I am sick about this...

[tami-chan]

tami, one minute you say she was raped and the next you say she wasn't.

 

er....show me where I said she was raped? and I will put you on ignore as a favor to you !

About your example, if I was drunk and someone physically took coins from me then yes I was a victim of theft, but if I willingly gave the coins away(even drunk) then I am not a victim of robbery.

if you were drunk how can you WILLINGLY give your coins away? willingness comes with conscious decision and consent...

Look you can preach till you are red in the face but I wasn't and I' am not attracted to those girls. But you are proving my point, according to you being drunk is not a excuse and the person secretly wanted it on some level, so you are saying she actually wanted the threesome.

You did not prove jack. You are trying to turn this around. I said what I said because you and some others are alluding to that fact that she wanted to be in the threesome, if that is the case then you must have found those women (you normally wouldnt hooked up with) attractive and wanted to havesex with them so much you did the same tactic over and over again...:p:p!

Lastly, you really don't know if she was to drunk to make a decision, after all you don't drink and don't know the affects of it. All we know is that she was drunk

You are right, but then again why wouldn't you be? I already said that...this is what I said:

I do not know how a drunk person can work his way to anything. I do not drink and have never been around drunks.

I don't know why you feel the need to reiterate my own point. You're silly.

 

"Look Ikjh, you dont think she was a victim...fine. Do you think she deserved what happened to her? Why or why not? "

Depends on what you mean by deserve,

LOL..I remember someone who said that if someone starts there response with: 1) It depends on.... or 2) that's a good question.... it means they do not know the answer....and is buying time...

I don't know for sure if she is a victim. If she was drunk and made a mistake then your question ispointlessbecause she willing took part in something.

well..we have a different understanding of "willingness".

If this is just regret then nothing "happen" to her.

HUH?

Don't you see, I m not sure if something actually "happen" to her.

So you think she is imagining this, or she is a troll?

I am not about to say that women are so defenseless and mindless that anything they go through is because the actions of someone else.

Of course not, but the fact that you brought that up means you have been entertaining the very thought.

As a society we want to believe that women are always victims.

ahhhhh...lol...I get it....It's okay, ikjh, next time you get drunk and some fugly woman takes advantage of you, you can come here, and we will give you our virtual support..!

[tami-chan]

Tami, "oh,snap?":confused: WTF?..................

 

LOL..boldjack...it was my attempt in "ghetto-fabulous" language----as in.."OMG...take that!" ( i think that's what it means?).l...lol.

[boldjack]

Tami, That is TOO funny. I thought that you were trying to tell me , that I had forgotten something!

[lkjh]

Tami, you just like playing the blame game, if someone is drunk they can willingly do something they normally wouldn't do. It happens all the time. People get drunk a fight friends, they fight family, they streak, and they cheat.

 

Once again something didn't happen to her, she did this. If I get drunk and choose to drive home and hit a wall, I can't say a accident happen to me. The right thing to say is that I got into a accident. If I give away property when drunk I can't say it was stolen. I GAVE IT AWAY

 

By saying she is a victim that means you believe she was raped. How else would she be a victim?

 

You just want to believe that women are so fragile that they couldn't possibly do something wrong and hurtful unless something made them do it.

[boldjack]

IKJH, Your lack of compassion is amazing. The moment that PM said NO. at that moment it became non-consentual, and therefore coercive. What part of NO, do you not understand? It seems a simple enough word.

[HsMomma]

You just want to believe that women are so fragile that they couldn't possibly do something wrong and hurtful unless something made them do it.

 

lkjh - I don't think anybody here is saying that - I haven't seen anyone espouse the believe that women are such delicate little flowers that we can't make our own choices. And choices is the operative word here - she chose to say no when she realized what was going on & the guy perpetuating the acts chose to ignore that no.

 

That makes her a victim.

 

To use your own analogy, if you were drunk & at first (MAYBE) went along with giving some of your coins away, but then, sobering up a bit, made the choice to say no & the other person took them anyway, wouldn't that make you a victim?

