WHY NC Is Often Needed For A Sucessfull Reconciliation

[Soul Bear]

Feeding Time at the Zoo is back open!

You can now feed the bears as they have lost their appetite for human flesh again.....phew....

 

The following concept is NOT my own idea.

The idea was mainly used by the author to describe the fundamentals of any relationship as it is just setting off at its earliest stages.

I will however try to elaborate on it and take the notion further to explain why I think a certain period of NC is ALWAYS good for the dumpee after a break up.

 

 

So-ulBear with me here.

 

 

 

 

So you were once a kid ? Great ! I hope you had the chance to try those books where, on each page, you would find a multitude of dots numbered from 1 to whatever number the maximum would be depending on the complexity of the image.

 

Then as you grabbed a pencil and started linking the dots in order (1 to 2, 2 to 3, etc...) an image began to form on the paper very slowly.

Moreover, with every dot you linked your mind constantly tried to speculate on the final outcome. Always trying to be one step ahead of your hand.

 

If you were smart or lucky (not all of us are, duh!), you would sometimes be able to tell what the final drawing looked like even when you were still half-way through the process. But sometimes you really needed to connect most of the dots to guess what the image was. And once all the dots were connected your mind would just stop all its assumptions as there was simply no room for imagination anymore.

 

Let me elaborate. The author originally used this idea to describe how a woman perceives a man when she first meets him and why it is crucial to never reveal everything about yourself too quickly. But this can easily be generalized to men as well.

 

 

 

There are two things to consider here:

1) Every little detail you divulge about yourself is like a dot on the white page.

2) When the women is not with you, she will start thinking about you with the information she has at hand. This thinking process she goes through is so similar to that of a child trying to connect to the dots except for ONE TINY LITTLE DIFFERENCE: The dots in her mind are NOT numbered !

 

 

 

 

 

Thus the saying you often hear: Falling in love is not how someone thinks about you when they are with you but rather how they think about you when you are not around.

 

The dots are just there as information that's sparsely floating around in her mind.

So what she will do is that she will unconsciously start connecting those dots according to a certain pattern and guess what pattern we are talking about ? The pattern of the ideal man for whom she would ultimately fall in love in the blink of an eye.

Remember, this happens unconsciouly and this is why it is powerful. We simply do NOT resist what belongs to the unconscious and once we are aware of it (it is transferred to the conscious part of the brain) it is usually too late to go back and/or fight it.

 

 

The process described above is the one people in here call the "honeymoon period" during which you accept so many things you normally find intolerable in your partner, during which you daydream about them and you experience the sensation of "butterflies" in your stomach when you see them.

 

We all know the perfect man doesn't exist (ladies, I hear you shouting "oh yeah ! damn right he doesn't exist !" but, hold your horses, I meant the perfect person

 

So, of course, however the man turns out to be, he will never even remotely compete with the image she has built of him in her mind. He might snore at night , make a weird noise while chewing food or even fart at times , he might forget her birthday, become clingy, needy and desperate, etc...

 

Excellent but what does all this have to do with NC after a break up ?

 

Well, when a person breaks up with you (cheating and abuse excluded) they normally do it because somewhere, somehow they don't feel the same about you anymore. Over time, the initial flame dwindles as they connect the dots and, little by little, they realize that the final/real image of "you" doesn't match the image they had previously mentally formed of you.

 

The more you chase them after the break up the more you come across as someone who's trying to force his image (who he really is) onto the beautiful image they originally had in their mind.

Since both images don't match at all it never works.

You see, by the time they break up with you, they have already connected most of the dots and it has become so clear for them.

This is why you need to back-off. Because you cannot salvage the "old" relationship. You cannot modify the "old" picture they have of you anymore. You need to create a brand new one !

 

In case you are wondering why a lot of dumpers frequently move to a new relationship almost immediately after ending the one they were in. It is because they are on the quest for a new white page, for a new thrilling experience where the dots are still unmarked.

 

There are other reasons why they seldom date someone new, be it a way for dumpers to validate the fact that breaking up with you was a good thing and their life is now better or simply to mask the pain which, by the way, always comes back sooner or later to hit them in the face like a ton of bricks.

There's no avoiding missing someone if you once loved them. You can delay it but you can't avoid it. That's why most people here tell you to grieve for a lost one if you are the dumper.

As Winston Churchill said: "If you are going through hell, keep going". There is no way around !

 

Back to our main topic. What you need to do is completely erase the page where your ex had connected the dots about you all together or, at least, erase most of the dots in order to successfully scramble the image and render it unidentifiable. This is where "time" comes in to help you do that.

