversify how you meet men so that you find less superficial ones.

[shadowplay]

I'm going to assume that was supposed to be a smilie face next to the thank yous .

 

What I meant was this... Where do you meet them? On-line? In bars? if so, what kind of bars? I guess, my advice is to diversify how you meet men so that you find less superficial ones.

 

I agree that there are certain dens of superficiality that you want to avoid like bars or certain cities like LA. But I suspect you'll face the same difficulties most places. This is why I'm suggesting some tweaking to your physical appearance (whatever you can control -- fitness, clothing, hair, makeup).

[Kamille]

Girl, men are superficial everywhere. You don't really become aware of how superficial they are until you've been on the rejecting end. Unless you're going for low-hanging fruit, looks (in terms of attracting men) are usually necessary but not sufficient. Of course, they may fall in love with you for your deeper qualities, but without an attractive appearance it's nearly impossible to even get your foot in the door. Instead you end up friend-zoned. This is something nobody else will probably admit to you, but it's the ugly truth.

 

 

I asked my guy friends at one point: what percentage of women do you find attractive? They pretty much all said they found something attractive about 50 to 90% of women in their age group. The bottom-line was: men find women attractive.

 

Sure, there are men out there who want arm-candy. They're not usually the men I associate with.

[shadowplay]

I asked my guy friends at one point: what percentage of women do you find attractive? They pretty much all said they found something attractive about 50 to 90% of women in their age group. The bottom-line was: men find women attractive.

 

Sure, there are men out there who want arm-candy. They're not usually the men I associate with.

 

And you believed them? I jest, but I really doubt they would give women an honest answer to that question. You'd be appalled at some of the things I've heard men say (superficially nice ones too).

[Trialbyfire]

And you believed them? I jest, but I really doubt they would give women an honest answer to that question. You'd be appalled at some of the things I've heard men say (superficially nice ones too).

No offense but do you realize how many non-arm candy women have partners? Don't say these men are settling because many are madly in love with their SOs.

[Kamille]

And you believed them? I jest, but I really doubt they would give women an honest answer to that question. You'd be appalled at some of the things I've heard men say (superficially nice ones too).

 

Why wouldn't they? I wasn't expecting the numbers to be so high tbh. I was guessing they probably liked 30% or less, like one in 10.

 

My point is, I think men have a lot of flexibility when it comes to looks. But what will make them take a chance on a woman is her attitude and how she makes them feel.

 

I can relate this another way: think about your friends... In my case, the lookers have as tough a time dating as I do. The friends who look good, have it together, and have a great attitude are the ones who are happily married. They don't have to be perfect 10s.

[donnamaybe]

One thing that really struck me was the whole "what's he talking to me for if he's not interested" thing. Perhaps there is something in your personality, jiving with the aforementioned attitude, that just doesn't sit well with some people. What in the world is wrong with talking to someone on a simple friendly level? The entire world isn't going about with the notion of finding a relationship. If no one is allowed to hold a conversation with someone that they aren't interested in romantically, it would make for a very quiet and uncommunicative world.

 

I'm not saying this to rip on you, but think about it. Just go about being friendly to people and holding conversations with whoever would like to converse with you. Be open to it. You might make some really good friends in the process AND with your newfound laid back attitude, you might just wind up talking to a guy who IS interested in a relationship.

[WineCountry]

I have no siblings and I fear total lonliness when I don't have my parents any longer. I fear dying all alone in some nursing home where no one comes to visit me...I know it sounds so ridiculously sad and pessimistic...but that doesn't mean it can't happen...ugh! I"m going to have a good time tonight and try to think positive

 

OMG Lovelace I'm in the SAME position! I am an only child. My dad passed away when I was 15, and now it's only me and my elderly mom who live here. The rest of my family lives down south.

 

I too feel that when the time comes and my mom passes, i will be all alone up here. If I get sick or hurt, im screwed. My mom is getting older, with more medical issues, and im her main care giver. I get so stressed because I dont have anyone to turn to when im all alone. Someone to tell my fears too. Yeah, i have some friends, but im not real close to anyone in particular. You know how you can hang out with people, but still feel alone?