[prttymarie]

wow.. I am really glad I did't get on this at all this past weekend.... I am glad some of you understand I am ready to admit I DID do something wrong by drinking. and 50.00 between TWO girls when drinks are 7.00+ a piece is NOT a lot.. I don't get discounts with my sister, so that answers that. To me that is meaningless information. I don't know how to make that night any more detailed to any of you because I DON"T KNOW THE DETAILS!! I don't remember having that conversation with my sisters BF, I don't remember LEAVING the bar, I don't remember letting some GUY drive my damn car. ALL I remember is waking up in a bed and things were ALREADY happening, I then remember waking up again to things happening, and then he did what hurt I said NO and got up and went to the bathroom!! I am still disgusted with myself, ashamed hurt and VERY SCARED. I see a therapist today and I am going to discuss ALL that I DO remember with her. I am continually praying! I have so much to worry, and now the whole STD thing is scaring me as well. I look at my hubby and kids and my family and cannot imagine my life after I tell of this horribel event I get physically sick just thinking about it. I know I am forgiven, it was a mistake, and I WAS taken advantage of!!!! but I don't know that My hubb will see it that way. Please keep me in your prayers...

[HsMomma]

wow.. I am really glad I did't get on this at all this past weekend....

 

Please keep me in your prayers...

 

Marie, I'm glad you didn't get on here all weekend either - it's gotten pretty ugly around here. I'm glad to see you're back, though. Also, I'm really glad you're seeing a therapist today. Just remember...breathe!

 

I'm keeping you in my prayers & in my thoughts...I know I saw somewhere on here that God never gives us more than we can handle. I disagree with that - I think He intentionally gives us more than we can handle so that we turn to him to help. Know that He's there & will help you.

 

As I've also read on here many times before, take what you can use from these boards & discard the rest. A lot of the posts really don't have much of anything to do with your situation - people getting off on tangents.

 

Just please keep us updated & know that things WILL work out. Take care.

[boldjack]

Marie, I think that the therapy will help you immensely. Just like when you talked to your Pastor. It always helps to unburden yourself, and get another person's help. You are slowly but surely creating a support network. You know your husband best, but maybe you are not giving him enough credit. If he knows from you , your Pastor, and your therapist, that you were the victim, I'm hoping that he will be far more likely to support you. You need him, to help you get over this. Have you talked to your co-worker about the events of that night, yet? I think that you should , soon. It will help you piece together what exactly happened. I'm pulling for you, PM. Let us know if there is anything we can do.........Jack

[Owl]

wow.. I am really glad I did't get on this at all this past weekend.... I am glad some of you understand I am ready to admit I DID do something wrong by drinking. and 50.00 between TWO girls when drinks are 7.00+ a piece is NOT a lot.. I don't get discounts with my sister, so that answers that. To me that is meaningless information. I don't know how to make that night any more detailed to any of you because I DON"T KNOW THE DETAILS!! I don't remember having that conversation with my sisters BF, I don't remember LEAVING the bar, I don't remember letting some GUY drive my damn car. ALL I remember is waking up in a bed and things were ALREADY happening, I then remember waking up again to things happening, and then he did what hurt I said NO and got up and went to the bathroom!! I am still disgusted with myself, ashamed hurt and VERY SCARED. I see a therapist today and I am going to discuss ALL that I DO remember with her. I am continually praying! I have so much to worry, and now the whole STD thing is scaring me as well. I look at my hubby and kids and my family and cannot imagine my life after I tell of this horribel event I get physically sick just thinking about it. I know I am forgiven, it was a mistake, and I WAS taken advantage of!!!! but I don't know that My hubb will see it that way. Please keep me in your prayers...

 

PM, here's my suggestion.

 

Take responsibility for what you know is yours...and ask forgiveness for that. For those things that were "out of your control", but happened as a result of your choices, you need to make a choice on how to deal with.

 

I know this is going to sound harsh, but I'm not attacking you...I want you to view things through a man's eyes for a moment.

 

Your biggest mistake was going out drinking with a single friend from work...when you knew that you probably shouldn't have done so.

 

Given that you believe that you only had a few drinks, it sounds to me like you're starting to suspect perhaps something was put in them to cause you to black out? If so...have you asked your single friend about the whole situation? Told her how you feel about what happened, tried to find out if the guy you were with may have slipped something into your drinks?

 

Here's the thing...this is either rape, or it's voluntary. I garauntee that this is how your husband will view this.

 

Either you pursue this as a rape case...or your husband is going to believe that this was willing.