It is often said that, as time passes by, we tend to forget the bad memories and only remember the good ones. Use this to your own advantage !

 

Then you need to seriously work on improving yourself (not just for them but for any future relationship you might go into) in a way that the "final drawing" that represents you becomes a much more interesting/alluring one.

 

Once you have done this, and also used your time to heal and regain your self-control you can then re-engage your ex in LC. This is where LC helps you disclose information about yourself very slowly again and, if your NC period was long enough (usually months), allow the ex to view you as a new blank page that they need to rediscover. Thus the fact that people always tell you it's ALWAYS a good idea to start a fresh relationship with an ex and never resume an old one.

 

The last thing I want to talk about is the possibilty that some forum users will say: "Yeah but what good is it to erase most of the dots if the ex is going to link them all over again only to get the same old image they got the first time around."

You see, this is what happens when two people reconcile quickly without letting a good amount of time go by in between. The reconnected dots give out the exact same image and the end result is another break-up.

 

So it's simple. When you work on improving yourself and living your life while in NC instead of moping around and pining for your ex and waiting for them to contact you then you are making sure that the "final drawing" that depicts you becomes a completely different representation than it once was and guess what ? You will also have the advantage of already knowing what attracts your ex since you once had a full fledged relationship with them so you can use that when improving things about you during your time apart.

 

That's what personally convinced me to go NC for a (good looong) while before resuming with LC.

This doesn't mean you are guaranteed to get back with your ex. We all know there's no fool-proof method but at least you will have much higher chances.

 

 

You have nothing to lose except those bad, hurt,heartbroken feelings, you have all to gain back about yourself that once attracted such a person to you in the first place. Make Sense?

SoulBear:D

 

 

Have you noticed that when you stress too much about something & keep waiting for it anxiously, it just won't happen? This is true for everything in life. When you want something so desperately you won't get it. But when you can let go of your obsessive feelings & learn to care less about it, you will achieve your goal.

[playlislay]

One word for this Soul Bear -AMAZING!

 

I know my ex isnt coming back (boo hoo) but at least I know for the next one, not that Im hoping for a next ex............

[drummerprince81]

This is probably one of the best things I have read on here. Soul Bear - you are becoming a LS legend fairplay. As you obviously read my last thread, I've come to decide that NC is the only way forward. I have a million billion things to say to my ex BUT I cannot force these words on her, and I came to the conclusion today that if by the hand of God, somehow, today I got back with my ex because I made that extraordinary effort - she wouldn't be coming back on her terms and as soon as I do anything bad, or perhaps even fart in bed, she would up and leave again.

[LukeC]

I might only be 18 but i know your a tellented blogger, firstly thankyou for that information above its given me hope.

 

If you realised you had made the biggest mistake in your life by cheating on the only woman you loved and explained this to her and she told you she was willing to give the relationship another try but then cheated back 10 days later is that understandable and i probably got what i deserved!? She will of been hurt and angry or might it have been just to get one back at me?

 

Will NC for a while in this circumstance give a chance of creating a new 'blank page' for each other so that we can give the relationship another shot? Or will it push her away and encourage her to move on?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Luke

[drummerprince81]

Luke C - its impossible to tell. Thats the downfall of NC. Nobody has a crystal ball. I think the younger you are, or perhaps depending on level of maturity, NC works to your disadvantage because it is easier to move on and meet people when you are of a younger disposition, and since both of you cheated you could end up with a yo-yo situation. Whereas I think the older you get, NC is more likely to work to your advantage because opportunities to meet good or at least exciting people dry up. Just my opinion...

[CaliGuy]

This is all fine and dandy, Soul Bear, but I'm of the firm belief that once they connect the dots with you and decide to walk away (for women at least), that's it. They will still have a "pattern of dots" to refer to you by. Granted, some of the dots may disappear over time but the general "stamp" is there and they won't forget.

 

Women think long and hard about a relationship before they decide to end it. Trust me, when a woman gets to the point where she says "I'm done" they are done and nothing will change their opinion.

 

It's only when a woman breaks up under irrational circumstances (for example, if she does it over an argument) that a reconciliation is likely.

 

I'm not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, I am simply trying to put things into perspective so that men who are dumped will stick to NC and heal as soon as possible instead of clinging needlessly to unfounded hope.

 

Cheers

[Leveller]

Hey mate. I have to disagree. I have had two of my ex's come back to me and more than a few short-termers trying to get back with me. I always treated them well and there were difficult circumstances that led to the break up but...they came back and more than once.

