what is wrong with us women?

[jj33]

Dexter I think that is true of a lot of people who are not bothered by the fact that the person is married.

 

But by the time people post on this board very often they arent getting what they want out of it (exception of course for those just jumping in looking for advice, always told dont go there, and 99.9% of the time they dont listen)

[Mino]

Open Book there is a 50% divorce rate in the US - people make that decision all the time but that wasnt the point of my post. Please lets not let an interesting thread devolve once again into whether someone who leaves their children is a cretin. That was not the point of Minos thread.

 

My point was that when people are motivated to end a marriage, they do.

 

And that I totally agree with Minos question - why do women or men accept situations that arent working for them more - they need to ask themselves that question rather than trying to find excuses for why the MM or MW isnt behaving the way they want them to.

JJ33, yes of coarse I am also asking myself this question. After I have had time of NC, I can now look back, Sure I can say I was in love, I still love him, but my guy had mental issues, and i did justify alot through his condition. I was there watching him take his steps. Very very slow, but he took them. After the "honeymoon stage was over, it did get tiresome. When he moved into his place, Ic said to go nc for 6 months, I didnt, I couldnt. Today looking back, I ask myself why not? Most people would run knowing someone had major issues. I didnt. So now, of coarse I want to learn from my mistakes, and of coarse I am trying to figure out for myself, why I went on this journey in the first place. The reason I posted this thread, is that I went to Harley sight. I was surpirsed of some of the things bs wrote. I see they are just as "stuck" as we are. They (on that site) put up with as much pain as we do, and still hang on. why??? That is where I am, Is this just the nature of women, to endure until we cant take it another day? And please dont say, bs should take more cause they have a peice of paper in hand. Both BS and O/w gave their heart to this man. The pain is no different.

[Mino]

Or, not unlike many women in that same position, she's a nut job who was counting on parlaying that "one drink" into something more.

14b hour train ride for a drink and to get layed? HUH? If she traveled that far for that she must really be a "dog" Think of how much that ticket cost her for a 14 hour train ride, several hundred of dollars, I am sure. She could have hired someone cheaper! I dont buy it...there is more to the story then op knows. And that is part of my point, denial is a beautiful thing... but why do we really want to deny, out of love? out of fear? out of responsibity? out of ????????

[Mino]

I think, from personal experience, that it's different when it's you. I was one of the women who said I would never stay if my H had an A. I was convinced that it would be a decision I would never have to make. I helped friends through it, told them to leave their men, not to tolerate the crap that they were being put through..

 

Then it happened to me. And all that strength and fight drained right out of me. Because my situation was "different". People didn't see the side of my H I did, they didn't know how SORRY he was, how charming, how fast he threw the OW under the bus.

 

And the strong part of me woke up, and helped fix the issues in my marriage that I was responsible for, and to stop taking responisblity for stuff that wasn't my doing. But I was willing, at first to accept a whole lot of crap because I was in denial about what was happening in my own life.

I can respect that. We never really know until we are in a situation, I am happy for you that you found your inner strength. good luck, sounds like your on the right path!

[Mino]

according to you, you put up with it because you are getting what you want out of it based on a post you made sometime last year.

 

you are happy to be with a MM as long as you are getting what you want out of it. You have no basis to complain and ask "what is wrong with us women....." someone like your MM's wife needs to be asking this question.

Hi Dexter. Hmmm, if I made a comment like that, it had to be for a reason, and the only reason I can think of is somebody made a stupid comment here and I replied with a stupid answer. In reality, I am not a cold hearted B. Wish I could be sometimes.

[Mino]

I have to disagree to an extent Dexter. Both women/men in an affair triangle, whether it's the betrayed spouse or the OM/OW, have to examine why they're satisfied or at minimum why they remain in something that's highly dysfunctional. In this the question is, how little do you value yourself?

Hi TF, And that is why I am searching for my own answers. My guy had mental issues as well, this was painful, for me, his w, and it still is. I am trying to understand the "whys at this point, I dont beleive it was a lack of self value. It was more about being selfless, putting him before me. Until I couldnt anymore

[clv0116]

..... so the only person in that scenario that is putting up with anything is the MM's wife.

