Do you think we're (humans) meant to be monogamous?

[Jennifer26]

I got into a conversation about this recently, and thought it was an interesting topic.

 

I have to admit, I don't really know the answer. I've heard arguments for and against. However, I haven't really found a concrete answer. Most are just theories.

 

On the one hand, you have sexual dimorphism in humans is pretty low, which suggests we're leaning more towards the monogamous side in nature. There are also possible indications such as our offspring being altricial, the fact we release the neurochemicals oxytocin, and valsopressin during sex which have been shown to form bonds in humans and other species of animals.

 

On the other hand, I've heard many times that men are meant to "spread their seed far and wide" and that monogamy is more of a social/cultural institution, and not what nature intended. The fact there is so much cheating in monogamous relationships perhaps supports this?

 

I don't find much evidence to support either really. Not from credible sources that is. So I'm not sure if there is information I am missing or not. But I did want to get your thoughts on the matter.

[TudorII]

This topic is like abortion, you are damned if you are for it and damned if you are against it depending on your audience.

 

The only thing that matters is how you feel about it and that your partner hopefully shares that opinion. When it comes done to it those are the only two opinions that matter.

[Trialbyfire]

I think you're going to find all kinds of people on this planet we call home. If you're the type that's monogamous, stick to monogamous partners. If you're the type that's not monogamous, avoid relationships that require monogamy.

[TaraMaiden]

There is only one thing that makes us different to the majority of animals and that is our higher intellect. Our ability to reason and discern.

We have evolved to occupying the position 'at the top of the food chain' but it has not always played to our advantage.

I personally believe humans were not programmed to be monogamous.

Most mammals are not.

Human beings are conditioned by religion, Law, social ethics and nurturing - to be monogamous.

But I do not believe this to be a natural state.

 

However, TudorII is completely accurate.

It is an agreement between you and your partner. And you both have to be of one mind.

 

Inspite of what I believe, my partner is completely on the side of fidelity. It would be a total anathema to him to ever be unfaithful.

And I would never ever consider abusing that opinion, ever.

[2sure]

Regardless of moral views on monogamy, I will never believe that NOT being monogamous is because of a basic natural instinct or a compulsion that cannot be controlled.

In other words: Its a choice.

[Jennifer26]

I certainly agree we can be monogamous if we choose to be. Although, for many it seems to be hard to actually follow through with it.

 

We're also meant to eat food when it's plentiful, incase of times of famine. Unfortunately, this has caused many people to become obese because of the vast amount of food available to many in these times.

 

I wonder, if we're not "programmed" to be monogamous, how difficult is it to remain that way? Even if you're fully committed and love your spouse.

 

How strong is the urge to procreate with others, or "spread your seed" in a mans case?

 

My own opinion is that we're serial monogamists, meaning we're meant to be with one partner, but only for a limited amount of time (about the amount of time it takes to become pregnant and for the mother to finish nursing).

[norajane]

If monogamy were so unnatural, why would we have even developed the social/cultural institution in the first place?

[Jennifer26]

If monogamy were so unnatural, why would we have even developed the social/cultural institution in the first place?

 

That's a good point. And I think the fact that we do have higher reasoning makes us more than capable of squelching 'biological urges' as well.

 

I think monogamy makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider how long it takes human offspring to become independent. And I have seen good evidence that biologically, we just may be wired to be monogamous.

 

Perhaps our longer lives, and starting childbearing later in life has also caused issues with staying monogamous.

 

There are many factors that can be considered.

[Trialbyfire]

how difficult is it to remain that way? Even if you're fully committed and love your spouse.

I can't speak for anyone else but this is easy for me to do, in any serious relationship.

[TudorII]

Not all cultures do. Some take several wives and others have one but condone lovers on the side. What is socially acceptable is dependent on the society in which you are discussing as is what is morally acceptable.

 

2sure said it best; it is a choice... regardless of which way you are wired or what your culture is.