 

More than this I know from personnal experience that women keep coming back to their ex's (in various time frames and for various reasons) even in abusive situations (why in this case beats me!!!). People change as do situations and people reflect and often reminisce...sometimes believing they left too soon or simply made a mistake or maybe out of comfort or curiosity. Even when only one party is pushing they sometimes get back together.

 

Short term reconcilliations are unlikely, and unlikely to last, but the longer time goes on the bad memories and the reasons for the break up disappear or fade. I have seen the most unlikely of reconcilliations occur.

[monkeys]

This is all fine and dandy, Soul Bear, but I'm of the firm belief that once they connect the dots with you and decide to walk away (for women at least), that's it. They will still have a "pattern of dots" to refer to you by. Granted, some of the dots may disappear over time but the general "stamp" is there and they won't forget.

 

Women think long and hard about a relationship before they decide to end it. Trust me, when a woman gets to the point where she says "I'm done" they are done and nothing will change their opinion.

 

It's only when a woman breaks up under irrational circumstances (for example, if she does it over an argument) that a reconciliation is likely.

 

 

Cheers

 

CG, in this respect I have to disagree with you. I have been following these forums over the past few weeks whilst trying to come to terms with a recent break-up/reconciliation and I do have to say that a lot of your arguments are grounded in reason and some obvious experience. However, in this case I must disagree and many of your posts (or, perhaps, when amalgamating your posts and determining the common theme or tone) seem to suggest to a certain 'jadedness', which I fear leaves little room for the possibility of considering that other alternatives exist from the conclusions you posit for most situations.

 

See, I myself am a woman and I have broken up with men before. Yes, I thought long and hard about my last break-up - but I also thought long and hard about why I decided to return to the relationship and try again. Indeed, I was the one who initiated the break-up - and I was also the one to return, to realize and acknowledge the way in which I had contributed to creating some of the difficulties we, as a couple, have faced, and to attempt to work together to rectify, or resolve them.

 

To suggest that all women would only return to a relationship due to the circumstances of how the breakup occurred (ie an fight) is an argument that refuses to account for the variances between and comprising discrete relationships. Granted, there are certain patterns that tend to play out during the process of a break-up - many of which you have accurately observed and pointed out - but none of those are definitive or universal or pertaining to every situation.

 

There are some women who, once they have split with their partner, will turn around and not look back. There are also some men who tend to follow this course of action. Then again, there are women who leave, take the time to consider what it is they are giving up (and what they are prepared to sacrifice in order to reclaim it - one of these things being their pride) - and they return.

 

Now that I have gotten to this point, I want to apologize for suggesting that you are jaded. I do not know you or your story and that is presumptuous of me. However I do suggest that you consider the possibility - however far-fetched it may seem - that break-ups do not always conclude in scenarios involving the absolute destruction of what once was, but that these things are determined by various things - including the people and the situation, none of which are ever going to be exactly the same as the person next to you.

[CaliGuy]

Hey mate. I have to disagree. I have had two of my ex's come back to me and more than a few short-termers trying to get back with me. I always treated them well and there were difficult circumstances that led to the break up but...they came back and more than once.

 

More than this I know from personnal experience that women keep coming back to their ex's (in various time frames and for various reasons) even in abusive situations (why in this case beats me!!!). People change as do situations and people reflect and often reminisce...sometimes believing they left too soon or simply made a mistake or maybe out of comfort or curiosity. Even when only one party is pushing they sometimes get back together.

 

Short term reconcilliations are unlikely, and unlikely to last, but the longer time goes on the bad memories and the reasons for the break up disappear or fade. I have seen the most unlikely of reconcilliations occur.

 

If they left you for someone else, that "pattern of dots" with you will be replaced by someone else. I question why they come back to you and not stay? Do you see a pattern with you and women in general?

 

What I am saying is speaking in generalities (because that's all we have to go on) is that women, especially when they walk away for someone else) are highly unlikely to come back. And even if they do, it's not because they realize you are "the one". It's because you fill a void they have in their life (meeting a need) temporarily until they find someone else to fill it permanently.

 

CG, in this respect I have to disagree with you. I have been following these forums over the past few weeks whilst trying to come to terms with a recent break-up/reconciliation and I do have to say that a lot of your arguments are grounded in reason and some obvious experience. However, in this case I must disagree and many of your posts (or, perhaps, when amalgamating your posts and determining the common theme or tone) seem to suggest to a certain 'jadedness', which I fear leaves little room for the possibility of considering that other alternatives exist from the conclusions you posit for most situations.

