Having an affair with your husband's permission?

[ArdeaCandidissima]

Hello all -

 

So I grew up in the "monogamous-ideal" Dark Ages, but I have been hearing more and more about married women having it off with the worthy fellow of their choice - with their husband's approval. How does one make this work? Advice please!

[UCFKevin]

Are you insane?

 

First of all, so it's like the Dark Ages when one wants to be monogamous? Or is that just an easy out in your mind because you can't be faithful and you have to make it seem like everyone ELSE is in the wrong?

 

Second, how in the HELL are you going to bring this up to your husband without him potentially getting extremely pissed off and divorcing you?

 

I would never in a MILLION years agree to anything like this.

[jenny]

in many circles, it's not a big deal. if anything, it's taken as evidence of sophistication. what have you found on the net so far? i honestly think, in your situation, this might be the healthy way to go, providing it's alright with your man.

 

what do you think would happen if you approached him now? what would he say? what arguments for or against could/you he make? it would make an interesting argumentative exercise as well.

 

if you'd like, if you'd find it fun <which many would not, i know, but you might given your immense background in science> lay it out as a proof and see if it works.

 

i recognize this is all speculative at the moment, but if all parties concerned are experienced, willing, self-aware, and playful enough i can't foresee a reasonable qualm, though i am sure they are many i have not thought of.

 

and i'm sensing your heading that way in any event. suss out the romantic precedent for it <certainly many artists lived unconventional but successful lives, for example> as well as the logical reasoning and you may have a case to present to him.

 

this is not a forum that is generally empathetic to infidelity, whether ethically agreed upon or not, and i think they could roughly represent the common-sense sentiment about it. it's an excellent sounding board to understand conventional morality in that regard - if you want this, you might have to take some flack from people who don't get it, and it's good to know how to handle that. will the pleasure it affords is worth the bother of dealing with possible judgment from public and pain from your spouse, etc.

 

i hope you keep updating about it - and if anyone could do it, it would be you

cheers j

[Reckless]

I've read some of your posts (and replies) and know that you are an articulate and sensible woman. So looking at your question in a logical way, you'll need to weight the ups and downs of making such a decision.

 

Firstly, (and this is the question that frankly we all pose when faced with decisions), what do you get out of it? Well, that depends on what you'd be honestly looking for. If it's sexual release, there are gadgets for that. An orgasm is an orgasm but few women only see release.

 

What most women come to expect from sex is physical pleasure and release AND an emotional connection. No, not necessarily, heart on heart, but a sense of emotional and sensual belonging to ward of the loneliness. Will you get that? No.

 

Why not? Because any man that agrees to sleep with you, under your circumstances, without hope of a future together, doesn't care for your emotional well being. Such a man has no cards to deal, you have to come out feeling empty. You don't get what you went in for.

 

Of course you could forge an emotional bond with someone - it's quickly and easily done. But then, if that's the road you want to choose you're setting yourself up for more pain, confusion and ultimately the only way to avoid total meltdown would be to get out of your marriage. If you want to arrive there, there are cleaner quicker less destructive ways of going about it. You have, in the eyes of many, ample reason to call your marriage to an end an go and pursue happiness (and love and sex), why take the long and more painful route?

 

Okay, so far, you get the sex without love, you get pain.

You get the sex with love, you get pain.

 

What about if, as you asked, you get .. 'your husbands approval'?

 

As Kevin said, it is most unlikely he'll give you that but you know your husband we don't.

 

Helen is also right, established 'open marriages' do exist but they are are far from common, one book I read quoted the figure at 2-4% (with fewer than half of these doing it regularly, so we're looking at less than 1%). The break-up rate among couples in open marriages is (14% higher than couples that have a more conventional view of infidelity) so as someone once said, bottom line is "an open marriage is natures's way of telling you that you need a divorce".

 

Why would this be so? why is an 'open marriage' recipe for disaster? Probably because of the feelings of the feelings of jealousy, inadequacy, guilt and rejection that go hand in hand with such a lifestlye.

