New Here - Thoughts?

[Wishfulthinkin]

So- okay. I'm the OW - but the story seems a lil different than a lot that I've read here - so here goes.

 

I met my MM at church. (GASP! I know) He was a long time member and support staff and I had recently joined. I knew that he was married, and though there was obvious attraction, neither of us mentioned it. Through conversations with him and others (church functions, etc) I learned a lot about him and his marriage. He had been married a short time, and got married b/c it was discovered by the church that he and his then GF were living together. A big no-no, so rather than have her move out (she didn't work and couldn't provide for herself), he married her. They fought constantly and were living separate lives. She did not come to church nor participate in activities or dinners, etc with him. In fact, I saw her 3 times EVER in over 9 months. They had no children, and he had already begun private counseling with the pastor - expressing that he had married for the wrong reasons and wanted a divorce. He and I were getting closer, admittedly, and he had begun to discuss more details about the marriage and the problems within with me. I am separated and was trying to be supportive in regard to what I knew he was facing. I knew that feelings were developing, and we discussed it, in an effort to do the right thing. He went to his wife again and told her that he didn't love her and that he wanted out. She still wanted to hold on. Despite our efforts to keep things platonic, we began having an affair. As to be expected, we were caught. When she confronted him with it, he made no attempt to deny it, and offered her the house, etc. The divorce is already under way. He has said from the beginning that he wants to be with me. We go out together, he is openly affectionate, he is great with my kids. He says he wants us to find a new church together, etc. The big hiccup in all of this is this -

 

I have begun to totally take care of him. I secured his lawyer and have taken care of all paperwork, etc. I have taken over his finances and set him up to live on his own. (rented his apt, negotiated a new car deal, etc) I am not paying for these things- HIS INCOME - but I'm doing the leg work. Also, anytime we are out and see anyone from the church we were forced to leave, he makes every effort to conceal that we're together. He hides our relationship from his co-workers and his family. He says that this is because morally our relationship is wrong until the divorce is final, and he doesn't want to look bad in front of these people, even tho they shunned him and have ceased to be his friends. To me, that damage is already done, and we should move on with life. So- my question is this-

 

Does he feel obligated to be with me because I have helped him so much? (he often says that I am the only friend he has right now when church members ask if he's still seeing me) Is he just using me to ease this stage of his life (u know, until the final papers are clocked?)

 

I am confused and looking for anything helpful from those who've been there, seen this, whatever. Thanks in advance ~

[MistyK]

Well, I'm quite familiar with being in the position of doing all the legwork. Definitely not a fun place to be. I shopped for, cleaned and bought all the linens and housewares, etc for my MM's new place and set up all his bills, new accounts, etc (with his money). For a while it felt good to take care of him, but then I wondered if he really wanted to move at all. Do you think it is that your MM has no internal motivation or just that he's very dependent? Either way, it's not good. No internal motivation may leave you in yo-yo-ville with an indecisive MM and the dependence is both a drain and likely to burn out once things have blown over and he's feeling better. Best of luck to you.

[Owl]

I'd not say that he was staying with you because he felt guilty for "using you".

 

Obviously, there IS some kind of attraction going on between the two of you.

 

But, it COULD be simply "rebound" after making the mistake of marrying before he was ready to begin with.

 

I'd give you the same "standard advice" I've given others here...step back, let him be a big boy and complete his divorce on his own...get moved out, get setup...and THEN see what kind of relationship the two of you can build.

 

I'd give you one caution...clearly this guy struggles with his own morality. His church...his own "beliefs" tell him that it's wrong to shack up with someone...but he does, and then makes it worse by marrying rather than end the relationship. Then, when he's not happy in THAT relationship...he commits infidelity with you...and AGAIN covers it up to those that matter to him...friends, family, fellow church members.

 

See a pattern forming here?

 

This isn't a mistake...it's a personality trait. He's showing where his morals really are...not where he says they are. Actions always speak louder than words.

 

Step back for a while...see what happens AFTER he divorces and is available to pursue an "honest" relationship with you.

[Wishfulthinkin]

Thanks for replying Misty. I know that he wanted to move - he works during business hours, and would've had to take time off to do most of this stuff. He also travels periodically, and a trip out of the country fell in the middle of this stuff. Also, it might be helpful to relay that he had me find him a place large enuf to accomodate all of us, and says that he wants us to live together when everything is final. I am really perplexed by his denying that he's involved with me. I do understand that from the outside looking in, I am the reason he's divorcing, and she did take all of our personal business to the church. I wonder however, why he's so concerned with the morality aspect now, considering we both knew that when this began. Sometimes I think he feels like he owes me something now- because I have stood by him and helped him when no one else did. I don't want an obligatory relationship, you know? I love him, but at this point, I'd rather let him go than think he was with me for any reason other than love.

