Because I don't feel crappy enough...

[silktricks]

but removing yourself from the situation until he's truly available to be with you (divorced) is the best way to handle this for your kids.

 

And for yourself - though an even better option would be to dump this guy and find someone who is a kinder - better person... (JMO)

[NoIDidn't]

Plus, I know their daughter was at home and she doesn't need the additonal trauma of the police hauling mom off.

 

But the police don't typically haul anyone off unless there is already an established paper trail AND an intact R.O..

 

Absent that, she's likely to just get a visit. And if she gets a visit, in her state of mind, she might just go off the deep end.

 

Your MM needs to take care of this. You need to start the police papertrail if you expect them to anything more than give her a slap on the wrist.

[NoIDidn't]

...but removing yourself from the situation until he's truly available to be with you (divorced) is the best way to handle this for your kids.

 

I agree with this. Its the best thing for your kids AND hers. Anything short of it, means that you are still part and parcel to this drama being visited on you.

[boldjack]

I agree with most of the posters. You need to end the relationship, even if only temporary. The drama has gotten so out of hand, that anything less will probably result in legal action. Don't try to sneak around and see him either. She will find out and that will add fuel to the fire. Why you would want to continue with him anyway is puzzling. He seems to be a total wuss.

[MistyK]

Someday could be within the next few months, if the divorce and all that does go through.

 

I'm also curioius about how your kids will feel when they learn about how you met OM, and what led to his "being with you"?

 

Again, these are all consequences of choices that all three of you have made.

 

I agree with the advice to step back for a while...let MM and his BW work out their divorce...and THEN see what relationship will be possible with MM.

 

Perhaps at that point, things will have calmed down enough that the two of you can resume a more 'normal' relationship...or you'll have had time to develop a gameplan to work through the issues that you'll be facing with kids and such.

 

Stepping back right now will probably be your only way to get out of all of this "drama", and give your kids some semblence of normalcy.

 

MM and I met through work and were friends for 4 years before anything happened. It's worth noting that during that whole time I never met his wife or acknowledged I knew him in front of her, nor do any of his other female friends and acquantances because she's been very possessive. Obviously one could argue she was that way because she sensed the wandering heart in him.

 

I realize no one will ever believe it, but the A was certainly not planned, resisted for at least 6 months, and had I not been in my own lousy marriage at the time, I doubt it ever would have happened. I left my marriage before things got physical because I didn't want to be a cheater. I wanted my marriage to succeed or fail on it's own merits and my desire to deepen the A told me which way I needed to go, regardless of what happened w MM. I still think I made the more honest choice, instead of stringing my spouse along like MM did, and I can live with myself on that one. In my marriage, the A was not the problem, it was just a symptom of things that had no hope of changing and I didn't want to live like anymore. I feel confident I did my best to make it work before the affair and I despaired when I realized nothing would get better. Likewise, he will someday have to explain some unflattering things about his own behavior to them - it is the nature of divorce. Nevertheless, the kids now see my xH and I treating each other with respect, which is way more than I got when I was married to him.

 

As far as justifying myself to my kids about having a long term affair with a married man, that's going to be tougher, because I don't like myself much for it either. (In fact, that may be part of what binds me to him - who else is going to want me, a former OW?) I can only hope that they will learn from my mistakes and not repeat them. I learned from my parents mistakes, but unfortunately I made different ones. I think that is just the nature of life.

[lkjh]

MistyK,

just because you asked him does not mean you are in the right. You knew he still lived at home with his family. You knew he still did things with his family. You never tried to ask her if they were actually separated and divorcing.

 

Ya he might have lied to you but that does not mean you can make stupid choices. You chose not to use your common sense and now you have to deal with the repercussions

[NoIDidn't]

OMG. Plenty of men will want you. Believe me, I might not have dated MM but I was the OW plenty of times. Knowingly and unknowingly. And my H STILL ADORED me when we were dating. And, yes, he knew of my checkered pass. Including the engaged guy, I had broken up with before we started dating.

 

I really think this R is bad for you. I'm really sorry that you ended your marriage on the mistaken belief that because you were seriously attracted to another meant that your marriage was over. Many people make that mistake. If I ended my marriage the first time I felt a strong attraction to another man, I would have divorced before we were married for three months. Attraction happens.

 

This man is bad for you and your kids. Very bad. Your friends sound very thoughtful and concerned for you. They are giving you good things to think about. And its GREAT that your other friend's H is a cop (forgot to say that before).

