just got a call from BW...

[IfWishesWereHorses]

you look back and start seeing the f*ckwittage of this man you thought was so great and it's hard not to reel a bit. it's kind of a good thing, really. clear vision is always a good thing

 

Thats why they call it "the fog" I guess. I think with all those feel good chemicals firing off, its hard to see the trees for the forest.

[dobler33]

Focus on yourself and how messed up you must have been to not see who he was and what you were doing to your friend and husband. Not much you can do about him. I expect he feels you are messed up, as well. I mean, heck, you were screwing around with your friend's husband. That is really out there.

 

it is, isn't it? thanks for reminding me, reg. that thought only occurs to me at least 50 times every single day. thank goodness i have you to make sure i never forget. phew, huh?

 

you look back and start seeing the f*ckwittage of this man you thought was so great and it's hard not to reel a bit. it's kind of a good thing, really. clear vision is always a good thing

 

Thats why they call it "the fog" I guess. I think with all those feel good chemicals firing off, its hard to see the trees for the forest.

 

at the time the forest looked like an acid-feuled dr. seuss hallucination. the trees were pink and blue and growing upside down. i think maybe the lorax was there. those are some beefy feel-good chemicals indeed.

[boldjack]

Well, you know what they say. "Better living through science".

[NoIDidn't]

Focus on yourself and how messed up you must have been to not see who he was and what you were doing to your friend and husband. Not much you can do about him. I expect he feels you are messed up, as well. I mean, heck, you were screwing around with your friend's husband. That is really out there.

 

I think that HE was messing with his BEST FRIEND'S W is just as bad.

 

Messed up all around. And he hasn't even faced his FORMER best friend since.

 

No offense to dobie, but I often wonder what goes through the minds of people that cause friendships to end in this manner?

 

Again, no offense to dobie, just my rambling. My H and his best friend are really close - including their parents before my ILs passed. I could NEVER do that to those families. My H isn't the most courageous man I know, but I would hope he would face his friend if he had the gall to sleep with his W.

[Reggie]

No problem. Cut down to 45 times a day and decrease, gradually.

[dobler33]

I think that HE was messing with his BEST FRIEND'S W is just as bad.

 

Messed up all around. And he hasn't even faced his FORMER best friend since.

 

No offense to dobie, but I often wonder what goes through the minds of people that cause friendships to end in this manner?

 

Again, no offense to dobie, just my rambling. My H and his best friend are really close - including their parents before my ILs passed. I could NEVER do that to those families. My H isn't the most courageous man I know, but I would hope he would face his friend if he had the gall to sleep with his W.

 

luckily i never slept with him, much to his chagrin. and as for what was going through my mind, i could try to describe it to you but i think it would sound much as it felt: see above description of mad seussian psychosis. i could tell you what he said was going through his mind, but honestly i don't know if he really knew either. i look back and can't really believe it happened, can't believe i fell for it, can't believe i lost my bearings so much that i hurt my husband and his wife that way. i can only imagine that he must feel the same way, although it does seem that he has, for the benefit of his wife and perhaps himself, rewritten history to reflect the evil redheaded temptress narrative. and you know what? as long as they stay away from me and my family they can believe whatever daft shared fairytale they need to. perhaps i can also turn myself into a frog. who knows. i'm out of that crazy forest and i'm GLAD.

[jj33]

Dobler if it makes you feel any better you dont have to be a redhead to be rewritten in history (even if only in jest) as the temptress - even by someone who pursued me for years. I seduced him, I was a temptress. He was unable to resist my charms....

 

He said it in jest many times but there is truth in all jokes...

[dobler33]

Dobler if it makes you feel any better you dont have to be a redhead to be rewritten in history (even if only in jest) as the temptress - even by someone who pursued me for years. I seduced him, I was a temptress. He was unable to resist my charms....

 

He said it in jest many times but there is truth in all jokes...

 

 

do you remember the recent thread about MM blaming the OW for their affairs? seems to be a theme.

[jj33]

It takes two to tango. We are all responsible for our actions. Pretty sure none of us forced ourselves on the MMs nor so far as I am aware, did they force themselves on us.

 

So the blame game is pretty unproductive from all sides.

 

To some degree, I think everyone rewrites history to suit their own circumstances.

 

Some people need to believe the other person was a b*stard or a temptress, others need to blame the spouse or whoever else suits them.

 

It happens in most relationships. The dynamics just tend to be more complicated in affairs.

 

NC is absolutely killing me. The more personal feelings aside, really feeling the pinch at work. Even when our contact lessened, he was still my closest confidante, person I brainstormed with etc etc and it could take years to replace that. But it had to be done.

 

I think he feels relieved. I dont know as we havent spoken at all and he has stopped all other contact now too but that is my sense. I suppose it will get easier as the weeks and months pass. I know it was the only answer but a big part of me feels like I made a huge mistake.

