Reggie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I think most can see the arguments cheaters use to justify or explain their choices to cheat. It is not a matter of not seeing it. It is just that , to many people, regardless of the explanation given(and it is often slanted to make the cheater seem justified), it is just never acceptable to have cheated. So, the "other side of the coin" is of no interest to them. Folks have very different views on the importance of fidelity and the significance of the vows. Just like we see folks all along the continum on the significance of sex. To some, it is a mere bodily function of little significance. To others it is sacred and reserved for their spouse. People fall all along this continuum. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 You sure do grasp at things here don't you. I've never killed anyone & NO I don't sympathize with Timothy McVeigh. read again, I did say it was an off the wall comparison, but its the principle that is the same. Nor do I think you should sympathize totally with us. Well a cheater isn't going to get ANY from me. Only time it might even be a remote possibility is if someone did it after being cheated on because of the pain they are in from being betrayed. And EVEN THEN, no sympathy. They would have become no better. I was merely saying - See both sides of the coin. Well if one side of the coin is covered in s##t, i don't want to turn it over. Tell me, what side of the coin, in other words the cheater's side, should I sympathize with? What part is it that I should agree with? Don't use examples that are far fetched If you're going to compare - let's compare apples to apples...K? Well what other things...whether it be a crime or betrayal, can be compared with getting sex from someone other than one's spouse and hurting them in one of the worst ways? you tell me, and then I'll make the comparison. Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedinkansas Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 Well what other things...whether it be a crime or betrayal, can be compared with getting sex from someone other than one's spouse and hurting them in one of the worst ways? you tell me, and then I'll make the comparison. I guess since my marriage nor my husband was "hurt in one of the worst ways" ...then perhaps that's why I don't TOTALLY get where you're coming from. Well if one side of the coin is covered in s##t, i don't want to turn it over. That's funny....Guess I wouldn't wanna turn it over either. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 On the far fetched thing, this was the subject of another discussion on another thread. Dex is right, it is simply an analogy used to demontrate a principle. And, it alway seems that folks that have cheated consider this offens so relatively minor, when many therapist consider it to be one of the most extreme forms of abuse. So, what type of analogy is appropriate, a parking ticket? Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I guess since my marriage nor my husband was "hurt in one of the worst ways" ...then perhaps that's why I don't TOTALLY get where you're coming from. well your right there. your husband was WAY too laisez faire to respond in the "oh well" fashion that he did. Only one way I could think of not reacting like I was bothered by any of it like your H did, and thats if I was a cheater too, or really could have cared less. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 On the far fetched thing, this was the subject of another discussion on another thread. Dex is right, it is simply an analogy used to demontrate a principle. And, it alway seems that folks that have cheated consider this offens so relatively minor, when many therapist consider it to be one of the most extreme forms of abuse. So, what type of analogy is appropriate, a parking ticket? thats not a good analogy either......I wouldn't crumple and throw a parking ticket on the curb Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedinkansas Posted June 8, 2009 Author Share Posted June 8, 2009 And, it alway seems that folks that have cheated consider this offens so relatively minor, when many therapist consider it to be one of the most extreme forms of abuse. So, what type of analogy is appropriate, a parking ticket? that has to be a joke!!! :rolleyes:Cheating - most extreme abuse! Guess some of us live in one world - others live in another. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 that has to be a joke!!! :rolleyes:Cheating - most extreme abuse! Guess some of us live in one world - others live in another. While I agree that cheating is an extraordinarily hurtful and disrepectful thing to do to a person, I think anyone who has been physically, sexually, emotionally or mentally abused might beg to differ on degrees of "extreme." I've been in the BS shoes & believe me, it does indeed suck...BUT I've also been physically abused by someone who supposedly loved me. I have to say I recovered better from the A than the fists. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 that has to be a joke!!! :rolleyes:Cheating - most extreme abuse! . geez, I think you need to take a reading comprehension class... He said "ONE of the most extreme forms of abuse" not the "most extreme" for those of us that have been cheated on, we agree with that statement. It IS ONE of the most extreme forms of abuse. Being cheated on can make people do crazy things.....losing weight to the point of damaging ones health, depression..... Not all of us can be so aloof as your husband, but then again, he is a cheater himself. he really can't get all balled up inside about what you did. