Snooping 101

[HisSweetThing]

I dont agree with anyone who says its violating privacy, if its your husband/ wife you have a right to know. I think if your looking for the best way to confirm theyre cheating , you obviously have that gut feeling they are. That was my case, started with a gut feeling and I questioned her on everything, she lied and lied some more. A $25 voice activated recorder under her car seat confirmed everything. Then she admitted that everything I had questioned and thought, was really going on.

 

I just have to disagree. I think every person is entitled to a small amount of privacy. We don't "own" one another. I think if your marriage has come to the point where you need to purchase something to check on your spouse, you would be better off paying for marriage counseling.

[Reggie]

Marriage counseling will not help, because, typically, the WS is lying about cheating. No progress can be made while this is going on.

My first wife and I went to counseling for a few months before I told her that it was doing no good. She was still lying and cheating.

[clv0116]

I'm curious...what kinds of things do you "have to keep secret" from your wife?

 

I'm privy to (as are many professionals) trade secrets and inside knowledge that is need-to-know and often legally encumbered via NDA and other instruments, for starters.

 

 

 

I can't think of anything offhand that I "have to keep secret" from my wife. I make it clear to any of my friends who would confide something with me that I will absolutely share it with my wife

 

If someone asks me to keep something in confidence inside or outside the office I also treat that as my duty to honor. I did give my word after all.

 

 

 

But, if you absolutely know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you would file for divorce the moment you SUSPECTED (not proved, but SUSPECTED) that your wife could be cheating on you

 

No, I'd have to know for sure, but I'm not gonna dig up dirt. My default mode is to trust the woman I love.

[Reggie]

That was my mode, as well. Cost me about 4 years and lots of $$ spent subsidizing affairs.

[Owl]

I'm privy to (as are many professionals) trade secrets and inside knowledge that is need-to-know and often legally encumbered via NDA and other instruments, for starters.

 

Understood. So am I. So I guess in this ONE respect, I do keep information from her. But...I also don't have ANY reason to communicate any of these things outside of a professional, business situation. And since I also give my wife absolutely no reason whatsoever to be concerned about my behavior or actions, there's no reason for her to START snooping.

 

If someone asks me to keep something in confidence inside or outside the office I also treat that as my duty to honor. I did give my word after all.

 

Again, that's how you choose to handle it. In my case, I clearly spell out to them up front that I'll share anything they tell me with my wife, but it goes no further than that. If they choose to share with me after that, it's with their full knowledge and consent...or they choose not to tell me whatever it is, and that's fine too.

 

No, I'd have to know for sure, but I'm not gonna dig up dirt. My default mode is to trust the woman I love.

 

So is EVERYONE's default mode...until they have reason to suspect something. So...HOW would you "know for sure"? You can be assured that she'd lie about it...your time here on LS should have proven that to you already.

 

So what would be your plan for dealing with things if you've suspected for 2 months, but couldn't get any hardcore evidence just by watching her and asking her?

 

That's where I found myself...and what led to my "snooping".

 

Had I not "snooped"...things would likely have turned out much differently. In your case, since you'd divorce...I would guess that you'd just let things go from bad to worse without taking any action until it got to the divorce point? If not, what specifically would you do to find out the truth then?

[Owl]

I just have to disagree. I think every person is entitled to a small amount of privacy. We don't "own" one another. I think if your marriage has come to the point where you need to purchase something to check on your spouse, you would be better off paying for marriage counseling.

 

Why? What does that "privacy" give you, that you would lose if your husband read your email?

 

I used to feel as you do. I still do, to a degree. Your earlier post reminded me of a comment along these lines that I read on another forum.

 

"Privacy is closing the bathroom door when you use the restroom. Secrecy is keeping a private cell phone that your husband doesn't know about so that you can communicate with OM."

 

And Reggie has it right. Marriage counseling would be totally useless if your spouse was engaged in an affair but you didn't have proof about it. They won't admit it while in the sessions, and the sessions will be useless since they'll be focused on all the wrong things and working on less than half the needed information.

