Do you think MM blame OW for not being able to control themselves

[delirious]

My A has ended (before anyone tells me to). From the conversation and the toing and froing, up and downs, stopping and starting that has gone on in the last few months, I sort of got the impression that he blamed me for letting it continue. He said he had tried to end up. Well he did about three weeks ago, and since then we have had long conversations. The last few times we spoke, I said can we just meet and talk for a coffee which I fully intended to do. Instead he took me to some quiet place near the sea. I missed him so much that I just hugged him tightly nothing else (never touched him sexually). He then started kissing me passionately. I said well lets meet up again. So we made arrangements and he did not turn up. I rang him as I always do and he was saying how stressed he was with things, could not get away, how all this had got to him etc. blah blah blah. Almost shouting at me. I said hang on a minute, you re-started this not me, I just wanted to go and talk with you. He was almost blaming me for letting him lose control again. I did not touch him in that way, he was all over me like a crazy man and just looked really pathetic, like he was made of chocolate. I had said to him, so you want to see me still and he said 'yes'. Man, this man is so f.... spineless and he finishes with me on the phone after 10 months because his daughter had made a comment about me ringing. So my question is, do you think some men blame OW for not being able to control their physical feelings. I know when he sees me, he just turns to jelly, as I do, but I did not start it again.

PS I would like to add that we are both first timers, never likely to do this again.

[skywriter]

delirious,

 

I can't say what your MM is thinking, but if he is blaming you, then he may be dealing with this, by misplacing blame.

 

Either way, the way I see it, he has let you off the hook. It just gets harder and more painful as time goes by. Then you as the OW will resent him for your life passing you by.

 

I know you are suffering the loss of him and to turn you away as he did, so easily. He may come back and if and when he does. I hope that you will have had time to gathr your strength and control the outcome, as you see fit.

[2sure]

well, many people who cheat need to justify their behavior even to themselves, and so they blame anyone but themselves. Their spouse for being less than adequate or the OW for being too available.

 

Please know that your affair with him continues as long as you see him or talk to him. Not having sex does not end the affair. Make no mistake about that.

 

Many MM dont want to be the bad guy. Its very very common. They dont want to divorce their wife and hurt her. They may want to end an affair but dont want to hurt OW. Its cowardly, and really it is Justification for themselves.

 

However, your MM sounds as though he is frustrated that even though he has tried to end the affair , he doesnt want to hurt you so continues to meet you for coffee , whatever. Because he is selfish, he is feeling guilty about hurting you but now he is pissed off "you are making him do this to you".

 

Ridiculous.

[Reggie]

I agree with 2sure. It seems a common theme among WSs to avoid responsibility.

[delirious]

But I did not make him restart, I just wanted to talk. It was him that was all over me. He however is probably blaming me for letting him. But why get angry with me? He says it's too stressful. He started this and went for me in a big way, in front of his wife even (ps i did not take him up on it for over a year). He took enormous risks to be with me, sometimes twice a day, and now I can't even call him without him freaking out. I know he feels the same as before about me because he is just overwhelmed when he touches me, so it is not as if he has lost interest. I think by writing this I am probably realising that suspicions have been roused at home and he cannot keep lying, whereas before, he was just nervous, he is now nervous and stressed. Hey this is good therapy.

 

I was surprised that going for a coffee with someone was considered having an affair in a BS's mind, thanks for that insight.

 

Thanks for your posts by the way. It does help.

[dobler33]

i agree w 2sure. the last contact i had w the MM was a letter in which he was (i'm sure unintentionally) condescending, making it sounds as though i had crossed some boundary that he was trying to rebuild, when it was him that pursued me and initiated the affair. when i got it i was enraged and hated him for a good few weeks, but i see now that he had to somehow make it right in his head so that he could see himself as a redeemable and not utterly evil man, so that he could lay next to his wife at night knowing that he loved me more but couldn't hurt her by leaving. it's totally infuriating but there's nothing you can do about it. and i also agree that NC is the ONLY way here; these wounds are deep enough, baby, without sticking your finger in them. he is going to continue struggling with his love and desire for you, and the easiest way for him to deal with that is to arrange it in his mind that you are seducing him. and i humbly and gently submit that you don't really have anything to talk to him about. i imagine you have LOTS of things you'd like to say, big emotions and hurt and longing, but if it's done then there's no use in saying them to him. say them to us, say them to your journal, say them to your cat. but saying them to him is only going to perpetuate the feelings behind them, not let them heal. for either of you.

 

good luck, my dear. i know something of where you are and it is nothing but suck.

[norajane]

I was surprised that going for a coffee with someone was considered having an affair in a BS's mind, thanks for that insight.