 

I have always been kinda to myself, which makes it hard to meet people. Im not the social butterfly. I like things like hiking, camping, museums, theatre, animals, etc. Im not the party animal person, and never have been. But I have a great sense of humor, and love to laugh. I like hanging out with others like that.

 

Im like you. Im decent enough looking, but no Jennifer lopez.

 

Im very laid back, and not high maintenance or or overly girly girly. I sometimes think, should i be? Im college educated, fairly independent, etc. But, do i need to act like a helpless airhead around men? I dont know. Plus, i have a job that puts me in a position of authority, so that's ANOTHER thing for men to shy away from. Sheesh.

 

Too bad we dont live near each other Lovelace..we could use a drink. LMAO

[Star Gazer]

Like LL and WineCountry, I am college educated, independent, attractive, have my shiot together, etc., and am very much in a position of authority, and yet I've never used those characteristics as an explanation for any of the dating troubles I had before I met my BF.

[Shygirl15]

There's always someone for everybody. That's what I use to go by. I don't try change myself because I always believe sooner or later I'll find someone who will love me just the way I am. I love myself too much to try and change me anyways.

 

I think I'm just decent looking and it's fine.

[eclipseIDE]

I just don't get it. Ran into an acquaintance last night, one of those things where you never call each other, but if you see each other out, you talk or whatever. I always thought he was cute but I never really felt that from him in return. Last night we were at a gathering, and after all our friends left, just he and I sat and talked for a good hour or more, talked about relationships and dating and such, more than we've ever talked before...we talked about single parents because he is one, and I had been saying I don't mind dating men with kids, and at 1 point he mentioned I should meet his son sometime, which I'd think you'd only say to a person your interested in, but I guess I was wrong...

 

When it was time to go we walked near our cars and he hugged me, but didn't try to go in for a kiss or anything...we did find out we have a mutual friend that bartends, so we said we will go see that person sometime, otherwise I didn't feel interest on his part....this boggles me, because if I'm not attracted to someone, I'm sorry but I don't normally spend so much time talking to them, then. I have a few guy friends that I'm not interested in that way, so I talk with them obviously, but if I'm out as the single chick that I am, I dont' waste time talking to someone I don't feel attraction for, in some way or another.

 

He definitely seemed to enjoy talking with me but still, isn't attraction supposed to make it enjoyable to begin with? I'm so tired of guys not seeing me as more than friends, and I think it's obvious that I like you when I'm smiling and talking to you, touching your arm playfully, etc, I shouldn't have to be more forward than that, right? I get friend-zoned left and right and I seem to be the only person who thinks I'm attractive. I'm so tired of being very lonely this way. What am I doing wrong? I don't like to throw myself at guys, I like to be friends 1st. But it never goes beyond that. Help!!!!

 

 

So what made you so sure he wasnt interested? Because he didnt try to kiss you? Its sounds like youre throwing in the towel without even following up to see if there is any there there.

 

Lol, poor women, hows this.

The woman Ive been talking online to for 6 months (I commute between 2 states) tells me she want to start seeing me I agree to move back to see her but then she tells me she started dating someone.

 

So quit whining

[carhill]

What am I doing wrong? I don't like to throw myself at guys, I like to be friends 1st. But it never goes beyond that. Help!!!!

 

Be honest with yourself. What's your attraction pattern? How many men have you met that mesh well with it? IME, very few men invest time and energy in platonic relationships with women to be friends and let attraction grow out of that. In fact, none that I know. I notice this because it's been a historical pattern for myself and the cause of enough heartache from women friendzoning me, seemingly for exactly what you apparently *state* your attraction pattern to be. Are you thinking or feeling? Important question.