 

Look at your personal situation - you have already shared the difficult home situation you live in (and believe me I sympathize), but how will hearing your husband say 'yeah, sure go have sex with other guys, I don't mind.. I'll baby sit, you go have fun..' actually make you feel about him? Will that help you to want to stay and fight to improve the marriage or will it rather make you feel unloved and undesired by your own husband. What if he, desiring one of you at least has a measure of sexual fulfillment, bites his tongue and swallows feelings of 'inadequacy and rejection' what affect will that have on his emotional and mental state? How will that make your battle easier if staying in your marriage is what you want?

 

Sex is so much more than just sex - hanging around this forum you learn that. We are powerfully drawn to experiences that make us feel good and satisfying sex is the number one 'feel good drug', mess with sex outside your marriage and it's like saying okay I'll take a couple of shots of heroine, no big deal. Your marriage is broke, fix it or if you can't (and I understand it takes two to tango to that tune - to mix my metaphors), walk.

 

You will lose that game if you decide to play another way.

 

Peace,

R.

[moimeme]

Reckless has made a number of excellent points. I'd only like to add that do you honestly think that your having an affair would help your husband in any way? He is suffering from debilitating depression; I cannot imagine any way that your having an affair won't make him feel even worse about himself and his life.

 

If you want to replace the feelings he can't provide, then leave the marriage. If you truly love him and intend to remain by his side until he is well (assuming you are carrying out all the other suggestions to that end that you've been given), then surely you can manage to dissipate your sexual desires with self-induced orgasms. Have you approached him about perhaps taking part in terms of wielding the implements of pleasure for you?

 

This site suggests adding Wellbutrin to the mix of depression meds, among other strategies:

http://www.csa-info.com/articles/depression%20and%20sex.htm

 

Another bit of information about Wellbutrin:

In one study, 86 percent of people taking Wellbutrin had no sexual problems as a consequence, and 77 percent actually reported an increase in libido, arousal or orgasm.

http://www.ivillagehealth.com/experts/womens/qas/0,,242103_169330,00.html

 

This one has some suggestions to keep the couple connected

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/sex_relationships/facts/depressrelation.htm

 

Another article with some suggestions

http://www.sexualityandu.ca/eng/includes/ adults/pdf/article1.pdf

 

Really, Ardea, I think this plan of yours is a recipe for disaster.

[ArdeaCandidissima]

OK, I hear the predictions of disaster. No doubt you are right. I have never shared physical affection without my heart getting involved.

 

What I've found on the Net on sex-oriented match sites...amazingly, my favorite selections were those who ended up being too principled to have a fling with a married woman. Three so far if you can believe it. And another favorite ended up being a shocking liar who claimed to be single but of course was not. So my marriage bed remains undefiled.

 

I truly don't know how my husband feels about this "open marriage" option, although I'm quite sure he would prefer this over me leaving for good. And that option is getting closer and closer in my mind.

 

BTW to all - thanks for not lacerating me for asking the unspeakable.

[quankanne]

I've got a married friend who, with her husband, practices polyamory. This entails forming relationships with others (male and female) that can be sexual, emotional or both, but with the express permission/approval of your mate AND the partners you're involved with. On the one hand it sounds interesting, being able to "swap" sex partners at will, but on the other hand, it sounds like a recipe for disaster simply because of the emotions involved, no matter how much one party -- or all -- claims to be in agreement.

 

Frankly, I think the monagomy "thing" is an established ideal simply because it's easier to deal with those emotions on a one-to-one basis. It's just too complicated trying to keep up with with more than one person's feelings, and my friend has admitted as much.

 

The best thing to do is to talk it over with your husband about how he honestly feels about another person introduced into your relationship and take it from there. He may surprise you, or he may not, but at least you've communicated your thoughts and feelings with him, you know?

