Snooping 101

[DNU1]

I've said it once, i will say it again...and again...and again.

 

Waywards lie. They are not in their right mind and are kind of like drug addicts. They will stop at nothing to get their fix / OP. They will lie, cheat and steal. And they will take their contact with OP deeper underground when discovered.

 

It's like aliens stole your WS and replaced them with another alien. They (WS) will do crazy things...and keep going back to the crack pipe.

 

If you are in Plan D, like me, no need to snoop. I don't give a rats tail what she does, who she screws, who she talks to now. But back when I was trying my hardest to recover the marriage, I did everything I could to make things work. AND, this is an important and, I snooped to verify that she didn't have contact with the OP.

 

That was essential to our recovery...my verifying her whereabouts. And it paid off, because through my snooping I discovered ANOTHER OM!

 

If I had not snooped, this woman would have lied to me and gaslighted me until the day I died! I would have been under her thumb and her under the influence of the crackpipe/OM until the day I died!

 

It's as simple as that.

 

If you choose not to verify your WS whereabouts, then that's your business. But be prepared for lies, deceipt, cheating and more lies...

 

Pathetic...nope, just smart. Everyone I've told about my "verifying" / snooping thinks it's possibly the smartest thing I ever did in my marriage.

 

And for the record, I believed she was my soul mate. I loved her with all my heart. For 18 years! She's the mother of my children and I wanted to die in her arms. Now I just want to be done with her and away from her...because she is a lying monster who cannot control her emotions and feelings, and does not take her wedding vows seriously. Nuff said...

[Juniper22]

I've said it once, i will say it again...and again...and again.

 

Waywards lie. They are not in their right mind and are kind of like drug addicts. They will stop at nothing to get their fix / OP. They will lie, cheat and steal. And they will take their contact with OP deeper underground when discovered.

 

It's like aliens stole your WS and replaced them with another alien. They (WS) will do crazy things...and keep going back to the crack pipe.

 

If you are in Plan D, like me, no need to snoop. I don't give a rats tail what she does, who she screws, who she talks to now. But back when I was trying my hardest to recover the marriage, I did everything I could to make things work. AND, this is an important and, I snooped to verify that she didn't have contact with the OP.

 

That was essential to our recovery...my verifying her whereabouts. And it paid off, because through my snooping I discovered ANOTHER OM!

 

If I had not snooped, this woman would have lied to me and gaslighted me until the day I died! I would have been under her thumb and her under the influence of the crackpipe/OM until the day I died!

 

It's as simple as that.

 

If you choose not to verify your WS whereabouts, then that's your business. But be prepared for lies, deceipt, cheating and more lies...

 

Pathetic...nope, just smart. Everyone I've told about my "verifying" / snooping thinks it's possibly the smartest thing I ever did in my marriage.

 

And for the record, I believed she was my soul mate. I loved her with all my heart. For 18 years! She's the mother of my children and I wanted to die in her arms. Now I just want to be done with her and away from her...because she is a lying monster who cannot control her emotions and feelings, and does not take her wedding vows seriously. Nuff said...

 

 

Great post! I'm sorry all that happened though.

[DNU1]

Found this today! It's a keylogger that installs between your computer and the keyboard cable. No need to install software on the computer.

 

Juniper, I'm PMing you this information. Should help...

 

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/computer-hardware-keylogger.html

[clv0116]

I.... back when I was trying my hardest to recover the marriage, I did everything I could to make things work. AND, this is an important and, I snooped to verify that she didn't have contact with the OP.

 

Hate to sound harsh again but I hope everyone is clear on how that effort is working out for you.

[DNU1]

Hate to sound harsh again but I hope everyone is clear on how that effort is working out for you.

 

Reality IS harsh. I do hope everyone is clear how that effort worked out for me...it didn't!

 

I was dealing with a serial cheater / liar. And I will say it again...if I did not snoop, I would still be living a lie. I would still be busting my tail, giving my marriage 110% and getting relatively nothing in return.

