This is the one…the one you’ve all been waiting for

[Touche]

I'm willing to change my entire life for you, but you can't even trust me.

I have never given you any reason to doubt me, so why do you?

Wow, big time manipulation. Play the victim and hope that you believe him..Sadly you did.

 

I totally agree. He's a master manipulator.

 

He says what he is willing to do , but hasn't actually done yet, and expects total and complete trust based on what he says he is GOING to do. "But you can't even trust me..." Totally stated to incite guilt and manipulate you into doing what he wants. And that's to trust him so that you stop questioning him and he can continue having his cake and eating it too.

 

This guy's good. He's slick.

[sb129]

Audacity is correct, FoH. How dare you be happy about your situation? How dare you be positive about the outcome of your affair? Let this be a lesson to all OP and WS--do not come to LS announcing you are hopeful and positive and are going to end up with your affair partner. It is insulting to the sensibilities of the BS. You absolutely deserve to be flamed/insulted and called names!

 

Well come now.

 

FoH hasn't been flamed that badly- in fact I think this has been one of the more civilised threads on the OW board.

She at the very least considers each persons post, and hasn't been insulted to my knowledge. The only people who seem to be insulted are others who are bringing their personal gripes from their own threads to this one.

 

FWIW- fair enough, she is positive about the outcome of her situation, for now- which, seeing as its still "up in the air" is the best stance for her to take.

So I don't think anyones especially condemning her- most people are just saying that statistically the chances of the outcome being favourable with NO fallout on either side are pretty low, and to be prepared for that fact as a means of self- preservation.

Pretty good advice really.... not mean at all.

 

There have also been several people (myself included) who have actually confirmed that it is possible for a MM to leave his W for the OW.

 

However thats not where it all ends- quite often thats just the beginning of a new set of problems, and making the OP aware of that is also supportive- she can take it or leave it after all.

 

I like the way FoH is civil to those who have disagreed with her and remains positive without getting uber- defensive and catty. She hasn't resorted to insulting her MMs W either, which is commendable.

 

It would serve many of the OW on this board well to behave with the same dignity- perhaps then there would be more sympathy and support directed their way.

[carhill]

Is anyone interested in the OP's relationship history? I've been curious for awhile but thought it off-topic. I'm trying to get a finger on the combination of detachment (wrt the discourse here) yet firm hope and belief in those words I read from the MM upthread. It almost sounds cult-ish....

[tami-chan]

Well come now.

 

FoH hasn't been flamed that badly- in fact I think this has been one of the more civilised threads on the OW board.

 

I am not aware if there is a measuring stick for flaming--in my world, there are no degrees of flaming-either you are or you are not...yes, it's black or white

 

She at the very least considers each persons post, and hasn't been insulted to my knowledge. The only people who seem to be insulted are others who are bringing their personal gripes from their own threads to this one.

 

Yes, FoH has been gracious. I think that is part of the problem, she can't be broken! I mean, what is with all this positivity? It's not normal, FoH !

 

FWIW- fair enough, she is positive about the outcome of her situation, for now- which, seeing as its still "up in the air" is the best stance for her to take.

So I don't think anyones especially condemning her- most people are just saying that statistically the chances of the outcome being favourable with NO fallout on either side are pretty low, and to be prepared for that fact as a means of self- preservation.

Pretty good advice really.... not mean at all.

 

The way you have worded the above is neutral (it's not negative, not positive-it just is), non-judgmental and kind. Please do not make me quote other people's statements. YOU know as well as I know people have been mean.

 

Oh okay...let me give you two examples (there are more but who needs to read them again? I mean, really..). Is it necessary to call her delusional? That's pretty serious. I know, i know "just being honest-lol....AS IF....! How about telling her "her head is way up her azz?" Whoah, do we not have enough words to convey the same message without using that kind of language?

 

There have also been several people (myself included) who have actually confirmed that it is possible for a MM to leave his W for the OW.

 

I never doubted this possibility.

 

I like the way FoH is civil to those who have disagreed with her and remains positive without getting uber- defensive and catty. She hasn't resorted to insulting her MMs W either, which is commendable.

 

Yes, I know. It's very annoying to insult someone and then she just responds with a smiley !

 

perhaps then there would be more sympathy and support directed their way.

 

Only if you respond the way they want you to respond....

[SidLyon]

No no....nothing like that. There's just one little fact that I omitted.

