clv0116 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 So how do you explain all of the posters here who have provided direct evidence to the contrary? I have to admit, being married to a drug addict is way outside my experience so you might have me there. Other than that every single person seems to either be "recently fixed" and I'd bet just waiting for it to happen yet again, or separated/divorced. I stand by the statement I made early on, to paraphrase; "If it's that broken, spying won't fix it". Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have to admit, being married to a drug addict is way outside my experience so you might have me there. Other than that every single person seems to either be "recently fixed" and I'd bet just waiting for it to happen yet again, or separated/divorced. I stand by the statement I made early on, to paraphrase; "If it's that broken, spying won't fix it". I'm not married to a drug addict. My marriage has been successfully recovered for five years. I don't fit your qualifiers here. Spying DID fix it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author DNU1 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 I'm not married to a drug addict. My marriage has been successfully recovered for five years. I don't fit your qualifiers here. Spying DID fix it. good for you OWL! I'm happy to hear of a recovered marriage after an affair. Strength... Link to post Share on other sites
Nightmare Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have to admit, being married to a drug addict is way outside my experience so you might have me there. Other than that every single person seems to either be "recently fixed" and I'd bet just waiting for it to happen yet again, or separated/divorced. I stand by the statement I made early on, to paraphrase; "If it's that broken, spying won't fix it". I agree with that statement in that senario. But mine is.........IF YOU DONT KNOW ITS BROKEN, but feel like its breaking, YOU HAVE TO SPY TO FIND OUT WHY. Simple as that. Your basing your belief on a specific senario of a cheating spouse. They all share similiar patterns but none are the same. I agree that once a spouse cheats its over because they will do it again (most cases), but I had to find out that she was cheating to end it. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think that CLV feels that you're simply supposed to "divine" what the cause of the problem is. You should just mystically "know" what's wrong, and how to fix it. I'd also hazard that CLV feels that any marriage that suffers infidelity is completely and utterly unrecoverable, regardless of circumstance or situation. This of course with no true experience in dealing with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I cannot fathom what Civ is saying. If it is that borke , no need to fix it. But, you are supposed to just know it is that broke intuitively? This is simple. If your spouse is cheating, chances are you will not know. You wiull feel something is wrong, but will not know what. So, you snoop and take it from there. Some want to divorce. Some want to stay together. But, how the heck do you know what is going on without snooping? Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I cannot fathom what Civ is saying. If you are experiencing some dissatisfaction with your relationship then address that. If not, don't go looking for trouble. Marriage should be about trust, not a police state. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I agree with that statement in that senario. .... but I had to find out that she was cheating to end it. I can almost see that, actually, but I don't need 'proof' of 'wrongdoing' myself. If I'm happy with the relationship, then I'm happy, if not, it has to be fixed or abandoned. I'm not here to make someone else toe the line. If you need proof of wrong to feel OK about moving on then I guess that's just you. The other cases, where it helps materially after the relationship is abandoned, as part of the fight, I can be down with but that's not what the OP was about. That discussion is a different thread altogether. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 My marriage has been successfully recovered for five years. So you just decided out of the blue to start investigating your mate? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I cannot fathom what Civ is saying. If it is that borke , no need to fix it. But, you are supposed to just know it is that broke intuitively? This is simple. If your spouse is cheating, chances are you will not know. You wiull feel something is wrong, but will not know what. So, you snoop and take it from there. Some want to divorce. Some want to stay together. But, how the heck do you know what is going on without snooping? I think CLV is just enjoying getting a rise out of everyone when he posts his counters to snooping. He hasn't advocated anything or suggested anything that he's willing to stand behind. He's just attacking any possible reason for snooping as pointless. Link to post Share on other sites
Author DNU1 Posted June 16, 2009 Author Share Posted June 16, 2009 So you just decided out of the blue to start investigating your mate? Dr. Harley has been dealing with affairs and recovered marriages for 35 years. His philosophy is that there should be transperency in all marriages. 100% transperency! Meaning your spouse has access to all your e-mail, phone, texting, etc. And you have access to their stuff. No secrets at all. If there are no secrets then there is no spying. Those with nothing to hide, hide NOTHING! Check out his site at marriagebuilders.com. My STBx had secrets. she had her own e-mail account that I didn't have access to. She had her company phone. She was away from the house staying at apartment while she was "on-call" 4-5 nights a month. Secrets. She had poor boundaries. She is selfish and let her *feelings* rule her head. She didn't do what was right. She acted on her feelings. Affair discovered. Snooping began. Asked for complete transperency and openness and honesty. She kept secrets. She kept seeing another OM. I had that gut feeling...so I kept snooping. And I discovered another OM. Plan D. You can bet my next long-term-relationship will be based on complete and utter 100% transperency. Both ways. I have nothing to hide and I would expect that my mate have nothing to hide. That will be a boundary for me. If they cannot meet that boundary, then we will be done. I will not have secrets in any relationship EVER AGAIN! Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 I think CLV is just enjoying getting a rise out of everyone when he posts his counters to snooping. He hasn't advocated anything or suggested anything .... On the contrary, I asked you for a specific example of a way a marriage was impacted by cheating and you opted to end the discussion. The door is still open. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 On the contrary, I asked you for a specific example of a way a marriage was impacted by cheating and you opted to end the discussion. The door is still open. But the door to your mind is closed, so I've opted not to bother with an answer so you dissect it to the Nth degree with no other point in mind other than the fact that you don't see the point to snooping. You've also stated that if your relationship was not impacted by a mate's supposed cheating, you wouldn't bother with snooping. Obviously, you have something in mind of what you consider impacting your own relationship or you wouldn't have stated it. How about you put up something of substance or stop harrassing other posters for their real experiences? Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 My STBx had secrets. she had her own e-mail account that I didn't have access to. She had her company phone. She was away from the house staying at apartment while she was "on-call" 4-5 nights a month. Secrets. Those are deal breakers, why not merely insist on her fixing those behaviors? I have no problem with transparency, I believe strongly in it, but spying is not the same as transparency, indeed spying is a lame way to counter a lack of transparency. Link to post Share on other sites
Nightmare Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Those are deal breakers, why not merely insist on her fixing those behaviors? I have no problem with transparency, I believe strongly in it, but spying is not the same as transparency, indeed spying is a lame way to counter a lack of transparency. The gut feeling I had was from how she was acting as far as the cell phone, working out all the time, staying out later, ect ( all signals of cheating). So by your logic , I should have asked her to simply stop doing these things? There is nothing wrong with any of those things in a marriage, but she wasnt acting normal like herself. Had I asked her to simply stop acting that way and doing those things, all it would have done was drive the affair into deeper secrecy. I asked for transparency from her, she would show me anything (after she deleted any evidence). Transparency is key, I agree, but you shouldnt have to ask for it. A marriage should have so much transparency that even the thought of snooping would seem absurd. So If thats what you are saying I understand that and agree. But what is one to do when ones marriage is nolonger transparent and your spouse is secrative????? Answer is......... SNOOP!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 The gut feeling I had was from how she was acting as far as the cell phone, working out all the time, staying out later, ect ( all signals of cheating). So by your logic , I should have asked her to simply stop doing these things? Tell her you need to do more together as a couple and insist on real transparency. It's not rocket science. Link to post Share on other sites
Nightmare Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Tell her you need to do more together as a couple and insist on real transparency. It's not rocket science. AFTER SHES ALREADY HAVING AN AFFAIR??????? Too late. I could understand your point of view if infidelity were so black and white, but its not. The signs I saw occured during the affair, not prior. Thats what you dont get. Yes if they were there prior to any cheating I could agree with your statement. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 AFTER SHES ALREADY HAVING AN AFFAIR??????? Yup. Why not? Link to post Share on other sites
Nightmare Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Yup. Why not? Its too late. Im done with this issue with you. That was not even a reasonable response. Link to post Share on other sites
Author DNU1 Posted June 17, 2009 Author Share Posted June 17, 2009 Its too late. Im done with this issue with you. That was not even a reasonable response. You have to do what you have to do. I've been in Plan D for over a month. On another board just last weekend a few peeps were in banging on me to give her just one more chance...she's going to turn it around...give God a chance...giver your family a chance...forgive... Ah, Hmmmmm....let me think about this for a minute. Three DDays, FOUR OMs, repeated lies, repeated lies...did I mention she's lied to me like, a ton. And only after a month of divorce does she pick up the books and start reading about affiars, how to end them, how to recover. Where was that person six months ago? Oh, I remember...having another affair with another man I didn't know about at the time. Ug. Don't worry Nightmare. I got your back. Some just don't understand...that's okay. Agree to disagree. Move forward...D. Link to post Share on other sites
Nightmare Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 You have to do what you have to do. I've been in Plan D for over a month. On another board just last weekend a few peeps were in banging on me to give her just one more chance...she's going to turn it around...give God a chance...giver your family a chance...forgive... Ah, Hmmmmm....let me think about this for a minute. Three DDays, FOUR OMs, repeated lies, repeated lies...did I mention she's lied to me like, a ton. And only after a month of divorce does she pick up the books and start reading about affiars, how to end them, how to recover. Where was that person six months ago? Oh, I remember...having another affair with another man I didn't know about at the time. Ug. Don't worry Nightmare. I got your back. Some just don't understand...that's okay. Agree to disagree. Move forward...D. I am a strong believer in " for better or worse". But there comes a time when all is lost and you have to end it for your sanity, its all her fault. I gave a 100% trying to save my marriage in the beginning, she gave 20%, the other 80% was spent with her telling lies to continue the affair. Im still not Divorced yet because she is constantly stalling. Yet her boyfriend still staying with her. Problem now is the kids,doing whats fair for them. As far as giving God a chance????? I am starting to believe there is no God. How can things go this far otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Tell her you need to do more together as a couple and insist on real transparency. It's not rocket science. This would never work with a cheater. Ask Robert Goddard. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 This would never work with a cheater.. If she refuses you can kick her to the curb. What's the issue? Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 By the way, if your spying happens to involve recovering passwords to other systems, such as commercially owned servers, and those passwords are used to gain access to said servers, you are likely liable for criminal and civil prosecution. For instance, hacking into gmail or a yahoo account. Fun times. Link to post Share on other sites
jasminetea Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 If she refuses you can kick her to the curb. What's the issue? How would you know if the cheater is being transparent or not? Link to post Share on other sites
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