Apart and shaken

[lupa]

You people all rock, you really do. I wish I could have found this place and understood it before any of this happened. I don't think I would have gotten it, though, because I wasn't ready.

 

They're called the "secrets of life" because you can scream them at the top of your lungs and some people just never hear.

 

...I don't where I heard that or if I just made it up, but it kinda makes sense to me now. Maybe the language needs to be refined, but I think I am starting to hear.

[LisaUk]

You people all rock, you really do. I wish I could have found this place and understood it before any of this happened. I don't think I would have gotten it, though, because I wasn't ready.

 

Me too! Wish I had found this place BEFORE he left, but now he's gone, you are all a great help.

[Gunny376]

Outstanding ~ Simply outstanding job lupa in the telephone conversation!! :bunny: (Bunnies = "Atta' Boy's")

 

"For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction" So when she comes off argumentative "Be Nice" (Just like in the movie "Roadhouse" AND even if your just talking on the phone SMILE! But most definitely face-to-face!

 

A really good line to use in any conversation? "I understand" and then just shut up. The more you use silence, smiles, and "I understand" the more she'll open up. (Its a sales technique I learned when I was in sales.)

 

She sounds scared, lost, dazed and confused about it all. She not thinking rationally but emotionally, and her main emotion right now is anger? Which is a "secondary" emotion (that is to say that a primary emotion is driving it ~ such as her being hurt by you in ways you as a man you may not fully comprehend and understand.)

 

You like I, thought that being supportive, "fixing" things, (and not just the bathroom plumbing leaks ) and being a good provide was our role(s) in the marriage. Its not! Not for your wife, nor any woman.

 

Women tend to oftentimes work off an "emotional" state of mind, while men tend to work off a more rational/logical frame of mind, (not to say women cannot be rational and logical)

 

NC works because its you giving her the "gift of missing you" and she can't do that if your always contacting her and in her face. Plus as I said she "angry" with you right now, and every time you contact her? Its like waving a red flag in front of a bull. So I don't know going by and getting 'face to face' with her is such a good idea? Maybe a call? The exception might be if you've already told her you would. (If don't follow through, it becomes a "trust" issue? And one more nail in your coffin?

 

What you did in the phone conversation is called "mental kino" and what you did more a moment was to cause doubt and attraction.

 

To find out more? Read Neil Strauss' "The Game" and I might perhaps the following e-books:

 

"The Art of Attraction", "The Dating Blackbook", and Secrets of the AlphaMale"

 

 

Now these are all PUA books, (PUA = Pickup Artist Books), but they tell you what works with attracting and pickup women, and unless I'm mistaken? The woman your trying to attract? Is your DW.

 

The e-books aren't cheap, and your going to have to work through them more than once to master them, (Average human retention = 20%)

 

Carlos Xuma the author of the last two e-books gives a lot of information on how to handle arguments and women's 'bitch tests" And if your with a woman? Your going to be tested! A lot of time even they aren't aware they're doing it.

 

If you decide to read them? Read "The Game" first. It will give you a frame of reference for the rest. Its written by a guy who writes for Rolling Stone magazine and the New York Times that assigned him to learn and write a story about guys who had become PUA in CA.

 

Previously? These guys couldn't get laid with a $1000 on a train full of prostitutes. Many were still virgins in their mid-twenties, but became adapt at walking in anywhere, anytime and picking up women.

 

Its very informative about why women leave men, cheat on men for some loser, or of lesser economic/social status. Its also very informative about the social dynamics between men and women.

 

Once I read them? I understood where and all the more importantly ~ why I failed with some women and stumbling and fumbling succeeded with others? (Hint? I didn't care about them to begin with to include the daughter of multi-millionaire)

 

Again good job of gaining control of your emotions and yourself! OUTSTANDING IN FACT!