 

Like advice I've received, casting a wider net opens more potentials. So, there ya go

[LoveLace]

Wine I"m so sorry that you are in such a situation to feel so alone. You sound like an all around great catch though with many interests...I don't think you or I will really end up old and alone , we are just scared...I think if we both just keep doing what we do and be ourselves, it will come. I guess that today I'm finding strength to be optimistic for us both!

 

As for my appearance, I'm satisfied with it...don't think I really need to lose weight or anything...I'm a decent size, just not a size 4 or anything, hehe. I'm really pretty anal about how I look before I go out...I want everything to be perfect from head to toe...but I always only dress in what's comfortable and/or flattering. I get complimented on my blue eyes a lot. I change my hair up once in a while too, weather it's the color or the style, but nothing dramatic ever, like going from brunette to blond...I tried that once years ago, it wasn't me, hehe. But I do change my shade every so often.

 

Donnamaybe I love friendly conversation as you spoke of. It's just disappointing when I start to think hey this guy is cute, but realize he's probably not looking at me that way...if he is, I guess it's not apparent enough to me. Ya never know if that guy really did think I'm cute, maybe he just doesn't want to date me, or date at all. There could be all kinds of reasons for why these things happen. And he does have my #, you never know if he calls sometime. I'm not counting on it, though.

 

As for where I meet men, I'm never in the same place at the same time...unless you count work...I'm always doing different things with different friends...or even by myself....it's just rare for a guy (that I think is cute) to actually walk up and start flirting or anything...I have recently met a guy online that tells me I'm beautiful all the time, etc, and he is cute as well, but I'm not too interested in the situation...not only is he 2 hrs. away but he's got one mess of an ex-wife and child thing going on. It sound like it would be too complicated to date him with all of that combined. It sounds like I'd be lucky to see him once a month...but at least I can confirm that SOMEONE thinks I"m hot, lol. Not all hope is lost...I just get more frustrated on some days more than others...

 

So carhill, why DO people invest a lot of time and energy into platonic relationships? Me and C are platonic, but I think he invests more time in it then just about any guy that's dated me, lol, seriously...I love it because he's pretty appreciative as a friend and it's someone to talk to about life, it's the next best thing to a boyfriend. I guess his reasons are all the same...difference is I find him very attractive as well, I still don't know if he finds me even a little attractive. It doesn't matter, but what you said raises a question: is a friendship only truly platonic when they are NOT attracted to each other, at all? Or, can there be attraction, and it still be called platonic? Is the definition of "platonic" as simple as 2 friends that don't have sex? Or does it go into more detail than that?

[paddington bear]

Be honest with yourself. What's your attraction pattern? How many men have you met that mesh well with it? IME, very few men invest time and energy in platonic relationships with women to be friends and let attraction grow out of that. In fact, none that I know. I notice this because it's been a historical pattern for myself and the cause of enough heartache from women friendzoning me, seemingly for exactly what you apparently *state* your attraction pattern to be. Are you thinking or feeling? Important question.

 

Like advice I've received, casting a wider net opens more potentials. So, there ya go

 

Why don't most men invest time and energy in platonic relationships? Because they are looking for a sexual relationship? And if they do develop a platonic friendship, they are hoping for something more? Or are you saying that they will only develop a platonic friendship with a member of the opposite sex because they know the attraction won't grow?

 

I'm asking all this because I'm totally in the same situation as Lovelace, consistently friendzoned by men. Everything she's said in her posts on this thread I have thought almost exactly - and I'm an only child too...maybe female only children end up in the friendzone more than other people???? Due to some parental dynamic or something.

 

Anyway, I'm worn out too. I'm worn out trying to figure out what more I'm supposed to do to be a normal woman who men want to date. I don't understand why no one wants me for just me, the way I am now. I have constantly read dating guides, psychology books, anything to try to figure out the solution to this problem and I've made so many positive changes in my behaviour, but it's not made a damn bit of difference and that is when you start to get totally disheartened.

