Seems like a double standard

[herenow]

Taylor,

 

Unless you live with the BS and the cheating spouse you have no idea how much the BS blames the CS. I know in my case, I blamed my H 100% for the pain he caused me. He took 100% of the blame. The OW became irrelevant once we decided to work on our marriage. She was no longer part of the equation. Unfortunately, she wasn't able to understand that. I never felt the need to forgive her because I never met her. She isn't part of my life and I don't feel I owe her anything. Just like she didn't feel like she owed me anything. No double standard, just a simple case of equal treatment.

 

The double standard here. IMO, is from the OW. Some OW claim that the BW should blame the MM because he is the one that broke the vows (I agree). They say that the OW didn't make any promises to the BW, so they aren't breaking any promises.

 

So, if the OW isn't to blame for the MM cheating, how is it reasonable for the OW to expect any kind of forgiveness from the BW? It makes no sense. You can't have it both ways. If an OW wants forgiveness, they have to accept the blame. Otherwise, what is it exactly that the OW wants to be forgiven for?

[taylor]

One of the assumptions demonstrated on this thread is that when reconciliation happens, it includes forgiveness...sometimes it does not. It just means they have decided to move forward in whatever capacity they chose.

 

Then it's not true reconciliation. Maybe it's just toleration...or resignation.

[herenow]

One of the assumptions demonstrated on this thread is that when reconciliation happens, it includes forgiveness...sometimes it does not. It just means they have decided to move forward in whatever capacity they chose.

 

And at that point the OW is usually out of the picture. I don't understand why an OW would care about being forgiven by a BW. It boggles my mind that they would expect forgiveness without having to accept the blame.

 

If an OW says that she is to blame for the affair and the pain that has been inflicted on the BW, then I would say it's fair for her to ask for forgiveness. But, why would she care so much about being forgiven by the BW in the first place? I don't care what the OW thinks about me at all. All I are about is my H and his recovery.

[Gamine]

A psychologist was quoted as saying that while working in prisons with inmates learned that approximately 75% of those incarcerated for murder were there because they killed as a crime of passion.

 

And yet, we look at one another on the different boards (OW/OM; BS, WS) and wonder why there is so much static. The rage can be, for some, a volatile and dangerous place.

 

Infidelity has serious outcomes. We hear about murder/suicides, murdering the spouse and the AP, revenge affairs, emotional pain that endures for years, and those who read about all of this horror and swear to never marry. There is an enormous amount of collateral damage in the wake of affairs. The least worthy in the hierarchy of pain is that of the OW/OM.

 

In my husband's 5 month psychotic adventure dipping his toes into the 'well of infidelity' he was emailing and talking with a woman who was single. I had no anger towards her whatsoever. Still don't. My anger with this woman was towards him only.

 

The other two were 1) MOW who he slept with... ex girlfriend from 16 years ago; 2) MOW ex wife from 17 years ago.

 

I had MAJOR bones to pick with these two and held back absolutely nothing when explaining the facts of life to them. I held both of these women in contempt and perhaps always will. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...

[bentnotbroken]

Then it's not true reconciliation. Maybe it's just toleration...or resignation.

 

 

I agree. It just seems that because the marriage remains intact, the assumption is forgiveness has occurred, it simply isn't always the case. And on the other side of the coin if the marriage doesn't survive, it is assumed that the BS couldn't forgive and let go...also not true.

[herenow]

Taylor,

 

Sorry, I meant to address the moral character thing and I got sidetracked. I was much more critical of the moral character of my H than I was of the OW. Again, I don't know the OW. It was a waste of my time to focus on her and her character. I came her to LS to try and get a better understanding of why a woman would get involved with a MM. More than anything it seemed foreign to me. Why would anyone voluntarily ask for such heartache?

[Owl]

In my husband's 5 month psychotic adventure dipping his toes into the 'well of infidelity' he was emailing and talking with a woman who was single. I had no anger towards her whatsoever. Still don't. My anger with this woman was towards him only.

 

The other two were 1) MOW who he slept with... ex girlfriend from 16 years ago; 2) MOW ex wife from 17 years ago.