[redtail]

"Meant" to be monogamous implies to some degree that we are predestined to monogamy. I personally don't believe in predestination. Since people are the most domesticated animals on the planet, instinctive behavior is all but "bred" out of us.

 

So the question of monogamy is one that we can only answer from our own sense of morality and integrity as it applies to our relationships. In other words, we decide if it's ok to cheat or not.

 

Personally, I believe a monogamous relationship to be in harmony with the way people live in today's society.To say that cheating is evidence to the contrary sounds to me like pointing out all the killing as evidence that man is meant to be murderous.

[stuckinoz]

If monogamy were so unnatural, why would we have even developed the social/cultural institution in the first place?

 

I think it's CHURCH & STATE that make it an "institution".....

No I don't believe we're programmed to be monogamous.

[2sure]

Ive got a good for instance.

 

I have known many couples in the "swingers" lifestyle. Morals aside, they usually entered it believing that this sexual openness would prevent cheating in their marriage. The access to multiple partners was certainly there.

 

Nearly all of the marriages have at some point dealt with infidelity, in that their spouse had sex with someone else behind the other spouses back. Secret. Deception.

Monogamy , the concept up of it has about as much to do with sex as infidelity does.

[Jersey Shortie]

I think that people have the capability to do both naturally, be monogomous or have many partners. Like you stated in your first post, we have chemicals in our bodies that support both sides. It's not that one is less or more natural then the other. It's about choice. We are biologically given the choice and that is what seperates us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

[redtail]

Ive got a good for instance.

 

...

Monogamy , the concept up of it has about as much to do with sex as infidelity does.

 

Sorry, I think I missed your point. Are saying that monogamy does not have anything to do with sex, because swingers have sex with multiple partners by agreement with their spouse? Since this agreement and rules of sex are meant to keep them together?

 

Fasinating concept! Isolated to those that could condone that life style I suspect. Furthers the notion that monogamy is a choice, and we choose the rules.

[norajane]

I think it's CHURCH & STATE that make it an "institution".....

 

That's fine, but why would church and state have made it so? Why do we all go along with it?

 

If it weren't somewhere in our dna, we'd be living like animals in packs, with a dominant male. But, we don't.

 

If monogamy were completely against our nature, it wouldn't have caught on as societal/cultural institution.

[eyeswide]

Isn't there some evidence that men are more likely to seek OW when their own wives get to be beyond the procreative age, as it were? This would suggest that they may very well be responding to chemical signals in pheromones that they are not even conscious of -- both their wife's lacking some and those delicious, young OW's having 'em.

 

I'm not saying that they necessarily are planning to go out and spread their seed...but that may very well be adding to the chemical drama in their heads.

 

I'm also in complete agreement with 2sure: We always have a choice.

[HsMomma]

I can't speak for anyone else but this is easy for me to do, in any serious relationship.

 

Me, too, TBF. It is my choice, yes, but it is also an easy one.

[TaraMaiden]

Regardless of moral views on monogamy, I will never believe that NOT being monogamous is because of a basic natural instinct or a compulsion that cannot be controlled.

In other words: Its a choice.

Yes, it is a choice. A choice based on hundreds of years of morality imposed by Church and state, and National law. if you lived in a Moslem country, you would think nothing of a man having multiple wives. So you are subject to conditioning. That's fine and understandable, it's not a criticism. But you base your choice on Nurture, not Nature....

 

If monogamy were so unnatural, why would we have even developed the social/cultural institution in the first place?

Because the Church decided that Fornication is an original sin, as Adam and Eve indulged but ate of the tree of knowledge. since they tainted mankind, The church made sex a sin. And attempted to restrict people's desires.

We are far more questioning and cynical nowadays, but once upon a time people set great store by the word of the Church....

