fooled once Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 She dumped my H about 2 years before her H died. Then just before he died she arranged a lunch with my H on Valentine's day last year. Her H died a few weeks later and within a week of his funeral she was trying to get back with my H, but not just as an OW - this time she wanted him to leave me. They then resumed frequent meetings until I found out about it a few months later. Sid -- I really think the problem is your husband. She dumped your husband. Your husband then met with her again, 2 years later. You are making assumptions Her H died a few weeks later and within a week of his funeral she was trying to get back with my H Seems like your husband may have filled HER head with crap; such as having a bad marriage, mean wife, blah blah blah. Instead of focusing on HER and HER son, put that much energy into deciding if you really can FORGIVE him and rebuild your marriage He has already told you he doesn't want a DNA test. YOU are the one pursuing it and honestly, with how dishonest your husband has been, pushing this IMHO is only going to keep contact with the OW. IF she wanted him, she would have told him it was his son. She has NOT done that. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Sid -- I really think the problem is your husband. She dumped your husband. Your husband then met with her again, 2 years later. You are making assumptions Her H died a few weeks later and within a week of his funeral she was trying to get back with my H Seems like your husband may have filled HER head with crap; such as having a bad marriage, mean wife, blah blah blah. Instead of focusing on HER and HER son, put that much energy into deciding if you really can FORGIVE him and rebuild your marriage He has already told you he doesn't want a DNA test. YOU are the one pursuing it and honestly, with how dishonest your husband has been, pushing this IMHO is only going to keep contact with the OW. IF she wanted him, she would have told him it was his son. She has NOT done that. I so agree with this. But I still think there is a possibility that the child belongs to her H. The fact that the OW dumped him lends to this to me. It keeps her H from suspecting that he might not be the father (the one that died) and from her H thinking that he might in that she dumped him to focus on her family. The rate of men raising children that aren't theirs is 20% right now. Its very possible that she now thinks she has the opportunity to be with her son's *real* father. But she isn't likely to just volunteer that info to Syd thinking it might make her dig in further to keep her son from having his father (if that's the case). Link to post Share on other sites
whimsical_memory Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I so agree with this. But I still think there is a possibility that the child belongs to her H. The fact that the OW dumped him lends to this to me. It keeps her H from suspecting that he might not be the father (the one that died) and from her H thinking that he might in that she dumped him to focus on her family. The rate of men raising children that aren't theirs is 20% right now. Its very possible that she now thinks she has the opportunity to be with her son's *real* father. But she isn't likely to just volunteer that info to Syd thinking it might make her dig in further to keep her son from having his father (if that's the case). In the original post (OP? I dunno, I'm still trying to catch on to the lingo!) she stated that her husband was told by the OW that PRIOR to their sleeping together, she was already pregnant. So, again...unless I'm just really, really dense (which is possible..lol) I do not see how this child could be her H's? Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Looks to me like Syd is looking for a reason to divorce her H' date=' to be honest.[/quote'] Interesting point.. I never thought about that.. Sid, is that the case ? Link to post Share on other sites
Jilly Bean Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I can't imagine why you would want to torture yourself and create all this drama. I've honestly never heard of a wife pushing for such things, and 6 years after the affair no less! I would let this go, and focus on your marriage. Time to move on. Seems like everyone else has... Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 In the original post (OP? I dunno, I'm still trying to catch on to the lingo!) she stated that her husband was told by the OW that PRIOR to their sleeping together, she was already pregnant. So, again...unless I'm just really, really dense (which is possible..lol) I do not see how this child could be her H's? Good point. This only reinforces my feeling that Syd is just looking for an excuse to divorce her previously unfaithful H. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SidLyon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Good point. This only reinforces my feeling that Syd is just looking for an excuse to divorce her previously unfaithful H. Thanks everybody - some very valid points have been made. It really is that I feel all knowable facts should be known; and whether or not my H is the father of another son is one of those. I have no special reason to believe anything the OW says me but I do know for a fact that my H and she started having sex at around the time of conception. My H cannot now remember the exact date but the secret hotmail account he set up was on 23 Jan 02 for the specific purpose of communicating with the OW. The baby was born on 17 Oct 02. He says she told him she was already pregnant, but I also found a story he wrote for her in which a woman sets up a man to be the father of her child. To me this is sufficient to introduce much doubt. I'm not looking for any further excuses to break up with my H - believe me I have plenty enough already - we are genuinely trying to rebuild our marriage. Here in this country you cannot simply file for a divorce on a whim - there has to be an irretrievable breakdown of the marriage and this usually means the parties must have been living apart for at least a year. As a said in several early posts we have put it on the back burner - I didn't mention before but at the time of d-day, my H agreed (very reluctantly) that he would contact her after one year to ask for a paternity test. He wanted to allow her a year of NC to give her the chance to move on. NC hasn't been 100% successful and I felt - why wait? I