 

I am FREE!

[z1850]

Sounds like plan D is the best option. Adulteresses are selfish, character-flawed people. If you think back, you probably could see signs of this character flaw when you first met her. Once she crosses the line and has intercourse with another man, something changes irreversibly, and she'll never be the same again. The Bible implies that women like this become harlots.

 

Yes, surveillance is essential in uncovering the truth: keyloggers (I like Spector Pro), semen detection kits (InSite is the best) and GPS tracking (SkyTrx is inexpensive, but gets the job done) are all useful. But there comes a time--especially after repeat adultery--when you just have to leave, and take your integrity and your honor with you. The limiting factor in your case may be finances.

[Reggie]

So maybe it is about trying to make them change after all.

I did not mean recovery in the sense of reconciling, necessarily. Man.y BSs make the best recovery by divorcing. In a lot of ways, it is an easier recovery.

[Reggie]

Hate to sound harsh again but I hope everyone is clear on how that effort is working out for you.

Sounds like it worked out fine. The key is that he will no longer be married, Hence, she cannot cheat on him anymore. I'd say it worked out fine.

[Owl]

Exactly right, Reggie. It worked out great for DNU1. It gave him the information he needed to make the choices that he had to in order for his own personal recovery to start.

 

It worked out great for me...it gave me the information I needed to prevent further denial about the affair and address it directly in our marriage...and we're well recovered.

 

As a matter of fact...I can't EVER recall seeing a story where doing this actually was the direct cause of any long term negative issue. Sure...people who are currently cheating will be angry about being caught...they'll play the "controlling" card and everything else...but I can't think of a single instance where "snooping" to determine an affair was the direct cause of the end of the relationship.

 

I think that perhaps some people may have had a bitter experience being on the receiving end of this tactic, and since are still angry about being caught?

[schewter]

I agree Owl...back when things were just getting going with W and OM and I was just coming around to caring there were a couple of little things that sent up red flags but I was so into fixing myself and proving my love that I accepted my W's explanations, i.e...an evening chat on Facebook with OM that she tried to delete the evidence of...my wife never chatted on FB in her life and when I checked out this guys profile he had about 2 friends...looking back it was obvious that he had set up a FB account for the sole purpose of being in contact with my wife. Had I been clear headed I would have called his home and spoken to his wife something like "hi, you don't know me and I may be crazy but..." I know now his wife would have said "you're not crazy and oddly enough, we are planning on coming to your city at the end of the week and he's very anxious to get there by such and such a time, says he has a lunch date"...I think things would have been nipped in the bud once the wife knew that he was indeed still in a committed relationship as far as his wife knew anyway...

[clv0116]

Found this today! It's a keylogger that installs between your computer and the keyboard cable. No need to install software on the computer.

 

Juniper, I'm PMing you this information. Should help...

 

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/computer-hardware-keylogger.html

 

A good keylogger will do a lot more than log keystrokes. Without software running on the host you're gonna get a huge quantity of keystrokes with no idea where they were directed, 1/2 of what looks like an IM conversation but what could be a book someone is writing, etc.

 

A real decent key logger will record which window (title, class sometimes) the text was directed into and will even shoot screenshots on certain system events like opening a new window etc.

[Owl]

A good keylogger will do a lot more than log keystrokes. Without software running on the host you're gonna get a huge quantity of keystrokes with no idea where they were directed, 1/2 of what looks like an IM conversation but what could be a book someone is writing, etc.

 

A real decent key logger will record which window (title, class sometimes) the text was directed into and will even shoot screenshots on certain system events like opening a new window etc.

 

Agreed...the only advantage to the hardware keylogger mentioned here is if you have a computer saavy spouse who may well be looking for keyloggers installed on their computer.

 

My wife's OM had her install and run two different anti-spyware programs specifically to try to help them avoid being caught. Too bad for him it didn't work, ya know?