When you'd been having sex with him, yes, you are continuing the affair by seeing each other. Affairs aren't only defined by having sex, and in this case, you wouldn't have met had it not been for your affair in the first place. Maintaining contact is a way to continue the emotions and excitement that drove the affair to begin with.

 

If I recall correctly, 2sure, who made that comment, was also an OW at times and a WS, so don't be so certain that everyone who makes comments that surprise or that you don't agree with is a BS. I see that mistake made here quite frequently.

 

And I believe he's angry with you because 1) he really doesn't want to take responsibility for his choices in having this affair, and 2) he's afraid of getting caught now, so your call that his daughter referenced is an easy way for him to blame you for his current stress.

[wildsoul]

This reminds me of the love/hate drug addicts have with their substance of choice:

• Feelings of compulsion towards the high make them use.
  
• Feelings of regret afterwards.
  
• Promise themselves they won't use again.
  
• Feelings of compulsion make them use again.
  
• Feelings of resentment & despair over their powerlessness to remain sober.
  

In this analogy, he's trying to end the affair with you, but keeps breaking his word to himself and being in contact with you. You're not solely to blame anymore than a drug addict can solely blame the heroin for their addiction. The responsiblity ultimately lies with the user.

 

Yet co-addictive relationships are more complicated than the heroin example. Heroin can't pick up the phone and arrange a coffee meeting. Two relationship addicts can keep "using" each other in this way until someone goes NC.

[Gamine]

My husband claims that his MOW (who happened to be an ex-girlfriend from before we were ever married) initiated contact with him and that her conversations quickly turned sexual. In his account of what happened, she offered sex and suggested they meet for sex. Mind you, she didn't ask for a lunch out by the sea, or a cup of coffee, or a walk along a country road holding hands... just a hotel with a room key.

 

So, of course, his idea is that had she not offered the 'sex' there would have been nothing to take her up on... and hence, adultery would not have taken place.

 

Certainly, whether someone offers or not... to me is immaterial to the act. She found a playmate willing to participate in her idea of fun. He was responsible and accountable (fully) for his own decision. However as he sees it... she caused it to happen.

[2sure]

However as he sees it... she caused it to happen.

 

Ei yi yi. What was it like to bang your head against THAT wall?

(said with much affection)

[dobler33]

My husband claims that his MOW (who happened to be an ex-girlfriend from before we were ever married) initiated contact with him and that her conversations quickly turned sexual. In his account of what happened, she offered sex and suggested they meet for sex. Mind you, she didn't ask for a lunch out by the sea, or a cup of coffee, or a walk along a country road holding hands... just a hotel with a room key.

 

So, of course, his idea is that had she not offered the 'sex' there would have been nothing to take her up on... and hence, adultery would not have taken place.

 

Certainly, whether someone offers or not... to me is immaterial to the act. She found a playmate willing to participate in her idea of fun. He was responsible and accountable (fully) for his own decision. However as he sees it... she caused it to happen.

 

 

i love this version of male anatomy, wherein the executive functioning takes place not in the frontal lobes but in the y-fronts. oh, cruel seductress who caused me to stray from the straight and narrow - this is the same logic that burned thousands of women as witches. bums me right the hell out.

[2sure]

Makes it even more convenient for the MM when the BS also blames the OW. It goes like this:

BS is naturally hating on OW (at least initially).

So, the WS sees that opening and nearly stands and shouts: YES, Its all HER fault. Takes about 2 minutes for him to believe this himself.

[dobler33]

Makes it even more convenient for the MM when the BS also blames the OW. It goes like this:

BS is naturally hating on OW (at least initially).

So, the WS sees that opening and nearly stands and shouts: YES, Its all HER fault. Takes about 2 minutes for him to believe this himself.

 

ai dios. i shudder to think what's happening in the home of my xMM. "the evil redheaded sorceress made me do it." luckily i have full documentation of his mad pursuit of me.

[White Flower]

My A has ended (before anyone tells me to). From the conversation and the toing and froing, up and downs, stopping and starting that has gone on in the last few months, I sort of got the impression that he blamed me for letting it continue. He said he had tried to end up. Well he did about three weeks ago, and since then we have had long conversations. The last few times we spoke, I said can we just meet and talk for a coffee which I fully intended to do. Instead he took me to some quiet place near the sea. I missed him so much that I just hugged him tightly nothing else (never touched him sexually). He then started kissing me passionately. I said well lets meet up again. So we made arrangements and he did not turn up. I rang him as I always do and he was saying how stressed he was with things, could not get away, how all this had got to him etc. blah blah blah. Almost shouting at me. I said hang on a minute, you re-started this not me, I just wanted to go and talk with you. He was almost blaming me for letting him lose control again. I did not touch him in that way, he was all over me like a crazy man and just looked really pathetic, like he was made of chocolate. I had said to him, so you want to see me still and he said 'yes'. Man, this man is so f.... spineless and he finishes with me on the phone after 10 months because his daughter had made a comment about me ringing. So my question is, do you think some men blame OW for not being able to control their physical feelings. I know when he sees me, he just turns to jelly, as I do, but I did not start it again.

