just got a call from BW...

[dobler33]

I don't think you are crazy. I think you recognize that she is hurting because of something you participated in. But I think you are allowing her to take this too far. You have your own issues to deal with.

 

I would never have contacted you in this way if you were my H's OW. I contacted her twice. Once to ask a question for the truth about contact and another time to see if she still had any old emails from when they were actively in the EA should I decide to leave him (I live in a fault state). The second contact, I apologized profusely for even bothering her as I was sure it was an unwelcome contact.

 

I think this woman is taking advantage of any empathy she thinks people have for her position. And it will be to her own undoing. I've seen it too many times.

 

Don't let her attack you at this meeting. Tell her to keep it mature and respectful or threaten to leave. Something tells me she just wants to make you feel bad like she does. But its not going to make her feel any better and its only going to piss you off.

 

 

thanks, NiD. i'm feeling pretty ok about it this morning. i do feel compassion for her, because of what i did to her and because i know her husband told her how he felt about me, all of it, even the fact that he thought he loved me more, blah blah blah. i'm sure i'd still be feeling insecure if i'd heard that, sure i'd still be worried about the other woman showing back up and messing with my safety. i do have compassion for that. that's why i've done everything i could to stay out of her realm, keep myself and everything i represent out of her social sphere. she does not seem to feel the same need for respect. i can't change that but i can keep her from manipulating me further into a corner.

[Owl]

Were you and her friends/acquaintances prior to/during the affair?

[dobler33]

Were you and her friends/acquaintances prior to/during the affair?

 

 

yes - maybe you remember from my former posts that the xOM was my H's best friend, and she was a very close friend of mine. still no graceful or pretty way of writing that, but there you go.

[Owl]

That makes sense to me, and it also makes her actions make a little more sense to me as well.

 

See, here's the deal...there's more betrayal here than just between him and her.

 

You betrayed her directly as well. You betrayed that friendship, and the trust implied with it as well.

 

That's probably why she feels that a 'face to face' discussion between the two of you isn't out of bounds. She's not only just wanting to address the affair, but probably the friendship/relationship between the two of you that was destroyed as well. A lot of times, there is no relationship between OW/OM and BS...so in those cases, there's REALLY no value in meeting face to face.

 

And I can see how you feel that it's not fair that you change your life to avoid her after all of this...you feel just as "hurt" as she is by all of this. In a way, he betrayed you when the chips fell.

 

From her viewpoint...you were an active and willing party to this whole situation...she was not. She was blindsided and violated by the actions of her husband...and you.

 

The need to "change" in order to avoid conflict after an affair is normal...and working out who changes what usually takes some time, and some conflict to resolve. How the two of you work that out is up to you.

 

But as far as going to this "discussion"...I'd do as I'd previously suggested. Simply send an email reply informing her that NC is in place between her H and you, and there's no value in discussing boundaries that you're not violating. If her H is doing so in some fashion (like the Facebook thing you mentioned), then she needs to enforce her boundaries with him to work through that...you're not a part of that problem any longer.

 

And leave it at that.

[delirious]

Hi Dob, don't see her. Get your xMM to meet her if you can tell him. My MM's wife was an aquaintance of mine, and after reading LS, I am dreading a call from her, but i would definitely not meet her - she has to deal with him, not you, you are too sore to deal with this. Let it go. It can serve no purpose. Perhaps he is grieving over you and she can't deal with it, but she has to.

[torranceshipman]

I didn't understand this comment of yours: 'I am sick of being the dalai effing lama.'. What does that mean? You hurt this woman extremely badly, so regardless of how right or wrong her actions are, you shouldn't expect her to act towards you with respect and yes it IS right and normal for you to 'take the high road' by trying to at least respect her and not rise to her challenges after the fact. That doesn't make you a martyr or particularly wise by any stretch-it makes you compassionate. Remember that she's reacting to something terrible that YOU did to HER.