 

Try and get a minimum of one hour exercise a day! You need to shoot for a minimum of one hour a day, 5X's a week, stick with it for three to six months and you won't want to quit! I promise you! Just start out slow, and build from there.

 

The biggest argument of my marriage, I told the XHEX, "Screw this! I'm going for my run! I ran three miles one day, six the next, alternating even-odd days.

 

That day? I ran ten miles and was totally spent! But all of the negative emotions were gone as well. The anger, the hurt, the pain,.............it was just all gone? And I felt good about myself, my life! (endorphins seriously kicked in the old brain housing group! This was in Okinawa Japan when it was in the 90's and the humidity was in the 80's! I was soaking wet with sweat!

 

At any rate? If the current and present marriage goes South? You're going to be a better man for the experience. Your well on the way, and have turned the curve my Man!

 

I'm proud of you my Man!

 

Damn proud!

 

Just as proud as I was of every one my recruits that walked off the Pararde Fill when they graduated from Parris Island!

 

You did good!

 

Your learning!

 

Your growng!

 

If your wife does drive through the "Big 'D" ~ all she's done is make one Hell of a Good Man and Good Husband for some other woman!

[Gunny376]

BTW?

 

Now that you've expounded upon the wife being laid off, etc?

 

She needed someone to talk to ~ just talk it out with.

 

Not fix it, not give solutions to, give advice to.

 

Just to vent to!

 

And for whatever reason? She felt that she couldn't do that with you. That cause resentment, which caused frustration, which caused anger!

 

And she was already frustrated, and angry.

 

Guess who's the blunt of all that?

 

YOU!

 

Women are emotional beings ~ they just are! Not a bad thing, its just there nature.

 

She was already reeling from the job loss, and a lot of your current problem is?

 

Emotion piled upon emotion piled upon emotion piled upon emotion ~ and Tha' List!

 

The "List?"

 

Women never forget any and all hurts, disappointments, let-downs that you ever caused them.

 

When you get married? You get a bag. Some bags are bigger than others, some are smaller.

 

When you do or say something hurtful to a woman? It goes into the bag. When you let them down or disappoint them? It goes into the bag!

 

When the bag is full? They're done!

 

Stick a fork in it, you're done?

 

Trouble is?

 

Men don't know they have a "bag!"

 

Until one day while walking through the mall, something reminds them of something that happen twenty years ago, and they go "ape" on you right there in the middle of the food court!

 

What is really bad? Other women will jump you as well! "YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THAT FROM SOME MAN!"

 

While their own husbands will fade into the background or go and hide in the bookstore?

 

"Hey Bro! Your own your own! Go for yourself! I've got to sleep with that woman!"

[Gunny376]

I remeber it like yesterday!

 

Sitting in the turn lane on Lejeune Blvd. Jacksonville, NC

 

Looked over and some Marine's wife/GF just giving him Hell, wagging her finger at him! Could clearly see her mouthing the words, "And Another thing!"

 

I looked at him, he looked at me?

 

And he 'mouthed the words'

 

"Just freaking kill me! I would do it for you!

 

Just put me out of misery! ":p

[LisaUk]

Gunny, you are right, us women do have a bag. We put past hurts and resentments in that bag, it doesn't mean we haven't forgiven them, it just means if you do something similar, we recall them! To a man, that probably sounds like a contradiction, I know!

 

Do you have any advice for me, can I get my commit phobe ex back? Could I get him to commit? Or am I right in thniking he has to find this out for himself, go NC, hope a bit, but don't bank on him figuring it on and get on with my life?

[tojaz]

You can't make anyone do anything sweetie. All you can do is be yourself and hope he likes what the sees. If hes too blind to see what he's lost then he deserves all he gets. Even if you could "make" him, is that really how you want your relationship to be?

Tojaz

[LisaUk]

You can't make anyone do anything sweetie. All you can do is be yourself and hope he likes what the sees. If hes too blind to see what he's lost then he deserves all he gets. Even if you could "make" him, is that really how you want your relationship to be?