 

Look at it this way...your MM couldn't possibly 'get away' with his affair if his wife were checking his emails and such, right?

[NoIDidn't]

"Privacy is closing the bathroom door when you use the restroom. Secrecy is keeping a private cell phone that your husband doesn't know about so that you can communicate with OM."

 

I agree that there is a difference between privacy and secrecy.

 

Many people in affairs mistake one for the other, and fight for their privacy when they are really trying to maintain secrecy and keep their spouse in the dark about what they are really up to. Hence the need for snooping so you can know what they are up to.

[Reggie]

Understood. So am I. So I guess in this ONE respect, I do keep information from her. But...I also don't have ANY reason to communicate any of these things outside of a professional, business situation. And since I also give my wife absolutely no reason whatsoever to be concerned about my behavior or actions, there's no reason for her to START snooping.

 

 

 

Again, that's how you choose to handle it. In my case, I clearly spell out to them up front that I'll share anything they tell me with my wife, but it goes no further than that. If they choose to share with me after that, it's with their full knowledge and consent...or they choose not to tell me whatever it is, and that's fine too.

 

 

 

So is EVERYONE's default mode...until they have reason to suspect something. So...HOW would you "know for sure"? You can be assured that she'd lie about it...your time here on LS should have proven that to you already.

 

So what would be your plan for dealing with things if you've suspected for 2 months, but couldn't get any hardcore evidence just by watching her and asking her?

 

That's where I found myself...and what led to my "snooping".

 

Had I not "snooped"...things would likely have turned out much differently. In your case, since you'd divorce...I would guess that you'd just let things go from bad to worse without taking any action until it got to the divorce point? If not, what specifically would you do to find out the truth then?

 

On the bad to worse thing, in most cases, there seems to be nothing that can be done, regardless. But, I suppose languishing vs pro-actively divorcing would be worse. Once most folks step over the line, they ain't coming back.

[clv0116]

Understood. So am I. So I guess in this ONE respect, I do keep information from her.

 

Her snooping around is unacceptable after all, then?

 

 

 

But...I also don't have ANY reason to communicate any of these things outside of a professional, business situation. And since I also give my wife absolutely no reason whatsoever to be concerned about my behavior or actions, there's no reason for her to START snooping.

 

Of course. So her snooping around is unacceptable after all, then?

 

 

 

Again, that's how you choose to handle it. In my case, I clearly spell out to them up front that I'll share anything they tell me with my wife, but it goes no further than that.

 

If you want to keep a secret, tell no one. If you want to keep a secret and must tell someone, be sure he won't share it with HIS WIFE. For godsake. A typical woman can keep a secret as well as she can eat bran and then poop gold.

 

 

 

So...HOW would you "know for sure"?

 

Something blatant would have to happen. Unexplained pregnancy, etc.

 

 

 

So what would be your plan for dealing with things if you've suspected for 2 months, but couldn't get any hardcore evidence just by watching her and asking her?

 

Assume I'm wrong.

 

 

 

That's where I found myself...and what led to my "snooping".

 

Seems weak.

 

 

 

Had I not "snooped"...things would likely have turned out much differently. In your case, since you'd divorce...I would guess that you'd just let things go from bad to worse without taking any action until it got to the divorce point?

 

If there are no adverse issues in the marriage, then as long as I don't know about it it's a non issue. If there are issues in the marriage, we need to sort those issues out. If they cannot be resolved then that needs to be addressed.

 

The hypothetical presence or absence of an affair is destructive to obsess about.

 

 

 

If not, what specifically would you do to find out the truth then?

 

See above. Truth is overrated. For instance, if my future wife had a fling, and it never impacted any aspect of our marriage and she kept it secret ... is it really in anyones interest to dredge it up?

[Owl]

Her snooping around is unacceptable after all, then?

 

Of course. So her snooping around is unacceptable after all, then?