 

If you're a therapist (did you say you were one?) - or even if you're not - shouldn't you have a basic appreciation for the fact that she might be hurting extremely badly because you helped to completely ruin her life (as she sees it)? I thought the Dalai Lama comment might be you thinking you're a bit of a martyr for trying not to retaliate when she acts crazy with you, but that's the least you can do for her as this is the kind of fall out that happens when you have an A, unfortunately.

 

I also think - can the drama. Send a message of some sort to her that you are calling the cops and will get a restraining order immediately if this persists, then change your number and 100% ignore and cease all contact with her - stop fuelling this. Meeting her is going to make it worse, plus you're really emotional and pissed and feeling wronged about it all, so sounds like things are going to get even worse if you meet.

 

Good luck though, hope things don't get any more unpleasant.

[dobler33]

Hi Dob, don't see her. Get your xMM to meet her if you can tell him. My MM's wife was an aquaintance of mine, and after reading LS, I am dreading a call from her, but i would definitely not meet her - she has to deal with him, not you, you are too sore to deal with this. Let it go. It can serve no purpose. Perhaps he is grieving over you and she can't deal with it, but she has to.

 

 

oh, i'm not going to contact him. that would be confirming all her paranoid delusions about me and just f*ck my head up, as well as my marriage. and i think it comes down to the fact that she can't deal with the fact that her insecurities still exist and have nothing to do with me. her husband confirmed all her insecurities when he went "full disclosure" by telling her over and over how much he loved me and how he was staying for the kids, the bastard. sometimes i think full disclosure isn't always the best way to go if people are expected to heal. but it's easier for her to think that she feels unsafe because i'm exchanging effing bread recipes w mutual friends on FB. the farther away i get from this madness the more i see how both of them used me against each other, how they made me into some kind of weapon, how they simply stripped me of all humanity and agency in their heads and made me into the battleground on which they decided whether or not to divorce. and it seems like they're still doing it, still making me the root of their problems despite the fact that i more or less no longer exist for them. and as i've said, if they were far away and didn't know anyone i know, i wouldn't give a flying f*ck. i acted badly and did things i regret, i betrayed her and my husband and i have been facing those consequences every day. but i also allowed myself to be this strategic thing for them, and i have to stand against that if i'm ever going to heal from this. does that make sense?

[dobler33]

I didn't understand this comment of yours: 'I am sick of being the dalai effing lama.'. What does that mean? You hurt this woman extremely badly, so regardless of how right or wrong her actions are, you shouldn't expect her to act towards you with respect and yes it IS right and normal for you to 'take the high road' by trying to at least respect her and not rise to her challenges after the fact. That doesn't make you a martyr or particularly wise by any stretch-it makes you compassionate. Remember that she's reacting to something terrible that YOU did to HER.

 

If you're a therapist (did you say you were one?) - or even if you're not - shouldn't you have a basic appreciation for the fact that she might be hurting extremely badly because you helped to completely ruin her life (as she sees it)? I thought the Dalai Lama comment might be you thinking you're a bit of a martyr for trying not to retaliate when she acts crazy with you, but that's the least you can do for her as this is the kind of fall out that happens when you have an A, unfortunately.

 

I also think - can the drama. Send a message of some sort to her that you are calling the cops and will get a restraining order immediately if this persists, then change your number and 100% ignore and cease all contact with her - stop fuelling this. Meeting her is going to make it worse, plus you're really emotional and pissed and feeling wronged about it all, so sounds like things are going to get even worse if you meet.

 

Good luck though, hope things don't get any more unpleasant.

 

yeah, the dalai lama thing was less about being a martyr and more about being sick of ALWAYS having to be the therapist, the understanding one who doesn't get to be pissed and react when others are able to do so. i know it's petty. i never let it blow up. and again, if this weren't a question of her stepping way out of line and trying to control who i do and do not speak to, down to and including my own family, i would suck it up and deal with whatever evil representation she needed to have of me. but for sh*t's sake, i have to protect my own boundaries. she called me out of the blue and reopened this can of worms. by meeting her i hope to END the drama, not propogate her. and as for writing her an email, she has made it clear that she will not read or accept any communication other than meeting with her. i still agree with everyone who says it would be better not to meet her. but i just can't bear the thought of her getting the notion she can keep pushing me out and out and further out, continuing to blame me for all their problems. the EA lasted all of 6 weeks. they have 15 years of marital damage on their hands before i was even a glimmer in his eye. their sh*t is not my fault. my marriage is my work, my responsibility, my burden to rebuild and face consequences. they need to deal with their own marriage and stop making me the focus of it.