 

But there is no turning back now. I got what I wanted. I dont think he will ever speak to me again unless he really has to in order to avoid "losing face".

[dobler33]

It takes two to tango. We are all responsible for our actions. Pretty sure none of us forced ourselves on the MMs nor so far as I am aware, did they force themselves on us.

 

So the blame game is pretty unproductive from all sides.

 

To some degree, I think everyone rewrites history to suit their own circumstances.

 

Some people need to believe the other person was a b*stard or a temptress, others need to blame the spouse or whoever else suits them.

 

It happens in most relationships. The dynamics just tend to be more complicated in affairs.

 

NC is absolutely killing me. The more personal feelings aside, really feeling the pinch at work. Even when our contact lessened, he was still my closest confidante, person I brainstormed with etc etc and it could take years to replace that. But it had to be done.

 

I think he feels relieved. I dont know as we havent spoken at all and he has stopped all other contact now too but that is my sense. I suppose it will get easier as the weeks and months pass. I know it was the only answer but a big part of me feels like I made a huge mistake.

 

But there is no turning back now. I got what I wanted. I dont think he will ever speak to me again unless he really has to in order to avoid "losing face".

 

 

sounds like you're hurting today, honey. i'm sending you love. it doesn't sound like you made a big mistake, it sounds like you made a necessary boundary. when we set up boundaries we create a within and a without. it can be lonely inside the within, particularly if you are used to having him in there with you. it is a painful process, boudary-setting, which is why so many folks don't like doing it. hang in there. sounds like you're doing the right thing.

 

hugs to you.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I know it was the only answer but a big part of me feels like I made a huge mistake.

 

Which is better, the feeling of relief...knowing for sure another issue won't crop up... or feeling like it was a mistake. You finally cut the cord because you KNEW it was the only choice. Nothing else worked. I have a feeling before too long you'll shake your head and wonder what took so long.

[jj33]

Thanks and sorry for the t/j. Im bereft and feeling so lost and vulnerable. Its really hard to do everything all on my own and I havent had to do that until now... its just so overwhelming. I should have thought this through a lot better rather than just snapping and bringing the whole thing crashing down without a contingency plan.

[jasminetea]

JJ33, you can handle this situation, your strength is very evident in your posts. Believe in yourself.

[jj33]

Thanks Jasmine. Its so much easier to help others than it is to take the advice yourself!!

 

Whats that old Woody Allen line wouldnt it be nice if neurosis etc were attrractive? Am feeling a bit hopeless. But I suppose everything always works out one way or another. I keep telling myself I have every reason to be happy being depressed is just so much self indulgence. But somehow I find myself in floods of tears at the drop of a hat.

[LaGazelle]

It takes two to tango. We are all responsible for our actions. Pretty sure none of us forced ourselves on the MMs nor so far as I am aware, did they force themselves on us.

 

So the blame game is pretty unproductive from all sides.

 

To some degree, I think everyone rewrites history to suit their own circumstances.

 

Some people need to believe the other person was a b*stard or a temptress, others need to blame the spouse or whoever else suits them.

 

It happens in most relationships. The dynamics just tend to be more complicated in affairs.

 

.

 

JJ, this may well be your experience, but it is not the full picture of infidelity in general.

 

The OW in my situation, took a 14 hr train ride from her country to my H's and presented herself on his doorstep in the guise of coming to visit his friend who was renting a suite at my H's place. I won't even go into her desperate emails and online chat attempts. However, there are many OW like her, you see it all the time here on LS and similar forums. Not all women are "victims" in affairs, some wilfully chase after MM, and put themselves in a position where they try to compete with the wife. Of cpourse the MM in this situation is wholly responsible for his response to such pursuit, but it is simply not true that OW generally don't actively encourage or pursue affairs.

[NoIDidn't]

JJ, this may well be your experience, but it is not the full picture of infidelity in general.

 

The OW in my situation, took a 14 hr train ride from her country to my H's and presented herself on his doorstep in the guise of coming to visit his friend who was renting a suite at my H's place. I won't even go into her desperate emails and online chat attempts. However, there are many OW like her, you see it all the time here on LS and similar forums. Not all women are "victims" in affairs, some wilfully chase after MM, and put themselves in a position where they try to compete with the wife. Of cpourse the MM in this situation is wholly responsible for his response to such pursuit, but it is simply not true that OW generally don't actively encourage or pursue affairs.

 

I think what JJ was saying is that regardless of who pursued whom, the outcome is still the same if both people submitted to the affair.

 

If the OW that you mention was turned away at the door, I could see blaming her for her attempt. But since she became the OW, I think its fruitless to speak of her "desperate" emails if they apparently worked and he cheated with her.

 

Like JJ said, no one was really forced here. Even manipulation in most cases (like the person is not mentally disabled or neurologically challenged) is not force.

[jj33]

Exactly NID. They were clearly not desparate "attempts" they were succesful.