 

Not at all. She's welcome to snoop all she wants. She has full access to anything I am legally allowed to share...any personal email/cell phone/etc...

 

She's also well aware of how to contact my HR to start an investigation on my work stuff if she needs to.

 

I'm FINE with her snooping...unfortunately there's nothing I can do to give her access to my work stuff. I personally would trust her with any of that information, but legally can't do so.

 

 

If you want to keep a secret, tell no one. If you want to keep a secret and must tell someone, be sure he won't share it with HIS WIFE. For godsake. A typical woman can keep a secret as well as she can eat bran and then poop gold.

 

Nice. I'm sure that's a winning line at the bars too.

 

Something blatant would have to happen. Unexplained pregnancy, etc.

 

And you'd be content to WAIT for that kind of occurrence, no matter how long it takes?

 

Seems weak.

 

Well, you're entitled to think so. Luckily, I don't, nor did she. In reality, she's point blank commented that she was GLAD I took every action I needed to in order to fight for our marriage. Luckily, I value her opinion a lot more than I do yours.

 

If there are no adverse issues in the marriage, then as long as I don't know about it it's a non issue. If there are issues in the marriage, we need to sort those issues out. If they cannot be resolved then that needs to be addressed.

 

The hypothetical presence or absence of an affair is destructive to obsess about.

 

See above. Truth is overrated. For instance, if my future wife had a fling, and it never impacted any aspect of our marriage and she kept it secret ... is it really in anyones interest to dredge it up?

 

See, that's interesting. Really, on two fronts.

 

One, I've seen a number of people CLAIM that, but then I've never met someone who's spouse cheated on them that was angry about learning the truth, but not angry over the cheating.

 

Two, if you're EVER "ok" with your wife cheating on you as long as you don't know about it, you're never likely to have a close enough relationship to matter in the first place.

 

I think we're gonna have to just call this a "agree to disagree" moment. You clearly don't agree with my viewpoint, and I can't possibly relate to yours.

[NoIDidn't]

Truth is overrated. For instance, if my future wife had a fling, and it never impacted any aspect of our marriage and she kept it secret ... is it really in anyones interest to dredge it up?

 

Then that would mean that you have no reason for snooping. People that snoop HAVE had their marriages impacted by whatever is going on with their spouse.

[clv0116]

Then that would mean that you have no reason for snooping. People that snoop HAVE had their marriages impacted by whatever is going on with their spouse.

 

Impacted in what way?

[NoIDidn't]

Impacted in what way?

 

You said this first, so why don't you explain what you meant.

 

You said:

 

 

"For instance, if my future wife had a fling, and it never impacted any aspect of our marriage and she kept it secret ... is it really in anyones interest to dredge it up?"

 

Maybe then you can answer your own question.

[Reggie]

I see no way a spouse's cheating does not impact the relationship. It injects dishonesty and secrecy into it, as well as health risks.

I had the ostrich apporach, too. Never again. It resulted in financial problems, health risks,and a ton of gaslighting which caused me to question my sanity.

[cheatingheart]

I understand what everyone is saying, but I have to agree more with clv than with Owl. I think Owl's desire to work things out is extremely admirable, it's great, but still spending so much time on infidelity forums five years after the end of the affair seems obsessive enough that I have to wonder how wonderful the marriage can really be. It doesn't seem like someone who's really moved on.

 

And I understand saying that all you're really looking for is information, but most of the posts I read on this forum lead me to believe that what most betrayed spouses want is to lead their wayward spouse to see the error of their ways and put all their love and affection back into the marriage and spend the rest of their lives repenting. I wouldn't be able to live with that pressure or sense of control for the rest of my life. The analogy of teaching a child right from wrong made my skin crawl, and it's great if that worked for Owl and his wife, but that would be enough to make me want to live alone for the rest of my life.

 

I guess what it comes down to is that everyone is different, and what works for some people doesn't work for others. It would probably eliminate a lot of bickering on this forum if people didn't feel the need to always insist that their way is the best way. Everyone has their own set of dealbreakers.

