"Men need women more than women need men"

[Isolde]

I don't want to start a gender war but I think it's interesting how many people feel that men are unhappier single than women are. There's even some studies that may support this.

 

I don't think I agree, though. While I admit men may have more of a need for sex than women and many may not want to get it casually, I think both sexes feel similar effects on balance. That women have careers, etc., is only a superficial measure of how happy they are without a certain type of companionship.

 

The deeper thing about this that disturbs me, is that it implies that women who are single are single just because they want to be, or because they're crazy, which as I've seen on this board, isn't true at all.

 

The tendency of dismissing women as unreasonable and finicky if they're single for a long time, stands in sharp contrast with the generally sympathetic portrayal of single men. I know a few girls in their twenties who are attractive, intelligent and very feminine, who have so much trouble meeting quality guys, it's not even funny. I don't know; perhaps they're too intelligent for their own good.

 

I rarely make feminist arguments but this is one area where I truly think expectations for women and men differ to an extent. Besides, ironically, I want to take a stand against the idea that we don't need guys in our lives anymore, outside of sex or "sperm donors." Oh God, yes we do!

 

Don't get me wrong. There are many great things about being single. But do I think I can deal with it, better than a guy could? Absolutely not. I think it's probably about equal--men and women just conceptualize and deal with singledom, differently.

[Star Gazer]

Well, men do tend to feel the need to spread their seed. Then again, women have that nagging biological clock. I think they "need" each other equally.

[Isolde]

Good point SG.

Grr, I'm just so tired of the talk on this board about how reasonably attractive, smart to intelligent women, are some sort of alien species, completely self-involved and self-sustaining to the point where outside companionship is more of a nuisance than anything else.

[refurb]

I think the need for/want of an intimate relationship with the opposite sex is pretty even between men and women.

 

It be for different reasons and happen at different times, but I don't think one sex has it easier than the other.

 

RF

[Trialbyfire]

I have to confess that when I was single, it was because I was finicky and what some consider, unreasonable. That I didn't have to settle, just goes to prove that being finicky and what some consider, unreasonable, is worthwhile.

 

I actually do believe that men need women, more than women need men. I also believe that people shouldn't need each other but want to be with each other. Once you need each other, you're co-dependent.

[Isolde]

I have to confess that when I was single, it was because I was finicky and what some consider, unreasonable. That I didn't have to settle, just goes to prove that being finicky and what some consider, unreasonable, is worthwhile.

 

I think that's part of the reason I'm not dating but it's definitely not all of the reason, given that men simply don't approach me. Nothing wrong with being finicky , I just think there's plenty of women who aren't finicky at all who still have dating woes.

 

 

I actually do believe that men need women more than women need men. I also believe that people shouldn't need each other but want to be with each other. Once you need each other, you're co-dependent.

 

Don't agree with the first due to my own personality and experiences, but do concur with the rest, wholeheartedly.

 

When I say "need," I mean in a very general way.

[EddieN]

I actually do believe that men need women, more than women need men.

 

I'll have to disagree. You might be a strong independent woman, but I think the number of strong independent men in the world who put a number of things before women is greater than the number of women like that.

[Isolde]

You can be finicky and still need a guy. You'd rather be single than compromise on certain things, yet you still need the right guy, even if hes just a figment of your imagination, and never shows up.

[IrishCarBomb]

Good point SG.

Grr, I'm just so tired of the talk on this board about how reasonably attractive, smart to intelligent women, are some sort of alien species, completely self-involved and self-sustaining to the point where outside companionship is more of a nuisance than anything else.

 

Attractive, smart to intelligent women ,that are self-sustaining? You're basically describing my ideal girl

 

Bonus points if she's a bit dorky or eccentric.

[Isolde]

I'll have to disagree. You might be a strong independent woman, but I think the number of strong independent men in the world who put a number of things before women is greater than the number of women like that.

 

While I see your point, being choosy doesn't mean you inherently value your career or independence over a relationship.

[Isolde]

Attractive, smart to intelligent women ,that are self-sustaining? You're basically describing my ideal girl

 

Bonus points if she's a bit dorky or eccentric.

 

I don't know about attractive and intelligent but I'm definitely dorky. I like you too Irish

[EddieN]

While I see your point, being choosy doesn't mean you inherently value your career or independence over a relationship.

 

Didn't say anything about being choosy.

 

What I meant was this - the top priorities of many men, particularly the most successful, does not include getting women. They are more interested in what they are passionate about and how they can influence the world. If they can get an attractive and smart woman along the way, then great, but it's not what they're after.

 

It seems like a lot of women these days don't have such desires, but rather just want to find a soul mate.

 

These are just generalizations, of course. Some men just want women while some women mainly want other things. I'm saying that the proportions are different.