 

 

Every scenario is different.

 

 

Maybe the wife is refusing him sex, and cannot articulate why she is doing so. Perhaps he's frustrated and while he loves his wife and family he's finding it hard to ignore what are in reality normal and healthy urges.

 

 

Or maybe the wife suspects but as long as the status quo is preserved and the affair is carried on in a way that preserves her dignity, doesn't really care.

 

 

Who knows.

[bentnotbroken]

Every scenario is different.

 

 

Maybe the wife is refusing him sex, and cannot articulate why she is doing so. Perhaps he's frustrated and while he loves his wife and family he's finding it hard to ignore what are in reality normal and healthy urges.

 

 

Or maybe the wife suspects but as long as the status quo is preserved and the affair is carried on in a way that preserves her dignity, doesn't really care.

 

 

Who knows.

 

And maybe he is just an azz who needs a foot broke off in his.

[clv0116]

And maybe he is just an azz who needs a foot broke off in his.

 

Always a possibility, and maybe it's just the people I am around but affairs (or even divorce) are rare in my circle and when they happen it's always in a marriage that was obviously miserable for one or both for an extended period of time.

[LaGazelle]

14b hour train ride for a drink and to get layed? HUH? If she traveled that far for that she must really be a "dog" Think of how much that ticket cost her for a 14 hour train ride, several hundred of dollars, I am sure. She could have hired someone cheaper! I dont buy it...there is more to the story then op knows. And that is part of my point, denial is a beautiful thing... but why do we really want to deny, out of love? out of fear? out of responsibity? out of ????????

 

Mino, perhaps it is best you just "get over" my story and focus on yourself. You are the one in denial. You have attacked me a few times over my story, and what you fail to accept is that I had hard evidence of how the dalliance transpired and whether you like it or not, I chose to recover my relationship and am very happy with my decision.

 

The woman concerned lives in a "poor" country in a part of Europe, which probably explains a lot of her behaviour. But actually I see women in my own country with the same behaviours. Everyone who knows what happened, even her best friend who was with her at the time, makes "bag-a-millionaire" jokes about her. Women give away too much these days for too little in return.

 

It was also clear from her correspondence that she fell for him (too easily, mind) and not just the trappings. From her emails and chats, it was clear she also had a lot of psychological/attachment issues. That is why I questioned my H's character - he was willing to take advatange of a ONS with someone so vulnerable.

 

Whether or not you buy my story, it is what it is. I suggest you just get over it, move on, and focus on your own story, soul-searching and self-discovery which you say you need to do in order to understand your motivations for choosing to accept crumbs from a MM who did not put you first and threw you under a bus when the cr*p hit the fan.

[Mino]

Mino, perhaps it is best you just "get over" my story and focus on yourself. You are the one in denial. You have attacked me a few times over my story, and what you fail to accept is that I had hard evidence of how the dalliance transpired and whether you like it or not, I chose to recover my relationship and am very happy with my decision.

 

The woman concerned lives in a "poor" country in a part of Europe, which probably explains a lot of her behaviour. But actually I see women in my own country with the same behaviours. Everyone who knows what happened, even her best friend who was with her at the time, makes "bag-a-millionaire" jokes about her. Women give away too much these days for too little in return.

 

It was also clear from her correspondence that she fell for him (too easily, mind) and not just the trappings. From her emails and chats, it was clear she also had a lot of psychological/attachment issues. That is why I questioned my H's character - he was willing to take advatange of a ONS with someone so vulnerable.

 

Whether or not you buy my story, it is what it is. I suggest you just get over it, move on, and focus on your own story, soul-searching and self-discovery which you say you need to do in order to understand your motivations for choosing to accept crumbs from a MM who did not put you first and threw you under a bus when the cr*p hit the fan.