[dying inside]

I have been friends with and have just recently begun flirting with a fellow stay at home parent (I'm a mom, he's the dad, our spouses both work long hours in the corporate world), after all 4 of us sat down and finished off a few bottles of wine the other night. The high I got from just a couple glances and light flirting was amazing. My husband even said a few weeks ago (I haven't been able to tell if he is joking or not yet as we rarely talk anymore) that if I am going to *&$# someone that I should at least get it on video. My husband has brought up us both having affairs (that we should) and that we should try swinging as well. I have the distinct feeling that if I did have an affair (with anyone) that it would devistate him, so I certainly am not planning on it any time soon. However I could care less if he had an affair of his own, we have grown apart that much. He is a great guy, a good father, relatively patient, somewhat tolerant of my shortcomings (as well of those of our 3 kids) and he is my friend.

 

I could not see myself leaving my husband, ever, I see myself being with him forever, a long, drawn out, boring forever, devoid of passion or real conversation as no matter when he comes home he needs to spend at least 2 hours alone, don't talk to him, just give him his food on the sofa and keep the kids quiet. This happens every night until the weekend. Then he needs to sleep in as long as possible and go out and take care of his stuff (car repairs, volunteer work etc). Then I work Sunday, which he does not like, as he has to stay with our kids for the 8 hours I am gone. I am sick of only discussing how bad his day was and how horrible his traffic was, how tired he is and how much he needs quiet (read: go away and keep the kids away too).

 

I don't want to divorce him, this phase shouldn't last for EVER (I hope), but we have no love anymore. He said he was upset that I am treating him poorly by ignoring him (I can't talk to him in the day as he gave me hell for phoning and emailing him at work and he doesn't read any of the cute love notes I used to leave because he is tired, so I cook for him special dishes, I arrange date nights, which he cancels every time etc )and rebuffing his advances in the last few weeks (which is a lie as I never say no except when he asked during my wine induced hang over).

 

So what do I do? I take a deep breath, muster up every ounce of passion, fantasy, love, lust etc I have in me and I seduce him. What does he do? He lies there. Really, stiff as a log, dumb as a stick. He has this woman that he says is so beautiful and is his ideal on top doing her very best, pulling out all the stops and he lies there not moving, responding or ANYTHING for at least 20 minutes, when I give up. I roll over and go to sleep after asking him what is wrong, he says he is tired and mad and doesn't want to talk about it. OK. I know that he is pushing me away, but the thing is I don't want to mess around with anyone else. Not even my flirty friend. Sigh. I don't want to have sex with anyone else, I am happy flying 'solo', if you know what I mean, when it comes to sex, but I refuse to raise my kids without a father, however this is getting rediculous.

 

I don't know what to do, or what advice to give you either. Just follow your heart I suppose, think first, really hard and see what you need, is it sex, or the one on one attention you crave. I know that I just want someone to smile at me without complaining about something. I have tried very very hard over the years to change how I speak to my husband, I am now consistently, honestly, Donna Reed-cheery, I deal with my issues alone, as he doesn't really help when I tell him anyhow as he figures I am just adding more to his 'misery'. He has so much as given me his permission to have an affair, when we have discussed it hypothetically (I honestly don't think he thinks I would go through with it, and neither do I) but I would love to be more than chief cook, bottle washer and his babysitter.

 

If you have read this far, thank you, this has been theraputic to get it all out, and I still have no idea what to do, other than go out and see Matrix Revolutions with my flirty friend next week as my husband won't go see movies with me, he goes with his friends and i hate going alone. The plan is platonic, drop the kids at school, and the sitter and catch a 10 am showing. Wow, reading back on this I have some real issues with my husband. Uh oh. Any ideas?

[ArdeaCandidissima]

You ask whether I need "sex" or "attention"? Both!!!! Badly!!! And I feel like settling for just one might be painful, but somehow maybe less painful than what I am dealing with now.

 

I did read your whole post and am glad you got it out. I'll try to respond at greater length later. I am still running my brain as hard as I can to try to make my life work better. My best wishes to you.

[dying inside]

How long have you been married? We have been together for 9 years this Christmas, married for 8 of them. I never imagined that I would be in this position. I was thinking that maybe I am going through a midlife crisis or something (I am 31, and was too busy the last 2 years dealing with my husband's crisis of faith and life) DH (darling husband) called me a while ago to 'talk' (he is on a business trip and will be home later tonite). He asked if I was upset about last night, I told him not specifically, I just miss talking to him. Of course his response was, "Well, that's why I called, why don't I pick up some wine and we can light a candle and talk for half an hour after I get home (at MIDNIGHT!?). " I told him I didn't think that was good so late on a school night, and after us both being up since 4:30am. So he got upset because I was turning down his offer to, get this "Engineer some quiet time together". Engineer. Come home and don't complain, that's all I want.

