I am sick about this...

[bentnotbroken]

Well Pelicanpreacher, I dont' remember that conversation. I spoke to my sister the next day and was told I told her boyfriend that. I don't remember saying YES to going to this guys house, and I don't remember saying NO. I remember waking up to things already happening.. then something happen that I remember saying NO to, it hurt and then I realized what was going on, I was still messed up, but a little more coheriant, got up and left the room... I don't think that the girl from my work was in it, she was also just as messed up. I think the guy saw us having fun, drinking made his move on my friend and possibly slipped us something. Then everyone knows what happen next. I don't know that I will say raped, but definatley taken advantage of!!!! I am meeting with a therapist Monday.. I am continually praying and seeking the right time from God. I am so afraid and pray for strength (if anyone else out there prays I need prayer!!). I can't change what happened. I get sick every time I think about it and I pray for strength to keep me out of a dark hole I keep wanting to crawl in because of my shame.... Thank you for those that try and understand. I can only pray my husband will even want to try..

 

 

I believe in the healing power of prayer. I believe God forgives those who ask in sincerity, repent and atone. I believe that once God has forgiven, those sins are no more and washed away by the blood he shed on the cross. I also believe that we no matter how innocent, unintentional or remorseful we are...we will have to face our actions(which I think you are trying to do) and deal with the consequences. It isn't easy(hell, one of the hardest things I have ever had to do was, admit, confront and apologize)to change behaviors and deal with the fall out.

 

 

I don't know if you are a regular drinker or not, doesn't matter at this point. Give some thought into evaluating past behaviors and see if there is a pattern, if there isn't, move on. Don't waste energy there. If there is, discuss it with your counselor. The fact that you know something is off, speaks volumes for your character. I don't sense a long term cake eating behavior here or a lack of remorse. You will be fine. It's going to take some time, some tears, some pain....but it is only through the rough times that our faith grows and our shields get stronger to better able us to fend off the next enemy. One day at a time. Let God carry you when you are weak and let his love guide you.

[tami-chan]

no. i'll never agree with continuing to lie and keep a spouse in the dark, as if cheating wasn't already selfish enough.

 

You can disagree all you want, it is still her decision to make. You can mock, insult, belittle her-it not going to matter, it is STILL her decision to make.

[JMC]

I believe in the healing power of prayer. I believe God forgives those who ask in sincerity, repent and atone. I believe that once God has forgiven, those sins are no more and washed away by the blood he shed on the cross. I also believe that we no matter how innocent, unintentional or remorseful we are...we will have to face our actions(which I think you are trying to do) and deal with the consequences. It isn't easy(hell, one of the hardest things I have ever had to do was, admit, confront and apologize)to change behaviors and deal with the fall out.

 

 

I don't know if you are a regular drinker or not, doesn't matter at this point. Give some thought into evaluating past behaviors and see if there is a pattern, if there isn't, move on. Don't waste energy there. If there is, discuss it with your counselor. The fact that you know something is off, speaks volumes for your character. I don't sense a long term cake eating behavior here or a lack of remorse. You will be fine. It's going to take some time, some tears, some pain....but it is only through the rough times that our faith grows and our shields get stronger to better able us to fend off the next enemy. One day at a time. Let God carry you when you are weak and let his love guide you.

 

Oh Lord.....

[bentnotbroken]

Oh Lord.....

 

 

 

Yes, he is.:)

[tami-chan]

one, he shouldn't have to be there to police her...she should police herself by not drinking at all.{/quote]

 

He shouldn't, but if he is ok with it and she needs him there because she feels safe with him with her, why not? It's not your choice if she wants her husband there and he wants to be there.

 

and two, no, I don't think he would, but if he has to be there to even keep her from going off with someone...whats the point?

 

I think she should go out on her own if she wants to but make a decision not to drink. But if she has to drink and does not trust herself, why not have her husband there? It is a good move on her to protect herself from herself (if that is the problem). At least she is acknowledging the fact ( and doing something about it) that she can't handle her alcohol.

