Cross-road (version 2)

[Aquarius Rising]

One BIG problem with your logic. You would be seeing him in secret. He has kids. IF you want an accurate comparison of your R with him compared to hers' date=' then yours needs to be out in the open too. Not some secret six month venture of playing house while the family is away.

 

I'd be happy for it to be out in the open, but I can't see him wanting that.

 

Why even put yourself through this as it will all likely end in six months anyway?

 

That's exactly what I'm exploring here ... do I even put myself thru that ........ what are the costs vs payoffs?

Logic says, you'll just get your heartbroken, he's never going to commit, he's so approval driven, he could never disappoint his family.

Heart says, he may allow himself to experience what he feels with me in her absence and we discover that we want to be together long term?

[NoIDidn't]

That's exactly what I'm exploring here ... do I even put myself thru that ........ what are the costs vs payoffs?

Logic says, you'll just get your heartbroken, he's never going to commit, he's so approval driven, he could never disappoint his family.

Heart says, he may allow himself to experience what he feels with me in her absence and we discover that we want to be together long term?

 

I guess what I am saying is that your current logic is faulty and going to cause you hurt if you view things in that way.

 

Many have said "enjoy it while it lasts." Could you do that without all the internal hoping he sees the difference between a R with you and one with his W? You aren't considering all the variables that make your R different as it is an A that his W doesn't know is still ongoing.

 

He doesn't seem to face conflict very well. I suppose if you did have him fulltime as a result of this experiment, he'd still want to keep you hidden so his "real" family couldn't see and cast any judgment about your R.

 

I'm saying he won't be getting an accurate comparison of the two relationships. He will still be in contact with his W and kids. He will still fear the possibility of them finding out about you. He will still likely avoid having you in front of anyone that knows his W and may be able to contact her. This is still an A. No comparison to a marriage, even if she is going OS and you'll be able to sleep with him at night.

[Aquarius Rising]

I guess what I am saying is that your current logic is faulty and going to cause you hurt if you view things in that way.

 

Many have said "enjoy it while it lasts." Could you do that without all the internal hoping he sees the difference between a R with you and one with his W? You aren't considering all the variables that make your R different as it is an A that his W doesn't know is still ongoing.

 

He doesn't seem to face conflict very well. I suppose if you did have him fulltime as a result of this experiment, he'd still want to keep you hidden so his "real" family couldn't see and cast any judgment about your R.

 

I'm saying he won't be getting an accurate comparison of the two relationships. He will still be in contact with his W and kids. He will still fear the possibility of them finding out about you. He will still likely avoid having you in front of anyone that knows his W and may be able to contact her. This is still an A. No comparison to a marriage, even if she is going OS and you'll be able to sleep with him at night.

 

You make a very good point about my current logic. You're right, it's going to all come down to him whether we continue with an A or it becomes a relationship that he can make public. But thanks NID for helping me get clearer on that ...... he won't be taking an acurate comparison of the two relationships, agreed.

[fooled once]

His wife will be in another country and he will still fear someone seeing you two together and he will not want to be "in public" with you.

 

Honestly, he sounds like a wimp. Sorry, but he is scared of everything -- intimacy, your ex, emotions - I guess that is what someone becomes when they are a cheater.

 

I don't believe he and his wife haven't had sex since the 1 time you two had sex 18 months ago.

 

And playing house for 6 months isn't an accurate view of life together as a couple; because you won't be able to go to work functions, etc as his partner because he already has a wife.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would cut my losses. You are still young and could lead a very happy, fulfilled, love filled life with someone else who isn't married.

[Aquarius Rising]

His wife will be in another country and he will still fear someone seeing you two together and he will not want to be "in public" with you.

 

Honestly, he sounds like a wimp. Sorry, but he is scared of everything -- intimacy, your ex, emotions - I guess that is what someone becomes when they are a cheater.

 

I don't believe he and his wife haven't had sex since the 1 time you two had sex 18 months ago.

 

And playing house for 6 months isn't an accurate view of life together as a couple; because you won't be able to go to work functions, etc as his partner because he already has a wife.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would cut my losses. You are still young and could lead a very happy, fulfilled, love filled life with someone else who isn't married.

 

Wow, that's refreshing to read ..... especially while sitting alone here in my bed ........

 

I know that you're right ......... Everything in my head tells me so ....... everything ...... you painted a exact replica of what my head sees ........

 

but ........... and this is my life-struggle

 

My heart wants to believe something else ....... God I wish those two would get some mediation ....... My heart and My head that is?????

