Reggie Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 How about offering to take a polygraph? This should appease your husband when you pass it. Link to post Share on other sites
stuckinoz Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 That H won't see it that way.. he will not think I was that gone, that I had to have said yes to something.. he has big anger and emotional issues (read previous posts) so he usually will get really upset about things before he has any type of compassion, and thats what scares me.... I don't want things to get out of hand. So I think I may need other parties involved to keep it calm. Wow - to live with someone that's THAT uncompassionate that you can't go to him - Who is supposed to be your best friend, your security, your lifeline. You can't go to him about this. I'm sorry Stuckinoz, this isn't like telling about a parking ticket. This woman was coerced into a sexual act. Besides her H and his anger issues, did you ever think that maybe it's kind of hard to discus such a traumatic event? Jeez!! GEE Really..........I"m not saying that even if it were "hands down" rape - it would be easy to talk about. I'm just saying that people that have spent this much time together (married) should be much more compassionate to their spouses. If he is a knee jerk kinda guy - then I suppose that having someone there when you tell him would give her some comfort. Maybe make him not quite as angry as she claims he'll be. BUT....Sometimes we are surprised by how people react - YES Even our own spouses - to certain situations. (I was 100% convinced that my husband would take a gun to my head if I ever left him - I left & to my amazement - I'm still alive...) Just an example. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Get that polygraph set up ASAP. Then, you can give him the exact appointment time and you can collaborate on any questions that need to be addressed. Try to get your girlfriend to do one, as well, so she can corroborate your story. Once you've passed with flying colors, it's on to civil court for the lawsuit against the guy ,and a meeting with the police to start their investigation. Link to post Share on other sites
cosmar9 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 It's really hard in this kind of situations, and mostly if you don't think that you will find understanding and compassion from your H.we are humans we all do mistakes it's not the end of the world and in your case it's something that didn't really happened with all your will(being in that situation). Anyway it is a big dilemma to tell your H or not to tell because you will not have peace if you keep hiding and second it may ruin your relationship with your H and maybe your family.It's a big decision with many implications and you really have to analyze mostly the part of telling him and release your soul. you just have to prepare him for the moment and choose the right moment but i thin honesty will be the best. Good look take care!! Link to post Share on other sites
schewter Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Think about how cynical and judgemental some of the posters on here have been toward PM...and you wonder why she has reservations about telling her husband what happened. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Think about how cynical and judgemental some of the posters on here have been toward PM...and you wonder why she has reservations about telling her husband what happened. Don't be so hard on yourself, schweter. I think you had good intentions. You might have eventually thought about the exculpatory polygraph testing yourself, given time. Thank God we have a way to help her, now and get the truth about this assailant out there to protect others. Link to post Share on other sites
schewter Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Don't be so hard on yourself, schweter. I think you had good intentions. You might have eventually thought about the exculpatory polygraph testing yourself, given time. Thank God we have a way to help her, now and get the truth about this assailant out there to protect others. Sorry Reggie, not sure I understand you...I was never hard on PM...so is that sarcastic glee...a sense of "aha" I'm picking up in your tone? Curious Reg...how many times have you advised clients NOT to submit to a lie detector test when you were a defense atty? Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 All the time. I'd never have a client take one.They are too reliable, although not admissible in many jurisdictions. Most clients are guilty. No sense confirming that.No upside, since it they pass, you cannot use it. But, since it is now a "fact" that she was assaulted, and the tests are so reliable, we have the tool to get the truth out to her husband. Cops would want a lot more, though. Most defense clients are guilty. So, Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Sorry Reggie, not sure I understand you...I was never hard on PM...so is that sarcastic glee...a sense of "aha" I'm picking up in your tone? Curious Reg...how many times have you advised clients NOT to submit to a lie detector test when you were a defense atty? Yeah, stolen from Chevy Case in Caddyshack. The old line to Judge Smails in response to Smails claiming to be no slouch at golf:"Don't be so hard on yourself, Judge. You are a tremendous slouch" or something like that. Link to post Share on other sites