 

BTW- I am assuming that you also were/are the OW. If so, did your relationship work? Thanks~

[Wishfulthinkin]

Owl - Thanks for your reply too! I agree and it's for this reason that I am most concerned. I have asked him about this, especially because he is willing to "shack up" with me. I told him that I didn't think that was the best of ideas, and that the only way we could right our wrong from a moral standpoint was to live separately until we were married.

 

He has said from the start that this is based on love, and that the obvious course of things is for us to marry. He was also willing to wait on intimacy until we are married -(I should clarify that when she caught us together, we were not having sex - we were alone together, and he admitted that we were emotionally involved)

 

So there are some obvious inconsistencies here. His biggest flaw it seems, is that he will do whatever will make everyone "happy". He married her to make her happy (she couldn't support herself) and to make the leadership of the church happy. He now wants to conceal our relationship because it doesn't seem to be politically correct. I sometimes feel he wants to make me "happy" because he knows I love him and I want us to be together. I can't determine if he's swallowing his morals for me (as he did for her) or if the truth is that he is self serving all the way around. Allowing the appearance of conviction to afford him his "secret" pleasures. Make sense?

[MistyK]

Wishful,

My mm did the same thing - he got a place big enough for everyone and certainly went through the motions of planning a future with me, but it seemed odd that he didn't seem invested in making his own home "home-y". Not having time is an excuse, just like it was for my MM. You do what you have to, you find a way to do what you need to do. You've "saved" him from being an adult, and for my part, it's a move I regret making. What is he doing to really make you feel like he's actively planning a future with you - I'm not hearing much about that from you.

 

And no, my own situation isn't working out so well - if you are curious, see "MM is moving painfully slow" and "Because I don't feel crappy enough" threads.

[Wishfulthinkin]

Misty -

 

He hasn't moved in yet ... will actually be this weekend, so I can't really say anything about how he handles the residence yet. As for actively planning a future with me - he bought another car and gave me his truck. I already had two vehicles, so it wasn't a need situation - it was just that I wanted the truck. I sold one of my vehicles(the one with a payment to make it a wash more or less with his truck payment). The truck is still in his name, so there's a certain risk associated with that for him (were he not to be serious about us), as he cannot afford two vehicle payments on his own. He has also added me to all of his bank accts - and I have the access cards to his credit union accts. He has made me an authorized user on his credit cards, etc ... Also, he does not hide the fact that we are in a relationship to anyone except church members and co workers. We go anywhere and everywhere together, and he is comfortable around my friends. To his credit, even with church members, he will not deny that he talks to me, or that we're friends, he just will not admit to a relationship. I guess it could just be that he wants to protect himself until the legal process is complete, but I can't rationalize it. It's not like she can file for divorce on "multiple counts" of adultery, you know? She filed, he didn't deny it ... end of story. There's nothing to fight for - they were married less than 3 years, no kids, no assets. They have a house with no equity and he agreed to allow her to have it or he would sell it - seems like it's just paperwork now. Or maybe I'm missing something? My divorce was no fault- irreconcileable differences, so I have no experience with whether or not there's a valid reason for his behavior ...

 

Thanks again for talkin' this thru with me. I'm headed to read your posts :-)

[jwi71]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy - there are more red flags here than Tienanmen Square.

 

Owl nailed it.

 

There is a very real pattern here.

 

1) Shacks up w/ gf in secret.

2) Community finds out so he marries her.

3) Decides it's not for him, cheats.

4) Hides YOU from the community.

5) Plans to live with you...before M(arriage)...and in secret.

 

I can't begin to ID his biggest problem...is it the lying (to you, to others, his W), his immaturity (what man needs his gf to do basically everything), his willingness to set aside his "morals" to suit his current want...sheesh.

 

Here's my advice and I know it'll be ignored.

 

STOP being his wet nurse. Stop being his mommy. Start being an EQUAL partner. But you can't be an equal partner because he is married to someone else. Therefore, you will NOT settle for less and tell him to grow a pair of testicles and ACT like the man he thinks he is. And this means: His own place run by him, his own finances managed by him, and his own D finished by him.