[Reggie]

For me. it was strictly information gathering so I would know what happened to our money and whether I was at risk for an STD. I knew, if there was cheating, there was no way I would stay married and the reason for this incldes having no desire to punish or lead someone to my views on the value of fidelity. I have 5 kids. I did not need a spouse as a sixth.

[jasminetea]

I understand what everyone is saying, but I have to agree more with clv than with Owl. I think Owl's desire to work things out is extremely admirable, it's great, but still spending so much time on infidelity forums five years after the end of the affair seems obsessive enough that I have to wonder how wonderful the marriage can really be. It doesn't seem like someone who's really moved on.

 

Many, many years ago I joined a horse internet forum to ask a question about kissing spines and a potential treatment. The horse I was enquiring about was PTS five years ago but I'm still a member on that forum. I guess, in your view of the world, I haven't 'moved on' either.

 

And I understand saying that all you're really looking for is information, but most of the posts I read on this forum lead me to believe that what most betrayed spouses want is to lead their wayward spouse to see the error of their ways and put all their love and affection back into the marriage and spend the rest of their lives repenting. I wouldn't be able to live with that pressure or sense of control for the rest of my life. The analogy of teaching a child right from wrong made my skin crawl, and it's great if that worked for Owl and his wife, but that would be enough to make me want to live alone for the rest of my life.

 

When you feel that you love someone deeply and completely, when you've had a relationship that has been good for many years, built a family and a life with them, of course you're going to want to make your relationship with them better again. You've obviously never felt that way about anyone.

 

Oh and there's been no reference to the BS wanting their WS to repent for the rest of their lives, you've come up with that yourself.

[Owl]

I understand what everyone is saying, but I have to agree more with clv than with Owl. I think Owl's desire to work things out is extremely admirable, it's great, but still spending so much time on infidelity forums five years after the end of the affair seems obsessive enough that I have to wonder how wonderful the marriage can really be. It doesn't seem like someone who's really moved on.

 

That's assuming I'm obsessed. Not at all. I enjoy posting advice...it's really just that simple. My own situation is long since resolved...now, if I were here still requesting advice, you might be on to something.

 

 

And I understand saying that all you're really looking for is information, but most of the posts I read on this forum lead me to believe that what most betrayed spouses want is to lead their wayward spouse to see the error of their ways and put all their love and affection back into the marriage and spend the rest of their lives repenting. I wouldn't be able to live with that pressure or sense of control for the rest of my life. The analogy of teaching a child right from wrong made my skin crawl, and it's great if that worked for Owl and his wife, but that would be enough to make me want to live alone for the rest of my life.

 

I guess what it comes down to is that everyone is different, and what works for some people doesn't work for others. It would probably eliminate a lot of bickering on this forum if people didn't feel the need to always insist that their way is the best way. Everyone has their own set of dealbreakers.

 

So basically, if you were cheating, all you would want is to have your spouse ignore it and let it happen. Congratulations.

 

But the REAL question here is...what would you really and truly do if your husband/wife were cheating on you, and you could NOT get the truth out of them?

 

I'd suggest that you can SAY you'd do any number of things...but knowing exactly what you would do or not do is an unknown until you're faced with the situation.

[DNU1]

But the REAL question here is...what would you really and truly do if your husband/wife were cheating on you, and you could NOT get the truth out of them?

 

I'd suggest that you can SAY you'd do any number of things...but knowing exactly what you would do or not do is an unknown until you're faced with the situation.

 

Spot on Owl! All the hypothetical scenarios in the world cannot prepare you for the utter shock of finding out your spouse, the person you pledged your LIFE to, has cheated on you.

 

And waywards lie. They lie to protect the OP, they lie to protect the affair and keep it going. It's like a drug addict...they will lie, cheat and steal to keep getting their "fix." Affairs are similar.