 

What I started to do is to notice which guys ARE checking me out, doesn't matter if I'm attracted to them or not. I have 2 email accounts. I write an email to myself with the heading 'positive things' and in it I list any positive flirting or looks or getting chatted up that has happened with a guy during that day, then any other good things that happened. I think I've focused so much on the 'why haven't I gots' that I've totally convinced myself that no one could ever want me because that's all I've gotten up until now. So, hence the emails.

 

Now I look forward to seeing if I get checked out on the street or whatever, so I can jot it down. I'm hoping this in some way helps me realise that guys are attracted to me, that I am an attractive woman, that I am worth more than to be constantly friendzoned - and if I realise all of this maybe I won't let myself be friendzoned again because I will be subconsciously acting like a sexually desireable woman. Obviously I'm not now, even when I think I am, as the friendzone thing keeps happening.

[carhill]

what you said raises a question: is a friendship only truly platonic when they are NOT attracted to each other, at all? Or, can there be attraction, and it still be called platonic? Is the definition of "platonic" as simple as 2 friends that don't have sex? Or does it go into more detail than that?

 

I can comment on this. I've experienced it three ways:

 

1. Totally platonic. Neither of us was attracted, nor jealous of the other's SO/dating partner/spouse. Reciprocal interest and support. Humor but little to no sexual humor (flirting). Sharing, caring and support, both in a sincere way.

 

2. Unbalanced platonic. I'll only speak for myself since I have no way of knowing what or how women think or what they feel about me. I show visible attraction and the woman shows little to none. If single, my attraction becomes validation and I become the "Cheers" guy, the guy she can count on for consistent interest. If in a LTR, I become an ego boost and/or validation vehicle. The key difference is the way the attraction imbalance dynamic works and the resultant friendship. The friendship is a bit more 'careful', yet at the same time more volatile. Often it is more superficial and absence is not heartache.

 

3. Unbalanced platonic with history. This is the dynamic I experience(d) with the female friend I often write about here. Circumstances (like marriages) prevent any action upon feelings and, retrospectively, such feelings were/are unhealthy at their base, IMO. Such friendships, with underpinnings of unrequited love and attraction, on either or both sides, can be exceedingly tenuous, as ours has proven, even though long-lasting. What I learned from #3 has allowed me to act in a more healthy manner when #2 presents itself and avoid the emotional attachment that makes #3 unhealthy.

 

As an interesting aside, I made far more platonic female friends prior to losing my virginity. Becoming sexually active changed my perspective a bit. For most people, that's irrelevant, since they become sexual in their teens, but, doing so as an adult after having many friendships with women prior was instructive. I now find it much more difficult to be intimate (as a friend) with a woman without feeling sexual. That said, the years of friendship skills I learned as an adult helps me manage those feelings in a more healthy way. One datapoint

 

Oh, lastly, IMO, 'platonic' describes our intrinsic connection with another person. In opposite sex interactions, I can easily gauge the difference in myself by how I express affection. I'm loving and affectionate with both "types", but, where there's underlying sexual attraction, the same actions, like embracing or kissing, "feel" different. IMO, that's the difference between platonic love and romantic (or sexual) love.

 

Hope that helps!

[carhill]

Why don't most men invest time and energy in platonic relationships? Because they are looking for a sexual relationship? And if they do develop a platonic friendship, they are hoping for something more? Or are you saying that they will only develop a platonic friendship with a member of the opposite sex because they know the attraction won't grow?

They do invest, with other men. My few long-term platonic relationships with women arose out of shared interests. This is because my interest pattern is diverse and embraces many interests 'traditional' men eschew, like shopping, gardening, and cooking (not BBQ'ing ) for example. There's a lot of stuff I can share with and learn from women that I sincerely enjoy. No sex is required for that kind of intimacy.

