"Men need women more than women need men"

[Ruby Slippers]

I think it's true, in general. It's also been shown that single women are much better at taking care of themselves than single men.

 

My divorced male neighbor and I are a great illustrative example. He drinks too much, his place is kind of a mess, he eats TV dinners every night, and he will not stop hitting on me. I'm pretty healthy overall, my place is clean and inviting, I cook well-balanced meals every day, and I'm making the most of my single year, without a man in the picture.

 

The other day, I made strawberry pie, and I offered him a piece of that and a couple of slices of the homemade pizza I made for dinner. Since then, when he sees me, he asks what I'm making for dinner for us tonight.

[zhsoj]

I don't want to start a gender war but I think it's interesting how many people feel that men are unhappier single than women are.

 

I think we must run in different circles... I've always heard it the other way around.

 

There's even some studies that may support this.

 

Haha, ever notice how many women there are in the social sciences? Just saying...

 

 

Anyways, I'd point out some different perspectives (from a layman). From the biological perspective men can physically have sex with more women than women can men due to pregnancy. From an ecology perspective human females & males need to be around for the best chances of the survival of the offspring. Anthropology tells us however that it doesn't necessarily have to be the biological father, or even a single male, to effectively raise the off-spring... And I honestly don't know what sociology would say (honestly it feels like a catch-all science, right?), but perhaps it would be similar to psychology which is I think where the answer isn't so simple... But then I'm not very comfortable with psychology. Probably has more to do with culture than anything, right?

 

Of course we do know that humans are social creatures (hence all of the above sciences), and companionship of some form is beneficial to us. Which I think is the key. Anything but this results in answers that use culture to explain away differences. To me that really says it's irrelevant, unless of course you don't discount our social nature.

[EddieN]

I think it's true, in general. It's also been shown that single women are much better at taking care of themselves than single men.

 

My divorced male neighbor and I are a great illustrative example. He drinks too much, his place is kind of a mess, he eats TV dinners every night, and he will not stop hitting on me. I'm pretty healthy overall, my place is clean and inviting, I cook well-balanced meals every day, and I'm making the most of my single year, without a man in the picture.

 

The other day, I made strawberry pie, and I offered him a piece of that and a couple of slices of the homemade pizza I made for dinner. Since then, when he sees me, he asks what I'm making for dinner for us tonight.

 

But that's not fair to compare a perfectly capable person with a loser. That guy isn't the average single man, and I don't think you're the average single woman.

 

Besides, a woman might be able to feed herself and keep her house clean, but that doesn't mean she isn't pathetically desperate to find a man to latch onto.

[Isolde]

But that's not fair to compare a perfectly capable person with a loser. That guy isn't the average single man, and I don't think you're the average single woman.

 

Besides, a woman might be able to feed herself and keep her house clean, but that doesn't mean she isn't pathetically desperate to find a man to latch onto.

 

Exactly, men and women just "deal" with it differently. Also, your example is illustrative. Single women are seen as more desperate and in a more insidious manner than are single men. Either that, or they're not desperate enough. See what I mean? They can't just be normal.

[Trialbyfire]

Exactly, men and women just "deal" with it differently. Also, your example is illustrative. Single women are seen as more desperate and in a more insidious manner than are single men. Either that, or they're not desperate enough. See what I mean? They can't just be normal.

That's because Eddie sees himself as a prize.

[Sam Spade]

I'm so surprised that relationships are considered to be existentially important *at all*. I don't *need* a woman, and I'm not picky at all: I could spend the rest of my life with any pretty, polite, decent girl . The point being is that relationship is a partnership (in a rather mundane sense of the word), not necessarily a life-altering experience or whatever. It kind of bugs me that the expectation that once you find the *right* relationship, everything will fall into place.

 

Think for a second about your childhood. I'll bet 100 bucks that it was okay, but probably not "perfect". Thinking about my own, it was meh, not bad, not so great; but, I would *not* exchange it for any other, never. Extending that, our life and career trajectories, at the aggregate, are similarly unremarkable and imperfect, but our own. Yet, there is somehow the expectation that the 'right' relationship will transcend all this and elevate us god knows where. It is surprising, because any relationship is just a precursor to the imperfect, unremarkable, and generally decent childhood of our own children .

 

So, the question of "needing" a woman (or a man) IMO boils down to what needs said man or a woman is expected to fill. As far as I am concerned, a woman provides nice comforts, and can be a valuable partner, but is not a response to any *real* needs (or at least not one that can't be substituted), therefore I don't "need" one .

[EddieN]

That's because Eddie sees himself as a prize.

 

And you don't see yourself the same way?