 

And La Gazelle you have clearly "bought" your H's story. If you cant trust him not to be seduced by people coming to visit his guests then how do you trust him when he goes to work in the morning? (personally it sounds like a porn movie plot to me - she came from another country just to seduce him pretending to be there to see his friend, wearing only suspenders under her raincoat or dressed as little red riding hood? Wow. He must really be something....)

 

There are always people who are attracted to and interested in other people, married or not. And as my grandmother used to say, some things have not changed throughout history, the choice was always the same - you either said yes, or you said no.

 

So whether its the friend of the friend who shamelessly came onto him, the trashy mother at the soccer game, the hot new temp at the office... its incumbent upon him to keep it zipped.

 

To say otherwise is to suggest that he is a helpless male out there alone in the world in the face of all these temptresses... (redheaded or not) If this is your view of the world, then you are going to have a problem because there are no safe harbors, and your man is always at risk of falling victim to these women. Many people do believe this and so forgive their men for their foibles because after all they are men and weak to the temptations of the opposite sex.

 

 

That is not a view to which I subscribe. What I was saying is there are no victims here - not the OP and not the MP.

 

Simlarly neither of them can blame the other for their plight unless the OP was tricked into thinking the MP was single and then didnt get out when they learned the truth.

[NoIDidn't]

There are always people who are attracted to and interested in other people, married or not. And as my grandmother used to say, some things have not changed throughout history, the choice was always the same - you either said yes, or you said no.

 

Our grandmothers must be related. Both of mine were the OW though. And back then La Gazelle's logic worked on the W quite well. But we know that blaming any one person in an actual affair is pointless. They both chose it. If they hadn't, someone was raped.

[jj33]

I have to say grandmothers' logic does work pretty well.

 

So anyway back to Dobler (and thank you all for your support) Dobler you may be the hottest singer east AND west of the Missisippi, but the man was open for business there is just no other explanation.

 

the issue of your friendship is a whole different story but the question of blaming you for his infidelity? I dont think so....

 

as I said if a man doesnt know how to keep his zipper up the world becomes a very very dangerous place

 

My Mom worked with children and has always maintained that parentst get too competitive about how quickly children learn to dress themselves or masster potty training. Unless a child has real developmental problems the speed at which they learn these things isnt something to get hung up about. By the time they are in 1st grade most children without serious disabilities can go to the bathroom by themselves. In kindergarten they may still need help with zippers and buttons.

 

But by the time a man is old enough to marry? At that point, if he cant keep the zip up, and dont know that you dont show your privates to women other than your wife, its not the teacher's fault and its certainly not the fault of the other children in the class.

 

Hang in there Dobler. If they didnt have issues, he wouldnt have been open for business. His W just needs to believe that its you because she cant believe that he would do what he did.

[dobler33]

I have to say grandmothers' logic does work pretty well.

 

So anyway back to Dobler (and thank you all for your support) Dobler you may be the hottest singer east AND west of the Missisippi, but the man was open for business there is just no other explanation.

 

the issue of your friendship is a whole different story but the question of blaming you for his infidelity? I dont think so....

 

as I said if a man doesnt know how to keep his zipper up the world becomes a very very dangerous place

 

My Mom worked with children and has always maintained that parentst get too competitive about how quickly children learn to dress themselves or masster potty training. Unless a child has real developmental problems the speed at which they learn these things isnt something to get hung up about. By the time they are in 1st grade most children without serious disabilities can go to the bathroom by themselves. In kindergarten they may still need help with zippers and buttons.

 

But by the time a man is old enough to marry? At that point, if he cant keep the zip up, and dont know that you dont show your privates to women other than your wife, its not the teacher's fault and its certainly not the fault of the other children in the class.

 

Hang in there Dobler. If they didnt have issues, he wouldnt have been open for business. His W just needs to believe that its you because she cant believe that he would do what he did.

 

 

LOL!!! your developmental "zipper theory" of infidelity had me on my arse, jj. love it. thanks for the laugh.

 

how you holding today?

[jj33]

Glad it gave you a laugh. Actually thought you would chuckle more at the porn plot comment above... but perhaps that sounded snide it wasnt meant that way.

 

Well we are back to being deleriously in love in each others presence however minimal (less than 2 minutes and I split - comments about our rapport in less than 30 seconds from a colleague) So theres a reason people tell you not to be in contact with them. I have to say in my defense I did not approach him. Highly embarrassing that someone else was wow you two... noone ever commented on the way we are together before. I laughed and put my arm around him and said I love him, and smiled... I didnt look at him as I said it but I do wonder what he thought.... in light of recent events...

 

Shocking I never thought I would feel this way about him again. Thought I was hanging onto a ghost of what was. Its odd. All these years later... without any sex to keep the flames going? Really weird. Just highlights how much I need to detach. And what a coward I have been not to try harder to do it before.

 

Hows your H?