Tojaz

 

The way I wrote that probably read wrong! I don't mean make him, I mean is there anything else I can do to help the situation, other than improving myself and NC, that I haven't already or am I right in going NC? I know I can't make him.

[tojaz]

I wouldn't do anything, if he's afraid of commitment then anything you do to pursue him will just reenforce what he is already feeling. Just get out and have a good time. If he has a brain in his head, he'll come looking for you when his fear fades. By then though, you might not want him back.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

I wouldn't do anything, if he's afraid of commitment then anything you do to pursue him will just reenforce what he is already feeling. Just get out and have a good time. If he has a brain in his head, he'll come looking for you when his fear fades. By then though, you might not want him back.

TOJAZ

 

I am starting to figure this is what has happened (commitment issues), just too much of a coincidence, the timing, the 8 year engaement, his long working hours, his childhood, his parents etc etc. I wish I knew for sure, would bring some closure to it. You're right though (as always, don't care what your misses says!)

[tojaz]

I am starting to figure this is what has happened (commitment issues), just too much of a coincidence, the timing, the 8 year engaement, his long working hours, his childhood, his parents etc etc. I wish I knew for sure, would bring some closure to it. You're right though (as always, don't care what your misses says!)

 

Thats nice of you t say;) Next time your out, pick up a copy of UNCOUPLING by Diane Vaughan it explains a lot about timing and what he was thinking leading up to this. It might give you some understang and the closure your looking for.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Thats nice of you t say;) Next time your out, pick up a copy of UNCOUPLING by Diane Vaughan it explains a lot about timing and what he was thinking leading up to this. It might give you some understang and the closure your looking for.

TOJAZ

 

Thanks, will do!

[WTFO]

Outstanding ~ Simply outstanding job lupa in the telephone conversation!! :bunny: (Bunnies = "Atta' Boy's")

 

"For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction" So when she comes off argumentative "Be Nice" (Just like in the movie "Roadhouse" AND even if your just talking on the phone SMILE! But most definitely face-to-face!

 

A really good line to use in any conversation? "I understand" and then just shut up. The more you use silence, smiles, and "I understand" the more she'll open up. (Its a sales technique I learned when I was in sales.)

 

She sounds scared, lost, dazed and confused about it all. She not thinking rationally but emotionally, and her main emotion right now is anger? Which is a "secondary" emotion (that is to say that a primary emotion is driving it ~ such as her being hurt by you in ways you as a man you may not fully comprehend and understand.)

 

You like I, thought that being supportive, "fixing" things, (and not just the bathroom plumbing leaks ) and being a good provide was our role(s) in the marriage. Its not! Not for your wife, nor any woman.

 

Women tend to oftentimes work off an "emotional" state of mind, while men tend to work off a more rational/logical frame of mind, (not to say women cannot be rational and logical)

 

NC works because its you giving her the "gift of missing you" and she can't do that if your always contacting her and in her face. Plus as I said she "angry" with you right now, and every time you contact her? Its like waving a red flag in front of a bull. So I don't know going by and getting 'face to face' with her is such a good idea? Maybe a call? The exception might be if you've already told her you would. (If don't follow through, it becomes a "trust" issue? And one more nail in your coffin?

 

What you did in the phone conversation is called "mental kino" and what you did more a moment was to cause doubt and attraction.

 

To find out more? Read Neil Strauss' "The Game" and I might perhaps the following e-books:

 

"The Art of Attraction", "The Dating Blackbook", and Secrets of the AlphaMale"

 

 

Now these are all PUA books, (PUA = Pickup Artist Books), but they tell you what works with attracting and pickup women, and unless I'm mistaken? The woman your trying to attract? Is your DW.

 

The e-books aren't cheap, and your going to have to work through them more than once to master them, (Average human retention = 20%)

 

Carlos Xuma the author of the last two e-books gives a lot of information on how to handle arguments and women's 'bitch tests" And if your with a woman? Your going to be tested! A lot of time even they aren't aware they're doing it.