 

So let's view this with logic, since you're stating that you've been here a few weeks. I've been here for 4 years. I've read literally thousands of breakup stories here. I hope you realize that in the majority of cases, women who walk away from men (especially for another man) are highly unlikely to reconcile. There are only a handful of cases. Foxh1234's case is unusual in that she cheated and jumped right into another relationship without really wresting herself from the relationship with Foxh1234.

 

Other than that specific case, I have seen maybe 2 or 3 other cases where a woman has walked away and then come back and the relationship has sustained itself. If you can find more than a few, I'm all ears.

 

But the true test of whether my opinion is jaded or not is to simply ask the women here who have dumped a man (after careful consideration) whether they'd want them back or not. I'm willing to bet at least 90% of them would say they made the right decision and moved on with their life.

 

Yes, there are some regrets but certainly not enough to change their minds.

 

See, I myself am a woman and I have broken up with men before. Yes, I thought long and hard about my last break-up - but I also thought long and hard about why I decided to return to the relationship and try again. Indeed, I was the one who initiated the break-up - and I was also the one to return, to realize and acknowledge the way in which I had contributed to creating some of the difficulties we, as a couple, have faced, and to attempt to work together to rectify, or resolve them.

 

So my question to you is, once you left and came back, did the relationship sustain or did you break up again? Coming back is easy to do. Staying and working things out? That's much harder and much more rare in real life.

 

To suggest that all women would only return to a relationship due to the circumstances of how the breakup occurred (ie an fight) is an argument that refuses to account for the variances between and comprising discrete relationships. Granted, there are certain patterns that tend to play out during the process of a break-up - many of which you have accurately observed and pointed out - but none of those are definitive or universal or pertaining to every situation.

 

True. Human pyschology is never an exact science, but there are regular patterns than can be observed. My point is simply that when MOST women make a decision to leave, especially after thinking long and hard about it, they're essentially done with their exs. Your case is certain the exception (based on LS history) and not the rule.

 

There are some women who, once they have split with their partner, will turn around and not look back. There are also some men who tend to follow this course of action. Then again, there are women who leave, take the time to consider what it is they are giving up (and what they are prepared to sacrifice in order to reclaim it - one of these things being their pride) - and they return.

 

Again, this is very, very rare. Most women, when they make that decision to leave, have already lined someone new up. And once the attraction (being IN love as opposed to just loving someone) is gone, it's extremely difficult to get it back. I would guess that you never stopped being IN LOVE with your ex. That you simply had to work out issues that pushed you apart. It wasn't because you weren't in love with him.

 

I've always said that if someone is truly in love with you, they will come back on their own simply by the dumpee moving on with their life. That you can not make someone come back, but you certainly can do a lot to make them stop loving you (needy/clingy behavior, etc).

 

Now that I have gotten to this point, I want to apologize for suggesting that you are jaded. I do not know you or your story and that is presumptuous of me. However I do suggest that you consider the possibility - however far-fetched it may seem - that break-ups do not always conclude in scenarios involving the absolute destruction of what once was, but that these things are determined by various things - including the people and the situation, none of which are ever going to be exactly the same as the person next to you.

 

I don't believe that I said it was an exact science. I stated the circumstances under which most women leave a relationship and why, for the majority of cases, they never come back. I'm not saying they couldn't come back. It's the pretense under which they come back that I question.

 

I'm a firm believer that if they leave you for someone else, odds are pretty high they aren't coming back. If they leave you without having someone else lined up, then the odds are actually pretty good they may come back (because this more or less proves the breakup wasn't thought out long and hard.)

 

As I have stated many times before...women generally start pulling away from a man over time. (Weeks/Months/Years) before they actually pull the trigger. In that time they are distancing themselves emotionally. They become open to someone new. When they find someone they are interested in and have gotten to the point where they are no longer in love with someone, they pull the trigger.

 

This pattern can be found, repeatedly, in many posts that men who have been dumped have made on LS.

 

Cheers

[Soul Bear]

Wow, I never thought CG,Leveller and Monkeys could make me smile all at the same time

 

You are all right, but only to half the extent, each are equal give or take at one specific time. There are patterns to follow and rules to abide by, however, Im sure circumstances would have it that there is a rarity at some point.

 

 

 

This thread is not about winning your ex back per say, It's about winning YOU back so that you have the HIGHEST possibility of becoming the OLD, more mature you, MINUS the bitterness and resentment that will inevitably effect your long term character after a break up....