hope with everything I have that he is not my H's son but if he is I feel my family need to know this. If he is my H's son and it therefore means that my H would rather be with her than with me then I would prefer this happens sooner rather than later. I don't want to rebuild my marriage only to have this particular can of worms surface later. S Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Thanks everybody - some very valid points have been made. It really is that I feel all knowable facts should be known; and whether or not my H is the father of another son is one of those. I have no special reason to believe anything the OW says me but I do know for a fact that my H and she started having sex at around the time of conception. My H cannot now remember the exact date but the secret hotmail account he set up was on 23 Jan 02 for the specific purpose of communicating with the OW. The baby was born on 17 Oct 02. He says she told him she was already pregnant, but I also found a story he wrote for her in which a woman sets up a man to be the father of her child. To me this is sufficient to introduce much doubt. I'm not looking for any further excuses to break up with my H - believe me I have plenty enough already - we are genuinely trying to rebuild our marriage. Here in this country you cannot simply file for a divorce on a whim - there has to be an irretrievable breakdown of the marriage and this usually means the parties must have been living apart for at least a year. As a said in several early posts we have put it on the back burner - I didn't mention before but at the time of d-day, my H agreed (very reluctantly) that he would contact her after one year to ask for a paternity test. He wanted to allow her a year of NC to give her the chance to move on. NC hasn't been 100% successful and I felt - why wait? I hope with everything I have that he is not my H's son but if he is I feel my family need to know this. If he is my H's son and it therefore means that my H would rather be with her than with me then I would prefer this happens sooner rather than later. I don't want to rebuild my marriage only to have this particular can of worms surface later. S I hope you don't feel that my quoted post is meant as a poor reflection on you. Its not. I meant it more in the vein of the bolded quote above. But if it felt like I was being negative, I apologize. That was not my intention. I would not want to be rebuilding my marriage only to find something like that out later either - if it would change the outcome of reconciling. Again, if you want to know, you want to know and I see nothing wrong with that. But its good that you are tabling it for a little bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Again, if you want to know, you want to know and I see nothing wrong with that. There is the issue of getting the mother of the minor to agree to any testing even if it is done later on.. not only does the mother have to agree but she also has to give her own DNA up for the test and be tested as well. If her DNA is not able to be given she will have to sign off for the minor child.. You can't just legally do DNA testing on anybody you feel you want to without a court order... That has been my biggest issue with this thread is that it is dealing with the property rights of a minor and the OP isn't even connected to the child she wants to test.. You can't just start testing someone else's child for DNA Paternity testing.. In the UK they have the Human Tissue Act of 2004 which prohibits covertly collecting any person's tissue for DNA analysis Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 There is the issue of getting the mother of the minor to agree to any testing even if it is done later on.. not only does the mother have to agree but she also has to give her own DNA up for the test and be tested as well. If her DNA is not able to be given she will have to sign off for the minor child.. This is NOT true. The mother does NOT need to be tested for a PATERNITY test. You can't just legally do DNA testing on anybody you feel you want to without a court order... That has been my biggest issue with this thread is that it is dealing with the property rights of a minor and the OP isn't even connected to the child she wants to test.. You can't just start testing someone else's child for DNA Paternity testing.. In the UK they have the Human Tissue Act of 2004 which prohibits covertly collecting any person's tissue for DNA analysis Regardless of your personal issue with her thread, the point is that she wants to know and there is NOTHING wrong with WANTING to know. Testing illegally is another topic. Wanting to know is all I said in your quote. Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 This is NOT true. The mother does NOT need to be tested for a PATERNITY test. It is preferred but not required.. any court ordered test would have all three donors DNA pulled..it is also preferred by the testing companies..but if the mothers DNA is not given she still has to give her legal signature for the testing. You cannot just go around testing peoples DNA without their consent Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 It is preferred but not required.. any court ordered test would have all three donors DNA pulled..it is also preferred by the testing companies..but if the mothers DNA is not given she still has to give her legal signature for the testing. You cannot just go around testing peoples DNA without their consent So you are agreeing that the mother's DNA is not required. Its a paternity test. A signature and consent is NOT DNA. Why are you still harping about the no consent thing. Its been dropped. She wants to know, but is obviously pushing her H to do it legally. There is a point when you will need to drop that tagline. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SidLyon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 There is the issue of getting the mother of the minor to agree to any testing even if it is done later on.. not only does the mother have to agree but she also has to give her own DNA up for the test and be tested as well. If her DNA is not able to be given she will have to sign off for the minor child.. You can't just legally do DNA testing on anybody you feel you want to without a court order... That has been my biggest issue with this thread is that it is dealing with the property rights of a minor and the OP isn't even connected to the child she wants to test.. You can't just start testing someone else's child for DNA Paternity testing.. In the UK they have the Human Tissue Act of 2004 which prohibits covertly collecting any person's tissue for DNA analysis There are 2 ways it can be done legally; with the consent of the parties or by Court order. I never even realised until now that people were interpreting what I said as suggesting that it would be done illegally. I never intended to suggest that and don't think anything I said could have been interpreted that way. And no I have had no thoughts of doing it in an illegal or improper manner. S Link to post Share on other sites