 

My experience (and, as I said above, one datapoint) with women is that I have never, not once, not ever, had a romance grow out of what started as a platonic friendship. Evidence read here on LS supports that data. The classic response, IME, as intimacy grows, is that "I wouldn't want to risk our friendship". This, to me, means two things. Superficially, the woman is risk-averse, a quality I'd likely find incompatible in a life-partner, and/or, two, she is using nice language to let me down gently so as to maintain the value she extracts from the friendship. It is now, being healthier, that I examine the growing intimacy (by this I mean shared feelings and life events) and see whether it is my feelings of attraction, if there, which are clouding the true friend she's being to me, or is that friendship authentic and sincerely offered. If the former, I'd likely pull back now and end the friendship; if the latter, I'm more likely to push through my own feelings and evolve to a truly platonic state, mainly because close friends of either gender are exceedingly difficult to find.

 

If that's a non-answer, my apologies. Some things just don't translate well to the written word for me.

[paddington bear]

Thanks C, no that pretty much explains it, I just didn't fully understand what you meant in your previous post.

 

My 'so-called' platonic friend who wasn't ready for a relationship totally confused me on so many occassions by getting jealous of other men, one instance instance out of many, we went out together and met another male friend. This other guy is very flirty and spent the night complimenting me and flirting. The male friend that I was (and still am unfortunately) attracted to grew dangerously quiet. When Mr. Flirty was in the bathroom he would say things like 'I wish I was here with just you, I don't think I'm a 'group' kind of person' and then switch to stony silence with the 'competition' returned.

 

A row then brewed between him and Mr. Flirty which I had to intervene before it came to blows. Then he later sulked and picked on an unrelated topic to pull me up on in order to get my attention, when he had my attention again (as he saw it, it wasn't like I was playing one guy off the other, I was being very fair...out with two male friends, talking to each of them equally) he then spent the rest of the night complimenting me, dancing with me, basically doing everything in his power to keep my focus on him and not the other guy.

 

And yet....he still didn't want me as more than a friend. This is what messes with my head totally, you assume that guys who say they want to just 'be friends' but who then flirt with you, who talk to you about everything, who get jealously protective about other guys coming near you must be sexually attracted to you. But they are not. It simply confuses the hell out of me. That's all I can say. I just don't get it. I grudgingly accepted the friends offer, but if he just wanted friendship why the possessiveness and jealousy, why the desperation to keep me in his life any time I tried to extracate myself to find someone who wanted more than friends????? ARgggghhhhh!!!! Total headwrecker.

 

Sorry for the threadjack Lovelace...but as it's all about being friendzoned I hope it's of some use to you as well, since we both seem to end up in the same position over and over.

[carhill]

IMO, the best way to decipher this is to observe them with other women. To me, this 'friend' sounds confused and immature. Opinion?

[paddington bear]

IMO, the best way to decipher this is to observe them with other women. To me, this 'friend' sounds confused and immature. Opinion?

 

D'oh - that's so obvious that it had never even occurred to me. First guy who friendzoned me treated women so well (initially), he had the flirting, the right thing to say down to a fine art, but as soon as he got the girl he found some way to drop them and evade any kind of a relationship - we are now, actually good friends totally platonic finally, but that took NC for that to happen. I guess he treated me in the same way he treated the others now that you meniton it. I got sucked in by his superb flirting skills only to be dropped and then friendzoned.

 

The guy above, well, he is shy with other women, he is too afraid to make a move on them, he waits for them to make a move on him and yes...totally confused too. When the guy is confused and you're not, you soon will be confused as you get those weird mixed signals going on.

[LoveLace]

mainly because close friends of either gender are exceedingly difficult to find.

 

 

 

Isn't that the truth. No matter how close I feel with C, I tell myself this over and over. Because he definitely applies to this.

 

It isn't threadjacking, Paddington. One reason I come here is to see that others can relate and that I'm not the only one with issues. You and I definitely relate here. For example, C and I hung out last night. He's still hung up on the mess of a girl he's trying to be "just friends" with right now...but I've been in a sitch very similar to his before (with the infamous Dan, for those of you who remember him, so what does that tell ya), so I've been giving him a lot of thoughts and advice, putting myself in his shoes at the same time. I've been comparing Dan and her a lot, which he probably hates, but it's too easy to do, because this chick makes him feel exactly the way Dan did me....like he's not good enough. He's been pretty receptive to what I have to say, for the most part...it seems like slowly and surely he's learning I'm right...he admits that he deserves better, etc.