 

Bringing me to-

They will still have a "pattern of dots" to refer to you by. Granted, some of the dots may disappear over time but the general "stamp" is there and they won't forget.

 

This is very true, and if they remember most of the picture of you, it will be the good bits over time, unless they cheated on you. As we all know NC is for you to work on yourself. So you get the best chance at becoming the good you, taking away the bad a 'need to work on myself' parts, and replacing them with more, good things about you.

Giving your ex a fresh perspective on you. Or 'a new join the dots' with a similar theme as the one she fell in love with before

 

 

 

 

That way, IF...big IF, they should ever want to come back, you have the best chance of A) Having the strength to say NO, and be 100% confident in who you are, you might be in a better place to JUDGE what you want.

 

B) Be in the best place possible to work on a reconciliation.

But usually when 'B' happens, you have grown, and they have not. You get tired of their faults, which you seemed to 'put up with' in the R. and end up leaving them.

 

You never know, in NC you might say 'hey! I dont want that back actually, I want someone else'

[CaliGuy]

This thread is not about winning your ex back per say, It's about winning YOU back so that you have the HIGHEST possibility of becoming the OLD, more mature you, MINUS the bitterness and resentment that will inevitably effect your long term character after a break up....

 

That's essentially what my "So you want a second chance?!" thread (in my signature) is about. Not about winning them back, winning your self respect back.

 

Cheers, mate.

[Soul Bear]

That's essentially what my "So you want a second chance?!" thread (in my signature) is about. Not about winning them back, winning your self respect back.

 

Cheers, mate.

I didnt know, as I have not read it, sorry.

 

Nothing wrong with having another 'type' of writing on the same subject about is there?

Everyones brains works differently. Some think in pictures and some thing in words.

Im just painting a picture

 

cheers yourself

[Leveller]

If they left you for someone else, that "pattern of dots" with you will be replaced by someone else. I question why they come back to you and not stay? Do you see a pattern with you and women in general?

 

No woman has ever left me for someone else.

 

Even in the last case we split up mutually and I have always said to her it was the right thing to happen.

 

I was fed up and so was she for about two months. Towards the end I did a supreme job in suffocating her-she told me so at the time and I didn't listen. In this case our split had far more to do with adverse changes to my circumstances than anything else, circumstances I couldn't deal with it at the time. Trust me on this. Being an unemployed PhD ain't a lot of fun and I was very down on myself and pissed off with life in general.

 

As to why they came back and didn't stay. Well in the first instance (a second chance) we had, in contrast to the first time around, an almost non-existent sex life for gynocological reasons. The emotional side was still there though...as late as last March when I first got with my current ex we still loved each other (but not 'in love' by any stretch of the imagination). Her parents always thought we would get married.

 

The second case was more 'straightforward'. She had to move away for work and things had fizzled out by then (this was a two year relationship with, I hate to say it, a married woman in a platonic marriage). So I am not whiter than white by any stretch. Again though this was mutual.

 

I can only reiterate what I have said across this forum, but in many of the things you have said I think you are absolutely right, that reconcilliations do happen...more frequently than you seem to think that's all. Just my experience (and we are pretty close in age:eek:).

[drummerprince81]

I read somewhere yesterday about the peak of loneliness being after 3-4 weeks and that your ex will be in contact, because they will be thinking about all the good times...foolishly, I bought one of those "get your ex back" books. Now, for me, when my ex broke up with me, weeks 2-4, I didn't hear a peep from her, plus it was in week 4 when she removed me from her relationship status on Facebook. So I'm kinda ****** off at reading that book and telling me that, coz it is not person specific and my ex can be quite a lonely person any time of the year, and heck she is proud/naturally stubborn. I had to contact her in week 4, and got a lame response as if she had moved on already. In fact, I think NC allowed her to move on quickly. But I personally believe that she will miss me more as time goes on.

 

I think TIME is paramount and I've realised now that I really do have to bide my time, and as hard as it is put her out of my mind, but also not waste time. What I guess I'm saying and I'm agreeing with Leveller is that there are NO set rules, guidelines, protocols, conclusions. Life is full of mystery. The only thing that is guaranteed is human behaviour; we are coded by our genetics and we all know our ex' behaviour patterns better than anyone else and that is why we personally know if there is hope, or if we have a chance or not, despite all the evidence to the contrary, its perhaps how we go about it:- NC/LC or contact...and I also think demographics are important. If you live in a city, it is easy to disappear into the distance but I live in a suburban area where the opportunity to meet real quality people is difficult and this applies to me and my ex...