[HisSweetThing]

As a matter of fact...I can't EVER recall seeing a story where doing this actually was the direct cause of any long term negative issue. Sure...people who are currently cheating will be angry about being caught...they'll play the "controlling" card and everything else...but I can't think of a single instance where "snooping" to determine an affair was the direct cause of the end of the relationship.

 

Owl,

 

I think you know my story. I found this thread very interesting. My husband rigged up a hidden camera 15 years ago - in our bathroom. His goal wasn't to catch me doing anything wrong. I wasn't comfortable with myself or my body at this age. We had sex with little to no light. His goal was to see me completely naked in good light. I discovered the camera, by accident. I have never trusted him since. I walk around my house to this day and wonder how many cameras are hidden in how many places. I always feel spied on. Our marriage has one fundamental issue that has been there from day one, but I think this was the beginning to the end. I truly believe that this was the catalyst to everything that has been wrong since then. Looking back, I wish I would have left him then.

 

So, my point is, if you spy on your spouse and find out that they aren't doing anything wrong and you are caught spying on them - this could be a very bad thing.

[clv0116]

Agreed...the only advantage to the hardware keylogger mentioned here is if you have a computer saavy spouse who may well be looking for keyloggers installed on their computer.

 

My wife's OM had her install and run two different anti-spyware programs specifically to try to help them avoid being caught. Too bad for him it didn't work, ya know?

 

Rootkits will prevent detection unless the scanning software has anti-rootkit capabilities.

[Owl]

Here's the primary difference, HST.

 

INTENT.

 

You did nothing to cause your H to suspect anything...his sole and only intent was to violate your privacy.

 

His goal wasn't to save his marriage, it wasn't to learn the truth...it was voyeurism.

 

That is a LONG cry from what we're talking about here. A HUGELY different thing from checking your spouse's emails because you suspect that they're cheating on you.

[clv0116]

A HUGELY different thing from checking your spouse's emails because you suspect that they're cheating on you.

 

No it's not. If I found my GF spying on me she'd be my ex-GF so fast her head would spin.

[HisSweetThing]

Here's the primary difference, HST.

 

INTENT.

 

You did nothing to cause your H to suspect anything...his sole and only intent was to violate your privacy.

 

His goal wasn't to save his marriage, it wasn't to learn the truth...it was voyeurism.

 

That is a LONG cry from what we're talking about here. A HUGELY different thing from checking your spouse's emails because you suspect that they're cheating on you.

 

I understand what you're saying, but I think I would feel extremely violated no matter what the intent.

[Nightmare]

I dont agree with anyone who says its violating privacy, if its your husband/ wife you have a right to know. I think if your looking for the best way to confirm theyre cheating , you obviously have that gut feeling they are. That was my case, started with a gut feeling and I questioned her on everything, she lied and lied some more. A $25 voice activated recorder under her car seat confirmed everything. Then she admitted that everything I had questioned and thought, was really going on.

[DNU1]

I dont agree with anyone who says its violating privacy, if its your husband/ wife you have a right to know. I think if your looking for the best way to confirm theyre cheating , you obviously have that gut feeling they are. That was my case, started with a gut feeling and I questioned her on everything, she lied and lied some more. A $25 voice activated recorder under her car seat confirmed everything. Then she admitted that everything I had questioned and thought, was really going on.

 

Agree completely!

 

Betrayed spouses are not violating privacy...they are fighting a war against adultry! BSs are trying to protect their marriage by exposing the affair and hopefully ending it.

 

When your WW accuses you of "spying" on them, they are just gaslighting you in to feeling guilty...so they can continue the affair.

 

This is not war against your spouse, this is global-thermal-nuclear war against an AFFAIR!

 

Repeat, I would have lived the REST OF MY LIFE in a lie had I not snooped my STBxWW! To this day she continues to lie to me, to see the OM every day (even though she claims it's "over").

 

I am so glad I'm free from her destructive, serial cheating, serial lying ways. And I would have never gotten that freedom had I not snooped.