 

Sad to say I am so looking forward to tomorrow, I see my flirty friend when we drop the kids of for school, I have a full day planned and I work in the evening so I won't see DH until late tomorrow evening. wheeeee!

 

I love my husband, I just don't get any of that 'zzzing' anymore, at all, period. I thought I could live with out it, until I actually had a taste again. It is so odd, it isn't even aggressive flirting like giggling, touching his arm, suggestive talk etc. Just day to day life without the stress of my spouse. I really don't feel guilty either. I haven't been happier or more optomistic about life in general in years. Heck, I even danced with my kids non-stop for over an hour today, and I can't remember when I last did that. Just a little flirting and I am flying, I actually feel alive and happy. Even when dh said that the kids did this bad thing or that annoying thing to tire him out when I was at work, I was able to look at him and say, instead of "welcome to my freaking world buddy" I said "You must be so tired, let me get you some water and rub your feet, and hey, at least they didn't break anything or start anything on fire <beaming smile of luv>." He DID quit complaining that night.

 

Hopefully you will find some flirtation to lift your spirits for a while.

[jenny]

i realize this is an unpopular suggestion, but i am persisting nonetheless.

 

here is an interesting link i just found. i do know people in these relationships that function and are happy. it's rare, but it happens, just like the 'friend with benfit' situation.

 

http://www.polyamorysociety.org/page13.html

[Lanapalace]

Hi, if you see my posts above, you'll see that I am considering the same thing you are, just for different reasons. A few years ago, I would have judged you as a horrible person for even thinking such a thing. But life gets so complicated.

 

Back in June my husband and I had an argument which led to him geting somewhat violent. I left for a week. When I came back and told him I was pretty sure a divorce was a good idea, he said, "have an affair if that will make you feel better!" He was willing to do anything for me not to leave. Why? Because he would have to pay out a lot of money? Or because he was trying to entrap me since having an affair could be used against me in a divorce and/or custody battle?

 

Just some thoughts to consider, but in my case, that's how it happened.

[brelynnda]

Originally posted by dying inside

I have been friends with and have just recently begun flirting with a fellow stay at home parent (I'm a mom, he's the dad, our spouses both work long hours in the corporate world), after all 4 of us sat down and finished off a few bottles of wine the other night. The high I got from just a couple glances and light flirting was amazing. My husband even said a few weeks ago (I haven't been able to tell if he is joking or not yet as we rarely talk anymore) that if I am going to *&$# someone that I should at least get it on video. My husband has brought up us both having affairs (that we should) and that we should try swinging as well. I have the distinct feeling that if I did have an affair (with anyone) that it would devistate him, so I certainly am not planning on it any time soon. However I could care less if he had an affair of his own, we have grown apart that much. He is a great guy, a good father, relatively patient, somewhat tolerant of my shortcomings (as well of those of our 3 kids) and he is my friend.

 

I could not see myself leaving my husband, ever, I see myself being with him forever, a long, drawn out, boring forever, devoid of passion or real conversation as no matter when he comes home he needs to spend at least 2 hours alone, don't talk to him, just give him his food on the sofa and keep the kids quiet. This happens every night until the weekend. Then he needs to sleep in as long as possible and go out and take care of his stuff (car repairs, volunteer work etc). Then I work Sunday, which he does not like, as he has to stay with our kids for the 8 hours I am gone. I am sick of only discussing how bad his day was and how horrible his traffic was, how tired he is and how much he needs quiet (read: go away and keep the kids away too).