 

When I spoke to his wife the last time, and she was telling me how she needed him around until her exam and asked me not to force the issue....I told her that she didn't have to worry about me. What I meant was "You don't have to worry about me demanding he move out." I remember thinking it was the least I could do for her. But when I said it, she took it as "You don't have to worry about me anymore because I'm out of the picture." By the time I realized this, it was too late. There was no going back.

Sooo...basically she thinks I'm out of the picture.

 

I know I'm not helping his case any by disclosing this....

 

Hmm ... so in answer to my questions; you cannot approach his wife (on the basis that you are his one and only) because she is under the mistaken impression that you have withdrawn from the competition. You do realise that this means that either just she or both of them could be working on the marriage (ie going to counseling, sleeping together improving communication between them etc) without you being any the wiser. In other words you are involved in a post d-day continuing A. These as I'm sure many OW and BWs will tell you can require the MM to take manipulation and deception of both the BW and the OW to new heights. This is certainly the case if either of them are still working on the marriage rather than just in the process of finalising it.

 

If this is your life (and I hope for both your sake and the BW''s that it's not) then you are all in for the most utterly destructive time you will probably ever experience.

 

For those OW who ended up with their men - did this happen to you that your man continued to deceive his wife that there was hope for their marriage after d-day?

 

S

[SidLyon]

Is anyone interested in the OP's relationship history? I've been curious for awhile but thought it off-topic. I'm trying to get a finger on the combination of detachment (wrt the discourse here) yet firm hope and belief in those words I read from the MM upthread. It almost sounds cult-ish....

 

Hi Carhill,

 

Where is this other thread please?

 

S

[NoIDidn't]

When I picture this moment, it's like watching a scene from a movie...makes me giggle a little now.

 

We were in a hotel room, standing out on the balcony, and I was just drilling him with question after question after question. I was all rowdy that night...tears rolling down my cheeks, hair stuck to my face, I was a royal mess. He practically had to shake me to get me to calm down. But when I did, he held my face in his hands and said something to the effect of this.

 

I am convinced that I love you more than any man ever has.

I am convinced that I will love your kids like they were my own.

I am convinced that our life together will be a great one.

I have a wife who loves me, kids that admire me, and friends that respect me.

But I'm here. With you. Ready and willing to give it all up.

I know you're worth it. I know it's the right decision....but that doesn't make it any easier.

I'm willing to change my entire life for you, but you can't even trust me.

I have never given you any reason to doubt me, so why do you?

 

I couldn't answer the question. I just stood there and cried. Then I cried a little more....and a little more.

 

That was the night that changed everything.

 

School girl giggling to the words of a man who would have said anything to calm down an over-emotional woman he was wanting to bed.

 

You even keep repeating his words as if they are true here: "I have never given you any reason to doubt me, so why do you?" Saying it over and over again doesn't make it true.

 

I asked you did you speak to his W, as in did she tell you her marriage was over. You said you spoke to the W, as if she confirmed that things were over between them. Now you say that you gave her the mistaken belief that you were backing off. I would say to you that she did the same. She gave you the mistaken belief that she only wanted him around until after her exams. The truth is more likely that she doesn't want to deal with the betrayal of her marriage until after her exams - not that she has made concrete plans towards a divorce.

 

I think its time to stop reading "The Secret" and take a good look at The Reality.

[NoIDidn't]

Is anyone interested in the OP's relationship history? I've been curious for awhile but thought it off-topic. I'm trying to get a finger on the combination of detachment (wrt the discourse here) yet firm hope and belief in those words I read from the MM upthread. It almost sounds cult-ish....

 

I think the OP has been reading "The Secret" and thinks that being positive means she is going to "manifest" what she wants in her life, ie, this MM as hers alone.

 

I forget what they call it specifically, but it does sound cultish to folks not regularly practicing such delusion.

[sb129]

Oh okay...let me give you two examples (there are more but who needs to read them again? I mean, really..). Is it necessary to call her delusional? That's pretty serious. I know, i know "just being honest-lol....AS IF....! How about telling her "her head is way up her azz?" Whoah, do we not have enough words to convey the same message without using that kind of language?

Well to be fair, I don't spend alot of time in the OW section, but from what I HAVE seen of it, "deluded", "ghoulish" and "head up her azz" are on the tame end of the spectrum of names that can get thrown around here.