[Owl]

No it's not. If I found my GF spying on me she'd be my ex-GF so fast her head would spin.

 

Again...I'm not talking boyfriend/girlfriend. Although some consider that a long-term committed relationship, I don't entirely agree.

 

If I suspected a girlfriend of cheating...I'd end the relationship.

 

A "gf/bf" relationship is the trial run for marriage. If things are bad enough in that relationship that I would seriously suspect them of cheating...we'd be through...no need to cheat.

 

Done.

 

What we're talking about is a marriage where one partner has reason to believe that their spouse is cheating.

 

Different story.

 

From all that I've seen, many WS's often complain about the "snooping". But the vast majority of the time, people don't resort to this tactic until they've got some pretty strong suspiscions to begin with.

 

I've seen few situations come through here where someone posted their situation, was encouraged to snoop, and they found nothing. By the time they come here, by the time they finally decide to snoop...they nearly always find something.

 

And LET the WS feel "violated". All that is just gaslighting...an attempt to shift the light off the REAL issue...the cheating...which they were fighting to keep hidden anyway.

 

Typically if the couple does make it to reconciliation...the snooping is such a minor issue by that time it's NOTHING to deal with compared to working through the damage done by the cheating in the first place. And if the couple DOESN'T recover...who cares what the WS thinks?

 

And again...I've seen darned few situations come through here where someone posted a "I think my spouse is cheating", described the situation, and then was encouraged to snoop....darned few of those turn out to be nothing, and the marriage ends because the partner snooped.

 

The snooping comes when you have a real problem in the marriage to address, and one person is clearly lying/hiding the reasons for it.

 

Sticking a camera in the bathroom because you want to see your gf/wife nekkid in there is NOT what we're talking about.

[clv0116]

What we're talking about is a marriage where one partner has reason to believe that their spouse is cheating.

 

Different story.

 

Not for me. Divorce just takes longer, but if I'm not trusted then its adios, and I hope you find someone you can trust. I don't keep things secret that I don't have to, but there are some things I have to keep secret and I can't have someone I trust snooping around because they don't trust me.

[Reggie]

Yes, but if one is finding all types of signs, like lying about whereabouts, unexplained expenditures, verbal and emotional abuse, coldness, lack of interest in intimacy, the gut starts screaming to check it out. If this si one's first time dealing with this, it is difficult to recognize these signs as infidelity. The lack of knowledge and the self preservation denial mechanisms drive one to investigate for alternative explanations.

Now, having researched this stuff. I would spot the signs as clear indicatins of cheating. But, back when this all started, I could not, for the life of me , figure it out. So, the snooping led to the truth, which is what we all deserve.

[GorillaTheater]

$0.02 from someone who thankfully has had to never had to deal with this type of situation: if I ever have to make the decision of whether or not to end a marriage, I'm going to want to take into consideration every fact I can lay my hands on (just like any other major decision). If that means snooping to get those facts, so be it.

 

But thus far, I've never felt the need to snoop.

[Owl]

Not for me. Divorce just takes longer, but if I'm not trusted then its adios, and I hope you find someone you can trust. I don't keep things secret that I don't have to, but there are some things I have to keep secret and I can't have someone I trust snooping around because they don't trust me.

 

I'm curious...what kinds of things do you "have to keep secret" from your wife?

 

I can't think of anything offhand that I "have to keep secret" from my wife. I make it clear to any of my friends who would confide something with me that I will absolutely share it with my wife...so their choice to share something with me is going to be done under this assumption.

 

But, if you absolutely know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you would file for divorce the moment you SUSPECTED (not proved, but SUSPECTED) that your wife could be cheating on you...then snooping does you no good. Of course, if you're willing to divorce solely on suspecting it without proof...I'd bet that she'd be equally as happy to end the marriage too...no one likes to be assumed guilty and never given a chance to prove their innocence.

[Reggie]

No it's not. If I found my GF spying on me she'd be my ex-GF so fast her head would spin.

 

That is probably a good thing.