 

Here's an example - many girls in college are there solely to find a husband. I've heard that from many different sources. Some guys may go to college just to get a girl, but not nearly as many.

[Trialbyfire]

I'll have to disagree. You might be a strong independent woman, but I think the number of strong independent men in the world who put a number of things before women is greater than the number of women like that.

I don't disagree that there are quite a number of men who don't prioritize their women. I wouldn't call them strong and independent. More selfish than independent.

 

IMO, putting your partner first, is an important ingredient in a viable relationship. I always prioritize any man I'm in a relationship with. S. loves and appreciates it and also reciprocates!

[Isolde]

While some women might still do that, I think the far more common scenario is for women to focus on their schooling and career for a couple of years and then realize, if still single, that those things aren't their only priority, that they want more from life. They face tension both from feminist women, who claim that they don't need a guy, and from guys whose preferences are that they not be independent.

 

Of course, many men like these well balanced women and date them. But there are many instances where their values and priorities aren't understood well.

[EddieN]

I don't disagree that there are quite a number of men who don't prioritize their women. I wouldn't call them strong and independent. More selfish than independent.

 

I wasn't really referring to being in a relationship. I meant that a single guy who has ambitions isn't going to put dating or FINDING a woman as a top priority. If one happens to come along, well great, but if she interferes with anything then he's going to go with his other ambitions. You can call that selfish, but not in a negative sense.

 

IMO, putting your partner first, is an important ingredient in a viable relationship. I always prioritize any man I'm in a relationship with. S. loves and appreciates it and also reciprocates!

 

Again, I wasn't really talking about having a long term partner. Someone who's really driven probably won't have time or patience for a long term partner unless she shares similar goals or goes along with his goals.

 

Though, what you just wrote shows that you DO need a man, or at least really like one.

[Isolde]

I wasn't really referring to being in a relationship. I meant that a single guy who has ambitions isn't going to put dating or FINDING a woman as a top priority. If one happens to come along, well great, but if she interferes with anything then he's going to go with his other ambitions. You can call that selfish, but not in a negative sense.

 

Good point. As a woman, I would be willing to compromise some degree of success to raise a family if I met the right guy; that's a decision I made quite some time ago. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to do my own thing while I'm single.

[Trialbyfire]

I wasn't really referring to being in a relationship. I meant that a single guy who has ambitions isn't going to put dating or FINDING a woman as a top priority. If one happens to come along, well great, but if she interferes with anything then he's going to go with his other ambitions. You can call that selfish, but not in a negative sense.

Prioritization is based on stage in life. This has no gender boundaries.

Again, I wasn't really talking about having a long term partner. Someone who's really driven probably won't have time or patience for a long term partner unless she shares similar goals or goes along with his goals.

We're both careerists, so I agree to some degree, although patience has nothing to do with it. It's a matter of understanding the other person and valuing their goals in life. Most def., I wouldn't get with a man who didn't respect my values and goals.

 

Though, what you just wrote shows that you DO need a man, or at least really like one.

Nope, I don't need men but I love, like, trust and respect my fiance enough that I want him in my life, hopefully forever.

[sally4sara]

I'll have to disagree. You might be a strong independent woman, but I think the number of strong independent men in the world who put a number of things before women is greater than the number of women like that.

 

I agree with your statement but feel it should be noted that Women's history of independence had a later starting point than that of men. No men had had to let a female family member take credit for their work, write under a woman's name to sell a book, or give a female family member the drawings and first concept invention because men use to be unable to get a patent.

 

However, the need factor is one I'd like to see done away with for both genders. Despite independence being a birth-right of man for all of history, they still look to women for things they were never genetically incapable of doing themselves. The only thing they ever actually needed women for was to help them replicate their genes. Yet they are taught and have been forever to put so much of their existence into relying on women for things they can physically do for themselves. We don't teach boys to value themselves as adults beyond their ability to mate and fight. As children they are exposed to learning - so they can be providers.

 

We now put much effort into giving women more options and the work shows. Women are realizing they don't NEED a man for the things they want AND are only as physically weak as they are lacking in motivation for strength. This, I feel is part of how we still raise our boys to need female nourishment and nurturing. To gain it - we still instill them with the ideal of the weak child hungry female; poor thing save her from her heavy load.

Then we send our boys out into the world full of women who now don't need that. Cruel.

 

So looking to the lack of actual need a woman has for men. It sounds bad, but as has become obvious, they still feel desire for them. The are attracted to them. That is till they get up close and find a mind full of their grandfather's misconceptions and still completely unprepared and less inclined to see to their own domestic needs. So we've given women the access to education; the chance to have the "minds of men" we restricted them from having. Yet we don't do anything to help the male gender become better. How is this fair?

But then...how is it fair to still expect educated independent women to go back to the laundry rooms and kitchens?