 

I had MAJOR bones to pick with these two and held back absolutely nothing when explaining the facts of life to them. I held both of these women in contempt and perhaps always will. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned...

 

Why do you not have any anger towards one, but do against the other two? What's the distinction?

[bentnotbroken]

And at that point the OW is usually out of the picture. I don't understand why an OW would care about being forgiven by a BW. It boggles my mind that they would expect forgiveness without having to accept the blame.

 

If an OW says that she is to blame for the affair and the pain that has been inflicted on the BW, then I would say it's fair for her to ask for forgiveness. But, why would she care so much about being forgiven by the BW in the first place? I don't care what the OW thinks about me at all. All I are about is my H and his recovery.

 

 

I agree with this. You read on here and other boards all the time, the AP saying they didn't cheat, they didn't take any vows, they don't owe the BS anything. If that is truly the sentiment, why would one assume the BS owes the AP forgiveness. Why would an AP care about forgiveness if they didn't do anything. Forgiving the WS, is a choice. Just as forgiving the AP is a choice. I only feel like I need forgiveness when I think I have done something wrong, then I ask for it from the person I have injured. JMO

[Gamine]

Or, there is an assumption that because the marriage continues a reconciliation has taken place. A renegotiation for some, reconciliation for others.

[herenow]

I agree with this. You read on here and other boards all the time, the AP saying they didn't cheat, they didn't take any vows, they don't owe the BS anything. If that is truly the sentiment, why would one assume the BS owes the AP forgiveness. Why would an AP care about forgiveness if they didn't do anything. Forgiving the WS, is a choice. Just as forgiving the AP is a choice. I only feel like I need forgiveness when I think I have done something wrong, then I ask for it from the person I have injured. JMO

 

Exactly, If the MM is to blame for the cheating and the OW hasn't done anything wrong, what is there to forgive?

 

It's like saying: Don't blame me, just forgive me. Now that is a double standard if I ever saw one.

[Gamine]

Exactly, If the MM is to blame for the cheating and the OW hasn't done anything wrong, what is there to forgive?

 

We don't need to take vows in order to owe others thoughtful treatment. Take the 'marriage' issue out of it and examine it in the spectrum of human interaction. A best friend lies and cheats you behind your back with the involvement of another person. Of course the feelings of anger/hurt are strongest to the one you have the relationship with. The other is simply anger.

[2sure]

I learned the hard way that with infidelity, unless there are consequences to the AP there is no recovery , no change, and no real forgiveness. When the BS remains the only victim , the only one who has received consequences of the AP's actions...there is no moving on.

 

Giving your WS consequences is hard but it has to be done to end an affair, to get true remorse, and to make the BS no longer the victim , the only one harmed. But after that point , with consequences, a marriage can recover and forgiveness can be achieved.

 

The thing is - the OW/OM often has no consequences tangible to the BS.

The OW/OM played a silent and invisible part in MY life. Mine. Invited or not. I am a person with or without my husband. OW participated in MY life. I was able to give her Consequences. I forgave all parties involved. Even if she never felt bad, I was satisfied with the consequences.

 

When a BS is not aware of any consequences had, there is no real forgiveness.

[Owl]

I personally tend to take the other track of this.

 

I absolutely did blame OM for his part in the situation. Partially because in a really wierd way I was drug into THEIR relationship. She met him online, gaming. Since her and I often gamed together, there was no way to conceal that they often gamed together too. So, the two of them made a serious effort to establish a friendship between he and I. I never considered him a "close" friend, but to a degree he was one.

 

I wasn't a "non-entity" to him, nor he to I.

 

And he knowingly, intentionally pursued an affair AFTER he became a "friend" to me.

 

And I was absolutely one of the BH's who considered violence against the OM. Contemplated and planned it, as a matter of fact.

 

And then decided that it wasn't worth it...it wouldn't have solved any problems, but created more of them.

 

I didn't opt not to do it out of any compassion for him...it was a calculated decision.

 

But...through the course of recovery, I did try to stop and look at things "through his eyes". I knew he ended up at least as hurt as the rest of us. Ultimately, I did forgive him...but I'll also admit it's a kind of "conditional" forgiveness.