 

Truly though ....... I appreciate these words ....... right now it's hard to have hope about much at all ....... and yet when I read you words I felt it ...... in my HEART!

 

Thanks FO

[jj33]

Aquarius I do hope you have taken to heart what Fooled Once and NID have just said.

 

And the fact that you are very clearly seeing this as a competition.

 

RIGHT AWAY that puts you at an extreme disadvantage. What are you. A contestant in a beauty pageant? ooh I think I can nail the swim suit comeptition if I wear x but will the W win the talent because shes such a good mother?

 

Totally wrong way to look at it. You need to walk. Tell him no thank you. No longer your back up plan. Not your dirty secret playing locked in the house while you spend the next 6 months here alone.

 

How could he see you if this is what he thinks you will accept? He sees you as someone who is desparately in love with him, who has no real life of her own and nothing more interesting to do than hang out in his house with him for 6 months

 

BECAUSE IT SUITS HIM.

 

Dont you find that to be insulting?

 

he doesnt see you as an interesting woman with a life of her own who has options and choices other than him.

 

Rather than looking at the "odds" of "getting him" as if he were a steer at a rodeo,

 

You should be looking at the fact that he has a view of you that will NEVER lead to happiness or a real relationship.

 

Sorry but men dont marry women they think are just fillers for when they are at loose ends.

 

You need to change the script. pull the rug out from under him (sorry pal no dice are you freaking kidding that sort of thing)

 

and then once he goes (huuuhhh? and finally figures out that you are not an object of convenience) then either he will go slinking back to W or he will come to you with something real.

 

I hate to say it but I think he will go slinking back to W he has consistently taken that path and there is no reason to believe that things will change now.

[Aquarius Rising]

Aquarius I do hope you have taken to heart what Fooled Once and NID have just said.

 

And the fact that you are very clearly seeing this as a competition.

 

RIGHT AWAY that puts you at an extreme disadvantage. What are you. A contestant in a beauty pageant? ooh I think I can nail the swim suit comeptition if I wear x but will the W win the talent because shes such a good mother?

 

Totally wrong way to look at it. You need to walk. Tell him no thank you. No longer your back up plan. Not your dirty secret playing locked in the house while you spend the next 6 months here alone.

 

How could he see you if this is what he thinks you will accept? He sees you as someone who is desparately in love with him, who has no real life of her own and nothing more interesting to do than hang out in his house with him for 6 months

 

BECAUSE IT SUITS HIM.

 

Dont you find that to be insulting?

 

he doesnt see you as an interesting woman with a life of her own who has options and choices other than him.

 

Rather than looking at the "odds" of "getting him" as if he were a steer at a rodeo,

 

You should be looking at the fact that he has a view of you that will NEVER lead to happiness or a real relationship.

 

Sorry but men dont marry women they think are just fillers for when they are at loose ends.

 

You need to change the script. pull the rug out from under him (sorry pal no dice are you freaking kidding that sort of thing)

 

and then once he goes (huuuhhh? and finally figures out that you are not an object of convenience) then either he will go slinking back to W or he will come to you with something real.

 

I hate to say it but I think he will go slinking back to W he has consistently taken that path and there is no reason to believe that things will change now.

 

NOTE TO SELF: RE-READ THIS POST CONTINUALLY FOR THE NEXT 12 MONTHS RELIGIOUSLY 6 TIME A DAY!

 

I hear you JJ and I know you're right ...... it's been long enough ..... I know the writing is on the wall ...... it's plain to see ...... I just gotta find it in me to follow thru ...... I've been here before ....... determined to hold on to my integrity and self-respect ...... that was harder before I was separated ...... now it should be easier ...... but for some reason (probably co's I'm still trying to stand up-right at present) .... it ain't!

[jj33]

Im right there with you. Half of what I write is like talking to myself....

 

Its harder because you are "on your own" now. And part of you was really coutning on being with him when you left.

 

Look I got an email this week telling me about something my competitors did (just to give me market intelligence) and in it was the line

 

All those people use that firm but i would think there should still be room for you to prosper in the market. maybe you should give xyz a call i hear they are expanding in this sector.

 

???????? HUH? I am busier than I have ever been. My business has not slowed down as I feared it might (his has). So exactly why is he acting like I am just out of school trying to establish myself in a new industry....

 

Am I being too defensive? I dont think so. I think it was just more drivel which was either (1) designed to provoke a response from me since we are in NC to the extent humanly possible; or (2) it shows that really he sees me as a pathetic little player in the market who is just hanging on by the skin of her teeth.