MistyK Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Sid, I guess I'm curious why you want to open this pandora's box now, when you otherwise seem to be on the road to healing. Going over there to "return" gifts she gave him seems to have been driven by a desire to confront the other woman when you could have as easily thrown the things away. Surely you had to know that kind of thing would be hurtful to the OW and cause her to reach out to your H. Is there any small part of you that hopes the child is your H's so you can fight for custody and hurt the OW back? Or are you possibly looking for an "out" to working on your marriage? Just something to consider.... I really don't think you or your children have anything to gain with a legal battle, especially if things have already sort of calmed down. And I hate to say it, but if the boy is your H's and the OW's, they are the parents and have a right to raise their son as they see fit, and that may just include your H pretending not to be his father. And likewise that can include your H and the OW not wanting interaction between all your kids (assuming he turns out to be the father). I'm guessing that even if you get your way, and he does turn out the be the dad, your H will fight to maintain the status quo - supposedly ignoring the OW,.....but since he will always have that connection and may well refuse to bring it out in the open, YOU will be stuck with the constant seed of doubt about him. Where's the gain here? Secondly, I wonder why your H is fighting it. If he's truly so sure, why wouldn't he be eager to prove it to put your mind at rest? In light of the story he wrote, I'd certainly think there's reason to believe he is the father. And if so - if he set out to create a child to abandon, does that change your perception of him? Is that what this is really about - re-learning who he is? Link to post Share on other sites
Author SidLyon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Sid, I guess I'm curious why you want to open this pandora's box now, when you otherwise seem to be on the road to healing. Going over there to "return" gifts she gave him seems to have been driven by a desire to confront the other woman when you could have as easily thrown the things away. Surely you had to know that kind of thing would be hurtful to the OW and cause her to reach out to your H. Is there any small part of you that hopes the child is your H's so you can fight for custody and hurt the OW back? Or are you possibly looking for an "out" to working on your marriage? Just something to consider.... I really don't think you or your children have anything to gain with a legal battle, especially if things have already sort of calmed down. And I hate to say it, but if the boy is your H's and the OW's, they are the parents and have a right to raise their son as they see fit, and that may just include your H pretending not to be his father. In light of the story he wrote, I'd certainly think there's reason to believe he is the father. And if so - if he set out to create a child to abandon, does that change your perception of him? Is that what this is really about - re-learning who he is? I seem to be repeating that I just want to know - it's something that I feel affects the life of me, my H and my family. People keep asking the same question so clearly my answer doesn't satisfy - I don't know what else to say. I have no thoughts of stealing her child away and fully accept that any initial decisions about his upbringing rest with his parents and if that's my H so be it. If my H is the father (which is not yet proven) and if he and the OW decide that my H will have some access then I may be involved especially if it means contact with my own children. This is not a lot different to any other blended family. My visit to her helped with some closure to me and I was not motivated by any particular care for her. S Link to post Share on other sites
MistyK Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 My visit to her helped with some closure to me and I was not motivated by any particular care for her. S I just mean that it seemed purely retaliatory to give her gifts back, more about a desire to hurt her than to really heal yourself. Trust me, I understand the desire to lash out at those who've hurt you, but I'm just saying that trying to find ways to hurt her (even if unconsciously), really only ends up holding you back from healing. And, it had the boomerang effect of causing her to reach out to your H. I think it may really be best just to stay away from her.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author SidLyon Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 I just mean that it seemed purely retaliatory to give her gifts back, more about a desire to hurt her than to really heal yourself. Trust me, I understand the desire to lash out at those who've hurt you, but I'm just saying that trying to find ways to hurt her (even if unconsciously), really only ends up holding you back from healing. And, it had the boomerang effect of causing her to reach out to your H. I think it may really be best just to stay away from her.... I wanted an excuse to see her for myself and returning the gifts provided that - probably not a particularly good excuse, but I had no pride left by that time. I think I wrote in a different thread that this definitely helped me. Obviously if I'm unconsciously trying to hurt her, I don't know about it, so I can't really comment. However I would probably feel a small measure of satisfaction knowing she is hurt. I'm not particularly proud of this. I have no desire to have any further contact with her and just want the paternity issue sorted out so if my H is not the father there are no further ties and nothing to raise its ugly head again in future. S Link to post Share on other sites