 

"Meant" to be monogamous implies to some degree that we are predestined to monogamy. I personally don't believe in predestination. Since people are the most domesticated animals on the planet, instinctive behavior is all but "bred" out of us.

 

So the question of monogamy is one that we can only answer from our own sense of morality and integrity as it applies to our relationships. In other words, we decide if it's ok to cheat or not.

 

Personally, I believe a monogamous relationship to be in harmony with the way people live in today's society.To say that cheating is evidence to the contrary sounds to me like pointing out all the killing as evidence that man is meant to be murderous.

 

When did cheating come into the equation? We are not discussing cheating, per se. We are discussing having multiple partners and whether it is natural to be monogamous.

I do not believe as humans, that we are meant to be monogamous, naturally. But monogamy is a promise we make. If we make that promise, we should keep it. If we cannot keep it - do not commit to a one-on-one relationship.

 

Ive got a good for instance.

 

I have known many couples in the "swingers" lifestyle. Morals aside, they usually entered it believing that this sexual openness would prevent cheating in their marriage. The access to multiple partners was certainly there.

Aren't swingwers indulging in a non-monogamous pastime? "Morals aside" My point exactly. Monogamy entails morals, "swinging" doesn't, insofar as this discussion topic is concerned...

 

Nearly all of the marriages have at some point dealt with infidelity, in that their spouse had sex with someone else behind the other spouses back. Secret. Deception.

This is a strawman argument. we are not discussing fidelity or deception. This has nothing to do with marriage....we are discussing whether people are meant to be monogamous... Monogamy/marriage entails sticking with one partner. This is a given.

Monogamy , the concept up of it has about as much to do with sex as infidelity does.

Incorrect.

 

I think that people have the capability to do both naturally, be monogomous or have many partners. Like you stated in your first post, we have chemicals in our bodies that support both sides. It's not that one is less or more natural then the other. It's about choice. We are biologically given the choice and that is what seperates us from the rest of the animal kingdom.

You are confusing choice with instinct. Animals have instinct and make choices based on these instincts. we make choices through evaluating a far wider parameter of options, with far more consideration. THAT is what separates us from other animals. But we are PART of the animal kingdom. The mistake is to assume we are not, or that we are naturally superior in every way to every other creature.

 

That's fine, but why would church and state have made it so? Why do we all go along with it?

becuse at the time that Church and state made these laws, the majority of people were illiterate and uneducated. the church ruled society with a rod of iron, and superstition was rife. Church leaders controlled people through fear and menace.

Since becoming more educated, you will notice that the ten commandments have been largely relegated to being "ten suggestions, but it's up to you".....

 

 

If it weren't somewhere in our dna, we'd be living like animals in packs, with a dominant male. But, we don't.

So who do you think Obama is then? And what about the Priest at your church? Are they not 'dominant males'?

 

If monogamy were completely against our nature, it wouldn't have caught on as societal/cultural institution.

Monogamy IS against our nature. People choose to be monogamous. But the very best intentions in the world still lead to a 50% div orce rate. as you 're all bringing up the marriage card..... Sure, there are many psychological reasons put forward for giving reasons to be non-monogamous., The bottom line is that people have sex with other people because it is what they want to do.

Isn't there some evidence that men are more likely to seek OW when their own wives get to be beyond the procreative age, as it were? This would suggest that they may very well be responding to chemical signals in pheromones that they are not even conscious of -- both their wife's lacking some and those delicious, young OW's having 'em.

 

I'm not saying that they necessarily are planning to go out and spread their seed...but that may very well be adding to the chemical drama in their heads.

 

I'm also in complete agreement with 2sure: We always have a choice.

And women are unfaithful because the seed of their current partner is no longer an attractive or secure option for perpetuating a sound line of offspring.

It works both ways.....

 

We have a choice.

So choose.

What are you basing your choice on?

Moral ethical values?

Of course you are.

because you have been conditioned, over hundreds of years, to be this way.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Interesting conversation.