Hi, Its really not about "the story" its about how you accept truth, and decide to stay. Even when you know the mans character, his abilities to cheat. What is the reason you stayed? Accepting crumbs, No I dont look at it like that, I may not have had everything I wanted, but he did move out and we did live together. Thrown under the bus, no to that too. I left him, It was to much and I needed a clear head and to focus on me again, to much energy was spent into trying to heal him. I am not looking to argue with you, I am merely trying to understand you, and myself, on why we put up with the crap for longer then a minute. That is what this tread is about. I doubt that they are many many that will go through the same drama, so what makes women different? I do hope that all works out for you, you deserve to be happy

[Mino]

No, not necessarily a "dog," but like I said, perhaps a nut case. Anna Nicole was a BEAUTIFUL woman, but a perfect example of a nut case, poor girl. We have all heard or been involved in stories of people who are crazy. Hell, I was being harassed and stalked by a gal because her boyfriend had, in the past, tried to get with me, but he just wasn't my type. We were friends ONLY. Once he began to date her, he was no longer allowed to even LOOK at me, let alone speak to me. Our group tried to include her and welcome her in - I was happy for him that he'd found a girlfriend! Well, for some reason she wouldn't let go of the notion that I was going to steal him from her, and no amount of reasoning with the girl would dissuade her. She started spreading vicious rumours about me and was stalking me via my cell phone, calling me over and over, sometimes at 1, 2 in the morning, and one day calling about 25 times without saying a word when I answered. Once, after a night out, she was stopped by the cops and handed a DWI because she was racing at 75 mph on the way to his house to "catch us" together. I was home in bed ALONE at the time.

 

So, yes. Some people are just nut jobs and go to great lengths in an attempt to appease their dillusions.

 

I don't know why you feel you would know more about Lagazelle's story when you weren't a player in it and she was.

Wow, what a story, how long did you put up with that? weeks?n months? And your right I was not there at Lagazelles story, but I do wonder the how we "buy into some of the storys these men put out.

[Ms. Red]

Hi, Its really not about "the story" its about how you accept truth, and decide to stay. Even when you know the mans character, his abilities to cheat. What is the reason you stayed?

 

I agree because earlier you said:

 

A lot of you here are just desperate to see what you want to see. He was not my husband at the time!

 

Now, please correct me if I'm wrong. However, I take it that he cheated on you & had a ONS w/ the OW before you were married & you still married him knowing this? If so, then you totally fit in with the topic of this thread as, "What is wrong with us women that we put up with this crap from men?"

[Mino]

I agree because earlier you said:

 

 

 

Now, please correct me if I'm wrong. However, I take it that he cheated on you & had a ONS w/ the OW before you were married & you still married him knowing this? If so, then you totally fit in with the topic of this thread as, "What is wrong with us women that we put up with this crap from men?"

Thank You Ms, Red, that is exactly where I was going with my thoughts! These are the questions I am not only asking the OW, but also the BS, And the piece of paper, the vows, are not enough to justify the reason. I am trying to go deeper into why.

[Mino]

It was months. Later on it was confirmed by people who know her quite well - coworkers and such - that she is an absolute lunatic. She seemed so normal and nice! The sad part is, my friend, the male half of that story, is still with her even though he had broken up with her at one point over her crazy antics. That very fact solidified in my mind that I was right about why he wasn't my type - because though I want a man who cares about me, I didn't want a lap dog, and I had the feeling that he would put up with any amount of crap just to have a woman, and I was right. Though I don't behave that way in a relationship, I still wouldn't want a man like that.

Well I am happy for you to have seen through his crap!

[Ms. Red]

Maybe in YOUR opinion, every cheating situation needs to culminate in an ending of the relationship. However, not everyone feels the same way. In fact, I would have to say that Mino (not trying to make you feel bad, Mino, but just using an example) put up with WAY more crap from her guy than a woman whose man had a ONS with a woman prior to marriage, even though it was during their relationship. It is how the cheater deals with the discovery of their infidelity that matters most to some. Apparently, Lagazelle falls into that category, and apparently her man took steps to make amends and correct his deficiencies to her satisfaction.

 

I'm not in the opinion that every cheating situation should end in a termination of the relationship. I am just trying to understand how (if it's the case w/ LaGazelle) one can forgive a cheater & go on to marry them. I feel that when dating or engaged one should be showing the best of themselves. That is the time to show how deep your feelings are towards our SO. To cheat on them is showing the worst of character. If one can't be faithful in that stage of a relationship, I would question how they could be faithful in matrimony.

