I don't get men...

[LoveLace]

Well GREAT for you, there STAR. But the reason I mentioned it as an 'issue' is because it HAS been an issue FOR ME, seeing as it's MY LIFE I was speaking of. I have had guys come up to me, flirting, and then freeze when they found out what I did for a living. I have had male friends straight out tell me they would never date someone in my position.

 

I had a male friend say to me " look at you, you have a good job, you have your own home, your own things, what guy is going to want you'? Men like to feel needed ".

 

Now granted, that particular friend, who will never admit it, is insecure. But, some men DO feel that way, maybe not as bad as him, but they do.

 

It just chaps my butt a bit for someone to perhaps hint that I am using that as an excuse for some dating issues. I know what i have experienced in MY life. The fact that someone else didnt experience that doesnt change what I HAVE experienced.

 

Do i need to look in different places then for men? Yah no kidding.

 

 

I know what you mean. In my case, I've had guy friends tell me I look "unapproachable" sometimes because actually, I look perfectly happy on my own, in a way that looks like I don't want to be bothered, in a way that I'm independent and don't "need" anyone, therefore I guess there's no challenge in it for them. I don't mean to give off that vibe, but apparently I do, at least to the ones who perceive independence in that way.

 

And I've definitely had some men act funny when I'd say that i was a nursing student...they were like wow, that's great, you know, and then suddenly it's like they lose confidence or interest in pursuing....I don't know why because it isn't like a nurse can't be "needy", just because it's a good job that pays an ok amount of money. Geez, it isn't like I'm the president or something. I think some guys just don't want to feel like the woman is smarter than they, or more successful than they....men in more successful positions than me, are more likely to be encouraging or impressed by what I do....but those are also the same guys who I think lack attraction to me...the ones that friendzone me. Of course, I'm not in nursing school now so this doesn't apply anymore, just saying, I know exactly what you mean. In MY life, I think it's a pretty small factor in my dating problems, but for you Wine it sounds like a pretty big issue.

[IrishCarBomb]

I had a male friend say to me " look at you, you have a good job, you have your own home, your own things, what guy is going to want you'? Men like to feel needed ".

 

Now granted, that particular friend, who will never admit it, is insecure. But, some men DO feel that way, maybe not as bad as him, but they do.

 

It just chaps my butt a bit for someone to perhaps hint that I am using that as an excuse for some dating issues.

 

But aren't you making an excuse? I don't mean to come off confrontational, but why do you list those positive traits (independence, education, success, etc.) as traits that scare men off, when in reality you're just ignoring that your positive traits only make insecure and unworthy men more transparent? Wouldn't you prefer to know that these guys are not worth your time beforehand?

[carhill]

I'm not in nursing school now so this doesn't apply anymore

Crap, they really kicked you out of the program? Well, FWIW, the female friend I write a lot about here started her RN program yesterday at the ripe old age of 47. I can't imagine a day when what she's choosing to do or the commitment to it would negatively affect my opinion of and love for her. In your case, a healthy man will recognize your *want* for him, and not require a *need*. Further, why would a smart woman lament a man who was intimidated by her intelligence? IMO, he'd be a non-issue, regardless of how he might "friendzone" you. Next, even if that means a lot of 'nexts'.

 

At the end of this I'll insert a gentle reminder to take notice of those who do respond positively and supportively to your intrinsic personality. We often miss those potentials because of the lack of conflict and/or drama and the attendant emotional stimulation. That's your work, to recognize a healthy potential. Hope it works out

[WineCountry]

I know what you mean. In my case, I've had guy friends tell me I look "unapproachable" sometimes because actually, I look perfectly happy on my own, in a way that looks like I don't want to be bothered, in a way that I'm independent and don't "need" anyone, therefore I guess there's no challenge in it for them. I don't mean to give off that vibe, but apparently I do, at least to the ones who perceive independence in that way.