 

I'm not ashamaed or feel guilty at all for protecting my marriage, for snooping on my WW. When I revealed my snooping to her after handing her divorce papers she was not mad. She understood what I was doing...I was protecting myself and the marriage.

 

She even admitted to being "very careful" when contacting the OM. And today, a month after divorce papers, she says it's a relief to have everything out in the open. No more pressure of lies, deception, etc.

 

The very first thing I always recommend when someone posts and says they suspect an affair or if WS has admitted an affair is that they SNOOP! You cannot and should never believe a wayward spouse. Verify.

[clv0116]

You said this first' date=' so why don't you explain what you meant.[/quote']

 

 

I gave one example. You asserted people have had their marriages impacted. Ball in your court.

[Nightmare]

My marriage was impacted greatly by her affair. She was emotionally and physically absent in the beginning and still. I saw something wrong during the holidays when my wife was doing nothing w our kids. I began to question her. She said I was being jealous and insane. She kicked me out of our house based on those reasons. I kept digging and questioning and I was completely right, even guessed the right OM. Stills lies to me and kids to this day. Guess whos out of the house now. Easy for anyone who hasnt dealt with it to say its snooping or wrong, but once you get that gut feeling I had, GAME ON.

[DNU1]

My marriage was impacted greatly by her affair. She was emotionally and physically absent in the beginning and still. I saw something wrong during the holidays when my wife was doing nothing w our kids. I began to question her. She said I was being jealous and insane. She kicked me out of our house based on those reasons. I kept digging and questioning and I was completely right, even guessed the right OM. Stills lies to me and kids to this day. Guess whos out of the house now. Easy for anyone who hasnt dealt with it to say its snooping or wrong, but once you get that gut feeling I had, GAME ON.

 

ROGER THAT! Excellent example Nightmare.

 

When your wife tried to turn the tables on you it's called gaslighting. Typical wayward spouse speak. Foggy babble that puts the BS on the defensive and makes them feel guilty, like they did something wrong.

 

YOU DID NOTHING WRONG! Nothing wrong with snooping when you have that gut feeling.

 

Sometimes I think Waywards come in here and bang on drums to make themselves feel better, to justify their actions. Sometimes I think they act like trolls. I'm not pointing the finger...I'm just sayin.

 

Great for you Nightmare that you found out and kicked her out. I wish I would have had the strength to do that years and years ago...before OMs #2-4. Ick.

 

But now I'm strong and I'm moving on.

[Reggie]

I gave one example. You asserted people have had their marriages impacted. Ball in your court.

 

Looks like a lot of people are recounting how it impacted them. I'd say the ball was well handled.

[PhoenixRise]

 

 

If there are no adverse issues in the marriage, then as long as I don't know about it it's a non issue. If there are issues in the marriage, we need to sort those issues out. If they cannot be resolved then that needs to be addressed.

 

The hypothetical presence or absence of an affair is destructive to obsess about.

 

 

 

See above. Truth is overrated. For instance, if my future wife had a fling, and it never impacted any aspect of our marriage and she kept it secret ... is it really in anyones interest to dredge it up?

 

 

 

Most people can not compartmentalize well enough have an affair that does NOT impact the marriage.

 

My WS became withdrawn and highly critical of me during his affair. He stopped spending as much time with me. All of this impacted the marriage well before Dday.

 

Lies Deception and Gaslighting all seriously impact the marriage and they are all a part of cheating.

 

AND

 

WSs use the trust of the BS against them. Because you trust them you don't question their explinations and you take their criticisms to heart.

 

In a situation like this.. it is a healthy thing for a BS to snoop to find out the truth.

[OpenBook]

I guess the (more important??) question is, what does one DO with that truth once it's discovered? Would every BS out there be able to handle the fallout from the exposure?

 

When faced with the two probable outcomes -- either the M goes on and the BS tortures the WS for the rest of their lives... or a divorce ensues with the devastating ripple effects on everyone in the family lasting for years, if not forever -- I'll wager many BS's out there simply choose not to deal with it at all. They would rather not know.