 

Don't let this situation make you agree to being an OW to a DM. This is what it looks like its heading to. You deserve better than him telling you that he's hiding the relationship for your safety. (boy this sentence brought up a bad memory, geez, lol)

[MistyK]

NID,

I didn't end my marriage over a flight of fancy. I was in my relationship for 12 years before it ended. 5 years earlier I found myself incredibly drawn to my boss and I cut it off because I knew what would happen. We went to marriage counseling - hell, we even went BEFORE we got married (maybe this should have been a red flag?), and nothing changed. Without getting into a long sad saga, suffice it to say that his addiction issues took precedence over me, the kids, and life in general. I tried to ignore it, I tried therapy for myself, I tried everything I could think of to no avail - but when someone (MM) showed me it didn't have to be that way it was like a light came on for me. How very ironic how the same person came both empower us and tear us down.

[LaGazelle]

I'm not in any way suggesting that she is responsible for him cheating. That is all him. I am only suggesting that they obviously had issues with each other before he stepped out of the marriage. We can all argue the inappropriateness of his decision to cheat vs going to counseling and trying to work it out or just leaving the honest way, but that didn't happen here. It just annoys me that suddenly I've become the CAUSE of the problem rather a symptom of it. But if that's what she needs to believe ok. My problem is her putting both my kids and her kids in the middle.

 

 

Notwithstanding statistical variances and idiosyncracies, all infidelity reasearch indicates that whereas women generally cheat if there are problems in their marriage, men will cheat in spite of being happy at home. The most common precursor to cheating for a man,was found to be opportunity and the willingness of an OW to aid him in his betrayal.

 

Saying there are always problems in the marriage for which the wife must be held responsible is just the sort of thing OW and MM tend to say to minimise culpability in affairs and to shift the blame to the victim of their indiscretion. It is not hugely dissimilar to a rapist (forgive the comparison, it is for illustrative purposes) saying that the victim "begged for it".

[LaGazelle]

I don't think I'm an innocent bystander by any stretch. Perhaps it's because I've never been in her shoes, but I guess I assume that if I were, my venom would be mostly directed at him. I do not imagine that I, or any other OW, has demonic powers of seduction no man can resist. It's ridiculous. And likewise, he did not magically hypnotize me into cheating on my xH and having an ongoing A. It just seems like OW are constantly demonized and held fully responsible while these MM are excused as "just men" with no control of themselves.

 

And again, I understand she's hurt and that she has a good reason to be pissed at me, I'm hurt too (though one could argue I brought it on myself), but how is lashing out at me, a year after d-day and he's been moved out solve anything? The only thing that makes any sense is if maybe he's telling her he wants to work it out and she found some evidence to the contrary - then it'd be a new betrayal and maybe that's something I need to give more thought to....

 

Perhaps the "anniversary" brought back heart-wrenching pain for her. Not that this is an excuse for her to try to run you over!

 

Did she really do that!? Why didn't you make an official report to the police then. If you were unable to disregard the implications for her when getting involved with her hudband, why do you bother to think about the implications of any of your other actions towards her particularly when tyou are within your rights to take those actions? Why not just report her to the police if she is indeed doing this sort of thing?

[MistyK]

Saying there are always problems in the marriage for which the wife must be held responsible is just the sort of thing OW and MM tend to say to minimise culpability in affairs and to shift the blame to the victim of their indiscretion. It is not hugely dissimilar to a rapist (forgive the comparison, it is for illustrative purposes) saying that the victim "begged for it".

 

For the last time, I'm not blaming her. No matter how bad the marriage was, there are better ways to deal with things than having an affair. My point is only that why is there NEVER any responsibility at all for the BS? Obviously there are plently of times where the spouse is blameless and just married to a jerk, but surely not all the world's affairs happen in a vacuum.

[Owl]

Not at all...

 

Both the BS and the WS are responsible for maintaining their side of the marriage.

 

If EITHER , or BOTH parties fail to hold up their end...the marriage will have troubles.

 

It could be one, the other, or both. And determining where the "fault" lies from outside the marriage is pretty darned tough...because both parties are likely to be convinced that they're blameless, and the other spouse is the problem.

 

And at the bottom line...regardless of where the "fault" lies...the choice to cheat ALWAYS lies with the spouse who cheats.

 

And cheating is always both...cause AND effect.

 

It may well be a symptom of another issue...but it's a symptom that can also kill the marriage. Think of it as a real high fever.