 

"homewrecker", "desperate", "psychotic" "greedy" "user" "idiot" "frigid" "nagging" "b*tch" etc etc have all cropped up..... which I am sure you'll agree are far worse.

 

For those OW who ended up with their men - did this happen to you that your man continued to deceive his wife that there was hope for their marriage after d-day?

 

No. That did not happen to me.

 

However our R had many other problems, the main two of which were deception and mistrust between US most likely born out of all the lies, deception and mistrust that had gone on before D-Day.

[NoIDidn't]

I forget what they call it specifically' date=' but it does sound cultish to folks not regularly practicing such delusion.[/quote']

 

The Law of Attraction. I have a girlfriend that writes books about it. She makes a good living doing it too. But I tell her she isn't practicing what she preaches when she is selling a product (a product whose recommendations have never worked for her consistently, mind you LOL), NOT using positive thinking techniques and trying to "manifest" something out of nothing.

[tami-chan]

Well to be fair, I don't spend alot of time in the OW section, but from what I HAVE seen of it, "deluded", "ghoulish" and "head up her azz" are on the tame end of the spectrum of names that can get thrown around here.

 

"homewrecker", "desperate", "psychotic" "greedy" "user" "idiot" "frigid" "nagging" "b*tch" etc etc have all cropped up..... which I am sure you'll agree are far worse.

 

A frigid OW?

 

No matter. Name-calling is name calling..Do you not adhere to the purist stance of black or white?

[NoIDidn't]

A frigid OW?

 

No matter. Name-calling is name calling..Do you not adhere to the purist stance of black or white?

 

One thing I have NEVER seen on these forums is an OW say that calling a BW insulting names is unacceptable. Yet, people stand up for OWs all the time - for far less, mind you.

 

Its a shameful double standard.

[tami-chan]

One thing I have NEVER seen on these forums is an OW say that calling a BW insulting names is unacceptable. Yet, people stand up for OWs all the time - for far less, mind you.

 

Its a shameful double standard.

 

Really. I am sure there are. I do not know the story of most of the posters here, so I can't say for sure. But apparently you do, so I will just have to take your word for it. However, there are many former OPs who stand up for the BSs-boldjack, stampdaddy, Jj to name a few. Not good enough?

[sb129]

No- OW have called BW "frigid"... which, by your standards IS unacceptable. And NoIdidn't is right- name calling goes both ways but its rare for the BS to get defended.

 

The list I used wasn't specific to OW or the BS- its just names that get thrown around on this board.

So I do hope you refer to your MMs BW in nothing less than glowing terms TC.

[carhill]

Hi Carhill,

 

Where is this other thread please?

 

S

LOL, not yet extant....

 

Seriously, though, knowing her past experiences with men might help us understand the current dynamic better. With a lot of posters, I can read the "backstory" here on LS, but for her there is none. For example, the other poster, LakesideDream, whose thread I mentioned, has a long and substantial history here, so his thread about his MW can be put into the context of his relationship history. It helps us understand the psychology better. It also moderated many of the responses, as he had/has a similar resolute demeanor about his philosophy and actions. A good parallel, even if cross-gender. Perhaps a modicum of foreshadowing, as well.

 

Anyway, it appears this man has a hold over the OP. I've seen this happen with my own eyes, and experienced it myself, so I can appreciate it. It comes from somewhere, somewhere within her.

 

Hope it works out

[sb129]

I have also defended the stance of the BW and I am an exOW too.

 

In fact I rarely take the side of the OW these days, because I know firsthand how much the experience sucks the fat one.

[NoIDidn't]

Really. I am sure there are. I do not know the story of most of the posters here, so I can't say for sure. But apparently you do, so I will just have to take your word for it. However, there are many former OPs who stand up for the BSs-boldjack, stampdaddy, Jj to name a few. Not good enough?

 

Boldjack didn't come here as an OP or as a BS, as far as I can recall.

 

Its not about being good enough. Its about certain posters who ONLY stand up for OPs and NEVER the other way around even though they clearly can see a BS being insulted.

 

Its a double standard. A pretty blatant one too.

[sb129]

Just realised my posts contradict themselves..... as I said I don't spend alot of time over here.

 

but- namecalling DOES go both ways, I know that much.

[NoIDidn't]

I have also defended the stance of the BW and I am an exOW too.