 

If you decide to read them? Read "The Game" first. It will give you a frame of reference for the rest. Its written by a guy who writes for Rolling Stone magazine and the New York Times that assigned him to learn and write a story about guys who had become PUA in CA.

 

Previously? These guys couldn't get laid with a $1000 on a train full of prostitutes. Many were still virgins in their mid-twenties, but became adapt at walking in anywhere, anytime and picking up women.

 

Its very informative about why women leave men, cheat on men for some loser, or of lesser economic/social status. Its also very informative about the social dynamics between men and women.

 

Once I read them? I understood where and all the more importantly ~ why I failed with some women and stumbling and fumbling succeeded with others? (Hint? I didn't care about them to begin with to include the daughter of multi-millionaire)

 

Again good job of gaining control of your emotions and yourself! OUTSTANDING IN FACT!

 

Try and get a minimum of one hour exercise a day! You need to shoot for a minimum of one hour a day, 5X's a week, stick with it for three to six months and you won't want to quit! I promise you! Just start out slow, and build from there.

 

The biggest argument of my marriage, I told the XHEX, "Screw this! I'm going for my run! I ran three miles one day, six the next, alternating even-odd days.

 

That day? I ran ten miles and was totally spent! But all of the negative emotions were gone as well. The anger, the hurt, the pain,.............it was just all gone? And I felt good about myself, my life! (endorphins seriously kicked in the old brain housing group! This was in Okinawa Japan when it was in the 90's and the humidity was in the 80's! I was soaking wet with sweat!

 

At any rate? If the current and present marriage goes South? You're going to be a better man for the experience. Your well on the way, and have turned the curve my Man!

 

I'm proud of you my Man!

 

Damn proud!

 

Just as proud as I was of every one my recruits that walked off the Pararde Fill when they graduated from Parris Island!

 

You did good!

 

Your learning!

 

Your growng!

 

If your wife does drive through the "Big 'D" ~ all she's done is make one Hell of a Good Man and Good Husband for some other woman!

 

Gunny,

 

No Sheet, You need to write a book brotha. As usual. great advice.

[lupa]

Updates coming fast and furious now!!! (Gunns, thanks again...I knew you were right all along, but it isn't easy to get rolling at first) --

 

 

Last night at the movie the Hangover (watch it...hilarious), I got a vmail from her. I was literally freaking out in the theater, wanting to listen to the message, and my buddy was about to punch me in the head because I had my phone (on silent of course, but I had it out). Anyway, movie ends, I go out into the lobby, and it was just background noise...I got butt-dialed. I was freaking out because of an accidental phone call.

 

Then I get a text message:

 

her 8:30 pm "Think I just butt-dialed you. Sorry about that."

 

no response

 

her 11:26 pm: "Are you out?"

 

me 11:34 pm: "Bunch of folks out at [bar] for Sarah's birthday."

 

her 11:35: Thought you weren't going to do that?

 

me 11:40: [buddy] insisted we go...

 

her 11:41: Yeah.

 

her 11:44: That's good.

 

her 12:04: Monday evening.

 

This one was in response to me wanting to get together face-to-face as i mentioned on the phone call the other night. Interesting time to bring it up, no?

 

me 12:11: Ok.

 

her 12:12: Ok.

 

 

 

I haven't interacted with her since. I really think this is her "missing" or at least showing some interest. I'd be willing to bet she worked herself back into some kind of anger or something for me today, though, just to maintain her sense of self, or her comfort zone, know what I mean?

 

 

So now we have to plan for the face to face meeting on monday. I'll take suggestions on location, how to let her know where (phone, text, carrier pigeon), how long I should stay...how much I should share.