[MistyK]

Perhaps the "anniversary" brought back heart-wrenching pain for her. Not that this is an excuse for her to try to run you over!

 

Did she really do that!? Why didn't you make an official report to the police then. If you were unable to disregard the implications for her when getting involved with her hudband, why do you bother to think about the implications of any of your other actions towards her particularly when tyou are within your rights to take those actions? Why not just report her to the police if she is indeed doing this sort of thing?

 

There is no anniversary yet, that's a month away, I was using a rough estimate. So, no excuse for drama in that.

 

Yes, she really did that. I didn't report it for two reasons 1) If she REALLY wanted to hit me with the car, she could have. I think it was more of a "I'm watching you and I hate you" manuever. 2) I do have guilt about her pain and I thought it was an isolated incident.

 

Given her escalation and the cumulative nature of her stalking - she hired a PI to investigate me (mostly because she was hoping to find proof I was a call girl or something she could run back to MM with and trash me so he'd come back to her), she watches my comings and goings - she's told MM that she "knows my pattern" (Creepy!), she watches my mail and my trash - and there have been other occasions where she's driven by and waved when he still lived there - basically a bitchy "I won" gesture, I feel I have to be more proactive in protecting myself. I actually have to take my garbage across town because I'm so annoyed with this tendency of hers. And what is she hoping to find anyway?

 

She has lied to the people in the church and family members about things she claims I've done to taunt her, only to have to hang her head in shame and admit lying when she gets caught in her own deception. Again, I understand why she wants everyone to hate me. I get it. And us living close to each other just isn't helping, but none of this justifies her doing what she does. And last night, my concern was not for her, she pissed me off royal. My concern was for their daughter who had to listen to her scream about going to confront the whore and her embellished version of events when she came home. It is for that reason and that reason only i didn't send the cops with flashing squad car to her house.

[MistyK]

Not at all...

 

It may well be a symptom of another issue...but it's a symptom that can also kill the marriage. Think of it as a real high fever.

 

Isn't is also possible that an affair can signify that a marriage is not just sick, already dead for all qualitative purposes? I dunno, maybe that's just what i have to tell myself to sleep at night.

[bentnotbroken]

Misty -

 

I have been an OW, and after I remarried...a BS. So, I know a little bit about both " I didnt marry her", and " paying penance for my involvement."

 

From my own experience as OW, when my H cheated I didnt blame the OW. His cheating had not much to do with her. I didnt feel threatened by her because I knew the problem was my H. To me, she could have been anyone.

 

But still I felt that she had insinuated herself into MY life. Invited or not, she became an invisible (to me) player affecting MY life. That part of it had nothing to do with my H. To me, personally, it was the same as her feeling she had a right to go into my private matters, my family, etc. Like I said, invited by my H - so what? Again, this is MY life. Now, I didnt do the things this wife is doing and certainly think that doing them after he has left and filed is....unbalanced...but I DID speak to OW and told her in no uncertain terms that she had no idea what I was capable of and that now that I was on the same page as everyone else I felt completely comfortable participating in HER life as she did in mine. Did she think I was crazy? At the time, I was in a way. Did she want to take that chance? No.

 

So, like I said - this behavior after he has left and filed is not appropriate of course. But who knows what kind of gaslighting he has given her...for a long time now. Not wanting to hurt her by not being completely honest with her about her own life...is maddening.

 

She is probably a "uber-protective" mom - just as you describe yourself. She is frustrated that she has not been able to protect her family unit and is at this point focusing on you. Clearly her H doesnt want to be "the bad guy" so who knows what he has told her. Something that probably deflects the blame from him to you.

 

Now, I'm agreeing it is way wrong...but as a mother, if I felt like my family was being threatened, by anyone....it wouldnt take a lot of convincing for me to step over that line.

 

You should be very careful. This woman is not herself and may in fact be a little crazy. Hopefully, this all will pass.

 

 

Spot on. Misty wasn't married to her. She didn't make the H lie, deceive and cheat. He would have done that anyway. BUT it didn't have to be with you, you made the choice to be that person. The blame for what happened to your children is divided equally among MM, his wife and you. If you aren't in the picture, she wouldn't be doing this to you and your children...would she?

[bentnotbroken]

Thank you for sharing that. She intially found out about us through a contractor that referenced my having been in her house (it's a long story), but I understood the feeling of her house not feeling her own. Honestly, I always told MM I was extremely uncomfortable there simply for that reason, it felt like an invasion to me as well. I am not surprised that she's lashing out at me, just surprised at the timing....

