Because I don't feel crappy enough...

[NoIDidn't]

The mixed messages he is sending aren't only being sent to her. They are being sent to you as well, but you are too busy coming up with reasons and excuses to see them clearly.

 

Loved this part. Very true.

 

She's too busy with the smoke screen he's hiding behind, (his BWs behavior) than with the real issue (his ambivalence).

[bentnotbroken]

How is the view from that high horse? I honestly never ever thought I'd cheat or be involved in a situation like this. If you'd have told me so 5 years ago, I'd have said you were nuts. Sometimes, there are parts of ourselves that we don't like to admit are there because they aren't pretty. You can look down your nose at me all you want, but we'll see how you feel if you should ever find yourself a cheater or with a cheater you love.

 

Similarly, a friend used to give me big attitude about the EA I had on my husband. Guess what? She's had two physical affairs now. My MM used to teach marriage classes and be mr. morality to his friends that had affairs. The universe sees sanctimoniousness like this and reminds us that we are all human, capable of all things. Sometimes you find yourself surprised at yourself.

 

 

Only when you lie to yourself and don't really know who you are and what you are capable of. You only surprise yourself when you refuse to set boundaries and stick to them no matter how much you want to dive head first into trouble. Your assumption that everyone will cheat isn't quite accurate. That is a set boundary that some people have and nothing can make them cross it. On the other hand, boundaries in other areas maybe weak and easily crossed. Drugs, alcohol, food, and in my case anger are a few that come to mind.

[bentnotbroken]

I agree, and supposedly these are all things he's working on in therapy. He has told her it's over on numerous occasions, but it's usually been in an angry conversation and not consistent. He is supposed to have the kids over tomorrow night and this weekend. So I will know in short order if he's capable of following thorugh on what he tells me there. I keep trying to tell him that although her immediate reaction may be bad, it's much kinder to tell her the truth (if it is the truth) than string her along. But he's in such fear (and he says, paralyzed by guilt), he can't bring himself to do that consistently and calmly yet.

 

 

Nope, he's just a coward.

[bentnotbroken]

Chocolat,

I dont' disagree with you. It's just that I get the impression from a lot of the posts that people seem to think one should stay in their marriage no matter what. In my case, I shouldn't have gotten married in the first place, and if MM is to be believed he shouldn't have either, due to a lot of prior existing problems in both our relationships. At any rate, it's just that I reject the idea that people should choose misery and choose it for their "kids sake", only to have them repeat the same mistake as adults. Going back to the wife ISN't always better. For some people it may well be, but not every single last one.

 

 

This may well be the impression you got because you need to believe that. But what you got, if you will go back and read, see, digest and understand the words that were posted. Most people told you where these things:

 

1)You are at least 33% responsible for what your children endured.

 

2) You participated in the gas lighted of another human being, another mother no less.

 

3) She isn't responsible for being a role model for your children and you aren't responsible or qualified to tell her how to parent her own.

 

4)The jerk she is married to and you are sleeping with should have done the right thing and leave before he decided to lie to her, sleep with you, gal light her and disrespect his vows and her.

 

5) NO one stated that he should stay with her. I would wager if any of us knew who he and his wife were we would be more than willing to help him move on.

 

6) Cheating isn't right, no matter what lies are told to the BS or the lies that AP tell themselves to help them deal with the actions they are perpetrating on someone else's peace.

 

 

The drama you have displayed on this board hasn't shed any new light on the character of the man in question. NO one called you whore, harlot or talked about what an awful person you were. That was your over dramatization of how you THINK people were viewing you. I for one don't need in help to voice my opinion of you and I doubt other posters need help either. We are intelligent enough to voice our thoughts in a manner that their will be no assumptions necessary.

[NoIDidn't]

And, what does IMO, and JMO mean?

 

It doesn't look like anyone deciphered these for you yet:

 

IMO - in my opinion

 

JMO - just my opinion

[Chocolat]

I agree with you. The trouble is, I've tried to implement this before and couldn't stick with it. Now, unlike the last times, he's saying he won't come back to me if I leave him now.

 

This is not good. It suggests that he sees you as a better choice than his W but not that his W is no longer a choice. In other words, if you leave him, he'll stay put. So how bad is being there, really? I am playing devil's advocate a bit, so please do not take this the wrong way.