PS I would like to add that we are both first timers, never likely to do this again.

In studying art history, focusing on women in history, we learn that just a few hundred years ago it was thought that a woman's essence was in her body (and not in her brains!). Therefore, it was a woman who seduced a man, tempted him, made his appendages tingle and forced him to overcome her with his physical power. What a contradiction in rationality!

 

Even though overall we understand that a woman's essence is equal to that of a man's some people remain to stay ignorant. If MM is blaming you for tempting him; making YOU responsible for HIS actions, you are dealing with a nut! Teach him the phrase, 'Every man for himself', which can mean, 'I am responsible for me and you are responsible for you'.

 

Don't let him forget his own role in the A.

[2sure]

I was thinking about this. All the blame that goes to OW, especially when MM uses it to deflect.

 

But seriously:

If my H had defended OW in any way, I would have said he was protecting her.

If he had thrown her under the bus - I would have said he was not owning his responsibility.

 

No win, there I guess.

[delirious]

i agree w 2sure. the last contact i had w the MM was a letter in which he was (i'm sure unintentionally) condescending, making it sounds as though i had crossed some boundary that he was trying to rebuild, when it was him that pursued me and initiated the affair. when i got it i was enraged and hated him for a good few weeks, but i see now that he had to somehow make it right in his head so that he could see himself as a redeemable and not utterly evil man, so that he could lay next to his wife at night knowing that he loved me more but couldn't hurt her by leaving. it's totally infuriating but there's nothing you can do about it. and i also agree that NC is the ONLY way here; these wounds are deep enough, baby, without sticking your finger in them. he is going to continue struggling with his love and desire for you, and the easiest way for him to deal with that is to arrange it in his mind that you are seducing him. and i humbly and gently submit that you don't really have anything to talk to him about. i imagine you have LOTS of things you'd like to say, big emotions and hurt and longing, but if it's done then there's no use in saying them to him. say them to us, say them to your journal, say them to your cat. but saying them to him is only going to perpetuate the feelings behind them, not let them heal. for either of you.

 

good luck, my dear. i know something of where you are and it is nothing but suck.

Thanks everybody for replying. Particularly Dobler, which made me cry. I am crying now. I wish I was stronger, I think he does love me, but is trying his best to fight it. Not that it makes any difference to the situation. I have to stop this. Please help me do this.

[2sure]

Like you said: You have to stop this.

HE isnt doing anything TO you.

The best best best lesson I have ever learned in life was to stop being a victim of myself.

Instead of finding yourself in bad relationships, then wondering why you are the victim of someone else....

 

Own up to your responsibility to protect yourself. Its a small step, but important.

 

You can do this.

[Gamine]

I was thinking about this. All the blame that goes to OW, especially when MM uses it to deflect.

 

But seriously:

If my H had defended OW in any way, I would have said he was protecting her.

If he had thrown her under the bus - I would have said he was not owning his responsibility.

 

No win, there I guess.

 

Oh, I totally understand this. However, when it comes to my husband I have held him to accountability for his own decisions. I don't care who eggs him on, it was his choice... period. So he's accountable. It was the mitigating of circumstances regarding her easy offer that angered me the most. It is as if he's saying he is a dowser rod constantly in search of water and when it is discovered... bam.

 

I've been hit on and haven't take the bait, simply because I'm not interested in being a part of someone else's drama AND, I'm married until I'm not married anymore. No one is forcing me to be married so if I know I want to break that promise, I'll move on first.

 

I would be disingenuous if I said I didn't have deep anger for the OMW that lasted for quite some time. Not for the 'responsibility' for it having taken place... but her participation in making it so. She had a husband and didn't require mine for sexual services. In fact, I should have sent her an invoice for services rendered.

[jj33]

Why is it hard? I dont understand that. He is treating you badly telling you he wants distance. What is there about this that you dont understand?

 

So what if he loves you in some way. Are you willing to be a martyr? And what does that mean exactly? That you will insert yourself in the life of a married man who is not even really pursuing you?

 

All because your secret decoder tells you he loves you?

 

I am being purposely harsh. Im sure he does care about you. But wake up! How much do you have to punish yourself because he is confused? YOu dont.

 

This is a train to nowhere but pain. Get off. You may stilll miss him etc etc but at least you arent banging your head against the wall with this codependency.

