Why is it so hard to believe that some MM/MW really DO stay for the children?

[NoIDidn't]

Kids will only react negatively to divorce if it is presented to them as a negative event. Which spouse is giving them the impression that divorce is a bad thing?

 

My kids have not been affected by my divorce. They have two homes, two parents who love them (and who get along), and if there were any drama between me and my ex, the kids would have no clue because no issues are brought up around them, ever!

 

There is a schedule, routine, and also flexibility in case of a scheduling conflict. We are both parents invested in what is best for our kids. We date others, and live our own lives but our kids are smart, happy, and loved.

 

Said by one that is in denial of the facts or just ignorant of the kids' true feelings.

 

Kids almost ALWAYS react negatively to a divorce. My dad just got divorced for the THIRD time and I still didn't see it as a positive event for him or my exStepMom.

 

I agree with trying to have normalcy, but to say that they don't have negative feelings about having their home life changed drastically and permanently is just delusional.

 

I do not believe that kids are as resilient as adults would like to believe. I just don't think they have the words to say what they are feeling most of the time. That, and most parents are in so much turmoil over the events as well as to not be approachable about it anyway. Hence, the kids do what they know - play and be kids - and the adults mistake it for resiliency.

 

Too many screwed up adults on these forums point directly to their childhoods for most of the mess they make of their adult lives for me to think that kids aren't affected by these things.

[Mino]

so NID, what would be the solution in your eyes, sending the kids to family counseling before a D? Going in to thereapy as a family to prepare the kids of whats to come? I mean how do you spare the children? Because either way you look at it, If the couple stays together, the kids end of screwed, the couple D, kids also screwed

[NoIDidn't]

so NID, what would be the solution in your eyes, sending the kids to family counseling before a D? Going in to thereapy as a family to prepare the kids of whats to come? I mean how do you spare the children? Because either way you look at it, If the couple stays together, the kids end of screwed, the couple D, kids also screwed

 

That's the reality of human relationships and dysfunction. Almost everybody has some level of dysfunction in their families.

 

Family counseling is a must after a divorce. In most cases, the court orders it anyway.

 

But you are right, either way, the kids get screwed. No real way around that other than the adults keeping the lines of communication open so they can talk about their hurts in the ways they know how.

 

Don't get me wrong. My belief that kids aren't resilient doesn't mean that moms and dads are stuck in dysfunctional relationships to spare the kids. It just means that it shouldn't be assumed that the kids are fine because they don't talk about it. We have to be advocates for our kids and role models in showing them HOW to talk about the things that hurt, not bottle it up and making others mistake it for resiliency.

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

Well you don't know my kids. They are exceptional. We were never court ordered to attend counselling. The kids did go through a program offered through their school for children of divorce but that was our choice.

 

Actually, we're not divorced. 4 1/2 years separated. I've procrastinated because it's alot of $ and time to visit lawyers and crap, so we were going to do the online thing, but it seemed like a pain. So, I finally got off my azz and made an appt with a lawyer on Monday next week to start the proceedings. There is nothing left to settle, just legalities.

 

But it's not like we'll get the kids together and say "okay, now we are divorcing! OMG!" as far as they're aware, nothing changes, The marriage has been done for a long time. They don't even remember me living at their dad's house. They were 7 and 9, now they are 12 and 14 and the greatest kids EVER! I love them so much!

[Mino]

That's the reality of human relationships and dysfunction. Almost everybody has some level of dysfunction in their families.

 

Family counseling is a must after a divorce. In most cases, the court orders it anyway.

 

But you are right, either way, the kids get screwed. No real way around that other than the adults keeping the lines of communication open so they can talk about their hurts in the ways they know how.