 

Anything worth having is worth waiting for. If he can't take a month or two to get his stuff together, make a clean break with the W, establish a workable r/s and visitation with his kids, etc., etc., then what exactly is the deal here?

 

We're in this vicious cycle of fear - fear for me that he won't follow through, and for him - fear that I'll leave him. The W keeps harping on this idea that I will leave him in the dust if he finalizes things with her, and it eats at him. He always considered her "safe" - probably not unrelated to the fact that she is SOOOO dependent. I have my issues, but I am not dependent the way she is. (I should mention that there's about 15 years between us, so it's easy for her to take potshots that I'll leave him for someone younger, etc.)

 

The problem with this, as I know you know, is that a r/s based on fear is not going to work. All the negative emotions swirling around you create a heightened sense of "rightness" when you are together, but ultimately, the goal is for the two of you to be together without any drama, and be happy in each other's company, Trust is a huge part of that picture. If he's going to be constantly worried b/c you are younger, and you're going to be worried because he cheated once and you're not entirely sure of his backbone, well... this does not paint an optimistic picture. Which is why I recommend a short break. If your r/s is too weak to sustain a month or two apart, what does that say about its long-term propects?

 

I don't want to lose the R altogether, so I feel unable to break off until he resolves it.

 

I will venture to say that the only hope for not losing the r/s is to give it a break. No, I don't mean that he will walk (or that you will) right now. But the wear and tear he is putting you through (and that he perceives you are putting him through) and overall lack of trust will ultimately do you in, imo.

 

Relationships cannot survive without trust.

[MizzBlue72]

I still think the BW is WAY out of bounds here. KIDS never should be involved in adult relations - EVER.

The BW needs to take a step back .. redirect this towards the MM.

I recommend NC with this MM, and focus on your family. Focus on your kids, and get a restraining order on the BW. If she does it again, call the cops. You have to look our for yourself and your kids.

[tami-chan]

Sounds like traits shared by both women, since they both want a punk with no backbone.

 

LOL...well...some men are lucky, huh? lol....

[fooled once]

You are scared to take a break because he will leave you? That is kinda scary. Are you worried he is going to stay with his wife if you want a break? And if that is your fear, then damn, this is more of a mess than I thought.

 

So he is going to leave you if you step back; after all the crap he has put you through? After his wife 'stalking' you? After all this -- he is threatening you that if you want to step back while HE truly separates from his wife then he is going to dump you? OMG - he has a lot of nerve. What a jerk.

 

You are having to tell him the boundaries he should have with his ex? He needs someone to tell him to either sh*t or get off the pot? You have to tell him to not sleep over there (and sorry, as much as you say he isn't, I don't believe it for a second and I don't believe he slept alone when he slept over there). YOU have to tell him that leaving some personal stuff there is NOT a good idea? He can't figure this out himself? Oh wait, he is a coward and a liar, I forgot.

 

I really think you deserve better and I really think YOU know you deserve better.

 

You deserve to be #1 with the man you are dating. You deserve that the man you are dating is single; not married. Your children deserve to have a man of character around them. They deserve someone who is trustworthy, loyal and of character. They deserve someone who is a good role model, someone to mentor them.

 

YOU did do the right thing in regards to ending your marriage BEFORE starting an affair.

 

HE isn't. Hell, he didn't even file for divorce; his wife did. I wonder if he ever would have. And I 1000% believe the only reason he even called her lawyer about being served was because of YOU pushing him. He would have kept this game up for a lot longer, IMHO. But YOU, knowing it was wrong, have been prodding him to get the ball rolling.

 

WHY don't you think you deserve better? Why don't you think your children deserve better?

 

As for his wife's actions --- unless you have walked in her shoes, it really isn't right to judge her or her actions. Was she over the line to yell at you in front of your kids? Maybe -- but come on, didn't you have that coming by sleeping with her husband? Yes, her husband deserves her anger too - and I am sure he is getting it. But you are culpable in this. And I believe you do know that.

 

I am amazed that your family and friends are okay with your dating someone else's husband. I can't believe they are supportive of it. I realize it is your life; but ....... you are also a mom and you have a duty to protect yoru children, shield them from dishonorable people and to provide them with as much of a drama free life from their mom as possible.