[dobler33]

Thanks everybody for replying. Particularly Dobler, which made me cry. I am crying now. I wish I was stronger, I think he does love me, but is trying his best to fight it. Not that it makes any difference to the situation. I have to stop this. Please help me do this.

 

 

hang on, delirious, the cavalry is on the way. it hurts hurts hurts hurts, but i am here to tell you, as are a whole bunch of others here, that the hurt goes away over time. you are stronger, it is just so easy to forget that when there is a big empty place in your belly where this person has been. the only thing you can be sure of, however, is that it will feel better. the longer you put off NC the longer you'll have to wait till it feels better. that last word is the beginning of the healing.

 

i'm trying to figure out a way to link to another thread here, cause i started one a while back about how to deal with the pain and a lot of caring concerned suggestions came back. i think it was called "useful tips for surviving the drive-by moments" or something like that. baking, doing laundry, getting excersize, calling friends, little mantras to tell yourself when it starts to feel unbearable. (my favorite was "pee on you!" i like to say that one out loud in public just for the looks.)

 

what kind of support do you need? shout out, honey. let us know.

[White Flower]

Delirious,

 

Maybe you should put the focus on yourself and forget about what MM thinks. He can figure out his own path; you need to figure out yours.

 

ExMM used to blame himself for pursuing me knowing full well I would probably fall in love only to have him tell me he was never leaving his W. And I wanted to hold him accountable for sure. Yet, it was I who had the ability to say NO to his calls, NO to his advances, and NO to him.

 

I blame myself as well. This is what I work on now because I choose to, not because exMM wants me to. There is power even in that.

[NoIDidn't]

I was thinking about this. All the blame that goes to OW, especially when MM uses it to deflect.

 

But seriously:

If my H had defended OW in any way, I would have said he was protecting her.

If he had thrown her under the bus - I would have said he was not owning his responsibility.

 

No win, there I guess.

 

Agreed. My H didn't defend her or throw her under the bus. I didn't bring her up either. She had her own house to be concerned with was my reasoning.

 

In my situation, though, I dealt with the opposite occurence: the OW blaming the MM. She said "he got her hopes up". From the things I was told, she blamed my H for her BF breaking up with her - not her cheating on him. She blamed me for contacting her BF - not that she was actually doing anything that would have given me any reason to contact a complete stranger.

 

It goes both ways, I guess.

[jj33]

Delirious have you thought about why you are hanging on and willing to see him etc when you know he is not committed even to having an affair?

 

Im not saying its easy. ALl this time later I was at a seminar last week, saw him seated next to an attractive woman and decided based on the fact that she looked attractive from behind and they were sitting next to each other (??) that he was sleeping with her and spent the entire time hating them.

 

But... compare that to still being in it. Im not saying I am any sort of a role model in terms of getting over it, I am not at all, but the important thing is to get out.

 

Staying in it isnt going to make him leave his marriage. He needs to sort himself out

[delirious]

How can anyone 'commit' to having an affair. If you are in an affair surely you have guilt problems, you are always scared of being found out, there are moments when you can't leave the house, make a call even. No one can commit to an affair, can they? I have been too understanding though and when he does not turn up, even though I believe the reasons, it feels like utter sh.... and I go on such a downer. Conversely when i do see him, it is the best feeling in the world, so it's a choice between life being hum drum or the ecstacy/misery which i am hooked to like a drug. Even if i see him in the car, i feel sick. Today someone mentioned his w and i felt sick too. Worse still i was thinking like if she found out, she knows everyone, my life would be even more sh... and so would hers to boot. what if he said it was me that kept calling him, even though that was our arrangement.

He has stopped and started, more started than stopped, so i just thought he was just getting his head sorted. Is this common the stopping and starting in affairs - anyone? I guess the guilt eats away though and eventually you cannot cope with it. I am starting to feel it now, although i was so carried away with the love/passion aspect, i did not feel it before because it made me feel so different, so high, so beautiful. I need to understand Dobler what he is going through to make him so fickle. My mind is analysing every word now, and I am seeing my own ar.. I wish it would stop. The fog is lifting, but I am not sure I want to see through it. Thanks for the input guys.

[jj33]

Commit isnt the right word but he can treat you like you are a priority in his life.

 

He stands you up? Are you kidding? Thats total crap. You shouldnt put up with that. In the age of cellular communication there is NO reason to be stood up.

 

And get his head sorted for what? So that he can cheat? Honey if he needs that much lead time, no no no its all wrong.

 

Im going to leave you and Dobler to it. I think you are more interested in analysing WHY you should let this man treat you like a convenience in the hope that someday he will actually treat you well, then facing up to the fact that you are being a doormat and feeding yourself fantasies.

 

You only need to understand that noone should b fickle with you. If he doesnt get that you are the best thign that ever happened to him, then why are you standing around asking questions?