 

I think it's great LaGazelle, that you have so much faith & trust in your H. I actually envy you that you feel you have such a great marriage. I mourn the loss of my marriage. My H never cheated. He just didn't contribute to the household & parenting as a H should.

[silktricks]

Hi, Its really not about "the story" its about how you accept truth, and decide to stay. Even when you know the mans character, his abilities to cheat. What is the reason you stayed? Accepting crumbs,

 

{snip}

 

I am merely trying to understand you, and myself, on why we put up with the crap for longer then a minute. That is what this tread is about. I doubt that they are many many that will go through the same drama, so what makes women different? I do hope that all works out for you, you deserve to be happy

 

There are so many things wrong here that I'm not sure where to start.

 

First, the idea that a BS who decides to stay and attempt to recover the marriage is "accepting crumbs".... this is a theme that I've heard often from both OW's and former BS who decide to leave. You have made assumptions that may be true for you, but are decidedly untrue for those of us who have recovered our marriages.

 

We refuse to accept "crumbs". Once we find out about the affair it is over or we are gone. That isn't accepting "crumbs" that is demanding good treatment. Those of us who have recovered our marriages post-affairs do not ever again settle for less than... though we may have during the affair in ignorance - not knowing what was happening - after D-Day??? No, never again.

 

Second, your statement about women accepting bad behavior and men not? I say that is absolute horsepucky . I see men every day being treated as if they are little better than lackeys by the women in their lives. It seems as if many women think they are so great that they can treat men as if they are somewhat lower than the slugs that crawl on the ground. It's my opinion that men accept FAR worse behavior from women than most women accept from men, and usually for far longer before they rebel and either leave or have an affair or something.

[Trialbyfire]

Hi TF, And that is why I am searching for my own answers. My guy had mental issues as well, this was painful, for me, his w, and it still is. I am trying to understand the "whys at this point, I dont beleive it was a lack of self value. It was more about being selfless, putting him before me. Until I couldnt anymore

What you're stating is a lack of self value. When someone puts another before them in a dysfunctional situation caused by the selfish person, why are their needs worth less than the selfish person's needs?

[Ms. Red]

Second, your statement about women accepting bad behavior and men not? I say that is absolute horsepucky . I see men every day being treated as if they are little better than lackeys by the women in their lives. It seems as if many women think they are so great that they can treat men as if they are somewhat lower than the slugs that crawl on the ground. It's my opinion that men accept FAR worse behavior from women than most women accept from men, and usually for far longer before they rebel and either leave or have an affair or something.

 

 

I have to agree with you on that SilkTricks. I think that men clam up & just keep their $hit/pain inside. They just don't spread it around & discuss it like women. Therefore, it seems they are not going through the emotional crap that women talk....talk...talk...bitch about!

 

No dis on my sista's w/ the above statement. It's just that we are more vocal than doods & I'm just stating a fact.

 

Men suffer in silence while women make it known that they were done wrong.

[Dexter Morgan]

Hi Dexter. Hmmm, if I made a comment like that, it had to be for a reason, and the only reason I can think of is somebody made a stupid comment here and I replied with a stupid answer.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t159355/

 

 

In reality, I am not a cold hearted B. Wish I could be sometimes.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t159355/

[Gamine]

I've read OW's statements that MM CHOOSE to be with the OP... and the MM is with their wife because they have to be.

 

Sometimes the affairs are actually based on legitimate feelings between the MM and OW.

 

Other times the affairs are the equivalent of a MM getting sexual variety and additional attention.

 

Some men use hookers for this very same purpose.

 

My husband sees a therapist/psychologist regarding issues that led to his brief infidelity last year. Interestingly enough, the psychologist says that proportionately the amount of MW who cheat is far greater than the number of MM who cheat... and that the numbers are rising. In his practice the ratio is now almost two to one. He also observes that men are more apt to forgive the transgressions of their spouse than are women. And... that women rarely forgive and that when they do it is a huge thing.

 

So statistically speaking, there are more MW cheating than there are MM.

 

And, the BW who forgives is a rare individual indeed.