 

Please step back from him; no matter how much he threatens you. Do you really think he will follow through on it; considering he doesn't seem to be able to follow through with anything else?

 

I hope you can see what the rest of us see; I know you have feelings for him. But I hope you can rise about your needs and put what your children need above those.

 

And I hope that he does "dump you" and you can go on to find a mature, strong, respectful man to spend your life with and to have in your children's lives.

[MistyK]

You are scared to take a break because he will leave you? That is kinda scary. Are you worried he is going to stay with his wife if you want a break? And if that is your fear, then damn, this is more of a mess than I thought.

 

No, I'm pretty sure it's crap. I think he knows no one else with put up with what I've put up with. But I have a serious abandonment issue, and he knows just what buttons to push.

 

So he is going to leave you if you step back; after all the crap he has put you through? After his wife 'stalking' you? After all this -- he is threatening you that if you want to step back while HE truly separates from his wife then he is going to dump you? OMG - he has a lot of nerve. What a jerk.

 

Undisputed.

 

You are having to tell him the boundaries he should have with his ex? He needs someone to tell him to either sh*t or get off the pot? You have to tell him to not sleep over there (and sorry, as much as you say he isn't, I don't believe it for a second and I don't believe he slept alone when he slept over there). YOU have to tell him that leaving some personal stuff there is NOT a good idea? He can't figure this out himself? Oh wait, he is a coward and a liar, I forgot.

 

Actually, for a while there he made me psychotic enough that I was feeling his bathtub in the mornings after he would have left for work and other signs he'd slept at his own house. That was before one of the last times I left him. Now he calls me every night from his house so I can see he's home. I didn't ask him to do this, he just does because he knows he made me nuts about it.

 

As for his wife's actions --- unless you have walked in her shoes, it really isn't right to judge her or her actions. Was she over the line to yell at you in front of your kids? Maybe -- but come on, didn't you have that coming by sleeping with her husband? Yes, her husband deserves her anger too - and I am sure he is getting it. But you are culpable in this. And I believe you do know that.

 

I know what you're saying. Still, she hasn't walked in mine and everyone's judging me for it. I think it's a fairly natural response to a bull**** situation like this.

 

I am amazed that your family and friends are okay with your dating someone else's husband. I can't believe they are supportive of it. I realize it is your life; but ....... you are also a mom and you have a duty to protect yoru children, shield them from dishonorable people and to provide them with as much of a drama free life from their mom as possible.

 

No no, I said HIS family is supportive. MY family hates him, as do my friends for the way he's treated me. My therapist, his therapist and his mom all have advised me to leave him for my own good because of how screwy he is right now. None of this is new, it's just that for whatever reason, if there's only 1% that's good, that's what I want to hold onto.

 

You are correct, he called the lawyer to be served as a result of my prodding. He doesn't do much unless it's under threat of me leaving, and even then he admits he slows up on purpose because he resents my nagging. I already know that a**-holish, no need to tell me that. He is supposedly sick of feeling controlled by the W and sometimes he reacts to me as if I'm her, or that's the excuse anyway.

 

I don't have a partner, I have a dog I drag by the neck towards the park exit while his nose is stuck in his wife's rear (excuse the crude metaphor). I know, I know. I feel so weak and lame.

[ForumFool]

I am going to quote both of us to show your post in no way reflected the kids were with her in your post...you added that..I am doubtful it is factual and even if it was I doubt if she came in alone you would have stayed out of the closet..Naked as a jay bird..I would have dumped him so fast when I heard him lie and gaslight her....I wonder WHY YOU cannot seem to get it and just want to be/play the victim...Sure this lady is a nutjob shes been gaslighted..Now you may be next because you keep posting about how he can mess with your head too...my point is...WHY IS THAT A SURPRISE TO YOU...? You knew he has was a gaslighter..Its not your A that blows me away it's how you will not see this man and yourself for what you both have done to cause all these issues...And I am stunned that you want to STAY with this guy...Nothing sounds GOOD about him...his lack of action (and both your actions have put you and your kids in danger..due to the wife he drove crazy..or at least part way) ...I don't think he should stay with her....I don't think you should stay with him I fear for BOTH you and the wife...and the kids..