 

If I was with someone I had to be around to keep them from cheating, whats the point in being with them at all?{/quote]

 

You are talking about OP as if she has done this several times. It happened ONCE. This is not a normal occurrence in her life-thus the guilt and pain. She found out, quite painfully, that there was a point in her drinking that she became out of control and therefore can't trust herself anymore AND she also found out the there are people who will take advantage of somebody so "out of it"---still it does not mean she has to stop going out and having a good time with her husband. She trust her husband, that is obvious.

 

Nice try pumpkin. I trust until given a reason to not trust. I never control or tell anyone I date, or even married to, what to do. they are grown ups and should be able to control themselves.

 

Pumpkin! so cute ! Reminds me of older relatives who used to call me that. Thanks! Anyhow, I find what you said above hard to believe, but it does not matter to me....if you say so, <shrug>!

 

And if they give me a reason not to trust them, then I'm not going to hang around to police them.

 

Yes, how many SOs have you gone through? I remember in the spring you got offended by something your SO said and she was going to be history, not very long after that...few weeks, I believe, you had a different SO. I get it, it's how you roll...and you got it like that...

 

but if someone finds out their spouse cheated, then there ARE certain things the BS would and should expect of their cheating spouse if they are giving them the consideration of forgiveness and working on the relationship....nothing wrong with expecting a spouse to act like a spouse and refrain from situations unbecoming of a spouse.

 

Absolutely. But if I was the WS, I refused to be punished for it forever or be reminded about it every single time there is an issue in the marriage.

 

again, why should her husband have to police her? thats saying, "hey, come with me so I can drink so you can keep me from going home with another man":confused:

 

Not police--if it was HIS choice to watch her, that would be policing. It's a matter of perspective. She is asking him to be with her..because she trusts him.

 

 

No, i believe that would be your implication...that it would be seen as controlling. your train of thought here, not mine.

 

You called them bastards-your word not mine. Was just asking

 

 

It was YOUR assertion of "holding this over" a cheating spouses head...not mine.

 

Because BS never do? ...lol....riiiight...:rolleyes:

 

But there has to be a small period of time where the WS is going to need to understand that if it is still fresh in the BS's mind, that a BS may say things out of anger because the hurt is still there. But over time, that needs to diminish if the BS vowed to work on the marriage.

 

Oh of course, that goes without saying. Just not forever...or for a long time....

 

however, if the BS feels drinking and partying need to stop completely, and the cheater decides that isn't an option for her/him, would the BS be perfectly justified in ending the relationship?

 

Absolutely. There is not agreement, so what's the point?

 

afterall, if someone has cheated on their spouse, aren't they entitled to whatever behavior change they expect in return for their forgivness?

 

Sure, but then it is up to the WS to also set her limits. What is acceptable of her. She is ALSO enititled to react to the reaction of the BS. Why? because nobody should have to live the kind of life that is not acceptable to them. There is such thing as "enough is enough".

 

I am talking about expecting the cheater to no longer go out to bars and drink.

 

Sure. If that is what they agree on <of course, depending if the H is told of the cheating>. Otherwise, if she decides to keep this to herself, well, she knows her husband more than we all collectively can ever know him and if she thinks he will be fine with her going to the bar and drinking WITH him, why not?

[tami-chan]

ooopppss...I screwed up the quotes..

[tami-chan]

Why would you ignore this advice ??? It points you to both forgiveness and resolution, pretty valuable qualities when one is in trouble. I hope you follow through...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I don't think, she is ignoring it....i think she is considering it.

[tami-chan]

I do not get the feeling this was a sexual assault. As pm said "I should have said no. But, because we were at his house, I said yes." There is no indication that there was any threat or coercion, merely her perception of prssure. And, the fact that she mentions she had the option to say no(the "should have" implies this) would take this out of the realm of non-consensual.