 

If you know anything about me, you are likely aware that my marriage does not include monogamy, at least in a sexual sense. We are emotionally monogamous, though I have no philosophical objection to a polygamous relationship should we awaken one day to find ourselves in one. Not something we're actively seeking, however.

 

But merely by looking at the sheer numbers of folks fooling around, getting divorced, or otherwise playing the player, I'd say that monogamy is not what we're built for. Heck, even those who purport to want it usually only manage to accomplish serial monogamy.

 

I'll pass, thanks. I'm having too much fun.

[norajane]

So who do you think Obama is then? And what about the Priest at your church? Are they not 'dominant males'?

 

Yes, but they aren't inseminating all the females in the pack and chasing the other males away.

[NoIDidn't]

We have a choice.

So choose.

What are you basing your choice on?

Moral ethical values?

Of course you are.

because you have been conditioned, over hundreds of years, to be this way.

 

I disagree with your conclusion that its because of Church, State, and National laws (which do fall under: State).

 

Humans are thinking animals. We aren't driven by instincts like wild animals. We lived by our base emotions and urges at one time and decided that it wasn't the best way of life.

 

Regardless of what a church or state might decide, before the age of condoms and other means of avoiding unwanted pregnancies and STDs, monogamy was the best alternative.

 

I certainly believe that humans are capable of both monogamy and polyamory-type relationships. But I think our reasoning capabilities are and should be stronger than our base urges.

 

Even though polygamy is practiced by many Muslims around the word, they know about jealousy first hand. Allowing our base urges to rule us seems to lead to all kinds of other base emotions showing up: jealousy, anger, envy, hatred.

 

I think monogamy is the best choice, but respect that others may not feel that way and choose differently. Heck, I might even choose differently if my circumstances warranted it.

 

So, I agree that its a choice but not necessarily that its a choice only made because of church or state legalities.

[sally4sara]

I do believe we are capable of both and which way we tend to lean has much to do with our cultural construct.

As to men being less capable; I think cultural influences of the past colored our modern views on that. That, plus past anthropological studies that have since been proven false in 2003. Prior to the 2003 study of The "First Family", it was believed we evolved from a species where the males had many females they reproduced with.

 

I recently learned about the Mosuo and their "Walking Marriage" culture.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosuo#Walking_marriages

 

They sound really chill about the whole thing.

[sally4sara]

Yes, but they aren't inseminating all the females in the pack and chasing the other males away.

 

This is a quality in mammals where the females VISIBLY ovulate.

Human females don't do that, so our males don't have to battle for rights.

 

Now if we lived in a culture where we still had to stay in a particular part of the house or an entirely different building; refrain from preparing food for men during our menses....

 

it would SOOOO be a cage match up in here!

[Holding-On]

I don't think we are "meant" to have monogamy but I think in the past there were many good reasons for monogamy and cultures that adhered to it (more or less) may have had a better chance of living in harmony in large groups.

 

1. Sexual frustration. In Muslim/forced polygamism communities (splinter LDS for example) and in China now, there are many young sexually frustrated men because in the first case some men have taken more than their "fair share" of women or because the females have been aborted. You can see how well that works. I would imagine that females in a polygamist marriage are more likely to be sexually frustrated too, especially when the old man takes on a new and more interesting wife. In an enforced one man one woman situation there is probably inherently less violence in society.

 

2. Pregnancy. It didn't used to be possible to prevent pregnancy. The woman would have the committment of the man to care for the offspring and the man had a better chance that the children he was raising were actually his.

 

3. STDs. Modern medicine, understanding, and better barrier methods have minimized this. Most people do not die from syphillis or gonorreha any longer but marrying a couple of virgins to each other for life was about as safe as you could get.

 

4. For most peasants, lifespans were shorter. Leisure time was less. So lots of time to have sex did not really exist.

 

5. Simplicity. The social rules are easier. Polyamory requires a lot of work.