 

You have a way of only reading and hearing PARTS of what people say to you...People are telling you..trying to help you..to get away from this dude at least for a while...cause its all toxic..YOU read we name call...YOUR BEHAVIOR as stated hiding in the closet is trashy retarded crack ho....nobody said YOU were...Do you see the difference?

 

You remind me of another OW who held on to a MM for years and got all defensive when people would tell her they WERE ..THEY BEING WIFE sleeping together and so on and to get away...in the end he dumped the OW..YOU MAY want to take some of the very well meaning advice in here......and THINK not react to what you think you are reading but what was left for you to think about...In the end it may lead to a better life for you and YOUR KIDS

 

I would not want this toxic disaster of a man..MR GASLIGHTer (as you stated even to YOU) near my kids...nor his driven crazy wife.....

 

Run Forrest Run..run as fast as you can away from this man.....Work on you and your kids and GET OUT OF THIS UNHAPPY life style you are in....

 

I wonder what you will do if you ever WIN this prize and he f*&ks with your kids heads like he has with you and his wife

 

As a side bar I am sure you are somewhat sorry but at the same time saying you are sorry to someone//even meaning it..doesnt make them not hurt .....

 

You need to work on keeping your kids safe and showing a good example..THEY should come first not some clown who threatens to leave you if you take a long break from him...Frankly I think his wife is less a threat to your kids than he is....and YOU dont help by sticking around him...

 

fire playing

 

 

 

First I want to say I am sorry you put yourself and kids in danger ...be careful.

 

I wanted also to point a few things out so you can see them away from all the talk in here and think on them

 

You keep saying she has no right to do this and that with HER kids...who gave you that right? Her kids are none of your business

 

You have stated her kids say this and that but how do you know what they said?. You never met them and have stated mm wants to wait for you and the kids to meet...um did it ever hit you maybe THEY know..kids arent stupid..and KNEW before mom started yelling things..if she did....and they hate you and think you are a whore all on their own? Did it ever enter your mind they just may not LIKE their dad all on their own?

 

You have posted in this thread a few times how MM makes you crazy and you know he must have done so to her.......and then you mention YOU HID in a closet

while he gaslighted her over YOUR panties Holy cow...how can you live with yourself? You watched the man mess with someone's head and let it pass...and now you wonder why she has lost her mind...You allowed your honey of a man to mess with another human beings head and you wonder why this is coming back to bite you and your kids.

 

He sleeps with his wife....still.....

 

You left your marriage before you messed around as to do it right...showing some sense of integrety but yet you didn't DEMAND the same from this dude?

 

YOU PLAYED WITH FIRE AND ..when you do... you know what....the house burns and everthing in it...thus you set your kids up.....Get rid of the dude and keep your legs together...keep out of closets ...that is retarded crack ho type behavior....and your kids will not be put in dangerous situations. YOU ....YOU made the choice to date a man who was not as single as you were...IF you had said NO get a divorce first....your kids would not have to hear what a whore you are and whatever else she yelled out the window....If you had broken up with him when you heard him emotionally abuse his wife while you were in the closet....this would not be happening.....Didn't the word CREEP cross your mind?....I don't feel sorry for you because you are reaping what you sowed.

 

I feel sorry for his wife...she was emotionally abused by both of you. (HINT: Think back to hiding in the closet allowing this gem of a MM to gaslight his wife over your panties.....that was despicable of YOU as well as MM)

[ForumFool]

The KIDS were were with. You wanted me to spring from the closet I suppose. Is that OK? Cause I think that's much worse. But hey, ANYTHING I Do must be wrong as I'm clearly a wanton whore. Thanks so much for pointing that out. That's so terribly helpful.

 

Do you think you are a wanton whore? I didn't say that..I think its cruel to allow another human being to be mindf*&ed..Maybe not having sex in any place his wife could come to like a motel if you must would have been a better choice..and dumping him after you heard how cruel he was to his wife emotionally..maybe she has abandonment issues and as I said before is LOOKING back at all this...knowing the truth and it;s made her crazy

[Mino]

I'm with you. I've tried to do this sort of inventory before and it comes out ok, until I compare it to the inventory on stuff he's doing to not end the M, and then i get confused again.