 

And I've definitely had some men act funny when I'd say that i was a nursing student...they were like wow, that's great, you know, and then suddenly it's like they lose confidence or interest in pursuing....I don't know why because it isn't like a nurse can't be "needy", just because it's a good job that pays an ok amount of money. Geez, it isn't like I'm the president or something. I think some guys just don't want to feel like the woman is smarter than they, or more successful than they....men in more successful positions than me, are more likely to be encouraging or impressed by what I do....but those are also the same guys who I think lack attraction to me...the ones that friendzone me. Of course, I'm not in nursing school now so this doesn't apply anymore, just saying, I know exactly what you mean. In MY life, I think it's a pretty small factor in my dating problems, but for you Wine it sounds like a pretty big issue.

 

Yeah Lace, the parts i highlighted ring true for me too. I think i have that cool, confident, independent vibe too. I dont mean to give that off either, but then i think, is it a BAD thing to be able to take care of yourself? lol

 

I am a police detective. Men get real squirrely about that sometimes because of the power thing, i guess. It has been quite the issue at times. I think they dont like it that a woman has a position like that. I can understand why a good chunk of woman officers end up with other cops. Because other cops wont give you that attitude. They dont care, because they are cops too.

[Trialbyfire]

It's fact that some men don't want to pursue women who are more successful than them, although I wouldn't say it has anything to do with intimidation on their part. This is actually a pet peeve of mine, in that it's less about intimidation and more about preferences. No one person's positive traits, will be viewed as positive to everyone else. Same goes for negative traits. No one is universally attractive.

 

Why not view it as incompatibility and move on to greener pastures? The less time you waste on negativity, the more time you can spend being with people who are a positive influence on you, including any potentials for romance.

[WineCountry]

But aren't you making an excuse? I don't mean to come off confrontational, but why do you list those positive traits (independence, education, success, etc.) as traits that scare men off, when in reality you're just ignoring that your positive traits only make insecure and unworthy men more transparent? Wouldn't you prefer to know that these guys are not worth your time beforehand?

 

 

You are 100% right, Irish. And i DO tell myself that only insecure men would act like that. In my HEAD, i know that's the truth. But sometimes It does make me feel bad.

 

But, i need to expand my circle of people, branch out more. Perhaps i will meet more 'enlightened' men. lol

 

But thanks Irish for reminding me that I should be thankful about seeing a persons true colors quickly. That is the positive side of it.

[LoveLace]

Crap, they really kicked you out of the program? Well, FWIW, the female friend I write a lot about here started her RN program yesterday at the ripe old age of 47. I can't imagine a day when what she's choosing to do or the commitment to it would negatively affect my opinion of and love for her. In your case, a healthy man will recognize your *want* for him, and not require a *need*. Further, why would a smart woman lament a man who was intimidated by her intelligence? IMO, he'd be a non-issue, regardless of how he might "friendzone" you. Next, even if that means a lot of 'nexts'.

 

At the end of this I'll insert a gentle reminder to take notice of those who do respond positively and supportively to your intrinsic personality. We often miss those potentials because of the lack of conflict and/or drama and the attendant emotional stimulation. That's your work, to recognize a healthy potential. Hope it works out

 

 

 

Yes I'm out of the program. But it's not the end...I'm approaching the process of transferring elsewhere...schools say that this shouldn't be a problem for me, but we'll see, cuz I have some pretty old credits that might be old enough for them to want over again. That would add years to the goal I've already put years into...so it all depends on what they say about that, but we will see.

 

If I have felt any guy was bothered by it, that's an instant turn-off for me, because I want a supporter in my life, so it's never a problem to blow off the ones who don't appear able to be that for me. It's just a shame when something results this way, becaues most other things about the guy could be great, but if I don't think he would be an encouraging partner, he's out. I have friends with husbands, that NEVER support their talents or hard work, or encourage further life goals, because THEY want to look like the more successful person, all around, in the marriage. They don't tell their wives, "hey, good work". So anytime I get hint that a guy might be like that, I run. So it's not about intimidation, like TBF said, as much as it's just about what the guy wants, period. It's not an excuse, it DOES exist, more frequently than I care for. But I don't blame it on my dating problems, near as much as I blame things on myself.