[CaliGuy]

I can only reiterate what I have said across this forum, but in many of the things you have said I think you are absolutely right, that reconcilliations do happen...more frequently than you seem to think that's all. Just my experience (and we are pretty close in age ).

 

I think maybe our definition of "reconciliation" is different. For me a reconciliation is an earnest and straightforward desire/effort by BOTH to reconcile. Not for a month or three but much longer. If you read many of the posts here where there was a reconcilliation, it was very brief. I don't doubt that they happen I just don't believe they are successful or happen quite that often unless there are mitigating circumstances (such as breaking up over a fight vs them leaving for someone else).

 

foolishly, I bought one of those "get your ex back" books. Now, for me, when my ex broke up with me, weeks 2-4, I didn't hear a peep from her, plus it was in week 4 when she removed me from her relationship status on Facebook. So I'm kinda ****** off at reading that book and telling me that, coz it is not person specific and my ex can be quite a lonely person any time of the year, and heck she is proud/naturally stubborn.

 

One thing you must remember about those "Win your Ex Back!" books. They are primarily written to make money and they feed off the basic desire of all people: To be loved by the one's we love. There is some sound psychology mixed in with fairy dust and sprinkles.

 

In other words, those books promise more than they can deliver because those books work on the assumption that you have much more control over the relationship than you really do. Fact is, we have ZERO control over the relationship. If our S/Os want to walk away there's nothing you, I or any psychobabble book is going to do about.

 

There are "tricks" in those books (kind of like David DeAngelo's tripe!) that focus on patching a gaping wound with band-aid fixes. This is not the way to get healthy and to have a happy, successful relationship. The problem isn't your ex not loving you.

 

The problem is YOU.

 

And by that I mean, why don't you (us/we/etc) love and respect ourselves enough to say "Hey if he/she doesn't want me, that's fine. I don't need him/her in my life!" And not just that but simply knowing that we're good people, worthy of being loved and that if we just take care of ourselves, the right person will come along.

 

It's almost the "indifferent" attitude towards someone who would walk away that not only drives them nuts, but it empowers us. How dare we not get angry or mad or beg or plead?

 

We can do it because we love and respect ourselves as much as we love and respect our exs. Like I have said many times, relationships are built on the foundation of respect. Respect for ourselves and respect for them. If respect doesn't exist, there is no foundation for a relationship to stand.

 

Took me a long time to grasp that concept but it's worked wonders for me. For my confidence and self-esteem. Not to prove jack to any of my exs (and yes, they've left me for others, I’m not ashamed to admit it because in both cases, they still poke their heads into my life sniffing around. They know they had a good thing and $%^&ed it up!)

 

But to prove it to myself.

[Leveller]

I think maybe our definition of "reconciliation" is different. For me a reconciliation is an earnest and straightforward desire/effort by BOTH to reconcile. Not for a month or three but much longer.

 

And by that I mean, why don't you (us/we/etc) love and respect ourselves enough to say "Hey if he/she doesn't want me, that's fine. I don't need him/her in my life!" And not just that but simply knowing that we're good people, worthy of being loved and that if we just take care of ourselves, the right person will come along.

 

 

I don't think our definitions of reconcilliation is different. They were both earnest and had effort put in by both sides. They just didn't work but I'm glad I had second chances in both cases...both of us were.

 

As for your second point I would not recomend that you apply for a job as a marriage guidence councillor as you seem to imply that working at a relationship that has difficulties is not worth the effort. I am perhaps reading too much negativity into your posts and I genuinely don't wish to offend.

[CaliGuy]

I don't think our definitions of reconcilliation is different. They were both earnest and had effort put in by both sides. They just didn't work but I'm glad I had second chances in both cases...both of us were.

 

How long did the second chance last?

 

As for your second point I would not recomend that you apply for a job as a marriage guidence councillor as you seem to imply that working at a relationship that has difficulties is not worth the effort. I am perhaps reading too much negativity into your posts and I genuinely don't wish to offend.

 

Heh, no worries. I am not a marriage counselor nor would I want to be, but I do believe in "tough love" because what is literally destroying people here on LS is the "false hope" of a second chance. I've said it a million times that the more you want a second chance, the least likely it is to happen and there are some deeply rooted psychological issues behind that statement (mostly because the more you want it, the more you'll toss your self-respect aside to try and get it and end up accomplishing the exact opposite of what you wanted).

 

All relationships have difficulties. If it gets to the point that one person says "I've had enough and I don't want this anymore..." then you don't really have a relationship. It takes two to have a relationship, correct? So my point is simply to love and respect yourself and then you will know the right way you should go.