 

To review, here's what he's actively done to end the marriage: He sought out and purchased another house all on his won. He moved in with his personal effects and hasn't moved back. He's refused any further marriage counseling. He has set up concrete custody and Support plans with her lawyer. When it became clear the W was purposely not having him served with the D paperwork to delay things, he called her lawyer and asked to be served immediately (which he was). He stopped sleeping over there. He's told her that he isn't in love with her (despite loving her as the mother of his kids) and cannot live with her (I've seen the email proof of this). He signed off on her car, changed his credit card account numbers, and opened new accounts for himself. He has told his therapist and all his family members that he intends to divorce her and be with me. They are all supportive of this (save the church official, which is to be expected). He did not purchase anything for or celebrate their anniversary last month and hasn't worn his wedding ring for at least 6 months. After the incident on Sunday, he told her he'd testify for me and was on my side.

 

Now here's the flip side: He still has his second car and some other non-essentially belongings that he REFUSES to move out of there because he seems to think that doing so will upset the kids. When she asks about the future of the marriage, whether he's still in touch with me, or whether he'll come home, he ususally doesn't say anything at all (supposedly because he thinks that being honest with her is rubbing her nose in it). He slept over there about a dozen times since he moved out (supposedly in another room and that has stopped finally). He hasn't actually had the kids over at his house since the split (out of courtesy to her feelings because she staunchly opposed this), and spends hours every day at the marital home "to visit the kids".

 

Now, just by eyeballing, you can see the lists are roughly equivalent in size. How the hell do I decipher that?

easy, he is still giving her some hope, maybe he told her he is confussed and needs time before finalizing D. Listen they are several red falgs here.... Spending the night there even for ONE night is a HUGH RED FLAG. Not bringing the kids to his home is another. The new house, well that can be justified as a rental later, it is a buyers market. I can understand the not wanting her to know he is dating out of fear that she get nasty. BUT spending the night, after he moved out, gome on girl, this is sooooo not normal.

[Mino]

This according to the lying cheating immoral walking pansy.

 

 

 

If,IF IF ... If . The divorce isn't final and as far as you are concerned the separation isn't even a real separation with his things still there and spending the night occasionally.

 

 

 

 

 

Sure you're afraid, but not for her. You are afraid for yourself. You have have put your reputation on the line with neighbors, his family, your family for what? The possibility that everything you have stated will happen to her is what he is going to do to you. He decides to move on from the drama he has created with you and his wife and find someone new. Leave you looking silly and for what? The mixed messages he is sending aren't only being sent to her. They are being sent to you as well, but you are too busy coming up with reasons and excuses to see them clearly.

ahhh, Bent, I didnt think of that. According to many state laws, if he goes back, even for one night, the clock is set back to day 1 for seperation. In my state in oder to get a d, you have to be s for 12 months. One night can destroy it all. Hmm something you may want to check into

[IfWishesWereHorses]

We don't have the 12 month issue but if one goes back for the night, even only sleeping in the same bed... its back to square one.

[MistyK]

ahhh, Bent, I didnt think of that. According to many state laws, if he goes back, even for one night, the clock is set back to day 1 for seperation. In my state in oder to get a d, you have to be s for 12 months. One night can destroy it all. Hmm something you may want to check into

 

He claims it doesn't make a diff because they are living separate and apart. And professionally, he would know. However, he has in the past told me things he was supposedly confident of that later turns out to have been smoke blown up my rear - they went to MC before d-day and to make me ok with that, he told me it would avoid the 3 sessions she could force him to go to later, thatit would count ahead. Now that she is trying to force him to go again, now suddenly he's not sure what the case law is.

[MistyK]

They say that the things that annoy us most in others are the traits we own but can't admit to. What I find most maddening about MM is his constant refusal to accept reality (that he's acting like a jerk and not the martyr he pretends to be) and act in accordance with both his own and his kids' best interest. So what does that say about me?

 

Last night he sent BW another mixed signal (he dropped off his son and when she implied her should leave, he ASKED to stay to spend time with the kids there. Later, she asked the kids to go elsewhere, so they could "talk", and they spent an hour or so talking about the incident from Sunday and I'm supposed to believe he defended me.) So this morning I told him that I'm feeling like I have to protect myself from this dramatic BW because he refuses to derail the crazy train and be honest with her. Her behaviors have now gone beyond disfunctional in their relationship to impacting my family and I feel like I must act because he wont. That then led to a tirade about how tired he is of both the BW and me making him feel like a jerk and how I ought not to mention when he "disappoints" me. In fact, he called me by her name TWICE in the 1/2 hour. Isn't that nice? ANYWAY, I love how his solution is essentially: just don't tell me if I'm being a jerk because when you do, I have to look at my own behavior and I refuse to do that and change it.