 

So that's the platonic part. Then we are at the baseball game, where they have the "kiss cam" thing going on, and C says, "if they put that on us, I'll use my tongue and everything..."....he waited for my reaction, so I just laughed, and he did too...I assume he's joking, right? Do you say things like that to someone you are not attracted to? To me, this steps outside of the "platonic" lines, but he might not see it that way. And the more time we've spent together, the more we talk about sex...last night was the most...we got more detailed and graphic about sex than we ever have...what we like or don't like, etc....I saw his place for the 1st time and he offered me to crash there, I think he may have even said he would share his bed, but I insisted on just driving home...because I don't know if that's a "platonic" offer, or what...earlier that night he said "we need to get laid"...and we laugh. Then later that night I kept saying how great a friend he's a guy that wont try to fk me. But the truth is, after that, I did start to think of him more sexually than I have before. Maybe that was just because the hot talk, well, made me hot, hehe.

 

My friends are now insisting that he must be having 2nd thoughts about me....because I'm there for everytime his "friend" is not. I've also caught him check me out a couple times lately, no big deal cuz he's a guy, but it's nothing I"ve ever noticed him doing before.

 

So as you said, Paddington....we get into situations like these, it isn't like we are crazy, signals are flying all over the place, and we are only human so of course we are going wonder, wonder, and wonder some more...about what the heck is going on here?....but in the end....you said it, friend-zoned galore. Now I wonder if I should communicate to C that sexual feelings arose within me, but that creates a potentially awkward friendship that hasn't been awkward at all. I can choose to ignore it, to avoid that awkwardness, OR I can be the honest friend that I claim to be, tell him when I think this way, and just approach it as something that friends just talk about, and trust that neither of us would let it "change things". Nah...ignoring it is easier. Not to mention, it would be less time I have to hear a guy say, "I just don't see you that way"....yea, no thanks. Why set myself up to hear something I already know?

 

Being friends first is what most people want, and it seems pretty smart, but friend-zoning happens too easily for some of us...I don't know why that is different from person to person, but I think it is. If I like someone, I'd prefer for it to just start out as exactly that, so that there's no confusion from the get-go. But I can't seem to find that, either, Paddington, and I'm sure we both want to.

[carhill]

LL, in my opinion, what you're seeing is a guy © talking. Bla, bla. It's just noise. If he had sincere romantic interest, those words would be supported with positive actions. Also, IMO, some of his remarks are inappropriate and disrespectful to a valued female friend. This is no different than a woman who is otherwise unavailable or disinterested flirting with me, as a platonic friend. It disrespects the trust and intimacy we share.

 

Personally, I'd bait up in different waters if I wanted a healthy LTR. I've dealt with my own issues of attracting unhealthy potentials and I think that can work both ways. IMO, the answers reside within you

[paddington bear]

LL I just posted somewhere else that with my last friendzone experience that I should have stated clearly that I was interested in more than friendship from the offset, thus clearing things up from the very beginning. I was too scared of the rejection to do so, so instead clung on in in the hope that his actions would show me that he did in fact like me as more than a friend.

 

When he beat me to it and said friends only...for now, I felt like by my saying 'no, I want more' that it left me totally vulnerable and exposed. You've already been rejected as a romantic partner by being friendzoned and so instead of making myself feel more rejected by actually admitting that I wanted more, instead I said 'yeah ok' because my dented pride didn't want him to know that I really really liked him and had a huge crush on him.