 

At this point, proving it would be difficult, I'm sure. But if you choose NOT to do something about it, you run the risk of appearing (to your H, if no one else) as complicit...as a willing participant.

 

You've said repeatedly that you were NOT willing, nor did you have enough to drink (as far as you can tell from the bills...what does your sister say, your friends say about how much you drank?) to account for your blackout. The only other options are a medical condition or drugs of some kind.

 

You need to take action to PROVE to your husband that you weren't "willing" in this. He may well respond protectively, and try to help you deal with this and work through it.

 

Otherwise, he is very likely to respond negatively as you fear.

 

Yes, this is a lousy situation...but at the end of the day, these are your only real choices. The longer you wait...the more likely your husband is to doubt your word, and respond the way that you fear.

 

Stop waffling...take action now.

[lkjh]

lkjh - I don't think anybody here is saying that - I haven't seen anyone espouse the believe that women are such delicate little flowers that we can't make our own choices. And choices is the operative word here - she chose to say no when she realized what was going on & the guy perpetuating the acts chose to ignore that no.

 

That makes her a victim.

 

To use your own analogy, if you were drunk & at first (MAYBE) went along with giving some of your coins away, but then, sobering up a bit, made the choice to say no & the other person took them anyway, wouldn't that make you a victim?

 

 

Look I really dont wan't to get into a debate over what happen but I do think everyone here is treating the situation like women are not capable of making discussions on their own. Wanting to blame alcohol, date rape drugs, or this man isntead of looking at what happen.

 

I agree that if she said no, he tried, she resisted and then he forced it on her then it is rape. But according to her, she said no(before he even tried) and then he tried and she stopped it and walked away. If at the point he held her down and forced it on her I would be more willing to call her a victim, but she put herself in that scenario and was obviously in enough control to stop it.

 

As to coin an analogy which by the way wasn't mine it was Tami's.....If I offered the coins to the person and then decided not to give them and the person physically took them from then yes I am a victim. But in this case the man did not physically hold her down and force her, according to her she was able to get up and leave with out fighting the guy off.

 

Bold,

I never said I don't understand the situation, I even told her that if she feels she was raped she needs to go to the police. What I am responding to is the point that people on here are trying to build a case for rape when there really isn't any evidense pointing in that way.

 

I know that if a woman says no then it is rape, but let me ask you have you ever tried kissing a girl that intially said no? I am not talking about holding her down and forcing it on her. Her story seems more like a heat of passion sort of thing. But the part that throws it off for me is the fact that when she stopped it and walked away he did not prevent her from doing so.

 

Rape is a serious thing that is losing its affect because people now throw the word around in all different types of scenarios. Even ones that don't warrant the charge, because of people trying to use rape all the time, real victims are not considered credible. Regret is not rape

[lkjh]

PM,

I know I come off as attacking you but I really don't think I am. I think you got drunk and did something really out of character. I think you regret it and you are truthfully remorseful.

 

I think you need to tell your H soon, the longer you wait the more it will look planned out. You need to let him in, I am sure he is wondering what is going on

[tami-chan]

ok ,ikjh...I thought of putting you on ignore as a favor to ME , but then again, you are just to obtuse to just be allowed to mouth off all kinds of ridiculous things here.

 

Look I really dont wan't to get into a debate over what happen but I do think everyone here is treating the situation like women are not capable of making discussions on their own. Wanting to blame alcohol, date rape drugs, or this man isntead of looking at what happen.

 

Ok , so YOU want to blame her. I thought you said I was playing the blame game? ahmmm...hello? do you have a mirror in your house?

 

I agree that if she said no, he tried, she resisted and then he forced it on her then it is rape. But according to her, she said no(before he even tried) and then he tried and she stopped it and walked away.

Ikjh, I expect your next post to be an apology and retraction because as a matter of fact, PM said he did something that HURT. Now, according to your scholarly interpretation, she said no BEFORE he tried...really? Now why would something that didnt happen, hurt? That's a lttle strange , don't you think? AND not only that, she said NO and he continued until she got up and walk away , as she was already coming to her senses.

 

ikjh, when a woman says no...you don't try...you STOP.