 

Either way its not good... not good at all and on some level it was designed to make me fearful and insecure and think OMG how can I not speak to this man and stay as close to him as possible... i have made a very very big mistake.

 

Well it has sent me into a tailspin of depression (my fault for allowing myself to react that way) but it has also made me think

 

You SOB. Thank God I have curtailed my contact with you. Do you think so little of me that you would try to manipulate me like this?

 

Before we can ever really do business again, he needs a total change of attitude towards who I am and how he can treat me. Its like sending a child for a time out. They need to think about their behavior.

 

This is a major time out. If in 3-6 months he can behave like a grown up and treat me with respect, we can be in more contact for business. if not, then no thank you. I dont need that toxic energy around me.

 

Take good care its not easy

[MichelleS1983]

At first MM was terrified that after my separation, my H would come after him and physically injure him and/or that I would try and hurt him by telling his W of our continued contact. MM is very insecure about his safety... which I don't really understand as it was his decision to tell his W about us in the first place.

Wow, he's quite the wuss. Seems that it's all about him and saving his sorry ass. Big surprise.

 

Now that I have reassured him that I have no intention of hurting him... he is starting to feel safe again and seems to be opening up more and becoming slightly less self-protective.

Why do you even want to waste time with someone so CLEARLY only interested in saving his own ass? Jeez, you have to practically reduce yourself to a NOTHING for him not to feel 'threatened' by you. What a loser. And I don't think he's afraid of you 'hurting' him even though that's the bull he's trying to feed you. He's afraid you're going to DEMAND more from him than he wants to give. The playing field is no longer equal - you both don't have the same amount to lose any more. Pansy boy is very aware of that is scared to death you're going to force his hand to leave his marriage or make him give more than he's willing to give. Don't think for a MINUTE that's not what's on his mind.

 

Do I invest more into our R during this time that provides us with a unique opportunity to deepen our R ?

What relationship? You have a talking "relationship" with some guy who who doesn't live near you. You provide ego strokes for him but his NUMBER ONE concern is to not lose what's really important to him - and that's not YOU. He's made that abundantly clear.

 

........ knowing that after 6mths he WILL return OS with his family ........ leaving me heartbroken and alone ...... and may NEVER return again?

I couldn't have said it better myself. What a waste of 6 months that would be. You're out of a bad marriage and it's time to start healing and finding yourself again. WHY would you add insult to injury by involving yourself in a 6-month mess?

[Aquarius Rising]

Wow, he's quite the wuss. Seems that it's all about him and saving his sorry ass. Big surprise.

 

 

Why do you even want to waste time with someone so CLEARLY only interested in saving his own ass? Jeez, you have to practically reduce yourself to a NOTHING for him not to feel 'threatened' by you. What a loser. And I don't think he's afraid of you 'hurting' him even though that's the bull he's trying to feed you. He's afraid you're going to DEMAND more from him than he wants to give. The playing field is no longer equal - you both don't have the same amount to lose any more. Pansy boy is very aware of that is scared to death you're going to force his hand to leave his marriage or make him give more than he's willing to give. Don't think for a MINUTE that's not what's on his mind.

 

 

What relationship? You have a talking "relationship" with some guy who who doesn't live near you. You provide ego strokes for him but his NUMBER ONE concern is to not lose what's really important to him - and that's not YOU. He's made that abundantly clear.

 

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. What a waste of 6 months that would be. You're out of a bad marriage and it's time to start healing and finding yourself again. WHY would you add insult to injury by involving yourself in a 6-month mess?

 

Hmmmmmm .......... WELL SAID! ........ from someone who sounds experienced in reading between the lines? ......... Thanks M

 

peace to you

AR

[NoIDidn't]

Sorry but men dont marry women they think are just fillers for when they are at loose ends.

 

 

This line really stood out for me. It makes me wonder, whose idea was this "playing house" anyway?

 

It sounds like he needs a maid and a cook. Oh yeah, and, of course, sex.

 

He can pay for all of those from someone else, but he wants it from you for free.

[Aquarius Rising]

MM emailed this morning ..... 'there's nothing you can say to change how I feel about you ....... it is what it is ........ BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!

 

With the support from this forum ....... instead of responding with my usual needy 'when are you free to talk or meet this week' attitude .....

 

I replied simply with 'Thanks, have a great week' ......... He will be taken aback by that ....... I assure you.

 

THANK-YOU FORUM ........ you've really helped to strengthen me these past few days ........ I owe you guys!