jj33 Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Sid have you discussed this plan with a therapist? Maybe they can help you to see what you can not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SidLyon Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Sid have you discussed this plan with a therapist? Maybe they can help you to see what you can not. Your comment seems to indicate that you think I'm missing something very obvious and that a therapist would be able to identify what that is. Yes - we went to a psychologist as a couple and we each went to a psychologist as individuals. It was raised with them and to be quite honest it wasn't particularly focussed on and seemed to be a foregone conclusion that a paternity test would be done at some stage. I'm wondering if there is actually a cultural difference in the way parentage is viewed here in Australia compared to other countries. Just by way of illustration, our Family Law Act contains the following: "The objects of this Part are to ensure that the best interests of children are met by: (a) ensuring that children have the benefit of both of their parents having a meaningful involvement in their lives, to the maximum extent consistent with the best interests of the child; and... (2 )The principles underlying these objects are that (except when it is or would be contrary to a child’s best interests): (a) children have the right to know and be cared for by both their parents, regardless of whether their parents are married, separated, have never married or have never lived together; and (b) children have a right to spend time on a regular basis with, and communicate on a regular basis with, both their parents and other people significant to their care, welfare and development (such as grandparents and other relatives); and © parents jointly share duties and responsibilities concerning the care, welfare and development of their children; and..." It seems to be just generally understood here, that children have a legal right to know who their parents are and have a right to interaction with their parents and other relatives, including grandparents and half-siblings. You will probably all point out that this is subject to it being in the child's best interests. True; but that is for the Court to decide based on whatever evidence is presented by the parties including paternity tests. I think it unlikely that a Court would decide it wasn't even in the child's best interests to take a case to court – that would seem a circular and Catch 22 argument to me. Anyway I've already said that the legal route is not the preferred option anyway. To be quite honest I can't see much point in continuing this thread. Rightly or wrongly I have interpreted some of the comments as some sort of attack on me for not thinking the same way. I'm a product of the culture I live in where most people consider it important that family relationships are known. Link to post Share on other sites
MistyK Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Sid, I hate to keep coming back to this, but the real problem here is that you don't trust your husband (based on his story, his past history of lying, and the conveinience of her pregnancy announcement before they supposedly had sex.) Rest assured that at some point this child will hear of the affair and question his own paternity. It is then his own choice whether he wants to pursue it any further. A friend of mine just went through this - his mother told him that his biological father was actually his uncle in a drunken stupor when he was a teenager. Now in his 40's, after the death of his mother, he got a paternity test just to find out because he wanted to know. At any rate, is this push really a desire to make sure the child knows that his mother had an affair? (Does it bother you that he doesn't know about his mother's past?...like you on some level want to demonize her to the child?) Again, I understand the desire for revenge, but I'm just not seeing any positive to pursuing this quest. Link to post Share on other sites
jj33 Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 No Sid. Parentage is not viewed any differently in the United States. My reaction is based much more on what Misty said above. It was also based on your statement that if you are unconsiously or subconsciously trying to hurt her you are not aware of it. You seem motivated by revenge (ex your visit returning the gifts) and intent on denying your real motives here. Yes you have a "hook" but none of us are buying it. Link to post Share on other sites
fooled once Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 But Sid, your husband has said he does not want this; yet you continue on it. And if he doesn't want it and the mother doesn't authorize it, how to you think a DNA test will be done; because you want it? No court will grant a DNA testing because YOU want it. I agree, I believe it is a huge trust issue with your husband. And what happens if DNA testing IS done and he is the father and HE decides he does NOT want a relationship with the child? What about if he DOES want a relationship and that means interaction constantly with the mother? Will you be able to trust them to have interaction that does NOT involve you? I am worried about you and I don't mean to upset you. I just want you to be able to find peace and I don't think finding out the DNA is really the answer to what is going on with your life right now. I think there is more going on and maybe you don't even know it right now. I do wish you the best. Link to post Share on other sites
Author SidLyon Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Thanks to all posters - I understand where you're coming from. S Link to post Share on other sites
Author SidLyon Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 I will be amazed if this works as this thread was started by me more than 2 years ago. Anyway this issue has not gone away. My H consulted a lawyer who is an expert in the field. The lawyer has drafted a very sensitive and "nice" letter to the OW (and mother of the child, now 8 years old) requesting a paternity test. It will be sent today. We will see what comes of it... Link to post Share on other sites
PhoenixRise Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 SidLyon I hope for your sake and for the sake of everyone involved (especially the child) that this situation can finally be resolved with complete clarity. Link to post Share on other sites
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