 

Don't get me wrong. My belief that kids aren't resilient doesn't mean that moms and dads are stuck in dysfunctional relationships to spare the kids. It just means that it shouldn't be assumed that the kids are fine because they don't talk about it. We have to be advocates for our kids and role models in showing them HOW to talk about the things that hurt, not bottle it up and making others mistake it for resiliency.

oh I agree, the kids NEED counseling to learn to deal with their emotions. But many times the parents are to tied up in thier own emotional upheavel, that the kids feelings and emotional health gets pushed aside. The damage is done quickly. So I think parents who do plan a S and/ or D need to plan beforehand and start the kids counseling before any major change is made. That would be the most logical and loving thing to do.

[NoIDidn't]

Well you don't know my kids. They are exceptional. We were never court ordered to attend counselling. The kids did go through a program offered through their school for children of divorce but that was our choice.

 

Actually, we're not divorced. 4 1/2 years separated. I've procrastinated because it's alot of $ and time to visit lawyers and crap, so we were going to do the online thing, but it seemed like a pain. So, I finally got off my azz and made an appt with a lawyer on Monday next week to start the proceedings. There is nothing left to settle, just legalities.

 

But it's not like we'll get the kids together and say "okay, now we are divorcing! OMG!" as far as they're aware, nothing changes, The marriage has been done for a long time. They don't even remember me living at their dad's house. They were 7 and 9, now they are 12 and 14 and the greatest kids EVER! I love them so much!

 

I think the fact that you did the voluntary program at the school seemed good enough to the courts - me too, not that my opinion counts in your personal life though.

 

I'm happy that you and your H care deeply enough about your kids' adjustment during this time to encourage and support them going to that program at the school. More parents should do this, but sadly they don't and its their kids that start disrupting classrooms while their parents talk about how "resilient" they are.

[Heather1]

This is interesting that this topic is even here & has been twisted all around so that the OW somehow gets her man & the kids are kind of in the way & will get over it & it's the OM fault for being kind of a sociopath (or victim of unhappiness), so the kids are better off. How about the guy putting his kids needs before his own? And the OW's?

 

We're all human here, and we've all made a grave error in judgement for whatever reason.

 

If OM leaves for the A, starts a family w/ you, etc., etc. then I think you'd have a different view on this. My friend just got divorced from his former A partner because everyone hated her. The honorable thing to do is think of your kids & the contract you have w/ your spouse. Marriages are for better or worse, an A ranks up there. But it's happened since the beginning of time....hence a "contract."

[NoIDidn't]

This is interesting that this topic is even here & has been twisted all around so that the OW somehow gets her man & the kids are kind of in the way & will get over it & it's the OM fault for being kind of a sociopath (or victim of unhappiness), so the kids are better off. How about the guy putting his kids needs before his own? And the OW's?

 

I'm having a hard time seeing how you reached this conclusion given the conversation on the last page is directly addressing the man's delusion that his kids need him to stay and how this negatively affects the very kids he's claiming to stay for.

 

Have a post that made you feel this way?

[Heather1]

Kids need their parents. Are my kids miserable knowing I'm "unhappy" with their Dad? They probably wonder what's up a little. Would they be better off if we stopped living some lie for a roll of the dice? No...they wouldn't see it coming & Aunts, Uncle's, Grandparents, friends, etc. would all be affected too. I don't know what everyone's individual situation is, but it's only a pocket of the OM world (the best part at that). Do you really want him to leave, marry you & have his whole family (including kids) hate you? That would make him REALLY unhappy.

 

Justifying that it's best for the kids is really a weird way to look at this. In most cases, it is NOT! For a guy who's womanizing & claiming victim to an unhappy marriage? A, ha,ha. That's a player's line.

[Mino]

Kids need their parents. Are my kids miserable knowing I'm "unhappy" with their Dad? They probably wonder what's up a little. Would they be better off if we stopped living some lie for a roll of the dice? No...they wouldn't see it coming & Aunts, Uncle's, Grandparents, friends, etc. would all be affected too. I don't know what everyone's individual situation is, but it's only a pocket of the OM world (the best part at that). Do you really want him to leave, marry you & have his whole family (including kids) hate you? That would make him REALLY unhappy.