 

But I should have just spoken up really. I'm now trying to turn it around in my head from 'oh no, if I actually admit to vulnerable feelings of attraction to someone, he will reject me, so I'll just keep schtum' to 'well, why is it embarrassing to be attracted to someone, it is normal when a man and a woman click for someone to start thinking about sex and relationships and romance. Just state your interest and if they say no, say sorry buddy I have enough friends, good luck with your life'. It's actually more empowering to be honest and vulnerable than to say nothing and hang around like a wallflower for someone to pick you.

 

So, I guess my point is, that yes, you're in the friendzone with this C guy, he's now started getting flirty with you, giving you hints about sex etc. Maybe you should just speak up and face the rejection. I've found that these platonic friendships between a single guy and a single girl end in tears anyway as one party always moves on and finds someone else, thus the closeness of the relationship changes anyway. So, by saying something, you're not ruining the friendship, the friendship will be ruined in the future by the arrival of a 3rd party in one of your lives. You only need him now because you're single and likewise, to fill a gap, to be emotionally close to someone. Once that gap is gone for one of you, then it's close friendship over, not friendship over, just close friendship.

 

So I say, take the bull by the horns once and for all and say something. Reaveal your deepest self, if he starts to flirt again take that opportunity to do or say something. Doesn't have to be big and heavy discussion. I reckon you're so weighed down with worry that you'll be rejected and so trying to be cool around him that you're afraid to flirt back. So, I dunno, just kiss him or somthing and with a cheeky grin say 'is that what you've been hinting about all night?' or whatever. If he acts shocked, tells you that he doens't see you in that way, shrug your shoulders and tell him, well if you don't want pretty girls like me kissing you, you shouldn't flirt with them in the first place. Keep everything light and fun. Unrequited love/crushes get so heavy emotionally because they're fraught with longing and fear and I think that crushes the flirtateous side, so afriad of rejection that you play it cool or feel you should discuss at length.

 

As the cliche goes you regret what you haven't done, not what you have. That's my 2 cents worth as I am regretting what I didn't do, would have saved me a lot of heartache down the line if I'd got over the rejection initially.

[carhill]

Keep everything light and fun. Unrequited love/crushes get so heavy emotionally because they're fraught with longing and fear and I think that crushes the flirtatious side, so afraid of rejection that you play it cool or feel you should discuss at length.

 

Wise advice. Thanks

[LoveLace]

LL I just posted somewhere else that with my last friendzone experience that I should have stated clearly that I was interested in more than friendship from the offset, thus clearing things up from the very beginning. I was too scared of the rejection to do so, so instead clung on in in the hope that his actions would show me that he did in fact like me as more than a friend.

 

When he beat me to it and said friends only...for now, I felt like by my saying 'no, I want more' that it left me totally vulnerable and exposed. You've already been rejected as a romantic partner by being friendzoned and so instead of making myself feel more rejected by actually admitting that I wanted more, instead I said 'yeah ok' because my dented pride didn't want him to know that I really really liked him and had a huge crush on him.

 

But I should have just spoken up really. I'm now trying to turn it around in my head from 'oh no, if I actually admit to vulnerable feelings of attraction to someone, he will reject me, so I'll just keep schtum' to 'well, why is it embarrassing to be attracted to someone, it is normal when a man and a woman click for someone to start thinking about sex and relationships and romance. Just state your interest and if they say no, say sorry buddy I have enough friends, good luck with your life'. It's actually more empowering to be honest and vulnerable than to say nothing and hang around like a wallflower for someone to pick you.

 

So, I guess my point is, that yes, you're in the friendzone with this C guy, he's now started getting flirty with you, giving you hints about sex etc. Maybe you should just speak up and face the rejection. I've found that these platonic friendships between a single guy and a single girl end in tears anyway as one party always moves on and finds someone else, thus the closeness of the relationship changes anyway. So, by saying something, you're not ruining the friendship, the friendship will be ruined in the future by the arrival of a 3rd party in one of your lives. You only need him now because you're single and likewise, to fill a gap, to be emotionally close to someone. Once that gap is gone for one of you, then it's close friendship over, not friendship over, just close friendship.