 

I wonder, Ikjh..is that your interpretation of NO? you try until they submit to it...or until they can muster enough senses/ strength to walk away?..Damn, ikjh....you "gots" problem, my dear boy.

[lkjh]

Look tami, you are just bent on proving a rape case and nothing more. All you want to do is make women out to be victims. You do this on all post, and you are wrong. A grown adult woman got drunk, partyed with single people, talk about threesomes, then took part in one, and now she seems to regret it and you want to call her a victim.

 

this may surprise yo but you are not all knowing and people are allowed to disagree with you

 

PM, I am sorry if this comes off as attacking you, I just get fed up with Tami attacking anyone that disagrees with her. I will say it again, I am sorry about what you are going through and I hope you make the very tough and hard discussions that will be best for your family. Good luck and now all you can do is learn from the past.

[bentnotbroken]

Look tami, you are just bent on proving a rape case and nothing more. All you want to do is make women out to be victims. You do this on all post, and you are wrong. A grown adult woman got drunk, partyed with single people, talk about threesomes, then took part in one, and now she seems to regret it and you want to call her a victim.

 

this may surprise yo but you are not all knowing and people are allowed to disagree with you

 

PM, I am sorry if this comes off as attacking you, I just get fed up with Tami attacking anyone that disagrees with her. I will say it again, I am sorry about what you are going through and I hope you make the very tough and hard discussions that will be best for your family. Good luck and now all you can do is learn from the past.

:eek:No I'm BENT:cool:

[lkjh]

:eek:No I'm BENT:cool:

 

haha, that made me laugh

[boldjack]

Ikjh, You are NOT helping this OP. You are not even trying to help her. You are Hell bent on proving her guilt. Any"advice", you give is predicated on an admission of guilt. You cannot seem to grasp the mental confusion this woman is experiencing, the uncertainty, the terror. Does this sound like actions of a willing participant to you? If you cannot help, if you do not want to help, then why are you here? To pour scorn and bile on a defenseless person. My suggestion would be to go somewhere else, where you can savage a cheater, to your hearts content. Your words are harmful.

[bentnotbroken]

Ikjh, You are NOT helping this OP. You are not even trying to help her. You are Hell bent on proving her guilt. Any"advice", you give is predicated on an admission of guilt. You cannot seem to grasp the mental confusion this woman is experiencing, the uncertainty, the terror. Does this sound like actions of a willing participant to you? If you cannot help, if you do not want to help, then why are you here? To pour scorn and bile on a defenseless person. My suggestion would be to go somewhere else, where you can savage a cheater, to your hearts content. Your words are harmful.

 

 

***Sigh*** I'm BENT! NO one else can be Bent, without paying for the use of this special name.

[boldjack]

ikjh, If you have issues with Tami, PM her. I think that she is perfectly capable of handling anything you can pitch.

[boldjack]

Sorry, Warpednotbroken, I will try to use less expensive words from now on.

[bentnotbroken]

Sorry, Warpednotbroken, I will try to use less expensive words from now on.

 

 

Me warped, You have no idea.

[dobler33]

***Sigh*** I'm BENT! NO one else can be Bent, without paying for the use of this special name.

 

 

um, can i be SlightlyCrooked? or TiltingJustALittleToOneSide? i am in the market for a new screen name, you know.

[lkjh]

Bold,

I am allowed to give advice and interpret information in my own way. If you disagree with, then oh well. I gave PM advice that I think will help more then trying to convince her to scream rape.

 

My words to her are not harmful, I told her what I think is good advice and if you don't like it......well I really don't care. It's nice to see that you are in the Tami fan club but I am still allowed to give my own advice.

 

I told her to tell her H and if she really feels she was raped then to call the police. What part of that is harmful?

[lkjh]

if you really don't want me posting, stop trying to draw me out. I gave my advice to her and I was done and then your little lynch mob came out

[boldjack]

Ikjh, are you really that clueless about human emotions? If PM were to cry rape, would that satisfy you? Probably not. Then you would try to catch her in "inconsistencies ", in order to prove her guilt. Your bitterness is pathetic. Try to man-up, stop the passive-agressive **** and admit that you have not believed her from the start. Yes, I am a friend of Tami,(though I wasn't at first) but the more I hear from you and the other Bashers, the more I find common cause with those who will try to help a person in need, instead of those who would crucify them.