 

...which makes me wonder....is there the possibility that he's telling her he's not in contact with me and that he's committed to working it out? Then her reaction makes more sense. My first reaction is to say no, because she has a tendency to rewrite history and self-delude (just her particular flavor of coping mechanism), but we're obviously dealing with someone (MM) who has a history of lying. There is the fact that he has at least consistently refused to go back to counseling with her and is pushing the divorce through, but now I'm left to wonder.....ugh.

 

Regarding the not wanting to tell her the truth to protect her....I've told him that I think that's both insulting and patronizing. I believe it makes a difficult situation harder on her, and yes, I've asked myself the inevitable question of why should I expect to be treated any differently. He says it's just that he tries to keep her calm because of her tendency to drag in her kids, but it doesn't work anyway. As stupid as it sounds, I have told him that whether he intends to go back to her or not, he needs to treat her like an adult and stop the games.

 

 

And if you insist that what she did in front of your children and neighbors had nothing to do with you or your actions, the bolded statement says you prefer this particular coping mechanism also.

[MistyK]

And if you insist that what she did in front of your children and neighbors had nothing to do with you or your actions, the bolded statement says you prefer this particular coping mechanism also.

 

I don't deny that BNB. If I had my head together, I wouldn't feel like crap all the time and would probably be working instead of spending all day here...

[bentnotbroken]

In fairness, we were always in my house or elsewhere, not their house. That would have been too weird.

 

I've resigned myself to knowing his kids will hate me - MM made sure of that when he didn't leave before being busted (apparently he wanted to be thrown out so he didn't have to feel like a bad guy leaving, but of course, she didn't throw him out so that screwed up his plans there). And BW made sure of it because she's constantly referring to me as a slut, whore, etc in front of the kids. Sadly, she could have screamed at him privately, but she seems to feel somehow redeemed by tearing him down for the kids. Why not let them figure things out themselves, why emotionally abuse them, divide their loyalty for her own selfish need to feel vindicated as being the one on the "right". How is any of that ok just because her husband and I have a relationship? Doesn't hurt me, just the kids. My xH did a lot of really terrible things, yet I don't feel compelled to tell my kids about them. At any rate, I know MM's kids will hate me, and I know I've earned that. Truthfully though, in my experiences with step-families, they were going to hate me no matter what, this just makes it worse. As far as my own, they're young enough that this episode will be a distant memory. I fully expect that MM's kids will tell the the tale someday, and they will likely judge me someday on that. I will have to live with that then.

 

 

1)I don't agree with the BS, but I did it myself and I was wrong. I was angry and that is how I viewed the person who helped to violate my family. But what would you have her call you that seems to fit the occasion?

 

2) As has been repeated over and over by AP on this board, how can you control how you feel? So if she is tearing him down, then she is following his lead of trying to make herself feel better the wrong way.

 

3) Why emotionally abuse them, huh? Again she is wrong to take his lead, but he did that first, by disrespecting their mother and having sex with someone else. Did he give them a choice in that action... nope. Yet she is supposed to put her hurt and pain(as she should)aside and do what is best for her children after you and her H helped to explode their lives with out thoughts to the children's(her's and your's) emotional welfare. She is supposed to take the high road because 2 others took the low road.

 

4) Thankfully your experience with step families isn't the only template that can be followed. But they have to built on respect and truth, which you chose to ignore from the beginning. You and MM set that tone, not the kids.

 

5) If MM kids don't tell the tale, the neighbors will or other family members.

 

There is enough blame to go around, laying it all at BS feet is not only unfair, but is rewriting history also.

[Owl]

Isn't is also possible that an affair can signify that a marriage is not just sick, already dead for all qualitative purposes? I dunno, maybe that's just what i have to tell myself to sleep at night.

 

It MIGHT in some cases...but again...there's no way for someone on the outside to know that for sure. There's no way for those on the INSIDE to know most of the time. Not until they go through all the steps of trying to 'save it' and fail.

 

At the end of the day, our discussion on this means nothing...what matters is your plan for taking care of yourself and your family going forward.

 

That's why I suggest backing off, putting the onus on MM to divorce and make himself available to you...and THEN seeing where things can go between you.

 

It removes you and your family from the drama, and it forces HIM to step up and do what needs to be done.