 

I understand what he did, and forgave him for it. But if he were ever to return into my life again...ESPECIALLY if he were to attempt to re-establish a relationship with my wife...all bets are off.

 

I don't hate him for what he did anymore...but I'll never trust him in any fashion again.

[foreal]

Some people see forgiveness as a 'gift'.

 

Others see it as something that must be earned.

 

My H is trying to earn my forgiveness. And maybe he will, maybe he won't...but I am allowing him to try.

 

The MOW (a former friend) has done nothing to try to earn my forgiveness, she has no interest in it. I've known her for 15 years and after sleeping with my husband she takes no responsibility whatsoever for stabbing me in the back, as her friend.

 

Why 'gift' forgiveness to someone who cannot appreciate it? It must be earned to be real, otherwise, it is empty...just my opinion , for my situation.

[taylor]

Taylor,

 

Unless you live with the BS and the cheating spouse you have no idea how much the BS blames the CS. I know in my case, I blamed my H 100% for the pain he caused me. He took 100% of the blame. The OW became irrelevant once we decided to work on our marriage. She was no longer part of the equation. Unfortunately, she wasn't able to understand that. I never felt the need to forgive her because I never met her. She isn't part of my life and I don't feel I owe her anything. Just like she didn't feel like she owed me anything. No double standard, just a simple case of equal treatment.

 

The double standard here. IMO, is from the OW. Some OW claim that the BW should blame the MM because he is the one that broke the vows (I agree). They say that the OW didn't make any promises to the BW, so they aren't breaking any promises.

 

So, if the OW isn't to blame for the MM cheating, how is it reasonable for the OW to expect any kind of forgiveness from the BW? It makes no sense. You can't have it both ways. If an OW wants forgiveness, they have to accept the blame. Otherwise, what is it exactly that the OW wants to be forgiven for?

 

I do live with a BS. I know him very well. He is my husband. After D-day my husband was very quick to forgive me, but continues to harbor hatred for the OM.

 

Like I said in my earlier post, I believe BS who want to recover their marriages know that forgiveness is part of the deal. Otherwise, the marriage limps along with hidden resentment.

 

And, like I said in my earlier post, NO, I do not believe the OW/OM can or should expect any kind of forgiveness from the BS because there is no motivation to do so...there is no relationship here to try to save. The "relationship" between the BS and the OP begins and ends on D-day with the BS saying, "You hurt me, now I hate you." The "relationship" has no past and no future. It becomes static.

 

So, no, it is not reasonable for the OW/OM to expect any kind of forgiveness from the BS, IMO. The "hate" dynamic is justified and static. No need to move beyond that for the OW/OM.

 

The only need I see to move beyond that is if the hatred the BS feels toward the OP is "eating her/him alive"..is totally consuming the BS. Then I feel the BS needs to address this emotion because it is doing the BS more harm than good.

 

But I do not feel any BS ever needs to offer some kind of olive branch to an OW/OM. Never.

 

What would an OM/OW want to be forgiven for? I guess for being selfish..for inadvertantly hurting another human being while trying to make themselves feel good in some way.

 

But I really don't think OM/OW should seek forgiveness from the BS. If they want forgiveness, they need to find it from within. Forgive themselves.

 

The BS owes the OW/OM nothing and should never be put in a position or be burdened with the thought of forgiving an OW/OM.

 

While in my emotional affair, my OM had a live-in girlfriend for awhile. She left him in the midst of our affair. I don't know if she ever knew about me. He said she went back to her ex-boyfriend.

 

I felt some guilt for carrying on with him while she was still living with him. She seemed to really care about him, but he didn't seem to care one bit about her...kept telling everyone at work how he wished he could find a DECENT girlfriend...and kept talking about "when I get rid of her...."

 

I felt bad for her. But I guess not enough to stay away from him.

 

I would never have thought of asking her for forgiveness. I didn't deserve her forgiveness and I never would have sought her out for it.

[taylor]

I agree. It just seems that because the marriage remains intact, the assumption is forgiveness has occurred, it simply isn't always the case. And on the other side of the coin if the marriage doesn't survive, it is assumed that the BS couldn't forgive and let go...also not true.

 

Very good points, BNB. Agree 100%.