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 While I agree that cheating is an extraordinarily hurtful and disrepectful thing to do to a person, I think anyone who has been physically, sexually, emotionally or mentally abused might beg to differ on degrees of "extreme." I've been in the BS shoes & believe me, it does indeed suck...BUT I've also been physically abused by someone who supposedly loved me. I have to say I recovered better from the A than the fists. I think it varies from person to person. Harley did some research, talking to people who had been both sexually assaulted or lost a child and cheated on. The responses he received indicated that the trauma from the cheating was greater. In my case, I was sexually assaulted repeatedly as a child and I think the recovery from the assaults was easier for me. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 that has to be a joke!!! :rolleyes:Cheating - most extreme abuse! Guess some of us live in one world - others live in another. No, I did not mean it as a joke. But, I am glad not to be living in your world:). Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I think it varies from person to person. Harley did some research, talking to people who had been both sexually assaulted or lost a child and cheated on. The responses he received indicated that the trauma from the cheating was greater. In my case, I was sexually assaulted repeatedly as a child and I think the recovery from the assaults was easier for me. I'm so sorry, Reggie, for your pain. Of course you're right that it does vary from person to person. In my particular experience, I'd gotten to the point where my marriage was so far gone that when the A actually came to light, it was almost a relief to end the marriage. That's why I say it was easier for me to deal with that than the other relationship where the physical abuse occurred. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 thats not a good analogy either......I wouldn't crumple and throw a parking ticket on the curb Nor would I. But, I was not speaking about the response to the transgression, merely the severity of the offense. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I'm so sorry, Reggie, for your pain. Of course you're right that it does vary from person to person. In my particular experience, I'd gotten to the point where my marriage was so far gone that when the A actually came to light, it was almost a relief to end the marriage. That's why I say it was easier for me to deal with that than the other relationship where the physical abuse occurred. I must admit, that by the time I discovered the cheating, it was almost a relief, as well. I'd been gaslighted for quite some time and finding out I was not nuts , was very reassuring. In my more rational moments, I view it as a get out of jail free card, as it got me off my butt and out of a very unhealthy, abusive realtionship. Thanks for reminding me. And, thanks for the expression of sympathy. Those events from my childhood did scar me, perhaps making this betryal more painful. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Those events from my childhood did scar me, perhaps making this betryal more painful. I'm not saying this to be sarcastic, but it is one of my favorite bumper stickers of all time: "That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger...but it still sucks"! I'm sure you are still carrying the scars, but they have indeed made you stronger - strong enough to get out of a bad relationship. Good on ya, buddy! Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 While I agree that cheating is an extraordinarily hurtful and disrepectful thing to do to a person, I think anyone who has been physically, sexually, emotionally or mentally abused might beg to differ on degrees of "extreme." I've been in the BS shoes & believe me, it does indeed suck...BUT I've also been physically abused by someone who supposedly loved me. I have to say I recovered better from the A than the fists. Indeed it is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Since I was emotionally, mentally and on occasion sexually abused by Mr. Messy, I consider his cheating(and without a condom) an extreme form of abuse. STD's take lives and cause immeasurable angst and fear. I didn't have to experience that. I didn't chose to experience that. He took away my peace of mind. He abused my sense of putting a gun to my head with one bullet and pulling the trigger over and over. That's how I feel when I wait for the results of the tests to come back. The words faded from my ears long ago, but the AIDS tests just keep on giving and giving. Link to post Share on other sites
HsMomma Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Indeed it is in the eye of the beholder I guess. Since I was emotionally, mentally and on occasion sexually abused by Mr. Messy, I consider his cheating(and without a condom) an extreme form of abuse. STD's take lives and cause immeasurable angst and fear. I didn't have to experience that. I didn't chose to experience that. He took away my peace of mind. He abused my sense of putting a gun to my head with one bullet and pulling the trigger over and over. That's how I feel when I wait for the results of the tests to come back. The words faded from my ears long ago, but the AIDS tests just keep on giving and giving. I am so sorry, bentnotbroken - not knowing your story, I had no idea. Again, I guess it's all individual, isn't it? {{hugs}} Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I am so sorry, bentnotbroken - not knowing your story, I had no idea. Again, I guess it's all individual, isn't it? {{hugs}} It really is. I was blessed to find a great counselor and I am learning to work through most of the crap with very positive results. In a lot of my research, infidelity is being given a great deal of consideration as a form of abuse. Studies are still not consistent enough, but because it can cause PTSD, it is something to look at and study. I am but one person, not enough to change the masses and I vote abuse. Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedinkansas Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 I think that's a good saying - for many things in life. Everyone responds to, and or sees things differently. One may have a major melt down because of being treated what they see is unfairly in a supermarket. Where another who is treated exactly the same way - may not see it as being treated unfairly. One may crumble up a ticket & throw it on the ground thinking it's unjust. Where another, same ticket, says "oh well, probably deserved it" How people react to affairs, accidents, health issues, daily life, etc....all varies. So, DEX..Because my husband didn't have a melt down of mass proportions (like so many here have) because of my affair -And because he has gotten over it (like so many here can't) Doesn't make him any less a man, doesn't make him any less a human. Whether he had an EA or not -That's totally irrelivant. (He still doesn't think he had one - nor does he understand what they are - he says they were "just friends") It's just the way HE reacted to the situation. If I would have had my choice on how he reacted.....It might have been nice if he would have gotten a little pissed or even jealous about it ~ But it's just not how he is Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I agree, we all react differently and some people think it is no big deal to cheat or to be cheated on. From what I have read, though, the majority of folks that have expierienced infidelity are pretty traumatized. Sounds like you and your husband line up well, confused, in terms of the value you place on fidelity in your marriage. So, it sounds like you guys are okay with it and the relationship was not badly damaged. I think, however, that most people do not consider it a minor thing and find it really quite abusive. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Everyone responds to, and or sees things differently. One may have a major melt down because of being treated what they see is unfairly in a supermarket. Where another who is treated exactly the same way - may not see it as being treated unfairly. One may crumble up a ticket & throw it on the ground thinking it's unjust. Where another, same ticket, says "oh well, probably deserved it" yup, I'm sure you see people that have been betrayed as deserving it. why am I not surprised? and my comment about crumpling up a ticket meant I obey the law and wouldn't throw it to the curb.....as opposed to a cheater, they are going to the curb no matter what. How people react to affairs, accidents, health issues, daily life, etc....all varies. So, DEX..Because my husband didn't have a melt down of mass proportions (like so many here have) because of my affair -And because he has gotten over it (like so many here can't) Doesn't make him any less a man, doesn't make him any less a human. never said he isn't less human because of it....i said he can't have a melt down over what you did because he did it too. he'd be a hypocrite to get mad at you. Whether he had an EA or not -That's totally irrelivant. nope....its completely relevant...because like I said, he'd be a hypocrite. 2 wrongs don't make a right....but you didn't leave him over what he did, therefore, he can't get all up in arms when you did it. you stayed with him, he'd be a hypocrite to not give you the same consideration...even though another man entered you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedinkansas Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 yup, I'm sure you see people that have been betrayed as deserving it. why am I not surprised? Now who needs a lesson in reading comprehension?...I did not nor have I ever said that - at all! nope....its completely relevant...because like I said, he'd be a hypocrite. 2 wrongs don't make a right....but you didn't leave him over what he did, therefore, he can't get all up in arms when you did it. you stayed with him, he'd be a hypocrite to not give you the same consideration.... To me it isn't relevant. I suppose we could go back & forth on this issue all day. But the bottom line is.......This was a very long time ago. My thought process has changed since I have gotten older - Not wiser - Just older. I do think differently now about a lot of things in my life. I mostly speak here about what has happened in the past. (8-9 years ago when things all began to fall apart) Still don't think that an affair is the be all & end all of relationships. But IF I were to be in that situation NOW in my life....I may react differently.(I try not to think "IF I were in this situation, I'd do this....etc") Just like not calling Affair Dude back or texting him back. A year ago - 2 years ago, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. I'd have been all over the idea at talking to him again. Things change.....times change.....people change:cool: Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 yup, I'm sure you see people that have been betrayed as deserving it. why am I not surprised? Now who needs a lesson in reading comprehension?...I did not nor have I ever said that - at all! you said Where another, same ticket, says "oh well, probably deserved it" You implied it. Sure you didn't say it, but you sure, with an attempt at being subtle, slipped that in there didn't ya? Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedinkansas Posted June 9, 2009 Author Share Posted June 9, 2009 you said Where another, same ticket, says "oh well, probably deserved it" You implied it. Sure you didn't say it, but you sure, with an attempt at being subtle, slipped that in there didn't ya? You're taking the entire analagy/example out of context. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 You're taking the entire analagy/example out of context. So you didn't equate the person getting a ticket and thinking they deserved the ticket to a BS thinking they deserved to be cheated on? What was your correlation with that statement?...hmmm? Link to post Share on other sites
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