 

While I like to think I'm more open to constructive criticism, as you've seen here, I do get super-defensive. Now I feel like a slug.

[fooled once]

Once again, his actions and now his words, should be like a huge blinking NEON sign for you to not walk, but full out sprint away from him.

 

Misty -- he still has deep feelings for his wife. You know it too --- deep down. But now it has become a matter of pride; you aren't going to let that bitchy mean wife win. Doesn't matter that the prize is a sack of crap; your ego is taking a hit that he seems to still have a connection with her and you are jealous and insecure about it.

 

Do you have to be struck by lightning before you see the writing on the wall?

 

And yes, in my state, there is the 12 month rule too.

[MistyK]

I am going to quote both of us to show your post in no way reflected the kids were with her in your post...you added that..I am doubtful it is factual and even if it was I doubt if she came in alone you would have stayed out of the closet..Naked as a jay bird..I would have dumped him so fast when I heard him lie and gaslight her...

 

You have a way of only reading and hearing PARTS of what people say to you...People are telling you..trying to help you..to get away from this dude at least for a while...cause its all toxic..YOU read we name call...YOUR BEHAVIOR as stated hiding in the closet is trashy retarded crack ho....nobody said YOU were...Do you see the difference?

 

 

 

Ok two things: 1) you're right that I didn't mention the kids being there, but they were. She brought them with her, unnanounced when they were supposed to be at a movie. I didn't even want to breathe because I was so afraid they would find me. I can think of few things more traumatic for a kid to walk in on. After that, we switched to hotels.

 

2) I didn't hear him gaslight her. That didn't happen until later when I wasn't around. She didn't even mention seeing the underwear at that time, was just yelling that she thought someone else was in the building. I was in a closet in which the door is NEVER normally closed and she knew this. I think she avoiding opening it because the kids were there, and because she didn't really want to see what was behind door #1. He convinced her there was something going on in the building next door and they had to leave. After they left, i grabbed my undies and snuck out. Shortly thereafter she returned to retrieve the undies for "proof", but of course they, as I was, were gone.

 

A few days later, she told him about seeing the underwear and he told her no such thing was there. I think he had her convinced for a while, but she knew better.... so she eventually convinced herself he bought them for himself as a masturbatory toy. But to this day, despite what her friends and therapist tell her, she believes there was no PA, only EA, because that's what she needs to believe.

 

Immediately my therpist expressed concern about his trying to make her think she's crazy. I hadn't really thought of it that way until she said it. But still, I found a way to justify it to myself, and I guess I expected she was smart enough to figure out he was lying on her own.

 

Ok, secondly, saying I act like a retarded crack ho vs I AM a crack ho - kinda mincing words dontcha think?

[Chocolat]

I guess I expected she was smart enough to figure out he was lying on her own.

 

Aren't you smart enough to do the same?

[SerenityX2]

Ok, secondly, saying I act like a retarded crack ho vs I AM a crack ho - kinda mincing words dontcha think?

 

There is a difference actually, but when you're in defense mode you'll likely miss it.

 

True, our behaviors "eventually" start to define us. That's why it's important to note the difference between "you're acting like..." VS "you are..."

 

See the former is stating that you are NOT that way or that type of person so why are you behaving in behavior that paints you that way? (btw I don't nec agree w/the description but for sake of agruement, it was less than honorable behavior to hide in a closet, you know that)

 

I see people trying to help you. To help you see your behaviors are damaging and if not stopped, eventually will define you.

 

Put a different way it's like if my son comes home from an exciting evening out and instead of exitedly talking to my H and I about what a good time he had, he instead starting pacing and bouncing around the room and picking up objects for emphasis to his story, he would in fact be behaving "like" a lunatic. That does not MAKE him a lunatic, but we tell someone you are acting like to hopefully help them see how they are coming across to others and get back to their true selves.

 

In all this drama and addiction you can't see this being in the thick of it, but Misty it's clear as day what he's doing to you. It's also clear that you are scared to death of "losing" thus the defense and will fight anyone or any thought that doesn't line up with your goal.