 

And Wine, it is a postive way that Irish looks at your problem...the guys that seem to have a problem with your profession, you don't want anyway, so that's just weeding out the candidates faster ...at least we have that much going on for us...

[BlueEyedGirl]

All I know is that men are put off by the fact that I have PhD in mathematics. It's not like I brag about it but when they ask me what I do for a living (a postdoc position) I have to mention it. And then I watch converstion die right down. It happens with women too, they approach me say at a party we have a friendly chat, when they find out what I do they just make their excuses and leave

[carhill]

I don't get why guys think your job is who you are. Who do they think you are? Men?

 

Wait a minute..... wanders off muttering

 

[WineCountry]

I don't get why guys think your job is who you are. Who do they think you are? Men?

 

Wait a minute..... wanders off muttering

 

 

 

LOL hahahah

[LoveLace]

I don't get why guys think your job is who you are. Who do they think you are? Men?

 

Wait a minute..... wanders off muttering

 

 

 

 

LOL.

 

This is interesting to me....C is a very, very successful musician that busts his butt...his GF, or should I say the girl he's in love with, drinks vodka, takes pills, passes out, and pretty much never goes to work. She doesn't exactly sound smart, either (obviously), I mean this is almost everyday life for her. You would think that successful, hard-working people would want the same, someone they can look up to. But I guess others would rather have someone who looks up to THEM. As if they need it for their ego. I personally could care less if a guy is more or less successful than me...but I do want someone I look up to and respect, for any reason. A vodka-pill guy that never goes to work, wouldn't cut it. But I think perhaps some yearn for someone that needs to be taken care of, in a sense. Ah, whatever, I'm no one to talk about making bad choices of people to fall in love with, hehe. Dan didn't have his crap together, but I looked up to him for his personality, his positive attitude, and drive for certain passions in his life. But if it came down to it, I couldn't actually handle living with someone I couldn't count on for major things, like you know, a steady job, derr.

[imani]

All I know is that men are put off by the fact that I have PhD in mathematics. It's not like I brag about it but when they ask me what I do for a living (a postdoc position) I have to mention it. And then I watch converstion die right down. It happens with women too, they approach me say at a party we have a friendly chat, when they find out what I do they just make their excuses and leave

 

Well, that is pretty impressive, BEG.

 

Some people may be intimidated by other people's success because somewhere in their head they may have it that their profession isn't on the same level. Probably a lack of self esteem.

 

But as for men, I think they'll probably be more concerned about a woman's look than her job. And there will also be those who just won't care what her occupation is. Some doctors date strippers and some businessmen/politicians hire escorts. Its a toss up as to what they truly want.

[shadowplay]

No offense but do you realize how many non-arm candy women have partners? Don't say these men are settling because many are madly in love with their SOs.

 

Of course I don't think they're settling. I just wish there were more men like that.

[shadowplay]

All I know is that men are put off by the fact that I have PhD in mathematics. It's not like I brag about it but when they ask me what I do for a living (a postdoc position) I have to mention it. And then I watch converstion die right down. It happens with women too, they approach me say at a party we have a friendly chat, when they find out what I do they just make their excuses and leave

 

Wow, I didn't know that about you BEG. That's awesome!

[Chrome Barracuda]

I just don't get it. Ran into an acquaintance last night, one of those things where you never call each other, but if you see each other out, you talk or whatever. I always thought he was cute but I never really felt that from him in return. Last night we were at a gathering, and after all our friends left, just he and I sat and talked for a good hour or more, talked about relationships and dating and such, more than we've ever talked before...we talked about single parents because he is one, and I had been saying I don't mind dating men with kids, and at 1 point he mentioned I should meet his son sometime, which I'd think you'd only say to a person your interested in, but I guess I was wrong...