 

I don't want to divorce him, this phase shouldn't last for EVER (I hope), but we have no love anymore. He said he was upset that I am treating him poorly by ignoring him (I can't talk to him in the day as he gave me hell for phoning and emailing him at work and he doesn't read any of the cute love notes I used to leave because he is tired, so I cook for him special dishes, I arrange date nights, which he cancels every time etc )and rebuffing his advances in the last few weeks (which is a lie as I never say no except when he asked during my wine induced hang over).

 

So what do I do? I take a deep breath, muster up every ounce of passion, fantasy, love, lust etc I have in me and I seduce him. What does he do? He lies there. Really, stiff as a log, dumb as a stick. He has this woman that he says is so beautiful and is his ideal on top doing her very best, pulling out all the stops and he lies there not moving, responding or ANYTHING for at least 20 minutes, when I give up. I roll over and go to sleep after asking him what is wrong, he says he is tired and mad and doesn't want to talk about it. OK. I know that he is pushing me away, but the thing is I don't want to mess around with anyone else. Not even my flirty friend. Sigh. I don't want to have sex with anyone else, I am happy flying 'solo', if you know what I mean, when it comes to sex, but I refuse to raise my kids without a father, however this is getting rediculous.

 

I don't know what to do, or what advice to give you either. Just follow your heart I suppose, think first, really hard and see what you need, is it sex, or the one on one attention you crave. I know that I just want someone to smile at me without complaining about something. I have tried very very hard over the years to change how I speak to my husband, I am now consistently, honestly, Donna Reed-cheery, I deal with my issues alone, as he doesn't really help when I tell him anyhow as he figures I am just adding more to his 'misery'. He has so much as given me his permission to have an affair, when we have discussed it hypothetically (I honestly don't think he thinks I would go through with it, and neither do I) but I would love to be more than chief cook, bottle washer and his babysitter.

 

If you have read this far, thank you, this has been theraputic to get it all out, and I still have no idea what to do, other than go out and see Matrix Revolutions with my flirty friend next week as my husband won't go see movies with me, he goes with his friends and i hate going alone. The plan is platonic, drop the kids at school, and the sitter and catch a 10 am showing. Wow, reading back on this I have some real issues with my husband. Uh oh. Any ideas?

[brelynnda]

[ Sorry about the reply..i'm new at this so I didn't add my reply last time. I am in this same situation with a male friend. He has his wifes permission to "play".I have been dying inside for a long time.....My husband and I have been married for 19 years, he works nights and expects me to wait on him every waking minute. I do all the work around the house due to his health condition. He has Lupus. He says it is enough for him to work 4 till midnight. I also work a full time job and contribute to the family finances.

 

I meant some people from on line.....cringe..... for the first time a year ago. I didn't look for it it just kinda happened. After a while it grew old and I stopped chatting, but longed for some gentle touch, something that my husband didn't give me, so I listed on a sight. Yes , cringe again ,a swingers site. I was chatting with a married man who said he and his wife listed. I meant 5 guys from the site. All I meant first to decide if we liked each other. Only one of which I would meet again in a private spot.I like this guy he is fun to be with and it was quote " no strings sex" unquote.

We have meant repeatly now for over 2 months. We get along well and I do get that needed release. I have since stopped chatting and took my name off the swingsite. I have kinda cleaned up my act since .........I guess maybe i'd say i'm satisfied. I know this won't go on forever ...but I can honestly say I wouldn't have missed it for the world. Tell me am I crazy......I didn't go looking for this....but I didn't stop it from happening. Faithful for 17 years..........

[Faerie Princess]

Polyamory, respoosible non-monogamy, open marriages and swinging are still pretty creepy to a lot of people.

 

But there are people who do make it work.

 

If it's something you really want to consider, the most important thing to do is be totally honest with yourself.

 

That sounds easy and it's not. Really look critically at what you feel, think and believe and why you feel think and believe those things.

 

I'd also advise working really hard on making your marriage solid. Ensuring good communication with your spouse, getting to know them better, spending time together sexually and non-sexually. If your marriage is shaky, opening it up will be really tough on it.

 

Also, the people you're considering engaging in relations(hips) with are individuals who deserve respect and happiness. Don't fall in love or lust with someone to use them as a tool - it's mean.

