Magic!

[Moai]

It is the 21st century. Mankind has been "civilized" for around 10,000 years, give or take. Yet some bizarre beliefs still plague us. I have decided to list a few--I'd love to read comments about these or others that I may have missed.

 

In no particular order:

 

Muhammad was taken bodily to heaven on the back of a winged horse.

Jesus rose from the dead.

The saintly dead rose when Jesus was arrested, and more arose when he was crucified (Matthew).

Snakes can talk.

Fruit can impart knowledge and fundamentally change brain chemistry.

It is possible for statues to bleed or weep.

God takes an interest in who wins sporting events.

Donkeys can talk.

Stars that are billions of light years from Earth, and aren't even in the positions that we see them effect who you are as a person.

Said stars are a guide as to whom you should be married.

Particular words said in a particular order can invoke supernatural help or negatively effect another.

Spilling salt is bad luck, which can be averted by throwing said salt over your shoulder.

Walking under a ladder is bad luck.

Immunizations are bad for you.

Prayer works.

Certain words said while making certain gestures can change the physical properties of things--but only crackers to flesh. Lead to gold is a no-go.

Psychics can talk to the dead.

The fact that there is such a thing as a "psychic".

 

Off we go...

[knaveman]

You forgot this one:

 

One person knows better than another.

[quankanne]

Donkeys can talk

 

have you been watching "Shrek" again, mo? :bunny:

[Moai]

You forgot this one:

 

One person knows better than another.

 

Fail.

 

Lots of people know more than others.

 

Those holding a doctorate in a particular area know more than people who don't.

 

Parents know more than their young children.

 

Any claim is subject to testing. A failed claim is a failed claim, no matter who asserts it.

 

And in this instance, I am not the one determining these claims to be false; rather, the data is. i just accept it. As any ratinal person should.

[Moai]

Donkeys can talk

 

have you been watching "Shrek" again, mo? :bunny:

 

Shrek is an excellent documentary. Changed my life.

[quankanne]

especially the karaoke bit at the end

[dobler33]

glad you started this, moai, cause they just closed the "where do atheists get their morals" thread. i found this interesting - the reason given was that it was off topic to the original posted thread, but not only have i seen similar digression in other forums on LS that have not been closed, i have also seen blatant attack and name-calling, sometimes of a seriously obscene nature, and those threads have not been closed. i will READILY admit to a tendancy toward paranoia where religiosity is concerned - as an atheist who has lived through the last 8 years it's hard not to be paranoid - so i sent a polite and respectful inquiry to the moderators with this same inconsistency. any thoughts? i'm still relatively new here - have you seen this sort of thing in the past when it comes to atheism?

 

that being said, here are a few of my favorite instances of magical thinking:

 

-god is on our side. even though the other guys believe that he's on their side.

-the body of each female child born in the world carries the original sin.

-god will heal the sick, and if he doesn't, they were meant to die anyway.

-god loves us and our entire fleshly bodies, but has very specific views on who gets to put which part where.

-hera, zeus, hecate, oshun, apollo, kagutsuchi, ixchel, anansi, osiris, thor, sekhmet....etc, etc, etc...are bogus but jesus and the white-bearded guy are real.

 

those are just the first ones that come to mind. i'm sure there are plenty more if i think for a while.

[TaraMaiden]

One thing I do find amusing is sportspeople on TV (and I do have to say, they are mostly American or 'Latin' in origin) is that when they're triumphant and have won something, they thank God for their victory, and how God helped them and gave them strength....

You never hear the runner-up saying God let them down, or that God didn't cut it for them that day, or that obviously God was somewhat busy with more important things than helping a runner pass the line first.....

 

And what's this 'bend down touch the ground and make the sign of the cross' crud, football (That's 'soccer' to out USA friends) players do when coming onto the pitch?

Jeesh... it was never like this in Bobby Moore's day.....!

[boldjack]

The white-bearded guy? You mean Uncle Jessie?

[dobler33]

The white-bearded guy? You mean Uncle Jessie?

 

 

totally. is he aware of his immense importance to the world? maybe you should get him a drink.

[boldjack]

You know Gidget, this is getting scary. First, I start calling you Gidget, and lo and behold, you were known as Gidget in your youth. Now you start mentioning Gods and Goddesses and all of my horses are NAMED after Gods and Goddesses. (Except my favorite stud, a Grey throughbred/ Appaloosa cross, I call him "Turd", because he's dumber than sh*t):laugh:

[dobler33]

You know Gidget, this is getting scary. First, I start calling you Gidget, and lo and behold, you were known as Gidget in your youth. Now you start mentioning Gods and Goddesses and all of my horses are NAMED after Gods and Goddesses. (Except my favorite stud, a Grey throughbred/ Appaloosa cross, I call him "Turd", because he's dumber than sh*t):laugh:

 

 

hey, jump back over to my "just got a call" thread, cause i don't wanna t/j on moai and i don't think i'm cool enough for PM yet.