[Leveller]

How long did the second chance last?

 

 

 

Heh, no worries. I am not a marriage counselor nor would I want to be, but I do believe in "tough love" because what is literally destroying people here on LS is the "false hope" of a second chance. I've said it a million times that the more you want a second chance, the least likely it is to happen and there are some deeply rooted psychological issues behind that statement (mostly because the more you want it, the more you'll toss your self-respect aside to try and get it and end up accomplishing the exact opposite of what you wanted).

 

All relationships have difficulties. If it gets to the point that one person says "I've had enough and I don't want this anymore..." then you don't really have a relationship. It takes two to have a relationship, correct? So my point is simply to love and respect yourself and then you will know the right way you should go.

 

Hey fella, I wouldn't want to be a marriage councellor either.

 

In the first case we went out about 9 months initially (she miscarried during this time), 1 month about six months later, the third time around 6 months and the last time (just before I met my current ex) about 5 months 'as friends(ish).

 

The second time we reconcilled for well over a year and had some really good times which I wouldn't change for the world. I probably would have stayed with her IF she wasn't married (a platonic marriage with an 'arrangement').

 

Yes it takes two to make a relationship work and your right about the respect issue. I lost my self respect pretty much when I lost my job last October...or it least it started going into a massive nosedive before Christmas after I spoke at a major conference at US STRATCOM and had to sign at my local unemployment office 2 days later. This was external to the relationship (circumstances in other words) and I was locked in high intensity work mode till about April this year. I got pretty ****ed up pychologically in other words and was terrifically frustrated having worked so hard to get Dr before my name.

 

I am a much more relaxed and laid back person now hence why my ex said 'If you were like you are now we would never have finished'. I still became a doormat though in the process whilst suffocating her with my neediness. ALL these things are down to ME and my declining self esteem which is where we agree.

 

Where I will respectfully disagree is what I would term your over emphasis on walking away too soon without a fight through pride for want of a better word. I was, and still am, prepared to fight for my ex (I would imagine you are shaking your head repeatedly at this point screaming for ****'s sake WHY?) but there is a right and wrong way to do it. Just to be clear any potential reconcilliation is, at the very least, months down the road.

 

I know you went through the mill as I have having read your original/subsequent posts and as a result I can see where you are coming from. I followed your pattern as well to varying degrees BUT, and this is where we part, I don't regret the majority of my actions because I at least have got to the point where she could see positive changes and wanted to be around me again and I believe, despite what she subsequently said, gave considered thought to giving us another go a few weeks ago-I think you know the saga. Like I said in my thread though although she wanted the FWB and see how things go-I said no more 'Mr Doormat' and told her again how I felt about her and why I was going NC. I realised then, and told her so, that it wouldn't work between us until my situation changed anyway.

 

The time and distance of NC have also helped me recognise the extent to which my desperation had and was pushing her away (incidentally the latin derivation of desperate means 'to hope'). I no longer feel like that. The other thing I am trying to say, and this is from 36 years of personal experience, is to read between the lines. People do not always say what they mean and do not nearly enough think through their actions-'you don't know what you've got till it's gone' springs to mind. It could also be we are biologically programmed to be defensive and cover up our 'real feelings'-I am not for an instant deluded enough to try and kid myself though and think she is going to run back to me with cries of 'I made a terrible mistake, please take me back boo hoo'. Not a chance.

 

The other thing is that relationships are to a degree about power. When one partner percieves or acts like they have lost power they once had, the balance shifts. The change in equilibrium can be fatal...this is what I think happened to me the last time at least. I could be wrong...I am opinionated and super strong willed but by no means a dogmatist.

 

I am currently listening to the Eagles.

[CaliGuy]

The other thing is that relationships are to a degree about power. When one partner percieves or acts like they have lost power they once had, the balance shifts. The change in equilibrium can be fatal...this is what I think happened to me the last time at least. I could be wrong...I am opinionated and super strong willed but by no means a dogmatist.

 

I agree with most of what you have to say (except for relationships with married people, regardless of the circumstances, I will never agree with it).

 

Do you know who holds the most power in a relationship? The person who cares about it the least. Ponder that for a while and you'll see that it's true.

[Leveller]

 

Do you know who holds the most power in a relationship? The person who cares about it the least. Ponder that for a while and you'll see that it's true.

 

No need to ponder I know it to be true.