 

Justifying that it's best for the kids is really a weird way to look at this. In most cases, it is NOT! For a guy who's womanizing & claiming victim to an unhappy marriage? A, ha,ha. That's a player's line.

So heather , is it best for the player to be home, so the kids can LEARN his line?

[Can'tGiveUp]

Kids need their parents. Are my kids miserable knowing I'm "unhappy" with their Dad? They probably wonder what's up a little. Would they be better off if we stopped living some lie for a roll of the dice? No...they wouldn't see it coming & Aunts, Uncle's, Grandparents, friends, etc. would all be affected too. I don't know what everyone's individual situation is, but it's only a pocket of the OM world (the best part at that). Do you really want him to leave, marry you & have his whole family (including kids) hate you? That would make him REALLY unhappy.

 

Justifying that it's best for the kids is really a weird way to look at this. In most cases, it is NOT! For a guy who's womanizing & claiming victim to an unhappy marriage? A, ha,ha. That's a player's line.

 

This sounds like you have weighed the pros and cons and have decided that staying in your M is best for your children.

 

I guess my question is whether you are showing your children the best role model for a M? A mother who is unhappy? A couple living a lie? Is this what you would want for them?

 

I would hate for my child to live in the kind of M I was in. And they will always know that they have my unconditional love and support.

[Heather1]

I agree w/ you, but this is the choice that I'm making for now. Does anyone really win parent awards?? We all do the best we can. I'm human, and I think my kids need to know that we do have flaws. All I'm saying is that above all else, I factor my kids in. If we didn't have kids I would have left a long time ago.

 

If I was so unhappy that I was non-functional married as opposed to being "myself" and with an abusive H or some other horrible abusive situation, absolutely. You have to protect your kids too.

 

I'm just confused to how this board can determine what's best for kids & if I disagree I'm a crappy mother.

[Lizzie60]

I have said it before .. and I say it again.. I would say that a large percentage of people who stray.. stay because of the children first... then the material stuff they acquired over the years.. (house, cottage, cars, investments, etc.)... and the last reason is to NOT hurt their partner... eventhough there is no more love in most situations.. the partner has become their best friend.. and they don't want to hurt them.

 

I have known many many MMs who said if it weren't for the kids and all the material stuff.. they would leave in a heartbeat... (they had no reasons to lie to me since I wasn't threatening for the MM).

 

As I said before.. if they (MMs) could only replace the woman in their life, without disturbing all the rest.. they certainly would.

[Can'tGiveUp]

I agree w/ you, but this is the choice that I'm making for now. Does anyone really win parent awards?? We all do the best we can. I'm human, and I think my kids need to know that we do have flaws. All I'm saying is that above all else, I factor my kids in. If we didn't have kids I would have left a long time ago.

 

If I was so unhappy that I was non-functional married as opposed to being "myself" and with an abusive H or some other horrible abusive situation, absolutely. You have to protect your kids too.

 

I'm just confused to how this board can determine what's best for kids & if I disagree I'm a crappy mother.

 

Actually what you've done is answered the original question - "does anyone stay for the kids?" I don't think you're a crappy mother. I said in one of my posts that we weigh the pros and cons and make a decision. We also reevaluate that decision occasionally. You even said it is a decision you are making - "for now".

 

I think your decision is wrong...but I have gone through that part of the decision, I stayed in a M longer than I should have because of my kids - years longer. But it is a process.

 

And an MM goes through the same process. Sometimes he stays...because of the kids. Sometimes he leaves. Sometimes he tries staying and when it doesn't work, then he leaves.

 

But because he leaves doesn't make him a bad father, anymore than staying makes you a crappy mother. I'd like to think that ultimately everyone makes the decision that they feel is best for their kids.

 

I couldn't be the best mother I can be, when I was in so unhappy a situation. I had to leave and when a 10 year old tells you that she can see how much better things are after, then you know the decision was right. I just don't believe in laying the responsibility for a M on the children. And I don't think any kid wants to find out that they are the only reason their parents stayed together.

[WineCountry]

Complicated..I'm still a little fuzzy on why your friend didn't get with the OW that he supposedly loved even before he got married.