 

True, the result may end up being less marriages. But they would stand a better chance for being lasting ones. Vows taken but two people educated enough to not NEED the other, but deeply WANT each other and zero pressure to hurry hurry make a baby over making sure they make a compatible couple first.

[Isolde]

To clarify one more time, I meant "needing" the other gender in the sense that one desires a relationship and thinks one would be happiest in the right one.

[Isolde]

 

But then...how is it fair to still expect educated independent women to go back to the laundry rooms and kitchens?

 

 

It's not necessarily unfair when women decide to stop working full time to raise kids. It depends what the couple want, collectively, at that specific point in their lives.

 

Absent children, there's no reason for a woman to stop working to take care of a house, at least not normal hours.

[EddieN]

Let me tell my point through a personal example.

 

I have big dreams for my future, and right now I have no reason I can't reach some, if not all of them. A perfect situation for me in however many years is to be working high up in a biotech industry and to eventually invent something new and revolutionary that will change the world. I want to have enough money so I can be free to invent and tinker and spend my life coming up with new innovations. In my spare time, I want to travel the world, write and play music, and maybe even finally finish and perfect a fiction work that will be a life-long project for me. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

Now, notice how I didn't mention women at all. If I happen to meet a stunning Italian supermodel who falls in love with me, then great, but she's an accessory and isn't part of the dream. The only way a woman could make her way into this dream is if she shares it...as in she's a colleague who I do all that stuff with.

[sally4sara]

It's not necessarily unfair when women decide to stop working full time to raise kids. It depends what the couple want, collectively, at that specific point in their lives.

 

Absent children, there's no reason for a woman to stop working to take care of a house, at least not normal hours.

 

I never said it wasn't a decision one could make. I am only pointing out how short-sighted it is to expect it from them but never the father.

 

I don't agree with the other misconception that men make lesser parents. We tell them that in many ways, but I've seen men successfully raise children without the help of a mother just as I've seen women do.

[Isolde]

I totally see your point EddieN! Yes, I do think a lot of men think that way, but, well, they still want to be dating, if not seriously

 

I personally don't view my life like you outline, instead prioritizing my personality development in general, as influenced both by career and relationships. It's possible that my view is more female-typical, though I really wouldn't know.

[IrishCarBomb]

I don't know about attractive and intelligent but I'm definitely dorky.

 

Strange, I expected you to have the opposite response.

 

On topic though... The average man may need women more than the average woman needs men. However, I personally don't date average people very long, as I'm generally only interested in relationships with exceptional people.

 

How often to you hear about people meeting "the one", and then all the sudden the rules and generalizations are broken, thrown out, and forgotten?

[EddieN]

I agree with your statement but feel it should be noted that Women's history of independence had a later starting point than that of men. No men had had to let a female family member take credit for their work, write under a woman's name to sell a book, or give a female family member the drawings and first concept invention because men use to be unable to get a patent.

 

However, the need factor is one I'd like to see done away with for both genders. Despite independence being a birth-right of man for all of history, they still look to women for things they were never genetically incapable of doing themselves. The only thing they ever actually needed women for was to help them replicate their genes. Yet they are taught and have been forever to put so much of their existence into relying on women for things they can physically do for themselves. We don't teach boys to value themselves as adults beyond their ability to mate and fight. As children they are exposed to learning - so they can be providers.

 

We now put much effort into giving women more options and the work shows. Women are realizing they don't NEED a man for the things they want AND are only as physically weak as they are lacking in motivation for strength. This, I feel is part of how we still raise our boys to need female nourishment and nurturing. To gain it - we still instill them with the ideal of the weak child hungry female; poor thing save her from her heavy load.

Then we send our boys out into the world full of women who now don't need that. Cruel.

 

So looking to the lack of actual need a woman has for men. It sounds bad, but as has become obvious, they still feel desire for them. The are attracted to them. That is till they get up close and find a mind full of their grandfather's misconceptions and still completely unprepared and less inclined to see to their own domestic needs. So we've given women the access to education; the chance to have the "minds of men" we restricted them from having. Yet we don't do anything to help the male gender become better. How is this fair?

But then...how is it fair to still expect educated independent women to go back to the laundry rooms and kitchens?

 

True, the result may end up being less marriages. But they would stand a better chance for being lasting ones. Vows taken but two people educated enough to not NEED the other, but deeply WANT each other and zero pressure to hurry hurry make a baby over making sure they make a compatible couple first.

 

You make good points. All I can say is that the field is even now when it comes to gender. For every weight I've seen put against a woman, I've seen an equally heavy one put against a man.

 

A girl who wants to achieve a certain goal with a her life at this current day has the same opportunity as a guy who wants the same goal, when all other things are equal.

 

I know I'll get some women arguing with me over this, but believe me, it's true.