 

That's is not how she said it and you know it. You are twisting how she said it to make it worse.:rolleyes:!

 

She said:

 

I will honestly say I felt pressure and should have said NO, but I guess because we ended up at his house, I said yes?!

 

You "forgot" (yeah right:p) the bolded part of the sentence--which actually means that she was not sure whether she said yes or no, BUT since she ended up at HIS house, then she thinks she must have. Still, it doesn't mean she did, it just means she does not know.

[pelicanpreacher]

Well Pelicanpreacher, I dont' remember that conversation. I spoke to my sister the next day and was told I told her boyfriend that. I don't remember saying YES to going to this guys house, and I don't remember saying NO. I remember waking up to things already happening.. then something happen that I remember saying NO to, it hurt and then I realized what was going on, I was still messed up, but a little more coheriant, got up and left the room... I don't think that the girl from my work was in it, she was also just as messed up. I think the guy saw us having fun, drinking made his move on my friend and possibly slipped us something. Then everyone knows what happen next. I don't know that I will say raped, but definatley taken advantage of!!!! I am meeting with a therapist Monday.. I am continually praying and seeking the right time from God. I am so afraid and pray for strength (if anyone else out there prays I need prayer!!). I can't change what happened. I get sick every time I think about it and I pray for strength to keep me out of a dark hole I keep wanting to crawl in because of my shame.... Thank you for those that try and understand. I can only pray my husband will even want to try..

 

Well then the first thing that you must do is compare notes with your co-worker. This guy may have incapacitated the both of you not only for the purpose of raping you but may have already stolen your identities by rumaging through your purses, made copies of your keys, posted pictures on a website, and a whole host of other nefarious things only a criminal mind can conceive. If your co-worker feels as traumatized as you have been then the both of you must report this incident to the police and give them a complete description of this guy and what occurred that evening. If need be, bring your co-worker with you to corroborate your story when you tell your husband but don't wait too long for I have a bad feeling about what else this guy may have been up to!

[Reggie]

Reggie, is there anything in law as it pertains to PMs story that addresses the question of whether she was in any condition to give consent? If what she says is true (and I believe it is) it sounds like she was close to passed out when things got going.

 

iI suppose an argument could be made that she did not have the capacity to consent, if she was really drunk or drugged(for sure). But, in oreder to make a case against the assailant , one would have to establish that he or she was aware of the incapacity. If they were all drunk, that might be difficult. It would be very difficult to establish her actual state of mind, as well. I cannot see any prosecuter ever charging something like tihs out. Although she may have been pretty drunk she just remembers too much , IMO, to have been so wasted as to lack capacity.

[Reggie]

I think Pelican is on to something. You have access to your friend and can compare notes. If she has no history of this type of thing really did not know the guy, and is not the type to have sex with strangers, he may have slipped you something. Nice pick up, Pelican.

See what you can find out about the guy, too, by asking around. Maybe the bartender knows his M.O.

[Reggie]

That's is not how she said it and you know it. You are twisting how she said it to make it worse.:rolleyes:!

 

She said:

 

 

 

You "forgot" (yeah right:p) the bolded part of the sentence--which actually means that she was not sure whether she said yes or no, BUT since she ended up at HIS house, then she thinks she must have. Still, it doesn't mean she did, it just means she does not know.

 

Actually, I did not intentionally misquote her. Why would she guess at her response? Why not simply stick to the original recollection of not recalling. I would think that one would not guess at something as important as this.:bunny:

[tami-chan]

Actually, I did not intentionally misquote her.

 

Riiight....

 

 

Why would she guess at her response? Why not simply stick to the original recollection of not recalling. I would think that one would not guess at something as important as this.:bunny:

 

because people (ahem ) are insisting she must have remembered..so she is trying to make sense of it all...it's a normal.:bunny:!

 

It's ok to apologize to OP.