 

Seeing yourself as a prize is good. It doesn't mean you can't have humility or realize when you're wrong, though.

[Trialbyfire]

And you don't see yourself the same way?

 

Seeing yourself as a prize is good. It doesn't mean you can't have humility or realize when you're wrong, though.

I've come to realize that believing yourself to be a prize is the wrong way to look at it. More than anything, it's about bringing compatible traits to the table and being unafraid to put them there, being unafraid to ask for what you want/need from each other.

[Ruby Slippers]

I have read a few good books that delve into this topic -- the myth of the lonely spinster and the freewheeling bachelor. I have seen a lot of good evidence to suggest that it's more often the other way around. I know that my single female friends seem to be much better off than my single male friends, in general.

 

In surveys of men and women after divorce, the majority of men report that their levels of happiness decrease, while most women report that their levels of happiness increase.

[Ruby Slippers]

But that's not fair to compare a perfectly capable person with a loser. That guy isn't the average single man, and I don't think you're the average single woman.

Point taken. And thanks.

[EddieN]

I've come to realize that believing yourself to be a prize is the wrong way to look at it. More than anything, it's about bringing compatible traits to the table and being unafraid to put them there, being unafraid to ask for what you want/need from each other.

 

Well, you and I have different goals. You are trying to make and maintain a lasting relationship. I am not. I'm just trying to enjoy whatever comes my way, whether it's just something quick or a young love that lasts a year or two. And if none of that happens, then it's cool, because I've got other things to enjoy.

 

So, seeing myself as a prize, one that can make mistakes and have flaws but is ultimately a worth-while one, isn't so wrong for me.

[Trialbyfire]

Well, you and I have different goals. You are trying to make and maintain a lasting relationship. I am not. I'm just trying to enjoy whatever comes my way, whether it's just something quick or a young love that lasts a year or two. And if none of that happens, then it's cool, because I've got other things to enjoy.

 

So, seeing myself as a prize, one that can make mistakes and have flaws but is ultimately a worth-while one, isn't so wrong for me.

Go back to my stage in life comment!

 

So Mr. Prize, what do you bring to the table, besides being still in school?

[EddieN]

I have read a few good books that delve into this topic -- the myth of the lonely spinster and the freewheeling bachelor. I have seen a lot of good evidence to suggest that it's more often the other way around. I know that my single female friends seem to be much better off than my single male friends, in general.

 

In surveys of men and women after divorce, the majority of men report that their levels of happiness decrease, while most women report that their levels of happiness increase.

 

I don't doubt it. There are plenty of single guys that feel like they NEED a woman. I've just seen opposite results as you - my male friends are less concerned with girls than my female friends are concerned with guys. I think this discrepancy is just a difference of perspective.

[sally4sara]

But that's not fair to compare a perfectly capable person with a loser. That guy isn't the average single man, and I don't think you're the average single woman.

 

Besides, a woman might be able to feed herself and keep her house clean, but that doesn't mean she isn't pathetically desperate to find a man to latch onto.

 

Actually she illustrates the kind of single guy you can find anywhere.

That is what we have done to our boys for generations. All was fine till women had options and didn't have to spend their lives taking care of whom ever their father approved of in town.

 

A woman like your example isn't much better and won't have the self esteem to see herself to any real success as a single person because she still believes deep down, she NEEDS a man.

[EddieN]

Go back to my stage in life comment!

 

So Mr. Prize, what do you bring to the table, besides being still in school?

 

Ah, I saw your comment, and I agree.

 

And on the topic of stages of life, I think a 20 year old prize can't necessarily compare to a 25 or 30 year old prize. Point is, I have what I need to have and more at my age, and if I keep up the good work I'll have a lot to bring to the table, as far as an established life goes, in the future.

 

All I can really bring to the table now is what I carry in my head and on my body.

[Isolde]

I've never met a single girl who thought her situation was ideal. With all due respect, RS, you've been in several LTR's, so it's not surprising you find singledom empowering (because it can be, certainly). It could also be the case for new divorcees, particularly if they're leaving a bad marriage. I think women are more adaptable to what life throws at them relationship wise (in general); that doesn't mean they're happier than the single men.

 

Sam Spade, while I won't deny you're a bit of a cynic, I think you make a really, really important point. Relationships don't change who you are, your strengths or your flaws. I wouldn't compare it to the naive passage of time in childhood, though. As an adult one has way more self knowledge and a certain amount of power over outcomes. I'd argue that's what makes people capable of loving romantically--the volition, the choice.

[Chrome Barracuda]

I don't want to start a gender war but I think it's interesting how many people feel that men are unhappier single than women are. There's even some studies that may support this.