[anne1707]

her husband confirmed all her insecurities when he went "full disclosure" by telling her over and over how much he loved me and how he was staying for the kids, the bastard.

 

. the EA lasted all of 6 weeks. they have 15 years of marital damage on their hands before i was even a glimmer in his eye. their sh*t is not my fault. my marriage is my work, my responsibility, my burden to rebuild and face consequences. they need to deal with their own marriage and stop making me the focus of it.

 

 

Dobler

 

Get it fixed into your head now. If this man loved you as much as you keep talking about and his marriage was as miserable as you say, he would be with you and not his wife. You say you want them to stop focussing on you but you are hooked on this drama. You are still so wrapped up in the affair.

 

If you meet the wife, you are breaking NC and betraying your H's trust in you yet again. You seem to think that you are being hard done by. Tough. The people who have been hard done by are your husband and the OM's wife.

 

Have you told your H about this meeting yet? I cannot believe that the only way you can contact him is via email every few days. Not only do we have telephones in Europe, we also have mobile phones.

[dobler33]

Dobler

 

Get it fixed into your head now. If this man loved you as much as you keep talking about and his marriage was as miserable as you say, he would be with you and not his wife. You say you want them to stop focussing on you but you are hooked on this drama. You are still so wrapped up in the affair.

 

If you meet the wife, you are breaking NC and betraying your H's trust in you yet again. You seem to think that you are being hard done by. Tough. The people who have been hard done by are your husband and the OM's wife.

 

Have you told your H about this meeting yet? I cannot believe that the only way you can contact him is via email every few days. Not only do we have telephones in Europe, we also have mobile phones.

 

actually, one of the things i want to gently tell her is just what you point out - that he chose her, that his "full disclosure" of his love for another woman was still not paramount enough to break up their marriage and their family, and that therefore she does not need to see me as a threat. her attempts to erase me are all about this fear of me, which i think her husband wrongly instilled in her in the name of "full disclosure". i am patently NOT a threat, both because i am totally committed to the very successful process of rebuilding with my husband, and because the xOM CHOSE HIS WIFE OVER ME, which, as painful as it was at the time, was a clear indication of how he wanted his life to go - with her. i keep hoping that if she can wrap her head around this fact, as i have done, that she will be able to move on with her life and not see me hiding under every bed, continuing to make increasingly impossible demands for me to disappear.

 

as for communicating this w my husband, as i've said, i've written him an email and will talk to him further about it when he lands and gets into the hotel and can contact me. yes, you have phones, but he doesn't when he's there - international coverage from the states is incredibly expensive. he just got a laptop so he can skype me - i expect i'll be able to see his face and talk to him by tonight. really, i'm not avoiding him. i wish like hell i could have talked to him the minute she called. i've written him and that's all i can do for now.

[anne1707]

When he lands? How long is this flight! He's been flying for a day or two now according to you.

 

You are putting the cost of a phone bill over speaking to your H about something as important as this?

[dobler33]

When he lands? How long is this flight! He's been flying for a day or two now according to you.

 

You are putting the cost of a phone bill over speaking to your H about something as important as this?

 

the last time i talked to him was in cincinatti during a layover, and then they were heading to paris and then amsterdam. i don't think you understand - i have NO way of calling him. his phone does not work out of the states. i would of course spare no expense in contacting him, but there is NO OPERATING DEVICE currently for me to contact him on. they are a traveling band. they are not bankers. when he is reachable he will contact me. what is confusing about this?