 

When it was time to go we walked near our cars and he hugged me, but didn't try to go in for a kiss or anything...we did find out we have a mutual friend that bartends, so we said we will go see that person sometime, otherwise I didn't feel interest on his part....this boggles me, because if I'm not attracted to someone, I'm sorry but I don't normally spend so much time talking to them, then. I have a few guy friends that I'm not interested in that way, so I talk with them obviously, but if I'm out as the single chick that I am, I dont' waste time talking to someone I don't feel attraction for, in some way or another.

 

He definitely seemed to enjoy talking with me but still, isn't attraction supposed to make it enjoyable to begin with? I'm so tired of guys not seeing me as more than friends, and I think it's obvious that I like you when I'm smiling and talking to you, touching your arm playfully, etc, I shouldn't have to be more forward than that, right? I get friend-zoned left and right and I seem to be the only person who thinks I'm attractive. I'm so tired of being very lonely this way. What am I doing wrong? I don't like to throw myself at guys, I like to be friends 1st. But it never goes beyond that. Help!!!!

 

If he's introducing you to his son!!!!??? he's definitely Feeling YOU!!!

 

he's taking it slow maybe he just got out a bad relationship. some men these days aint jumping into things with both feet unless their sure. men dont want any new girls around their kids unless they believe it's a serious thing or they see it as a long term thing. Why are you so questioning everything, let it happen on it's own.

 

He will open up in time. Not one thing you have said from your first post gave any red flags. Sounds like a decent guy.

[LoveLace]

If he's introducing you to his son!!!!??? he's definitely Feeling YOU!!!

 

he's taking it slow maybe he just got out a bad relationship. some men these days aint jumping into things with both feet unless their sure. men dont want any new girls around their kids unless they believe it's a serious thing or they see it as a long term thing. Why are you so questioning everything, let it happen on it's own.

 

He will open up in time. Not one thing you have said from your first post gave any red flags. Sounds like a decent guy.

 

 

He does seem like a pretty decent guy...someone that knows him from high school, said they remember him as being fairly shy. He's not afraid to open up, but I definitely see where his shyness is coming from. Because of that I didn't expect him to suggest meeting his son, whom he's always talked about but certainly never said I should meet. But I view that as any parent proud to show off their kids to their friends. He has my # like I said, so if he wants to show him off that bad, he'll call...

[ilovefreshair]

I have to post because so much of this thread resonates with me personally. I'm at a breaking point of frustration with the kind of BS I seem to attract unknowingly.

 

I'm 27 and go between actively looking (dating sites) to not at all.

 

My guy friends have always thought very highly of me and most of them at some point have expressed interest. I don't mean that to sound arrogant because I'm far from it.

 

Nowadays they are all in relationships. I am constantly meeting guys, but they're all either in relationships (and seemingly open to something on the side) or single and only looking for sex.

 

I don't get it!

 

At any rate.. I will get over this mood but I don't think I'll ever understand men

[Star Gazer]

But aren't you making an excuse? I don't mean to come off confrontational, but why do you list those positive traits (independence, education, success, etc.) as traits that scare men off, when in reality you're just ignoring that your positive traits only make insecure and unworthy men more transparent? Wouldn't you prefer to know that these guys are not worth your time beforehand?

 

Precisely right, thanks.

 

I just don't buy the whole, "I'm too successful to date" whine that so many women project. It's just an excuse.

[LoveLace]

I have to post because so much of this thread resonates with me personally. I'm at a breaking point of frustration with the kind of BS I seem to attract unknowingly.

 

I'm 27 and go between actively looking (dating sites) to not at all.

 

My guy friends have always thought very highly of me and most of them at some point have expressed interest. I don't mean that to sound arrogant because I'm far from it.

 

Nowadays they are all in relationships. I am constantly meeting guys, but they're all either in relationships (and seemingly open to something on the side) or single and only looking for sex.

 

I don't get it!

 

At any rate.. I will get over this mood but I don't think I'll ever understand men

 

 

You and me both. It isn't as though I NEVER meet new men, it's just a majority of the time that I do, it's the way you described above, or they simply not interesting or attractive to me.