 

There are lots of good resources on the web that can give you insight.

 

I know a number of poly-folk who have had very successful marriages and outside relationships, judged both by longevity and happiness.

 

But it WILL change your marriage, your life and a lot of other things. It's also something that is different from the norm. Telling your co-workers about the wonderful weekend you spent with your "other" husband, or how your husband's new girlfriend's kids drive you crazy is really challenging.

 

It's not bad to want more in your life. But the first step has to be with you. You make your own happiness and satisfaction. You are in control of that. Other people affect you, but you're the decision maker.

[dying inside]

Well, I have told myself that I would never have an outright affair on my husband, we even discussed it this weekend. I asked him if he would want to know or not, he said he wouldn't, unless he could be involved (either by watching or 'participating') seeing as I am not into that, I really doubt that would happen. I was talking with my flirty friend this morning over coffee at my place (he came over so I wouldn't be alone while the handyman was fixing my apartment). We ended up talking about what we miss the most about being single, and we both agreed that it is the 'hunt', the flirting, playing and mystery that makes relationships fun. He is also having boredom issues in his relationship as well, his wife works long hours and is always tired and any time that they do spend together they spend with their son, as she feels guilty for working and leaving him at home with dad all the time. So they don't even go out as a couple, since she doesn't want to. I could see us flirting and playing for quite a while as neither of us want to wreck our families, but neither of us want to die without passion either.

 

I love my husband, I could never leave him, but I know there is a problem since when I kiss him I only think of kissing my friend. I just want to have some laughter in my life and to not be concerned with my spouse complaining about the commute or his back etc etc. I don't want to go for the rest of my life without that heartbeating rush that you get when you are flirting with someone. I will keep reading my books on relationships and try to improve things in my relationship, but with three kids clamoring for attention every minute and a spouse doing the same, it leaves little time for me.

[GuitarScho]

Having been the male half of a polyamorous (or open) marriage for about 15 years, maybe I can shed a little light on the subject here.

 

First off, there is a big difference between a "swinging" relationship and a true polyamorous one. Swingers engage strictly in sexual activity with persons outside their committed relationship, usually in a group or other closely controlled environment (swapping partners in different rooms of the same house, for example.) A polyamorous relationship means exactly what is says - several (poly), romantic (amorous) relationships at the same time.

 

For every (1 in 100, say) couple that can manage swinging/swapping, I would estimate fewer than 1 in 1000 can handle true polyamory. It is HARD. Bloody freaking hard.

 

Now, here is the catch. For a polyamorous relationship to work, you (as a couple) MUST HAVE ALL YOUR SH*T TOGETHER before you start introducing other loves into the mix. It sounds to me like this is not the case for any of those who are considering adding a playmate to the mix - that they are looking for someone to replace a missing element in an existing relationship, rather that trying to add to a currently healthy one.

 

Folks, this is just straight, old-fashioned adultery being discussed here. Understand me - even with a spouses/partner's permission, if this is an attempt to take a Fantasy Island escape from a relationship you are unhappy with, it will only damage that relationship further. I speak from years of experience, both personal and observed.

 

If you have the excess energy to pursue a playmate outside of your unhappy relationship, try to invest that energy into your existing relationship. If your partner refuses to cooperate (which happens, I know), you have a much larger problem to deal with than selecting a temporary sex toy.

 

And if you are looking for love and companionship outside your committed realtionship - maybe it's time to rethink your existing situation?

 

Just my two cents - feel free to flame at will :-)

 

- GS

[Arabess]

Ardea.....If you or anyone else interested in this poly-lifestyle DID get permission from the hubby (which is doubtful)...how would the guy you are seeing contact you? Would he come up to the door and ask if you could come out and play? I can't even imagine what the dynamics would be. What happens if you and your sex partner end up falling in love? What if YOU fell in love but he didn't?

 

Short of sharing bills and paperwork.....why does ANYONE stay in a marriage they are unhappy in? Divorce isn't a great answer.....but adultry isn't a really good one either. I'm not JUDGING by any stretch of the imagination. I just know affairs have a way of producing horrible sloppy endings for all concerned.