 

I wish you peace and clarity, a good and loving, respectful r'ship should never be filled with this sort of drama and grief, honestly Misty, never.

 

BTW I echo Choclat's above post, why are you with him and think the wife should step out when he's obviously gaslighting you both? Again it really is clear as day what he's doing, I hope you think on it calmly and see it for what it is.

[Gamine]

I think this is TOTALLY unacceptable of the BW NO MATTER HOW MUCH she hurts. Let her yell and her hubby ... he is the one that cheated. Totally inappropriate for in front of the kids and your neighbors. I would get a restraining order against her.

 

I am sick of always being the one to feel bad for when I or any of the rest of us were the OW, when the BW gladly lets the MM walk right back in, and it is ALL the OW's fault.

 

For a long time, I thought that I deserved for people to think of me this way - but NO MORE. When you start involving the kids, and neighbors this is pure and simple harassment.

 

When you become involved with someone who is married, you are involving yourself with the marriage. If you don't have the permission of the spouse to spend recreational time and/or have sex with their spouse you can expect backlash. What is the saying? "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...". If you can't stand the heat.... stay out of the kitchen. If you don't want another woman to attack you, don't attack her. I was tempted to send an invoice for sexual services rendered to my husband's former OMW. If you want to borrow what belongs to another person... you had better ask first...or , better yet... find a man of your own and avoid the complications.

[jwi71]

They say that the things that annoy us most in others are the traits we own but can't admit to. What I find most maddening about MM is his constant refusal to accept reality (that he's acting like a jerk and not the martyr he pretends to be) and act in accordance with both his own and his kids' best interest. So what does that say about me?

 

Last night he sent BW another mixed signal (he dropped off his son and when she implied her should leave, he ASKED to stay to spend time with the kids there. Later, she asked the kids to go elsewhere, so they could "talk", and they spent an hour or so talking about the incident from Sunday and I'm supposed to believe he defended me.) So this morning I told him that I'm feeling like I have to protect myself from this dramatic BW because he refuses to derail the crazy train and be honest with her. Her behaviors have now gone beyond disfunctional in their relationship to impacting my family and I feel like I must act because he wont. That then led to a tirade about how tired he is of both the BW and me making him feel like a jerk and how I ought not to mention when he "disappoints" me. In fact, he called me by her name TWICE in the 1/2 hour. Isn't that nice? ANYWAY, I love how his solution is essentially: just don't tell me if I'm being a jerk because when you do, I have to look at my own behavior and I refuse to do that and change it.

 

While I like to think I'm more open to constructive criticism, as you've seen here, I do get super-defensive. Now I feel like a slug.

 

You simply refuse to see and listen. Its a simple matter of "A fog". It has completely clouded your judgment and your ability to think and act rationally. You will, and have previously, admitted to this. The solution is to take a break. You refuse.

 

Despite all the red flags, the stalking, the lies, the mixed signals, the hiding in closets, the attempted vehicular assaults(!), the slurs screamed in the presence of children, family and neighbors...you persist. When faced with criticism, some sharply worded, you clam up, go into your shell and lash out at the hands trying to help you. Based on that...you will simply have to learn your lesson the hard way. You haven't been hurt enough to walk away. You haven't lost enough yet. You haven't been debased enough. You can't even take a break for fear of losing him (he who can't remember YOUR name).

 

All the advice you need has been spoken and there is nothing more to say Misty.

 

Act on it or don't...its your life and your drama. If you don't like the course this has taken...change it.

 

Act or do not. Up to YOU.

[Reggie]

On the contrary, I have admitted fault, but I am NOT 100% at fault and I'm tired of posts like this painting me like some supernatural evil seductress. And for the record, the affair wasn't about her. What an egomanical thought if she thinks it is. Nothing was intended to harm her (though arguably i knew that would be the reuslt if discovered).

 

How do you feel you were not 100% responsible for having an affair? Both you an MM are 100% responsible for the decision to cheat.

The affair was a direct attack on her. Nothing egomaniacal about realizing that.

[Reggie]

She tried to run you over with a car? Wow!! Please be careful.

 

Not sure if you watch Snapped, but it is real reality.

 

I would get an order of protection at the very least.

 

I'll eat my shorts if this really happened. We have some major embellishing going on here, IMO.