 

Last night I told C that I was going "fishing" because the night before that, we talked about "getting laid" and relationships, etc, but then I got lazy and decided to stay home instead, didn't feel like working hard enough for nothing, again last night, after all. Around midnight he texted and asked if I was having any luck. I was a little surprised that he wanted to know...if my guy friend told me that, I'd probably wait until at least the next day before asking about his luck...but I'm in the friend zone, so what do I know?

 

With guys I experience every possible scenario except for the most normal or most desirable one....I'll never get it either, I'm certainly running out of the strength it takes to try to, therefore you run out of patience because patience takes strength too...

 

It's always nice to hear about others with the same problem, even though it's unfortunate that too many of us are there...

[BlueEyedGirl]

I would seriously give one more shot to asking C something like, what would you think about us dating. If the response is negative, you could pretend it was a joke. He IS kind of showing much more interest lately.

[Isolde]

It's fact that some men don't want to pursue women who are more successful than them, although I wouldn't say it has anything to do with intimidation on their part. This is actually a pet peeve of mine, in that it's less about intimidation and more about preferences. No one person's positive traits, will be viewed as positive to everyone else. Same goes for negative traits. No one is universally attractive.

 

Why not view it as incompatibility and move on to greener pastures? The less time you waste on negativity, the more time you can spend being with people who are a positive influence on you, including any potentials for romance.

 

I agree with you, esp. the second paragraph. As for the preferences thing, it can be difficult to separate what's innate preferences and what's preconceived notions. Ah well, it's the same for women and height.

[Isolde]

Precisely right, thanks.

 

I just don't buy the whole, "I'm too successful to date" whine that so many women project. It's just an excuse.

 

I agree with this too. I think being very successful can make it harder to find a quality guy in some ways, but it's definitely not the kiss of death so many make it out to be. It's simply that the personality types that tend to make it big, the workaholic types, need to learn to find balance by reasserting their femininity in the relationship/emotional aspects of their lives. Some women do this very well, really, through making certain compromises in their lives.

[LoveLace]

I would seriously give one more shot to asking C something like, what would you think about us dating. If the response is negative, you could pretend it was a joke. He IS kind of showing much more interest lately.

 

Yea, and talking with me about his ex GF at the same time...but it is possible to consider other people no matter how into someone else you are, that I know personally.

 

But yes, things feel different sometimes. After asking me about the "luck fishing" last night I told him I ended up staying home, then he asks, "so what else is new?"...and it's like well, I just saw you yesterday, how much could possibly be new? lol..he's been talking an awful lot about seeing couples and asking "why can't I find someone like that?"...so I guess after spending so much time with me and relating to each other in so many ways, it isn't obvious that "someone like that" is right there in front of him. That's the part where I"m convinced that my physical attraction must not add up. One friend of mine said she thinks he's realizing that I'm there for him in the ways that his ex GF was not, in the ways that he so badly wants her to be. But that doesn't mean he wants me like he wanted her, that's for sure.

 

Pretend it's a joke...kind of like when he suggested putting his tongue in my mouth for the "kiss cam"?...then he waited for me to react before he laughed along with me...I don't know...maybe...

[ilovefreshair]

I have to agree that the more successful and confident we are as women, the higher our expectations in a partner and of course that makes it more challenging.

 

I know in HS my criteria included, is he cute? are his friends ok? DONE!

 

Now there's a lot more to consider as we've narrowed down what we are looking for specifically... I think I speak for all of us in saying that we have to be able to picture ourself marrying them or why bother at this point?

 

I agree that focusing on the negativity is only counter-productive but as mentioned previously, there are a lot of pressures as you get older. My grandmother constantly asks me when I'm going to get married and have children for her! My dad makes snide remarks..... it adds up!

[ilovefreshair]

LoveLace - From what I've read, you are driving yourself crazy wondering about the "what-if's". For your own emotional health you need to talk to him about it! Trust me, I know how difficult it can be but it will stop the wondering and you can either move on with a relationship with him, or move on with your life.

 

I'll channel all my courage to you!