 

In fact I rarely take the side of the OW these days, because I know firsthand how much the experience sucks the fat one.

 

SB, you know it doesn't count when you are a fOW. LOL.

 

And I'm not saying that it doesn't count to the BSs. I'm talking about the current OWs or those who will never disagree with that way of thinking and living.

 

I am certainly not judging them for their choices, but they feel free to judge everyone else for theirs. That's why a fOW doesn't count. They will call YOU bitter too.

 

Its clearly a double standard. They can call everyone else names but don't dare tell them the truth, the truth makes one bitter.

[sb129]

I am anything BUT bitter! The truth comes out with no bitterness here!

I just remember how PAINFUL it was to be an OW, and surely that counts in some kind of "bridging the gap" role?

 

I ended it with him! And found happiness that was free from any kind of subterfuge.

 

But hey, whatever.

It would be nice if some of the OW here learned from their mistakes and found happiness the way I did- I'd also like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony but it probably isn't going to happen.

[tami-chan]

No- OW have called BW "frigid"... which, by your standards IS unacceptable. And NoIdidn't is right- name calling goes both ways but its rare for the BS to get defended.

 

The list I used wasn't specific to OW or the BS- its just names that get thrown around on this board.

So I do hope you refer to your MMs BW in nothing less than glowing terms TC.

 

Ohhhh...the OW called the BW "frigid". I was going to say! Not sure how they would know that, unless the MM shared the info to them. My H has referred to me as "frigid" before...lol..I wear the damn label with pride when it's coming from him!

 

Oh absolutely! ...but I do like to use "pathetic'-its my label of choice. However, I try to refrain from calling people any kind of psych terms, or words that are in my world considered "street language'-"sl*t, c*nt, h*s, those are just way too difficult to er...process.

 

Anyhow, I think the OWs/OMs do not have many people on their side and usually bow out of posting because of the hostilities. The BS on the other hand have very strong and vocal defenders(current and former BS themselves)-strong because they have the er..."moral upperhand" and do not hesitate to use it.

[norajane]

It would be nice if some of the OW here learned from their mistakes and found happiness

 

It does happen, though. If you look at GEL's story, one of the OW who ended up marrying her MM, she learned from her mistakes (continuing the affair even after finding out a year into it that he had lied to her about being married, continuing the affair with no movement on his part out of the marriage). So she put her foot down and demanded that he treat her like she was number 1 and get a divorce. When he didn't, she dumped him. And after a while of being apart, that's when he finally made a decision.

 

It doesn't always work out that way, but other OW have also found happiness by getting out of the affair and finding a man who can be with them fully.

 

And others have at least found some peace by getting out of their affairs, as well as a sense of empowerment at taking back control of their own life instead of waiting for some other couple to decide how OW will live and how happy she'll be.

 

Some, like you, find that it's not all sunshine and unicorns when MM does leave for the OW, for many reasons. So the OW choose to move on.

 

There aren't many OW who are happy staying in an affair indefinitely when they're in love with the MM. At some point, something's gotta give, and it's often not the MM. OW do learn, but, unfortunately, it can take a lot of heartbreak, broken promises, disappointed expectations, and sadness first.

 

When OW come back to LS and talk about how glad they were they finally got out of their affair that lasted x years, I've asked more than a few times if there were anything that anyone here could have said to them to see things differently earlier and prevent some of the heartbreak. Usually, the answer is no. Each OW has to travel her own road because they aren't ready to hear what they don't want to hear. They aren't ready because they are still Full of Hope.

[tami-chan]

Boldjack didn't come here as an OP or as a BS, as far as I can recall.

 

Its not about being good enough. Its about certain posters who ONLY stand up for OPs and NEVER the other way around even though they clearly can see a BS being insulted.

 

Its a double standard. A pretty blatant one too.

 

I don't know how he came here...i know that he has mentioned many times that he was a WS many times over....but that's beside the point. All I am saying is he has defended many BSs and by his own admission he was an OP.

[sb129]

Well said NJ.... you are absolutely right.

[sugarmomma]

I can't believe she has gotten 346 posts in response to this nonsense.

 

He's still with his wife and that is the REALITY. No real action to show that he is leaving.

 

Just a bunch of hot air. I can't believe she fell for those lame lines he fed her.

 

Don't bite the bait! Oh well, too late for that.

 

Good Luck!!