[anne1707]

What I find confusing is that you have such limited means of contacting each other. I know that after my H found out about my affair that there was no way he would have gone away for six weeks without easy means of getting in touch with me. Doesn't mean you are on the phone every 5 minutes but it just provides an additional way of keeping in touch at a vulnerable time.

 

Dobler - I have been where you are, I know how the "fog" works and I don't think you are out of it yet. I know I am coming down hard on you in this thread but this is because I really believe you are making a big mistake in seeing the wife.

[dobler33]

What I find confusing is that you have such limited means of contacting each other. I know that after my H found out about my affair that there was no way he would have gone away for six weeks without easy means of getting in touch with me. Doesn't mean you are on the phone every 5 minutes but it just provides an additional way of keeping in touch at a vulnerable time.

 

Dobler - I have been where you are, I know how the "fog" works and I don't think you are out of it yet. I know I am coming down hard on you in this thread but this is because I really believe you are making a big mistake in seeing the wife.

 

we spent a lot of detailed time and effort working through that before he left. it was almost two months after d-day that he had to leave, and he doesn't really have a choice. if he gives up the gig he's essentially giving up the band. i think, as i said, that international phone coverage is a much bigger ripoff in the states than it is in europe - i've heard that from european friends before. we have a good working system of communication, but there really isn't anyway for me to contact him until he contacts me. let me tell you, i effing hate it, always have. we have webcams set up for skype, and that make a huge difference.

 

thanks for your care, anne. i hear what you're saying about the fear of me still being in the fog. all i can tell you is that i honestly feel out of the fog, and part of the reason i can face her and try to address the protection of my own boundaries is because of the strength and stability i feel on the other side of the fog. if i were angling to get him back i'd lay down for her in an attempt not to cause waves - that's what i do when i'm feeling emotionally comprimised and without resources. it is precisely because i'm out of the fog that i can see so clearly the way these two people are still using me as a way to hurt one another, and it is now beginning to interfere with my friends and family in a way i'm no longer willing to accept.

[dobler33]

phew! just got to skype w hubby, he's totally behind me meeting w her and sends his support and love. he sees the fact that this could spin quickly out of control and said to handle it how i see fit. i'm relieved to have heard his reassuring voice.

 

y'all feel better now, too?

[bentnotbroken]

phew! just got to skype w hubby, he's totally behind me meeting w her and sends his support and love. he sees the fact that this could spin quickly out of control and said to handle it how i see fit. i'm relieved to have heard his reassuring voice.

 

y'all feel better now, too?

 

 

As long as he isn't in the dark, whatever will work best for your recovery. I still don't think I would met with her, but I do understand the need to face the things that I have done that aren't my proudest moments.

[dobler33]

As long as he isn't in the dark, whatever will work best for your recovery. I still don't think I would met with her, but I do understand the need to face the things that I have done that aren't my proudest moments.

 

 

it ended up being a very helpful conversation, for both of us. firmer boundaries have been set and i believe we have a greater understanding of one another. she hadn't realized that her husband had been crossing FB boundaries and agreed to tell him to stop, and we figured out a way in which we could all be visible to the people who would be offended if we dropped off the planet but not visible to one another. she seems at this point to hold a higher hope for future friendship than i do, but by the end of the conversation was not a) painting me as a redheaded temptress who lured her husband away or b) attributing to me mad paranoid intentions of strategic world dominion via facebook. i was able to make it clear to her that i have no intention of ever contacting her husband again and that my entire energy and focus is on rebuilding my marriage. when she finally heard this, really heard it from me after 2 hours of accusations and badgering me, she actually began to cry and reached out for my hands, and said that she was so happy that my husband and i were emerging from this better than before, and that she has only ever wanted our happiness.

 

i think she will be able to put to rest the notion that i am hiding behind every corner, which will make her feel safer and therefore make me feel safer. all in all, productive. i'm glad i went, despite the very loving and wise advice of the LS crew. it could have been REAL ugly, and there were a couple of hairy moments. but i tried to stand in the middle, as i have done with her from the first: accept her anger and validate it, while not allowing her to become abusive and objectifying, not defend the things i did that were terribly, terribly wrong while at the same time not taking on more responsibility than is mine to carry. it seemed to be effective in the final analysis.