 

Until then...you are basically adopting a child who portends to be a man.

 

Good luck...I do not see this ending well...

[fooled once]

I am separated

 

You are still married and you have introduced your children to him?

 

You go out with him and he isn't even divorced?

 

Why are you doing all his legwork for him?

 

If he wants to be divorced, moved out, etc., LET HIM DO IT HIMSELF!!!

[fooled once]

He has also added me to all of his bank accts - and I have the access cards to his credit union accts. He has made me an authorized user on his credit cards, etc .

 

OMG

 

Are you kidding me?

 

He did this?

 

What an idiot. What a freaking idiot.

 

WHO does this???

[babydreamer]

I agreed with OWL... They're big kids, nothing is wrong with supporting but doing everything for them is not helping both of you guys because you are having doubts. Sometimes its best to show them that you care and will be there for them when they need you but you have to let them learn to walk on their own. Good luck, keep us posted.

 

OWL: I've been reading your posts and you are a very wise OWL Most are not what they want to hear but very true. We are often blind when we are within the situation. Only the outsiders can see the full picture.

[bentnotbroken]

He should drop the religious act( you too.) If you think being private means God doesn't know what's going on is laughable at best. There isn't and exemption clause in "thou shalt not commit adultery". If you go to church for more than tradition, socializing, hooking up or a front, you know what's coming and you know no excuses, justification or hiding will change it.

[whichwayisup]

Wow, you're doing WAAAYYY too much for this guy. He sounds like one of those men who needs a woman to do just about everything for him since he's incapable of doing it himself.

 

You could be a rebound, maybe not..Noone know..But, you NEED to give this guy time alone otherwise he'll be bouncing from a marriage smack into your arms. People need breathing space and time to sort stuff out. He had a life with someone else - NOONE just ups and leaves, creates a new life with someone else this fast. Well, people do this, but 9/10 it doesn't work out due to trust issues, honeymoon phase wears off..

[norajane]

There is a very real pattern here.

 

1) Shacks up w/ gf in secret.

2) Community finds out so he marries her.

3) Decides it's not for him, cheats.

4) Hides YOU from the community.

5) Plans to live with you...before M(arriage)...and in secret.

 

I can't begin to ID his biggest problem

I can't either, but wow, are there red flags all over the place!

 

There is something very bizarre about a man who isn't divorced who puts your name on his bank accounts and makes you an authorized user of his credit cards. And who has you setting up his house for him. It's like you're his mommy or something. Is he afraid you won't stay with him so he's desperately giving you the keys to his kingdom? Does he have so little strength of will that he needs you to get his divorce for him?

 

What do you find attractive and appealing about him? Why are you so ready to become his caretaker? Have you done any research on this guy? Do you know anything about him other than what he's told you? You have all his info...have you run a background check? There's just something off about him.

 

And you aren't even divorced yet! Why haven't you taken care of this? You found his lawyer and got his paperwork together...why haven't you done this for yourself?

[sadintexas]

The thing that's throwing me off is this: Usually in divorce proceedings there are temporary orders that protect assets of the marriage, and prevent further accumulation of debt until the divorce is finalized. Yet he has been able to include you totally (it seems) in his financial life? That truck is an asset/liability to the marriage. Those credit cards/bank accounts, etc., are all property of the marriage until the divorce is final. How is she going to keep the house if she's unable to financially care for herself (according to him)? How is she going to get it refinanced in her name if she doesn't work?

 

Seems very strange to me. Very strange.

[sugarmomma]

How long has the affair been going on?

 

How long has he been separated?

 

How long have you been separated?

 

Why are you working on his divorce and not YOURS?

 

How old are the two of you?

 

Why are you attracted to people who NEED you?

 

This sounds like a very codependent enmeshed situation.

 

Please don't shack up with him no matter what you do. He has already shown you what will happen once he starts to feel as though he made a "mistake"

 

Good Luck!

 

And this is going on in the church? I don't have a snowballs chance in hell!!!

[Wishfulthinkin]

The thing that's throwing me off is this: Usually in divorce proceedings there are temporary orders that protect assets of the marriage, and prevent further accumulation of debt until the divorce is finalized. Yet he has been able to include you totally (it seems) in his financial life? That truck is an asset/liability to the marriage. Those credit cards/bank accounts, etc., are all property of the marriage until the divorce is final. How is she going to keep the house if she's unable to financially care for herself (according to him)? How is she going to get it refinanced in her name if she doesn't work?