[herenow]

I didn't read this whole thread, but the part i did read is just another example of an OW expecting a BW to act in a more compassionate, sensible,, "adult" manner than the OW did herself. Why is it that BW are supposed to act at all civil towards an OW after finding out about an affair?

 

If you go by the "I didn't marry her so I don't owe her anything" excuse. Well, I would have to say that your kids aren't her kids and she doesn't owe you any consideration. You are responsible for your kids and what they hear about you. If you were so concerned about your kids finding out about your actions, then that is something you should think about when you make your choices. It's not the BW's fault that your kids were around you when she screamed the truth about you from her car. I get a bit tired of people expecting BW's to live by a higher standard. She cares as much about your family as you do about hers. Rightfully so if that is what she chooses to do. Just like you made choices that worked best for you, she is making her own choices that work best for her. She had no say in yours, you have no say in hers. JMO

[MistyK]

I give up. Obviously I am a wanton whore who has no regard for her own children or anyone else's. Go ahead an deify the abusive (and she is physically abusive) BW. Obviously I maliciously and purposely set out to **** up everyone and it's 100% my fault because I'm a woman. And in all of this it also seems that no one should ever ever be able to admit a mistake in getting married and divorce without ruining the children's lives forever. With such black and white morality why should there even be any discussion? You get married, you should be forced to stay miserable and argue in front of your children forever. That's best for everyone right? Yeah, ok.

[MistyK]

Thank you much for those of you with very helpful comments, it is much food for thought.

[herenow]

I give up. Obviously I am a wanton whore who has no regard for her own children or anyone else's. Go ahead an deify the abusive (and she is physically abusive) BW. Obviously I maliciously and purposely set out to **** up everyone and it's 100% my fault because I'm a woman. And in all of this it also seems that no one should ever ever be able to admit a mistake in getting married and divorce without ruining the children's lives forever. With such black and white morality why should there even be any discussion? You get married, you should be forced to stay miserable and argue in front of your children forever. That's best for everyone right? Yeah, ok.

 

This attitude is very childish. No one said any of this. If this MM really wanted to get a divorce and be with you, then IMO he should and would. But that's not what has happened yet, so his wife is still very much part of his life. That's his choice. If you want to blame someone, you should blame him.

 

Actually what I am saying is that you shouldn't expect people to act towards you in a respectful way if you do not treat them with respect yourself. I will buy that you didn't marry her and for that reason you are not responsible for her life. I will also accept that the person who the BW should blame for the affair is the MM. I will also agree that both spouses do their part in the failure of a marriage.

 

But, as you made a choice to become involved with her H without much regard for how the BW will be hurt, she shouldn't bear any responsibility for what her actions do to you. Why should she care more about you than you did about her?

[KikiW]

I think the main point people have made is that all the adults in this have plenty of blame to shoulder. Some feel the blame lies a little further one of the three ways, but you all share it.

 

What YOU need to do right now, Misty, is protect yourself and your children from someone who may be unstable, angry, hurt, jealous, etc. I think nearly everyone can agree on that.

[MistyK]

This attitude is very childish. No one said any of this. If this MM really wanted to get a divorce and be with you, then IMO he should and would. But that's not what has happened yet, so his wife is still very much part of his life. That's his choice. If you want to blame someone, you should blame him.

 

Actually what I am saying is that you shouldn't expect people to act towards you in a respectful way if you do not treat them with respect yourself. I will buy that you didn't marry her and for that reason you are not responsible for her life. I will also accept that the person who the BW should blame for the affair is the MM. I will also agree that both spouses do their part in the failure of a marriage.

 

But, as you made a choice to become involved with her H without much regard for how the BW will be hurt, she shouldn't bear any responsibility for what her actions do to you. Why should she care more about you than you did about her?

 

I don't expect her to care about me. I fully expect her to yell at me and I didn't even bitch when she tried to run me over. The problem is her dragging my kids into this, and her own. Now before you all jump down my throat about how I'm ruining all the kids ---we all have a choice to keep our kids out of it. When I divorced, I kept my kids out of it. I have not introduced my kids to MM nor has he introduced me to his. We plan on keeping it that way for a long time. She's choosing to hurt her kids simply to get back at him, and apparently to hurt mine to get back at me. I don't care how badly I'm hurt, I will be damned before I throw my kids (or anyone else's) under the bus. So yeah, I understand her emotion, but she needs to take it out on the right people. It's like kicking your dog when you're mad at your boss.