[schewter]

iI suppose an argument could be made that she did not have the capacity to consent, if she was really drunk or drugged(for sure). But, in oreder to make a case against the assailant , one would have to establish that he or she was aware of the incapacity. If they were all drunk, that might be difficult. It would be very difficult to establish her actual state of mind, as well. I cannot see any prosecuter ever charging something like tihs out. Although she may have been pretty drunk she just remembers too much , IMO, to have been so wasted as to lack capacity.

 

Good points...sounds right.

 

PM...have you compared notes with your co-worker and if so, what's her take on the events of the other night?

[showmethemoney]

After reading through this thread I have the following questions.

 

How are you so sure that protection was used? You already stated that sexual contact had occurred while you where blacked out.

 

Are you so sure that protection was used (and used properly) that you are willing to risk the health (or life) of your husband (as well as yourself) on your fuzzy recollections of that night.

 

I would say that abstaining from sex with your husband would be the most prudent (and loving) decision at this point. I would also get tested for STD's ASAP. I would also seek some kind mental heath advise to discuss what has happened to you.

 

Eventually the person you will need the most will be your husband and if he finds this out via the local gossip or a doctor you may not have him there with you when you need him the most. I can see this situation spiraling out of control. The OM has absolutely no reason the keep his mouth shut and judging from what I read he is most likely bragging like some high-school kid. I'm not saying you need to tell your husband right this minute. I do mean it about the sex though. Seeing a mental heath expert should allow you to get your feelings under control so you can think more clearly.

 

Good Luck.

[dobler33]

 

When I was in college, I was on a date with a guy I'd slept with a number of times before. This time he suggested he tie me up. For fun. I agreed. He then said he wanted to perform anal sex on me. I said I didn't want that. He apparently didn't care.

 

Talked to several friends about it who said "yeaaahhh...maybe that's rape." I, of course, just beat myself up for it for a decade and decided it was my fault. Do I, in retrospect, think that any of the beliefs I have developed about myself over the last 20 odd years relate to that experience at all? Do I often wonder if my sexual problems with my H have anything to do with that experience? Do I think that the fact I engaged in an A with someone who reminded me of the butt rapist is a coincidence? Do I wish I could afford therapy now so I could talk about that connection? Do I wish I had called a rape a rape at the time and gotten real help to deal with it instead of bottling it up inside?

 

Do you recognize rhetorical questions when you see them?

 

Listen PM, you got yourself there just like I did, and you feel responsible. And you also experienced coersion, just like I did, and you feel violated. I think most rape victims experience those things simultaneously. I encourage you not to try to "work it out on your own" which is what I thought I had to do when I saw my "friends" judging me afterward. I'm glad you have your pastor. I think your husband needs to be given a chance to help you through this too. But maybe in a safe space, together? With the pastor or a MC?

 

 

eyeswide, this was a really brave thing to share and i think it kind of got lost in the skirmishes. this is exactly the kind of case i'm referring to. thanks for your openness, and i think it might help PM to feel less guilty and alone. i hope so, anyway. much love to you.

[boldjack]

Jeezus, I leave for a day, and everybody goes bat-**** crazy. Prettymarie, You need to get your pastor, and maybe your sister together, and figure out a way of telling your husband, and tell him , the same way , you told it here. The reason for this is that the news of this incident is spreading, fast!! In the few days since the incident, 6 people , either know all or part of what happened. You, your sister, her BF, your Pastor, your co-worker, and the man involved. Soon, many more will know. Even with the best of intentions, somebody is going to spill the beans. If you want to save your marriage, YOU must be the one to tell him. If he finds out on the street, or from anyone else, he will believe that you were a willing participent, and that you were trying to hide what you did, from him. He will think that you are a cheater. If you tell him and have your Pastor and other family members with you, then he will know that this was not voluntary, and that you realize the seriousness of what happened. I would go with your husband and consult with a member of the Law- enforcement community, they will be able to tell you your legal options. I wonder if there is any way to be tested for signs of "date-rape", drugs remaining in your system? Consult with your doctor. This is NOT a voluntary, cheating situation. If what this woman has said is the truth, she was assaulted, and coerced into sexual acts, she was opposed to, AND SAID NO TO!