schewter Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Yeah, stolen from Chevy Case in Caddyshack. The old line to Judge Smails in response to Smails claiming to be no slouch at golf:"Don't be so hard on yourself, Judge. You are a tremendous slouch" or something like that. You do illustrate my point however...if I came on her looking for advice and got the railing that some gave PM I'd be scared to death to tell someone significant what had happened. Neither here nor there...so what's a voluntary lie detector test cost where you live? Around $1100 here. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 About a grand. Well worth it to clear this up, don't you think? And, it may get a vicious predator off the stree, eventually. I'm glad we are on the same page with this lie detector thing, schweter. Let's hope she follows through and clears this mess up. Link to post Share on other sites
schewter Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Actually Reggie...the lie detector is a great idea, I've no problem with that despite your patronizing attitude toward me about it. (style in court?) I think you may have me confused with one of the previous posters who have come to a certainty of rape in PM's case...I think I was the first to suggest she may have been slipped something but I don't think I ever outright stated that she had been "raped". I do believe she was in such a state of intoxication that certainly created the conditions for her to have been taken advantage of...and I do think she has been treated pretty ignorantly by some on here. Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I don't think she needs to subject herself to a lie detector. She is the victim here. Obviously, something happened that she didnt have consent to. She was impaired. Somebody took advantage of that. Whether rape can be proven or not is not the issue, the issue here is whether you want to victimized her again by suggesting that she is a liar. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I don't think she needs to subject herself to a lie detector. She is the victim here. Obviously, something happened that she didnt have consent to. She was impaired. Somebody took advantage of that. Whether rape can be proven or not is not the issue, the issue here is whether you want to victimized her again by suggesting that she is a liar. It might help her deal with her husband. Sounds like she has doubts, herself, about what transpired and this should help clear those up, as well. Who is suggesting she is a liar? Just trying to give her the ammo in case her husband thinks so. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Actually Reggie...the lie detector is a great idea, I've no problem with that despite your patronizing attitude toward me about it. (style in court?) I think you may have me confused with one of the previous posters who have come to a certainty of rape in PM's case...I think I was the first to suggest she may have been slipped something but I don't think I ever outright stated that she had been "raped". I do believe she was in such a state of intoxication that certainly created the conditions for her to have been taken advantage of...and I do think she has been treated pretty ignorantly by some on here. Thanks. Let's just unite to get this woman the polygraph she needs and shine the light of day on this predator and his MO. Link to post Share on other sites
lkjh Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I don't think she needs to subject herself to a lie detector. She is the victim here. Obviously, something happened that she didnt have consent to. She was impaired. Somebody took advantage of that. Whether rape can be proven or not is not the issue, the issue here is whether you want to victimized her again by suggesting that she is a liar. I really don't want to get apart of this debate but I think it is to early to call her a victim. Earlier she posted that she drank and drank and drank. Then everyone starting swinging this to her being raped. I am not saying that she was not raped but if you look at it I am not sure if calling rape is fair. She got drunk with a friend, they all talked about a threesome, she went over and told her sisters bf, her sister was working at the bar and now she is in this horrible situation. There is a big difference between rape and regret. Also, $50 at a bar is a lot for a girl to spend, especially if her sister is the bartender. Then you add on the drinks that men bought them, the discount her sis gave her and all the other parts. The point I am trying to make isn't if she was raped, the point is that we need to not get emotionally involved with this and take sides. If we start seeing her as just a victim we may push her down a road that she can't come back from Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I agree with the above. This story is full of holes. Aiding her in beleiving she is a victim is not helping her in the long run. The polygraph should either confirm or undermine her story. Link to post Share on other sites