 

AR

[jj33]

Glad you are staying focused. That is great.

 

All those emails really mean are "still married still married still married"

 

its his way of trying to keep you hooked even tho he doesnt want what you want. Hoping you will decide breathing the air he breathes is better than not seeing him at all.

 

A man's entitled to his dreams eh?

[Aquarius Rising]

Glad you are staying focused. That is great.

 

All those emails really mean are "still married still married still married"

 

its his way of trying to keep you hooked even tho he doesnt want what you want. Hoping you will decide breathing the air he breathes is better than not seeing him at all.

 

A man's entitled to his dreams eh?

 

JJ, I hope the other LS members won't be offended, but you have helped me the most ..... I have not been able to stop thinking about what you said about being a needy woman with no other options but 'him' .... I mean I kind of knew it, but you really spelled it out for me.

 

Since my email response yesterday ..... I have heard NOTHING!!! Not surprised, he knows the game has changed ..... I added a quotation on My Blog Myspace yesterday that reads:-

 

NEVER MAKE SOMEONE A PRIORITY ... WHO IS ONLY PREPARED TO MAKE YOU AN 'OPTION' .....

 

It's been read 4 times today ...... I'm sure it's HIM....

 

I have to stay strong now JJ ....... I am offering him a real relationship. He's offering me JACK SH&T!...... I'm merely a back-up plan, that's all.

[jj33]

Thanks -- but must attribute the quote to Wildsoul.

 

I only know what you are going through because I have been there and by doing the wrong thing (before learning so much on LS) I put myself in a position where 2 years post A on he still thinks that my world revolves around him. How he could think that when we have been apart for 2 years and he knows nothing of my life am not sure but it seems he does.

 

Actually I do know its because I still react badly when he yanks my chain. Even a negative reaction is attention.

 

Hang in there

 

and really dont offer him anything. Nothing at all. He needs to offer YOU something. He has a relationship. And he has had you.

 

His plate is more than full. You need to fill your plate now with people who deserve your love and attention.

[Aquarius Rising]

Thanks -- but must attribute the quote to Wildsoul.

 

I only know what you are going through because I have been there and by doing the wrong thing (before learning so much on LS) I put myself in a position where 2 years post A on he still thinks that my world revolves around him. How he could think that when we have been apart for 2 years and he knows nothing of my life am not sure but it seems he does.

 

Actually I do know its because I still react badly when he yanks my chain. Even a negative reaction is attention.

 

Hang in there

 

and really dont offer him anything. Nothing at all. He needs to offer YOU something. He has a relationship. And he has had you.

 

His plate is more than full. You need to fill your plate now with people who deserve your love and attention.

 

Well I'd like to thank you and Wildsoul then because it has really struck a chord ...... I know that I am now separated and that has created a shift .... but it has also made me realise what I was settling for with MM.

 

You're SO SO SO right .... I need to offer him NOTHING now ..... that's been hard to follow thru on in the past ..... because I always go in to 'rescue' his insecurities ...... well not this time ...... gotta stay strong ..... and fogive me if I rely a little heavily at times on the forum for that strength ....

 

Many thanks to you all

AR

[jj33]

Im ashamed to say that 2 years later I am still in that same place you struggle with now. The A is well over but I still havent found my peace with it. I still have to remind myself not to do things that suggest I am the 4th runner up in the beauty pageant etc etc. So annoyed with myself that any little thing he says still bug me.

 

Im sure thats why I post so much - it has kept me strong and reminds that the stories are largely all the same. Some differ in terms of the bond between the 2 people and their treatment of one another during and after the A, but largely they are the same. Some do work out but most of those never post here, a few of those who post here do work out but they are the minority (my sense is by the time someone decides to post things have pretty much not gone well).

 

A large percentage of the time, everyone gets hurts hurt and noone is better off for the experience. Sure you can look back and salvage some good memories but overall for most people, it was something that would have been better off missed.

 

 

Never apologize for posting. That is what the forum is for.

 

Hang in there. Deciding you are out is a major step. Things will only get better day by day.

[NoIDidn't]

JJ, I hope the other LS members won't be offended, but you have helped me the most ..... I have not been able to stop thinking about what you said about being a needy woman with no other options but 'him' .... I mean I kind of knew it, but you really spelled it out for me.

 

 

Naw, I'm not speaking for everyone, but I don't think anyone is offended that you feel that way -----jj33 is AWESOME!!!!

 

She's a great help to many. Me included!

[NoIDidn't]

MM emailed this morning ..... 'there's nothing you can say to change how I feel about you ....... it is what it is ........ BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!