 

I don't think I agree, though. While I admit men may have more of a need for sex than women and many may not want to get it casually, I think both sexes feel similar effects on balance. That women have careers, etc., is only a superficial measure of how happy they are without a certain type of companionship.

 

The deeper thing about this that disturbs me, is that it implies that women who are single are single just because they want to be, or because they're crazy, which as I've seen on this board, isn't true at all.

 

The tendency of dismissing women as unreasonable and finicky if they're single for a long time, stands in sharp contrast with the generally sympathetic portrayal of single men. I know a few girls in their twenties who are attractive, intelligent and very feminine, who have so much trouble meeting quality guys, it's not even funny. I don't know; perhaps they're too intelligent for their own good.

 

I rarely make feminist arguments but this is one area where I truly think expectations for women and men differ to an extent. Besides, ironically, I want to take a stand against the idea that we don't need guys in our lives anymore, outside of sex or "sperm donors." Oh God, yes we do!

 

Don't get me wrong. There are many great things about being single. But do I think I can deal with it, better than a guy could? Absolutely not. I think it's probably about equal--men and women just conceptualize and deal with singledom, differently.

 

LMAO really???

 

I dont think your seeing an upside you make it sound like men are so depressed without women. Really? I dont think it's accurate. While I would love have a woman that is going to be with me and make me great.

 

That would be nice, but I'm single I havent been spending on dates, no wasting my gas money. lol.

 

The guys I know that are cool with being single are not bitching and moaning crying over women.... lol.

 

We as men sometimes do it over times we dont. After a while we can remain on our own.

[Trialbyfire]

Just for fun, since men are so strong and independent, why are there so many, many more cynical and bitter men on LS, than women, on a pro-rata basis? It just goes to prove that women are far more resilient.

[Ruby Slippers]

I've never met a single girl who thought her situation was ideal.

There have been times in my life when I was very happy and fulfilled, but I hardly know ANYONE who thinks his/her situation is ideal, whether coupled up or not. Personally, I have never been able to sustain the level of happiness I would like in a relationship. I've been MORE successful at doing that solo, but that's not as easy as it used to be, either.

 

I have never felt that I need a man... but I want one. And sometimes I really wish I didn't. Curse of biology.

[Ruby Slippers]

I know a few girls in their twenties who are attractive, intelligent and very feminine, who have so much trouble meeting quality guys, it's not even funny. I don't know; perhaps they're too intelligent for their own good.

Yeah, I have noticed this, too. Most of the time, when a single gal friend of mine starts seeing someone, she seems beyond the guy. When my guy friends start seeing a woman, I often wonder, "What is she doing with him?"

[zhsoj]

Yeah, I have noticed this, too. Most of the time, when a single gal friend of mine starts seeing someone, she seems beyond the guy. When my guy friends start seeing a woman, I often wonder, "What is she doing with him?"

 

Wow... Ever considered you may be a closet misandrist?

[Ruby Slippers]

We all have our man or woman-hating phases, right? But I'm no hater.

 

I've read some stuff about how men are slipping as women continue to kick ass in college, in the workplace, and on the dating scene. And I look around and what do I see? The women my age that I know are working good jobs, going to school for advanced degrees, running their own companies. The men of comparable age and experience are alcoholics, living with their exes because they are unemployed, and bitching about how they can't get any ass on Craigslist.

 

I just call it like I see it.

[BobSacamento]

Relationships destroy good young women. The obsession with having a boyfriend and playing house makes them settle too soon. They let themselves go and become stuck with some loser out of fear of not finding something better. At least that's what I have witnessed. The single woman is a dying breed. Save her by dumping your live in boyfriends!

[carhill]

Just for fun, since men are so strong and independent, why are there so many, many more cynical and bitter men on LS, than women, on a pro-rata basis? It just goes to prove that women are far more resilient.

The cynical and bitter ones are just noisier

 

IMO, once men evolve to become collaborative instead of competitive, networking will replace rugged individualism and men as a whole will begin to live longer, healthier and happier lives, regardless of relationship status. Of course, this evolution hinges upon their role models and societal structures supporting this metamorphosis.

 

I have a feeling this comment was perhaps one impetus for this thread. The pragmatist in me examines all angles for relevance

[Trialbyfire]

The cynical and bitter ones are just noisier

 

IMO, once men evolve to become collaborative instead of competitive, networking will replace rugged individualism and men as a whole will begin to live longer, healthier and happier lives, regardless of relationship status. Of course, this evolution hinges upon their role models and societal structures supporting this metamorphosis.

But carhill, I hope not. That's one of the things that make you men, so interesting to us.