[dobler33]

Jeezus, I leave for a day, and everybody goes bat-**** crazy. Prettymarie, You need to get your pastor, and maybe your sister together, and figure out a way of telling your husband, and tell him , the same way , you told it here. The reason for this is that the news of this incident is spreading, fast!! In the few days since the incident, 6 people , either know all or part of what happened. You, your sister, her BF, your Pastor, your co-worker, and the man involved. Soon, many more will know. Even with the best of intentions, somebody is going to spill the beans. If you want to save your marriage, YOU must be the one to tell him. If he finds out on the street, or from anyone else, he will believe that you were a willing participent, and that you were trying to hide what you did, from him. He will think that you are a cheater. If you tell him and have your Pastor and other family members with you, then he will know that this was not voluntary, and that you realize the seriousness of what happened. I would go with your husband and consult with a member of the Law- enforcement community, they will be able to tell you your legal options. I wonder if there is any way to be tested for signs of "date-rape", drugs remaining in your system? Consult with your doctor. This is NOT a voluntary, cheating situation. If what this woman has said is the truth, she was assaulted, and coerced into sexual acts, she was opposed to, AND SAID NO TO!

 

hallelujah for some freakin sense, boldjack. welcome back.

[boldjack]

Thank you ,Dobie. You don't mind if I call you "Dobie", do you? So, when are you and Dexter going to have a fistfight? Can I watch?

[dobler33]

Thank you ,Dobie. You don't mind if I call you "Dobie", do you? So, when are you and Dexter going to have a fistfight? Can I watch?

 

(TJ alert - sorry, PM!)

dirty bastard. no, i don't mind you calling me dobie, it seems to be what folks have shortened it to. i kinda want to change the screen name, actually, as it is a link to former pining for the xMM - a "say anything" reference, one of those "our movie" kind of things. gawd, that sounds so pathetic now. must mean i'm out of the woods. is it possible to do that, do you think?

[boldjack]

Which? Change your screen name, or be "out of the woods"? I don't know, to the first part, a resounding YES to the second, especially with the proper road map, and a caring friend (Me).:)

[bentnotbroken]

PM, how are you this morning? I am still praying for your strength. You can do this, with help and support. Like Boldjack said, your sister and your pastor are excellent sources.

[prttymarie]

Hello all,

 

I am still tryin to hang in there.. I am nauseated 24/7, feel dirty and ashamed.. hate myself.. I feel in a bad, dark place and it scares me.. I am praying A LOT for the Lords strength!!! I called a testing center today, and they said I have to wait 2wks before the test results would be correct. So I am going to hold from any contact with my husband until then as well. I have not been to work, so I plan on calling my co worker some time this week and talking about things in more depth.. the last time I spoke to her, she could hardly recall much either so I don't know how far we will get. I am going to the doc today to see about getting a drug screening.. I don't know that anything will show up because of the length of time and I meet with a therapist on Monday.. Please keep me and my family in your prayer.. I am so scared and alone and hate what I have done. I pray for the Lord to show me the timing to talk to my hubb.. He has some emotional issues (anger, depression) and just this year we starting doing really well in our marriage again, so I feel telling him so soon will put him back in his dark place (he has threatened suicide with gun) so I am really scared!! I know God is in control and it will all work out, so I am just praying I will hear him speak to me when the timing is right. I plan on having support there, so I pray it will go well.... Thank you for your guys's advice.. Like I said before, maybe I can't prosecute rape, because I cant say if I said yes or no in getting there, but I know when I said NO things still happen so I kmow I was taken advantage of. its a double edged sword for me and I hate that I am here

[seibert253]

Hello all,

 