 

now i hope i don't hear from her again!!!!! ai dios. there is a BIG glass of wine sitting in front of me right now.

 

thanks again for your guidance and support, y'all. even though i did something different, the validation that i am not crazy gave me the strength to stay in my truth and protect my own boundaries while at the same time being respectful of her pain and anger. much love.

[boldjack]

Dobiliere' My Red-headed Temptress, I am glad your meet went well and am properly chagrined that my advice was wrong. Now, please don't contact either of them again!!! I gave your name a French pronuciation, how do you like it?

[dobler33]

Dobiliere' My Red-headed Temptress, I am glad your meet went well and am properly chagrined that my advice was wrong. Now, please don't contact either of them again!!! I gave your name a French pronuciation, how do you like it?

 

 

holy self-preservation, batman. you KNOW i ain't contacting either of them again unless absolutely effing necessary - she and i set up strategies for dealing with any unavoidable social contact, that if either of us was aware of something that could not be got out of we would email the other and strategize accordingly, like who will bow out, that kind of thing. but him? HAILS no. it is amazing to me how he has twisted this into me pursuing him, according to her, anyway. whatever. doesn't matter. it is done and ended on as positive a note as could be hoped for (she gave me a hug???), and i am hoping like hell never to have to deal with either of them ever again. let them rip each other's eyes out and leave mine alone, you know?

 

i am LOVING the francaise, jack l'intrepide. o la la.

[boldjack]

I really don't know if French suits you. You live on the West Coast.....Hmmmm.... I know. How about I call you Gidget? You know "Gidget goes to Hawaii", Gidget goes to Medical school, Gidget chases weird, married guys, that sort of thing.:D

[whichwayisup]

Can't you put him on block on your facebook? This way you never see him. It's like he just doesn't exist, even if he posts something on a mutual friends page, you won't see it.

[boldjack]

I saved the best for last.....GIDGET THE RED-HEADED TEMPTRESS..........HELL YEAH!!!:D:D:D

[dobler33]

I really don't know if French suits you. You live on the West Coast.....Hmmmm.... I know. How about I call you Gidget? You know "Gidget goes to Hawaii", Gidget goes to Medical school, Gidget chases weird, married guys, that sort of thing.:D

 

 

that is creepy, jack l'intrepide (which i am TOTALLY gonna call you from now on ), because my first name starts with a g and i have been nicknamed gidget in the past, although not for any intrinsic chipperness or proclivity toward prancing about in a cadillac-sized bikini.

 

i can't seem to figure out how to change my screen name, though, and it feels more and more like an imperative to do so, if only to rid myself of the last traces of this trauma. i think i mentioned that it was an xOM-related reference to "say anything" - he was sort of the quintessential lloyd dobler and we watched it together cause he'd never seen it. now everytime i see the name i cringe at how distraught and destroyed i was, seeking even the smallest link to him, naming myself after him, for sh*t's sake. it is hard to imagine, when you finally emerge from the fog, how desperate that kind of pain will make you. you try to give yourself a little break, a little forgiveness, but when i look back at the copious amounts of bleeding i did because of him it's tough not to want to pull my sweater over my face and die of embarrassment.

 

any ideas on how to change a screen name, folks?

[dobler33]

Can't you put him on block on your facebook? This way you never see him. It's like he just doesn't exist, even if he posts something on a mutual friends page, you won't see it.

 

can you do that? he's off my friend list, as is she, but can you make him just disappear? wish i'd known that when she was coming at me with my apparent plan to steal her life away by exchanging bread recipes. i'll check it out, thanks.

[dobler33]

I saved the best for last.....GIDGET THE RED-HEADED TEMPTRESS..........HELL YEAH!!!:D:D:D

 

 

you got me bang to rights, l'intrepide. i need a gods damn t-shirt.

 

thanks for making me laugh.