 

Keep in mind I'll be honest with her about hwat I've learned, won't insist that I've "changed" but I will reiterate that I now can see things I never did before, and I want to keep growing and getting better. I will also be very understanding, and maybe she'll open up some more.

 

I'm steeling myself for her to try to push my buttons, though, too.

 

 

Also, I don't know if I wrote this or not, but her good friend called me at work yesterday ( we talked for 45 minutes) , and I explained everything to her like I told my wife on the phone. I didn't know what I was missing...the signs that I was hurting her, that kind of stuff. She asked me "why the sudden epiphany." I told her it was because I had never been here, had never seen this from the other side, so I'm trying to get better for it.

 

She told me "I wish you could get together once with 'the girls' and tell us your version."

 

I took that as a good sign that she believes me in this, and may actually try to help get my wife out of this fog.

 

We'll see.

 

Keep the faith, people.

[tojaz]

I haven't interacted with her since. I really think this is her "missing" or at least showing some interest. I'd be willing to bet she worked herself back into some kind of anger or something for me today, though, just to maintain her sense of self, or her comfort zone, know what I mean?

Count on it!!!

 

So now we have to plan for the face to face meeting on monday. I'll take suggestions on location, how to let her know where (phone, text, carrier pigeon), how long I should stay...how much I should share.

 

Keep in mind I'll be honest with her about hwat I've learned, won't insist that I've "changed" but I will reiterate that I now can see things I never did before, and I want to keep growing and getting better. I will also be very understanding, and maybe she'll open up some more.

Don't give her the whole story on what youve learned. Give her one or two morsels then give her time to digest. Spread it out over time so it isn't like your reciting a relationship book to her. Also keep in mind that actions speak louder then words. Although it sounds like you get that. Also, keep an ear towards how shes feeling about the conversaton. If she seems uncomfortable or you see anger coming call it a day politely.

I'm steeling myself for her to try to push my buttons, though, too.

Count on it, just brush it off.

 

Also, I don't know if I wrote this or not, but her good friend called me at work yesterday ( we talked for 45 minutes) , and I explained everything to her like I told my wife on the phone. I didn't know what I was missing...the signs that I was hurting her, that kind of stuff. She asked me "why the sudden epiphany." I told her it was because I had never been here, had never seen this from the other side, so I'm trying to get better for it.

 

She told me "I wish you could get together once with 'the girls' and tell us your version."

DONT DO IT!!!

I took that as a good sign that she believes me in this, and may actually try to help get my wife out of this fog.

Talk to her alone if you truly trust her, but tread lightly, the chances of one of her good friends being an ally are very slim.

 

We'll see.

 

Keep the faith, people.

 

Good luck bud, sounds like things are looking up, but proceed with caution.

TOJAZ

[Pradajunkie]

The way I wrote that probably read wrong! I don't mean make him, I mean is there anything else I can do to help the situation, other than improving myself and NC, that I haven't already or am I right in going NC? I know I can't make him.

 

Actually Lisa there is something you can do, You keep yourself strong and beautiful, you have fun with friends and all the people who are special to you, you pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, and you keep putting one foot in front of the other don't look back, don't regret, don't over-analyze, some things in life NEVER have closure, search out things that make you happy and enjoy all the simple pleasures life has to offer. It's easy to say, harder to do but it will put you on the right path.

I wish you all the best,

PJ

[Gunny376]

but her good friend called me at work yesterday ( we talked for 45 minutes)

 

I wouldn't be so sure the DW had it her call, or at least get her to thinking about it. I definitely wouldn't be speaking with the 'girls". Her friends are not your friends!

 

You come across as an honest, forthcoming person who has a personal code you live by.

 

When it comes to anyone other than your personal inner circle, the 'best said, is the less said." Anyone other than your PIC, just say, "We've had problems and some issues we're trying to deal with.

 

This is important because what you say to someone else, may not be heard the way you meant to be understood, and even if was? Party A tells Party B, who tells Party D, and gets passed down the line until it gets to back to the DW, who hears 10% of the original message and your back in the dog house.