 

You say he got married because his wife ( then girlfriend ) got pregnant.

 

But, this must mean that he knew the OW while he was dating his wife ( then girlfriend ). So, if he loved the OW so much, why wasnt he dating HER instead of his wife to be??

[NoIDidn't]

Kids need their parents. Are my kids miserable knowing I'm "unhappy" with their Dad? They probably wonder what's up a little. Would they be better off if we stopped living some lie for a roll of the dice? No...they wouldn't see it coming & Aunts, Uncle's, Grandparents, friends, etc. would all be affected too. I don't know what everyone's individual situation is, but it's only a pocket of the OM world (the best part at that). Do you really want him to leave, marry you & have his whole family (including kids) hate you? That would make him REALLY unhappy.

 

Justifying that it's best for the kids is really a weird way to look at this. In most cases, it is NOT! For a guy who's womanizing & claiming victim to an unhappy marriage? A, ha,ha. That's a player's line.

 

And all those people won't be affected by staying for a bad reason as well? Look, I'm not telling you what to do. The point of these forums is to talk about it, discuss it. That's all I'm doing from my point of view.

 

Psychologists have said that staying for the kids is fine but ONLY if the relationship is one of relatively low conflict and basic respect being shown by the parents. If you are going to mope around the house depressed because of your circumstances or always picking fights with their father, then yes, its in everyone's best interest if you leave.

 

Family Therapy exists for the kids and parents should things come to divorce or separation. This is how that "unhappiness" is dealt with. Plus, the kids may already be unhappy. Its almost fact that when Mom is unhappy, EVERYONE in that house is unhappy. I did say "almost".

 

Either way, good luck in your temporary situation.

[complicatedlife]

Your friend. I was referring to.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

But you said the following:

Your affair was a joke it wasnt love, it was all a fantasy.

 

Are you saying that someone you've known for 22 years, dated, loved and still love, and had an affair with for 11 years.....that was all "fantasy"?

[complicatedlife]

Complicated..I'm still a little fuzzy on why your friend didn't get with the OW that he supposedly loved even before he got married.

 

You say he got married because his wife ( then girlfriend ) got pregnant.

 

But, this must mean that he knew the OW while he was dating his wife ( then girlfriend ). So, if he loved the OW so much, why wasnt he dating HER instead of his wife to be??

 

He knew the fOW first, they dated, and she broke up with him because of something that he did, which he has not disclosed to me. He then started an on again-off again relationship with his current wife while he was trying to get back with fOW. In between all of that, his wife became pregnant, so he married her. Hope this clears the fuzzies!

[complicatedlife]

Psychologists have said that staying for the kids is fine but ONLY if the relationship is one of relatively low conflict and basic respect being shown by the parents. If you are going to mope around the house depressed because of your circumstances or always picking fights with their father' date=' then yes, its in everyone's best interest if you leave.[/quote']

 

Many, many studies support this theory: it must be low conflict, and the parents have to be authentically happy in their situation. Children have the ability to pick up on their parents' unhappiness even if they don't articulate that fact.

[complicatedlife]

I guess my question is whether you are showing your children the best role model for a M? A mother who is unhappy? A couple living a lie? Is this what you would want for them?

 

I would hate for my child to live in the kind of M I was in. And they will always know that they have my unconditional love and support.

 

My cousin who is a family therapist gets very passionate about the bolded part - parents sometimes forget that children are going to base their future relationships on what they have witnessed consciously as well as subconsciously as a child.

[complicatedlife]

Psychologists have said that staying for the kids is fine but ONLY if the relationship is one of relatively low conflict and basic respect being shown by the parents. If you are going to mope around the house depressed because of your circumstances or always picking fights with their father' date=' then yes, its in everyone's best interest if you leave.[/quote']

 

Many, many studies support this theory: it must be low conflict, and the parents have to be authentically happy in their situation. Children have the ability to pick up on their parents' unhappiness even if they don't articulate that fact.