 

So I say, take the bull by the horns once and for all and say something. Reaveal your deepest self, if he starts to flirt again take that opportunity to do or say something. Doesn't have to be big and heavy discussion. I reckon you're so weighed down with worry that you'll be rejected and so trying to be cool around him that you're afraid to flirt back. So, I dunno, just kiss him or somthing and with a cheeky grin say 'is that what you've been hinting about all night?' or whatever. If he acts shocked, tells you that he doens't see you in that way, shrug your shoulders and tell him, well if you don't want pretty girls like me kissing you, you shouldn't flirt with them in the first place. Keep everything light and fun. Unrequited love/crushes get so heavy emotionally because they're fraught with longing and fear and I think that crushes the flirtateous side, so afriad of rejection that you play it cool or feel you should discuss at length.

 

As the cliche goes you regret what you haven't done, not what you have. That's my 2 cents worth as I am regretting what I didn't do, would have saved me a lot of heartache down the line if I'd got over the rejection initially.

 

 

Oh that all makes so much sense. This sucks because I've thought about him sexually, several times today. But I also haven't gotten any in a while, so I'm sure that too much hanging out with an attractive person that you talk about sex with, doesn't help that, hehe.

 

I don't see myself going far enough to just plant one on him...we already kiss each other lightly on the lips when we greet each other or say bye...I just don't see myself being bold enough to jump him...unless maybe he flirts majorly again, I don't know. You are right about the lengthy discussion, however C is a lengthy discussion kind of guy. With him, it will inevitably end up that way, no matter what the case...with him that is the case with everything, so if I dont make that happen, but then jump him, he would be the one to make a discussion, I'm sure. Which isn't a bad thing. It seems a lot easier to just let it be the friendship that it is, keep trying to meet other guys, and even though 1 or both of us will finally end up with someone, we have a friends-for-life kind of thing here...not necessarily hanging out all the time like we do now, but definitely each other's supporters for years to come. It can be that way, if I can manage to blow off any sexual tension that I might think is there. I also have to blow off what my friends tell me because they are so certain that he likes me on that level; I've been blowing that off for a long time, actually. It's flattering to hear, but I always disagree with them, and in the mean time our friendship just gets closer and closer...I'm even starting to feel "C overkill" a little, it's just been that frequent, and every time I feel like I want a break from him for a minute, he calls. Sheesh....it isn't like he gets on my nerves, it's just been a lot of one person and I"m not used to that, even from girl friends, really. But then I always still end up having a total blast with him.

 

It kills me how much he calls and wants to hang out now...it's funny how we started as sporadic acquaintances like 9 years ago, to this now. I really never thought that we would be this close. It's naturally happend that way, so it'll either stay that way naturally, or become something else naturally, though I'm counting on the 1st one, and I feel pretty peaceful with everything like it is. Except for the sex thing today, that's a bit disturbing, lol, but I'm sure it's just temporary...

[WineCountry]

Like LL and WineCountry, I am college educated, independent, attractive, have my shiot together, etc., and am very much in a position of authority, and yet I've never used those characteristics as an explanation for any of the dating troubles I had before I met my BF.

 

 

Well GREAT for you, there STAR. But the reason I mentioned it as an 'issue' is because it HAS been an issue FOR ME, seeing as it's MY LIFE I was speaking of. I have had guys come up to me, flirting, and then freeze when they found out what I did for a living. I have had male friends straight out tell me they would never date someone in my position.

 

I had a male friend say to me " look at you, you have a good job, you have your own home, your own things, what guy is going to want you'? Men like to feel needed ".

 

Now granted, that particular friend, who will never admit it, is insecure. But, some men DO feel that way, maybe not as bad as him, but they do.

 

It just chaps my butt a bit for someone to perhaps hint that I am using that as an excuse for some dating issues. I know what i have experienced in MY life. The fact that someone else didnt experience that doesnt change what I HAVE experienced.

 

Do i need to look in different places then for men? Yah no kidding.