 

Seems very strange to me. Very strange.

 

She wasn't working when it was discovered that they were living together before marriage. Since they married, she has gotten a job, and is gainfully employed. Should've cleared that up. She filed for divorce, and of course, asked that he pay for the house and all utilites, however she did not make issue of the vehicles (I'm assuming because there were 2 cars {one in each of their names}). They have no true assets- even the house has negative equity. She asked for alimony but the marriage was less than 3 years, no children, and she makes equal income, so that was a non issue. They had no joint credit accounts, other than the mortgage and a checking account. She closed the joint checking and they each opened separate ones. She announced within 2 days of his admission that she had someone pay off all of her accounts for her - so apparently she feels that she made the decisions regarding debt.

 

And you're right - it is very strange. I am truly looking for any constructive input because even though there is an obvious attraction, I do feel like I have acquired another child. Aside from the natural trust issues that accompany an A, I am feeling increasingly vulnerable ...

[MistyK]

I imagine it must be very draining when you are going through the same thing (divorce) and are apparently able to deal with no hand holding. And wouldn't it be nice if you could look to him for support if you needed it? It sounds like this man can't support a feather right now, and the last thing you probably need is another drain on your energies. In fact, the distraction of being his mommy may well interfere with your ability deal effectively with your own marriage, and that's not going to serve you well.

 

I was married to a guy like this that wanted a mommy - it's draining, soul-sucking, and in the end created a whole lot of resentment.

 

He sounds a little too pliable - if the community can pressure him to make a life changing decision to get married, what will happen if he feels pressured against having a relationship with you, or any other thing? Is he in therapy?

 

Your name being on his accounts when he hasn't officially settled finances with his wife yet concerns me. It feels like a recipe for you getting your credit trashed or getting your assests involved in the dissolution of his marriage....be careful.

[Wishfulthinkin]

How long has the affair been going on?

 

A has been going on approx 7 months --

 

How long has he been separated?

They've been in two separate rooms 4 three months - both refused to leave the house until the first hearing. He is moving into his apt this weekend.

 

How long have you been separated?

I've been separated more than a year, and the legal aspect is in motion.

 

Why are you working on his divorce and not YOURS?

 

Mine was a no-fault divorce, so I had to wait a year to file. In addition, we had to hash out visitation and support. Thankfully my side is amicable.

 

How old are the two of you?

Both early 30's

 

Why are you attracted to people who NEED you?

This is the kicker ... I had NO IDEA he was so dependent. I am a "take charge, get it done" kinda person, and I had the perception that he was also. That is SOOO Not the case. I know that I am doing myself an injustice by being his care taker, but I admit that I've tried to tell myself that it's a temporary situation based on the shock and suddeness of the whole thing. Perhaps I'm making excuses for him?

 

This sounds like a very codependent enmeshed situation.

 

Please don't shack up with him no matter what you do. He has already shown you what will happen once he starts to feel as though he made a "mistake"

 

I've said this too - He's told me repeatedly that he cared for her, but was never truly in LOVE with her, but couldn't bear to hurt her or put her out back before he married her. I've asked if he feels like he "owes me" or if he's gonna have to "do the right thing" again because I have stood beside him. He gets really angry and tells me no - that he truly LOVES me. I ask him why, and he says because I am the opposite of her. - I then asked what would happen when he met someone he felt was "sweeter" than me, and he blew a fuse. Maybe I was just diggin' with that one, but isn't it normal to want to know what such devotion is based upon?

 

Good Luck!

 

And this is going on in the church? I don't have a snowballs chance in hell!!!

 

The church ... I know. And trust me, I would've never ever guessed that this is something I would do. We obviously had to leave the church we were part of, but I refuse to pretend, so we're currently not attending at all. I'm well aware that God is aware, and repentence has yet to occur. I will be the last to offer my witness at the moment. I'm just thankful for mercy and grace.

[MistyK]

I know that I am doing myself an injustice by being his care taker, but I admit that I've tried to tell myself that it's a temporary situation based on the shock and suddeness of the whole thing.

 

It might also be helpful to stop this behavior if you think of it as doing him no favors as well. He won't learn to stand on his own two feet if you don't make him - it's like doing all your kids homework for them. They may love that you do that, but they haven't learned a thing and will struggle as adults because they missed out on that learning.

 

 

I ask him why, and he says because I am the opposite of her.