 

As far as the Monday meet, get in and get out. Meet somewhere public, (coffee?), that way if she's in one of her moods? She can't make too much of scene can she. I would keep. I would try and keep it to 30 to 45 minutes.

 

IMHO? I think your giving her too much information, and the reason I think that is because your over all objective is to reconcile, and to do that you've got to build up her attraction in you again, and to do that? You've got to build up her curiosity.

 

And again you've got to give her the "gift of missing you" and you can't do that if your in constant contact.

 

When she left? Even though your just separated, the minute she walked out the door, she basically gave up her rights to be in your business, hold you accountable for where you go, who you go with, and what you do. She also gave up her "bitching rights"

 

You want to come across as, "I've got a life, places to go, people to see, and things to do! With or without you? I've got life, and life goes on."

 

When you see her Monday, go in smiling, in a positive mood, and keep things a positive side. If she starts drifting, to the 'dark-side' just use phrases such as "I see, I understand, tell me more,"

 

Don't try and be a "Mr. Fixit!" She's a grown adult woman and fully capable of solving her own problems. The mark of a good conversationalist is someone who listen twice as much as they speak. That's why God gave up one mouth and two ears.

 

Remember that your average woman uses between 4 to 6 thousand words a day compared your average man who uses half that much. One of the thing you want to come across to her as (by showing not saying) is that your really listening to her.

 

A couple of books on the subject of cross-gender communication are "You Just Don't Understand", "GenderSpeak" and"BrainSex" (All three I highly recommend especially if your a man,)

 

Finally in closing, please, please tell me you didn't tell her GF, that you've been coming to LoveShack.org? :eek: :eek: but rather that you've been surfing the net?

 

And? You didn't say what the meet was about? You don't have to go into detail but is it to talk about the marriage or just exchange general information about your up-coming trip?

 

Either way? You must maintain and be in absolute control of your emotions. Whatever you do? Don't let her bait you! She may throw a couple of "bitch tests" to see if you have really changed?

 

Tomorrow you need to think about your marriage, and all of the arguments you've had. Shut off the radio, the tv, and think about any and all things that she has thrown at you in the past, and might throw at you on Monday.

 

You've got to be like a Pro Ball player and visualize the meet and interaction. You've got to think about the worse thing she could possibly say and throw at you, what buttons she could push to throw you off your game!

 

You've not only have to be mentally preprared? But emotionally prepared.

 

If she gets too spastic? You've got to be willing to AMP it up (AlphaMale Power) and be willing to not lose your temper, your composure and be willing to just walk away from her.

 

In other words? Your James Bond, John Wayne etc. Your in absolute control of yourself, your emotional state of mind, your life, and your world.

 

And that's really all any of us can be in control of.

 

Last but not least? Don't worry about the out come. 90% of what we worry about never comes about to begin with. Its the 10% that we never think about that comes back to bite us in the @zz!

[SickToStomach]

The letter I wrote to myself, I dumped the first page, it was more about my specific situation. Maybe it will help others:

 

I've read this about 25 times already. It does help...maybe it will help someone else out there who is hurting, too.

 

This note you wrote yourself probably just saved my life. I'm in a horrible situation right now and feel so helpless because my wife left. I had forgotten that I still have control over my own actions.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Why is her friend calling you, that I'm real sure of is surefire shady. they could be trying to record you or something females play games like that.

 

You need to watch your back!

 

Stay away from her and her friends!

[LisaUk]

Why is her friend calling you, that I'm real sure of is surefire shady. they could be trying to record you or something females play games like that.

 

You need to watch your back!

 

Stay away from her and her friends!

 

 

Believe it man!

[LisaUk]

I wouldn't be so sure the DW had it her call, or at least get her to thinking about it. I definitely wouldn't be speaking with the 'girls". Her friends are not your friends!