[dobler33]

One thing I do find amusing is sportspeople on TV (and I do have to say, they are mostly American or 'Latin' in origin) is that when they're triumphant and have won something, they thank God for their victory, and how God helped them and gave them strength....

You never hear the runner-up saying God let them down, or that God didn't cut it for them that day, or that obviously God was somewhat busy with more important things than helping a runner pass the line first.....

 

And what's this 'bend down touch the ground and make the sign of the cross' crud, football (That's 'soccer' to out USA friends) players do when coming onto the pitch?

Jeesh... it was never like this in Bobby Moore's day.....!

 

that must be why there's so much poverty and starvation and murder and violence and unrest in the world. god's glued to the telly watching the football and can't be bothered with the rest of his duties.

[knaveman]

Fail.

 

Lots of people know more than others.

 

Those holding a doctorate in a particular area know more than people who don't.

 

Parents know more than their young children.

 

Any claim is subject to testing. A failed claim is a failed claim, no matter who asserts it.

 

And in this instance, I am not the one determining these claims to be false; rather, the data is. i just accept it. As any ratinal person should.

 

The world and people never cease to amaze me. Good luck with your mission.

[knaveman]

and don't forget...

 

"Jesus is magic!" Sarah Silverman.

[Eve]

*Eve wonders what happened with the Baptist Father. Did Moai run away from an abusive home?*

 

Do tell..

 

Sorry that this is SO off topic.. but I kind of come here for the human aspect. You know, what influences people to do what they do. At the end of the day beliefs are what they are and some make people better people. End off. I want to know why you dont believe in magic Moai.

 

Never mind anyone else for a minute. Take responsibility for your own lack of belief for a second.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[TaraMaiden]

From my POV, the reason I don't believe in magic is the law of probability. I'm afraid I'm of a mind to test things to the Nth degree... If I can't find an explanation for it, I don't necessarily call it 'magic'. I call it inexplicable. One doesn't necessarily mean the other.

And simply because I can't find an explanation, doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

The only thing I - and eminent doctors and scientists - have as yet not found a concrete and plausible explanation for (though theories abound, but even the so-called experts admit they are simply that - theories....) is 'after-death' experiences.

Open minded I remain on many things.

But I wouldn't call them Magic.

 

Magic to me is David Nixon, Paul Daniels and Prestidigitators everywhere.

 

Mystery is Uri Geller. I have at first-hand, had experience of his quite simply baffling "gifts".....

 

But it's not 'Magic'.

Even he dienies this, hotly.

 

fascinating thread....

Thanks for your points, Eve!

[dobler33]

*Eve wonders what happened with the Baptist Father. Did Moai run away from an abusive home?*

 

Do tell..

 

Sorry that this is SO off topic.. but I kind of come here for the human aspect. You know, what influences people to do what they do. At the end of the day beliefs are what they are and some make people better people. End off. I want to know why you dont believe in magic Moai.

 

Never mind anyone else for a minute. Take responsibility for your own lack of belief for a second.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

 

"taking responsibility" for one's lack of belief implies that there is something wrong with a lack of belief. what's wrong with wanting empirical evidence and reasoned investigation before throwing one's belief into something?

[Eve]

"taking responsibility" for one's lack of belief implies that there is something wrong with a lack of belief. what's wrong with wanting empirical evidence and reasoned investigation before throwing one's belief into something?

 

I suppose I am not easily distracted by words, or even qualifications. Underlying reasons interest me. Eisnstein put it wll in the following quote.

 

'I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research'.

 

I dont believe that ideas and theories come from just our minds. My belief being one that the natural is bourne out of the supernatural listens to all perspectives. Anything other than this bears an uncanny resemblance to what people often want to escape from.

 

So, I intend to remain free and equally honour the beliefs of others.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[NoIDidn't]

Whatever a person chooses to believe is their business. Deity or not. Magic or paranormal.

 

What really is the point of threads like this other than to say someone's spiritual path or choices are invalid. What's the point of that?

 

And what's the point of atheists hanging out in the one place one wouldn't expect to find them: in matters of religion and spirituality?

[AgentD]

Whatever a person chooses to believe is their business. Deity or not. Magic or paranormal.

 

What really is the point of threads like this other than to say someone's spiritual path or choices are invalid. What's the point of that?

 

And what's the point of atheists hanging out in the one place one wouldn't expect to find them: in matters of religion and spirituality?

I personally couldn't agree more.

 

There are a select few that post in this particular section of our forum that are unproductive and seek only to argue their intellect.

 

I've attempted to contact my Director on this for advice on this situation, unfortunately, his private message box is full.

 

If it were up to me, the few I have in mind would not be allowed to post here at all. I'm going to allow the Director to look at this and send me his reply. If he agrees, I will actively be keeping an eye on the few that are guilty of starting unproductive conversation.

 

I'm locking this thread down. (A call that can be reversed if deemed neccessary). In my mind it serves no other purpose than to spark an arguement.