I REALLY don't like this as an answer. Shouldn't you be loved in your own right and not as the anti-wife?

 

It sounds like the W was previously very dependent on him and he resented it. Now he seems to think the world owes him a return favor and he's using you to get it. If he manages to stop being so hung up on her, where does that leave you if your value to him was only as the anti-wife? Sounds like he has some issues he needs to work on in therapy.

[jwi71]

How old are your kids?

How long have you a) known this man and b) been dating?

Does YOUR family know what you are planning?

When will you two be getting married?

[Wishfulthinkin]

How old are your kids?

How long have you a) known this man and b) been dating?

Does YOUR family know what you are planning?

When will you two be getting married?

 

 

My kids are 11 and 9. I've know him for about a year, and we've been dating approx. 7 months. We've made no concrete plans to get married- as in buying rings or setting a date, but it has been discussed. My family does know about him and our relationship, and they are justifiably concerned. I am [typically] a very level headed and moral person, and my family fears more than the temporary loss of my integrity.

 

I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the whole situation, and find myself wanting out more and more - regardless of the fact that I love him. I feel obligated to stand by him, however, because everyone else who said they were his friends, and "there" for him have proved not to be. Is that my pride? Or perhaps my guilt for my involvement in the first place?

[Wishfulthinkin]

I know that I am doing myself an injustice by being his care taker, but I admit that I've tried to tell myself that it's a temporary situation based on the shock and suddeness of the whole thing.

 

It might also be helpful to stop this behavior if you think of it as doing him no favors as well. He won't learn to stand on his own two feet if you don't make him - it's like doing all your kids homework for them. They may love that you do that, but they haven't learned a thing and will struggle as adults because they missed out on that learning.

 

 

I ask him why, and he says because I am the opposite of her.

 

I REALLY don't like this as an answer. Shouldn't you be loved in your own right and not as the anti-wife?

 

It sounds like the W was previously very dependent on him and he resented it. Now he seems to think the world owes him a return favor and he's using you to get it. If he manages to stop being so hung up on her, where does that leave you if your value to him was only as the anti-wife? Sounds like he has some issues he needs to work on in therapy.

 

Let me clear up the opposite thing. I don't truly know if she was very dependent- you could be dead on. In the context of our conversation however, he was referring to personality. I know her too,and she is a very bitter, unhappy person. She has a very low self -esteem and is extremely withdrawn. She isn't a social person AT ALL and is extremely jealous. I, on the other hand, am very social and light hearted. I never meet a stranger and am often referred to as "bubbly" or "a breath of fresh air". I think there was just a huge contrast between her demeanor and mine, but again, this is why I felt justified in asking what would happen when somewhere more "pollyana" than me came along. He should've known how she was BEFORE they got married, right? But he did it anyway...

[sadintexas]

I am becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the whole situation, and find myself wanting out more and more - regardless of the fact that I love him. I feel obligated to stand by him, however, because everyone else who said they were his friends, and "there" for him have proved not to be. Is that my pride? Or perhaps my guilt for my involvement in the first place?

 

You have to be true to yourself first. Your becoming more and more uncomfortable is your inner voice telling you something is not right here. There are a lot of dynamics at play here and it's easy to see that you are confused about what to do. My recommendation is to take a break from it all. I believe you are also going through a divorce right now? It would be best to take a breather and let both of you work through your marriage terminations before going any further than this.

 

He needs this to stand on his own and figure out what he really wants (not saying he isn't being honest with you, but he's been in it knee deep for a while), and you need to step back and see if he can take care of himself and if your gut quiets after you observe what he does. As someone else pointed out, you are not doing him any favors by doing everything, and you're not doing yourself any favors by doing things that you are questioning or don't feel comfortable with.

 

Let's say that this is a relationship that would really be good in the long run. You are going to get drained by the phase that it's in now, which could end it prematurely. Space is indicated I think.

 

You have children (so do I) and as a mother, our first concerns should be what is good for our children. This is often a problem for me with dating. Don't get deeper into this situation which will affect your children unless you're sure this is the man you want to be with.

[2sure]

and she makes equal income, so that was a non issue. .. She closed the joint checking and they each opened separate ones. She announced within 2 days of his admission that she had someone pay off all of her accounts for her - so apparently she feels that she made the decisions regarding debt.

 

His wife sounds the Opposite of dependent. She sounds like she knows how to take care of herself and business. She sounds like she is completely prepared to move forward...in fact, from what you have described about MM...she is dancing a freaking jig.