 

Believe Gunny, women can be devious when they want to be, some can be real b**ches, even to other women, not just men, actually espically to other women. In school, in the work place everywhere, there are many women who want to out do you, run you down, sisterhood menas nothing to some women. I digress, point is, DON'T TALK TO HER FRIENDS, they aren't your friends. Trust Gunny and crome on this one.

[lupa]

This note you wrote yourself probably just saved my life. I'm in a horrible situation right now and feel so helpless because my wife left. I had forgotten that I still have control over my own actions.

Sick -- understand one thing. You are not the first person to have this problem. Learn from these people...and know that the first little while is going to suck so freaking bad that you are not going to know what to do. Lean on friends and family, and don't be afraid to admit your weakness.

 

Then, listen to Gunny. Trust me when I tell you that his urging to "focus on yourself" is based out of experience and wisdom. Then, you'll start noticing that...everyone...here...is saying pretty much the same or similar thing.

 

Drink it all in.

 

 

As for me...there has been silence since the friday night exchange. I think she's probably pissed that I was so...I dunno...noncommittal or not excited during the text exchange. Oh well. She wants space, that is what we're doing. As for meeting monday...yeah...I'm going to try to not get too excited beforehand, and I'm cannot allow myself to get too emotionally wrapped up in anticipating the outcome. I do miss her, though.

 

Now...on to the topic of the "friends." Without explaining the whole story, all three of her closest friends have made overtures to me to "not give up." The problem is that nobody knew what to tell me to do, except "give space." That is where you guys have come in, and my buddy has pretty much smacked me in line all weekend. Anyway, her closest friend and I have been in touch periodically as this has gone on. Its not a question of if I trust her or not, it is more that I know she is not going to distort my words or anything for a bad reason. Hell, she started crying when we met one day because this brings back her divorce, and she feels terrible. Our situation is different, but she doesn't want to see us go through it because it crushed her, and she was the one who initiated it (lots of drugs on the other side).

I believe her when she tells me to not give up because there is something there, and she also says over and over that my wife is just so lost and confused that the other three girls don't even know her right now (not in a bad way, but just that she is so different...).

 

I'm so tempted to call the friend, or shoot a quick text that says, "meeting tomorrow night" to see if she already knows. I desperately want to know if they've talked, but my buddy says of course they have. I just...well, you people all know. Not having information is so hard, and patience is a skill I'm just learning now.

 

But regardless, I'm going to be Mr Cool Ice when we're together. Honest, forthcoming, but very "reserved." I want her to talk...or at least begin to open a little.

 

I'm a little...tense right now. T minus 24 hours.

 

...talk me up, Gunnz! Hoorah!

 

 

Should I ask her to the house, or to meet out at a restaurant or something?

[tojaz]

Your doing better then I am man, keep it up. Her friend, might be able to give you some insight into what your wife is up to. I just wouldn't let it look like thats what your after, and I wouldn't give anything in return. The less known the better.

TOJAZ

[LisaUk]

Good luck for tonight Lupa! Stay strong, keep cool. Post and let us know how it went?

[Gunny376]

Its important to recognize, that its impossible to lose something you never had?

 

Either she's gone or she's not, and neither you nor I can determine that? Only she can.

 

Does she have doubts? You bet. But whether she is or not is not determined upon this one meeting.

 

All you can do on any one given day is to be the best you that you can be, ~ flaws and all.

 

Who and what you are? Isn't determined by the opinion of another ~ but yourself.

 

When you truly look at yourself? You will find that there are certain aspects of yourself that are pretty freaking awesome! The rest? You can work on.

 

We're all a 'work' in progress.

 

We're all are going to stumbled and fumble our way through the goal post of Life!

 

Unless your a Marine and Gunny376!

 

Its HARD to be humble when your PERFECT in every way!

 

In other words?

 

You've got to have a certain amount of love and self respect for yourself!

 

Oh! Go to somewhere neutral!