 

So what makes this woman different from the others who cannot forgive it? I think it lies in being able to see the 'big picture' regarding their life and the significance or insignificance of the affair. Even some long term affairs are insignificant to the party engaged in the affair. Reading stories of people who have had long term affairs, some state that they were in it for excitement because... quite simply... they are not monogamous individuals. I don't think that it can be necessarily construed as the OP having any real value simply because they are there for 'entertainment' purposes. Again, there are examples whereby the affair is based on genuine emotions and a genuine chemistry. Other times, it is merely an inexpensive alternative to using prostitutes to get the very same thing... with the added advantage of the excitement of having their ego stroked.

 

So is it really a decision of CHOICE to be with the OW over the wife? With the wife being the obligation? I don't think so. I sort of see it like this... the wife is the beverage, the appetizer, the salad and the main course and the dessert. The OW can sometimes be simply the napkin.

 

For MM whose OW was the napkin it is far easier to work to forgive the affair. For me, however, it was absolutely contingent upon my husband growing up and getting professional help. Which, by the way, is indicative of the fact that I believe he had to have a screw loose to want or need someone inferior to me for entertainment purposes. And, yes, I do believe she was inferior. She was a MW and personally (yes, I am entitled to my opinion) speaking see any MW or MM screwing around just for the sake of screwing broken and lost. Well deserving of my sympathies.

 

It takes a tremendous capacity to exercise wisdom and avoid knee jerk reactions to problems in marriages even if the problem involves lying and cheating. Mino, I honestly believe that when you have something that has proven to be 'worth it' there is a tendency to exercise wisdom, rather than impetuous anger over drawing lines in the sand.

 

I want to applaud LaGazelle for her integrity and balanced approach to life.

[Mino]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t159355/ Hi Dex, This is true, I had all his love, no doubt on that one, except of coarse which was shared with his child:)

 

 

 

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t159355/

This is also true, his love was what was important to me, not the peice of paper. I dont want anyone to be with me out of obligation. This was not intented a a Bitchy statement, it is how I feel. A marriage certificate has never been on my list of "must have' in my life.

[Dexter Morgan]

This is also true, his love was what was important to me, not the peice of paper. I dont want anyone to be with me out of obligation.

 

your argument for this thread is why do women put up with it. You stated that you are getting what you want and aren't sharing anything about him you don't want to share.

 

so with that you weren't "putting up" with anything. Only person putting up with it was his wife.

 

 

This was not intented a a Bitchy statement

 

puhleeeease

 

 

A marriage certificate has never been on my list of "must have' in my life.

 

and in the end, since this man was so worth helpig to betray another woman over....what is the status of you and this MM now?

afterall, you have "ALL" of his "love"......."all of it".....right?

[Mino]

What you're stating is a lack of self value. When someone puts another before them in a dysfunctional situation caused by the selfish person, why are their needs worth less than the selfish person's needs?

TF, that is what i am searching for. I have been racking my brain on that. I am a very strong, self confident , successful woman. My guy has ocd, I had my hands full with just "wierd situations, After moving back to my house, I find it is falling apart:confused:, I have not even done my taxes Yet:eek:, Everything has been tossed aside for almost a year. Now I am playing catch up, I feel overwhelmed some days, but slowly I am getting it together. But I question myself, how could I have focused so much energy on him, What was I thinking? I sometimes think because my child was off to college, that I kinda adoped him to continue feeling needed. I dont know...I am sure thsat was part of it. I know there are many layers of why, and if I dont find my answers it was all for nothing, thats why I am digging;)

[Mino]

your argument for this thread is why do women put up with it. You stated that you are getting what you want and aren't sharing anything about him you don't want to share.

 

so with that you weren't "putting up" with anything. Only person putting up with it was his wife.

 

 

 

 

puhleeeease

 

 

 

 

and in the end, since this man was so worth helpig to betray another woman over....what is the status of you and this MM now?

afterall, you have "ALL" of his "love"......."all of it".....right?

Dont know about w, cant speak for her. I assume she put up with it, since she knw of him twice traveling across the ocean with me, and 3 move outs... My status.... its done, I walked away,