boldjack Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 How about we try to help this woman, instead of debating her guilt or innocence. Ikjh and Reg, you act like you were in a court room and were appointed by somebody to try this case before the court of LS. While I have the greatest respect for your "learned", discourse, this woman came here to find support in a difficult time. She is afraid, confused,guilt-stricken, and ashamed. I think we could do better than to try to take all of her dignity from her, all of her hope, and leave her with nothing but your "learned", opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I really don't want to get apart of this debate but I think it is to early to call her a victim. Earlier she posted that she drank and drank and drank. Then everyone starting swinging this to her being raped. She IS a victim. She was IMPAIRED-too drunk to make a sound decision to engage in sex or not. To have sex with someone in that state is WRONG. Now, whether rape proven , I don't know. I am not saying that she was not raped but if you look at it I am not sure if calling rape is fair. Fair to whom? She got drunk with a friend, they all talked about a threesome, she went over and told her sisters bf, her sister was working at the bar and now she is in this horrible situation. A conversation she didn't remember, right? There is a big difference between rape and regret Nooooo, really?. I think there is a BIG difference between consensual sex and having sex with someone too drunk to make an informed decision. Also, $50 at a bar is a lot for a girl to spend, especially if her sister is the bartender. I don't drink, but $50 seems really low. Then you add on the drinks that men bought them, the discount her sis gave her and all the other parts. You were there? you knew drinks were sent to them? discounts were applied? did she share this on the board? If we start seeing her as just a victim we may push her down a road that she can't come back from Like what road? Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 It might help her deal with her husband. Sounds like she has doubts, herself, about what transpired and this should help clear those up, as well. Who is suggesting she is a liar? Just trying to give her the ammo in case her husband thinks so. isn't that the premise when one takes a lie detector? one's word is not good enough and therefore one must prove herself? Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Exactly, TC. And, she has made it clear her word will not be enough for her husband. It matters not what I beleive about this story. The polygraph will help her convince her husband. Let's see if she takes one and how it goes. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 How about we try to help this woman, instead of debating her guilt or innocence. Ikjh and Reg, you act like you were in a court room and were appointed by somebody to try this case before the court of LS. While I have the greatest respect for your "learned", discourse, this woman came here to find support in a difficult time. She is afraid, confused,guilt-stricken, and ashamed. I think we could do better than to try to take all of her dignity from her, all of her hope, and leave her with nothing but your "learned", opinions. Would not a polygraph help her deal with her H, Bold? Who cares what I believe. She can take the test and verify her story, the one she feels her H will not buy. Is there some downside to this?(unless she is not telling the truth) Link to post Share on other sites
dobler33 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Would not a polygraph help her deal with her H, Bold? Who cares what I believe. She can take the test and verify her story, the one she feels her H will not buy. Is there some downside to this?(unless she is not telling the truth) your understanding of the legal validity of polygraphs quite clearly surpasses my own, reg. but my psychophysiological understanding is that the test operates on the basis of dermal conductivity (sweat production, pulse variations, etc), the theory being that a subject will exhibit physiological markers of distress when lying. however, i had thought that the reason these tests were not usually admissable in court is that the markers of distress can also be caused by the tension and fright of the process of testing itself - therefore the evidence provided by dermal conductivity cannot reliably be traced to lying as a cause. now take our girl PM, who is already terrified, traumatized, deeply concerned about the reactions of her husband, family and church community to this supposed transgression. it is even possible that her or her husband's physical safety may be at risk as a result of divulging this event. how could a polygraph possibly be considered reliable under these circumstances? what would be the purpose, especially if inaccurate results could potentially threaten the safety of the subject? Link to post Share on other sites
tami-chan Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I still dont think she needs to undergo a lie detector test...She needs to be able to articulate to her husband that she was not a willing participant and that she was impaired and how she is remorseful and needs help (from her H)to heal from this. Her pastor might be the best person to help her with this. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Those are good points, dobler re the validity of the test. She needs to find a really good, expierienced tester who can use control questions to set her baseline. The test are really well respected by law enforcement and, most folks taking them face similar stressors. Link to post Share on other sites
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