I am still tryin to hang in there.. I am nauseated 24/7, feel dirty and ashamed.. hate myself.. I feel in a bad, dark place and it scares me.. I am praying A LOT for the Lords strength!!! I called a testing center today, and they said I have to wait 2wks before the test results would be correct. So I am going to hold from any contact with my husband until then as well. I have not been to work, so I plan on calling my co worker some time this week and talking about things in more depth.. the last time I spoke to her, she could hardly recall much either so I don't know how far we will get. I am going to the doc today to see about getting a drug screening.. I don't know that anything will show up because of the length of time and I meet with a therapist on Monday.. Please keep me and my family in your prayer.. I am so scared and alone and hate what I have done. I pray for the Lord to show me the timing to talk to my hubb.. He has some emotional issues (anger, depression) and just this year we starting doing really well in our marriage again, so I feel telling him so soon will put him back in his dark place (he has threatened suicide with gun) so I am really scared!! I know God is in control and it will all work out, so I am just praying I will hear him speak to me when the timing is right. I plan on having support there, so I pray it will go well.... Thank you for your guys's advice.. Like I said before, maybe I can't prosecute rape, because I cant say if I said yes or no in getting there, but I know when I said NO things still happen so I kmow I was taken advantage of. its a double edged sword for me and I hate that I am here

 

The Lord's timing is perfect. He will make it crystal clear when it's time to reveal. Also remember he doesn't give us more than we can handle. You've been doing great so far. One day at a time, one step at a time.

[pelicanpreacher]

Hello all,

 

I am still tryin to hang in there.. I am nauseated 24/7, feel dirty and ashamed.. hate myself.. I feel in a bad, dark place and it scares me.. I am praying A LOT for the Lords strength!!! I called a testing center today, and they said I have to wait 2wks before the test results would be correct. So I am going to hold from any contact with my husband until then as well. I have not been to work, so I plan on calling my co worker some time this week and talking about things in more depth.. the last time I spoke to her, she could hardly recall much either so I don't know how far we will get. I am going to the doc today to see about getting a drug screening.. I don't know that anything will show up because of the length of time and I meet with a therapist on Monday.. Please keep me and my family in your prayer.. I am so scared and alone and hate what I have done. I pray for the Lord to show me the timing to talk to my hubb.. He has some emotional issues (anger, depression) and just this year we starting doing really well in our marriage again, so I feel telling him so soon will put him back in his dark place (he has threatened suicide with gun) so I am really scared!! I know God is in control and it will all work out, so I am just praying I will hear him speak to me when the timing is right. I plan on having support there, so I pray it will go well.... Thank you for your guys's advice.. Like I said before, maybe I can't prosecute rape, because I cant say if I said yes or no in getting there, but I know when I said NO things still happen so I kmow I was taken advantage of. its a double edged sword for me and I hate that I am here

 

PM, a rapist of this sort relies on this kind of convoluted thinking from his victims to remain safe from "Johnny Law". If you don't know whether you said yes or said no then you were rendered too incapacitated to make an informed choice. The fact that under normal circumstances you'd never let anyone that you know, let alone a complete stranger, drive your car when in control of all of your faculties is the tell that defines your state of mind throughout this incident.

 

Let this be a cautionary tale for all who would want to cut loose and let their hair down while walking about all "big eyed in the big city". There is always a predator lurking, watching and waiting for an opportunity to explode on your world like a nightmare the moment you get lost in your fun in the sun!

 

Rules to live by:

 

1) If you buy a drink then hold your drink and keep it close to your nose, mouth, and eyes. If you break this rule or leave your drink unattended then consider it dog pizz and never touch it again.

2) When out with friends beware the stranger's smile for there lurks a game you might not be ready to play.

3) Always lay an exit plan before you go out to be sure you return home safely again.

4) Be aware of what your body is telling you for it has no reason to lie. If the drink tastes funny then the drink ain't right. If your head begins feeling funny your head ain't right. If the person you're with makes your gut feel funny that person ain't right!

 

 

All feel free to chime in with rules of your own!