 

With the support from this forum ....... instead of responding with my usual needy 'when are you free to talk or meet this week' attitude .....

 

I replied simply with 'Thanks, have a great week' ......... He will be taken aback by that ....... I assure you.

 

THANK-YOU FORUM ........ you've really helped to strengthen me these past few days ........ I owe you guys!

 

AR

 

I'm glad you responded the way you did, but now you've got to stick with it if you are going to keep this strong front.

 

I really hate the "it is what it is" line in his message to you. Its like he's saying he's married and it isn't ever going to change. Now I have no problem with him staying married. Its what I think he should do if he loves and values his W and family. But I think its wrong of him to want you on the side and for you to be so accepting of his reality while he doesn't NOTHING for you and your reality.

 

Let the arguments or disappearing acts begin.

[jj33]

Thanks NID right back at you.

 

 

And such a great point about that line ... yes Aquarius knows it is what it is.

 

And that is why she is out of there...

[fooled once]

He isn't even offering you jack sh*t -- <hug>

 

Please stay strong.

 

You DESERVE to be #1.

 

You DESERVE to be loved.

 

You DESERVE to be able to shout it from the rooftops that you love someone and have them right there shouting with you.

 

You DESERVE to walk hand in hand down the street, together. Maybe shop at the Farmer's Market, maybe take in some music at the park.

 

You DESERVE to have someone to share your day with (and not through text or email or quick phone calls).

 

You DESERVE to have someone want to be with you, in the open, to laugh with, cry with, talk with.

 

You DESERVE to be their focus.

 

You DESERVE to be the game, not the warm ups.

 

Go get it -- life is out there waiting for you. GRAB it and hold on and fight for being the CHOICE, not the consolation prize.

[Aquarius Rising]

He isn't even offering you jack sh*t -- <hug>

 

Please stay strong.

 

You DESERVE to be #1.

 

You DESERVE to be loved.

 

You DESERVE to be able to shout it from the rooftops that you love someone and have them right there shouting with you.

 

You DESERVE to walk hand in hand down the street, together. Maybe shop at the Farmer's Market, maybe take in some music at the park.

 

You DESERVE to have someone to share your day with (and not through text or email or quick phone calls).

 

You DESERVE to have someone want to be with you, in the open, to laugh with, cry with, talk with.

 

You DESERVE to be their focus.

 

You DESERVE to be the game, not the warm ups.

 

Go get it -- life is out there waiting for you. GRAB it and hold on and fight for being the CHOICE, not the consolation prize.

 

Oh thanks FO, you're so right. I just prepared an email to him confronting him over the lies, especially about not having sex with his wife for 18mths, and other things that I believe he has lied to me about. I also said that i refuse to be the 'back-up' plan if his first choice doesn't work out etc. etc.

 

BUT

 

then I deleted it before sending, because even trying to justify why I shouldn't have to accept what he's offering makes me look foolish I thought. No, like JJ33 says .......offer him NOTHING ....... and see what happens.

 

Thanks for your words of support ........ I sick in bed today ....... off work ........ alone ........ separated from my kids this week .......... very vulnerable indeed!

[jj33]

I cant tell you how many emails I sent.. in retrospect I should have fought through the pain. Dont do it.

 

There is NOTHING he needs or deserves to hear from you and nothing good that he can say in return. Nothing at all.

 

In that respect its kind of like any other relationship. When its over the best thing to do is just to shut the door. Oh how I wish I had done that when the A ended.

 

Good for you for deleting it. Send them to yourself if you must. But it only flatters their egos to get the heartbroken you ba*stard emails later.

 

And really dont expect anything to happen. So what if he comes back with abc... its all just more confirmation that he is married....

[Aquarius Rising]

I cant tell you how many emails I sent.. in retrospect I should have fought through the pain. Dont do it.

 

There is NOTHING he needs or deserves to hear from you and nothing good that he can say in return. Nothing at all.

 

In that respect its kind of like any other relationship. When its over the best thing to do is just to shut the door. Oh how I wish I had done that when the A ended.

 

Good for you for deleting it. Send them to yourself if you must. But it only flatters their egos to get the heartbroken you ba*stard emails later.

 

And really dont expect anything to happen. So what if he comes back with abc... its all just more confirmation that he is married....

 

YES, YES AND MORE YES .......... Thanks JJ for re-affirming my thoughts.

 

AR

[Aquarius Rising]

Damn ........... why can't men just be women? ......... Worlds problems solved!