 

For the first few months I didn't care whether it worked or not or at least I had my doubts. She on the other hand said initially that we could be together for 10 or 20 years or something along those lines-my reaction 'Whoaa girl'...although I never actually said 'whoaa girl'. She also started buying me birthday presents months in advance...similarly Christmas presents. I always said 'you don't know if we'll still be together then'.

 

She also said something interesting to me at one point, drawing on an event between us years and years ago, 'I thought you were out of my league'. What does these vignettes say about the present...if anything? (I would be very interested on any opinions).

 

Clearly that balance of power has shifted almost completely in the other direction now...but not forever. My gut instinct, borne from my experiences, has always told me that there will be a second chance. Time will tell.

 

I respect your views on marriage...I have NEVER cheated (but I am not suggesting what I did was totally moral...I always had issues with the situation).

 

NC brings clarity.

 

Now watching Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan

[BearPower]

BUMP!!

Take this thread into account while reading Nuala's post here>>>>>>> http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t191867/

Its excellent

Now GO NC!!!

 

SoulBear

[Nuala83]

Do you see a pattern with you and women in general?

 

What I am saying is speaking in generalities (because that's all we have to go on) is that women, especially when they walk away for someone else) are highly unlikely to come back. And even if they do, it's not because they realize you are "the one". It's because you fill a void they have in their life (meeting a need) temporarily until they find someone else to fill it permanently.

 

I hope you realize that in the majority of cases, women who walk away from men (especially for another man) are highly unlikely to reconcile. There are only a handful of cases.

 

Other than that specific case, I have seen maybe 2 or 3 other cases where a woman has walked away and then come back and the relationship has sustained itself. If you can find more than a few, I'm all ears.

 

Again, this is very, very rare. Most women, when they make that decision to leave, have already lined someone new up.

 

As I have stated many times before...women generally start pulling away from a man over time. (Weeks/Months/Years) before they actually pull the trigger. In that time they are distancing themselves emotionally. They become open to someone new. When they find someone they are interested in and have gotten to the point where they are no longer in love with someone, they pull the trigger.

 

This pattern can be found, repeatedly, in many posts that men who have been dumped have made on LS.

 

 

CG, While I agree with some of your advice, you seem pretty bitter about women. You're making us out to be shallow, scheming and cold. You say women only come back to their ex to fill a void in their life till they can replace it with someone new??!! Maybe they come back because they realise they f***ed up. Maybe old issues have been resolved. Maybe they just needed time. I can think of plenty of people who have split up and go back together and have made it last. I can also think of equally as many who have split and split for good.

 

Also when you say you've only seen 2 or 3 cases where a woman has walked away and then come back, could it not be that the people who have reconciled are too busy getting on with things and are so happy that they're back together that they're not posting?

[carhill]

I see women as pragmatic, even if emotional.

 

As I have stated many times before...women generally start pulling away from a man over time. (Weeks/Months/Years) before they actually pull the trigger. In that time they are distancing themselves emotionally. They become open to someone new.

Men do this too. I'm one of them

 

NC brings clarity.

The fog lifts. Vision is restored. Fear moderates. Life is good

[BearPower]

This is interesting.

 

I sense a little war going on here, everyone is just throwing pebbles, but CG has a tommy gun and rack of grenades (shown in words;).

 

Put your gun down and pick up a flower.

 

I think you are all right to a certain extent, but CG you HAVE TO REMEMBER that EVERY PERSON AND SITUATION is NOT THE SAME.

Not every ex is looking for validation, not every ex is looking to screw the dumpee over.

 

 

Whilst I think you have a lot of very, very good advice and experience to give, I feel that it can sometimes be somewhat one sided and i reckon if you put as much effort into helping people get back together as you do getting them to stay apart, YOUR life will take a better turn.

Please dont take offence to this, as I say it with all due respect.

 

Soul

[Leveller]

This is interesting.

 

I sense a little war going on here, everyone is just throwing pebbles, but CG has a tommy gun and rack of grenades (shown in words;).

 

Put your gun down and pick up a flower.

 

I think you are all right to a certain extent, but CG you HAVE TO REMEMBER that EVERY PERSON AND SITUATION is NOT THE SAME.

Not every ex is looking for validation, not every ex is looking to screw the dumpee over.

 

 

Whilst I think you have a lot of very, very good advice and experience to give, I feel that it can sometimes be somewhat one sided and i reckon if you put as much effort into helping people get back together as you do getting them to stay apart, YOUR life will take a better turn.

Please dont take offence to this, as I say it with all due respect.

 

Soul

 

Here, Here...again no disrepect but a divergence of opinions.