[taylor]

Taylor,

 

Sorry, I meant to address the moral character thing and I got sidetracked. I was much more critical of the moral character of my H than I was of the OW. Again, I don't know the OW. It was a waste of my time to focus on her and her character. I came her to LS to try and get a better understanding of why a woman would get involved with a MM. More than anything it seemed foreign to me. Why would anyone voluntarily ask for such heartache?

 

Good for you, herenow, that you were able to put the brunt of the blame where it belonged.

 

I don't know that many people who have been in affairs, aside from my own. But from reading LS there seems to be many BS who aim the brunt of their anger at the OP, rather than at their cheating spouse. They should be referring to their husbands as trashy, low-life whores and pitying them for scavenging for crumbs of time from other women to make themselves feel good about themselves. That's where their focus should be.

 

And that's where I see the double standard.

 

I guess it's easier to dump the anger on a stranger than on someone you love, no matter how badly the person you love hurt you.

 

And again, I think it must be a psychological necessity to see the OP as "the bad guy" so that the BS can actually forgive their cheating spouse.

[2sure]

I never once blamed any OW with the affair. I didnt even think about her much. To say I forgave her is actually an overstatement because I wasnt that mad at her for the affair. I felt as though my personal privacy had been violated by her and I was more offended and insulted than anything else. The consequences to her were almost an effort on my part...but I honestly ultimately felt that I was obliged ...out of respect for myself.

[herenow]

Good for you, herenow, that you were able to put the brunt of the blame where it belonged.

 

I don't know that many people who have been in affairs, aside from my own. But from reading LS there seems to be many BS who aim the brunt of their anger at the OP, rather than at their cheating spouse. They should be referring to their husbands as trashy, low-life whores and pitying them for scavenging for crumbs of time from other women to make themselves feel good about themselves. That's where their focus should be.

 

And that's where I see the double standard.

 

I guess it's easier to dump the anger on a stranger than on someone you love, no matter how badly the person you love hurt you.

 

And again, I think it must be a psychological necessity to see the OP as "the bad guy" so that the BS can actually forgive their cheating spouse.

 

I agree with some of what you have said here and in your previous posts. However I think most of those BW that you speak about do place a great deal of blame on their H's. That;s why I said you don't know if you don't live with them. Just because they come to an anonymous forum and vent anger doesn't mean the MM isn't getting his fair share of the venom.

 

As far as the name calling. Believe me, names came out of my mouth directed at my H that I didn't even know I was capable of saying. And then I kicked him out.

[taylor]

Some people see forgiveness as a 'gift'.

 

Others see it as something that must be earned.

 

My H is trying to earn my forgiveness. And maybe he will, maybe he won't...but I am allowing him to try.

 

The MOW (a former friend) has done nothing to try to earn my forgiveness, she has no interest in it. I've known her for 15 years and after sleeping with my husband she takes no responsibility whatsoever for stabbing me in the back, as her friend.

 

Why 'gift' forgiveness to someone who cannot appreciate it? It must be earned to be real, otherwise, it is empty...just my opinion , for my situation.

 

I think forgiveness can be both a gift and something that can be earned.

 

In ideal cases, a person repents first, and is then forgiven. He demonstrates how truly sorry he is for his bad deed and promises never to do it again because he recognizes the hurt it caused and he realizes how much the behavior goes against his own value system.

 

But I believe there are other cases where people forgive others who hurt them but who do not repent first. I believe this is the highest form of forgiveness. This is the true gift.

[Spark1111]

I never once blamed any OW with the affair. I didnt even think about her much. To say I forgave her is actually an overstatement because I wasnt that mad at her for the affair. I felt as though my personal privacy had been violated by her and I was more offended and insulted than anything else. The consequences to her were almost an effort on my part...but I honestly ultimately felt that I was obliged ...out of respect for myself.

 

2sure, I too wrestled with the thought of consequences. Initially, I PROTECTED her from angry family and friends who wanted to march onto her doorstep in their efforts to PROTECT me from pain. While I appreciated their concern, my instinct told me she was a lonely and vulnerable single mom and I would never do anything to hurt her because she had a child. Leave her be.

 

I would NEVER do anything vengeful to a child, even her child.

 

But there were days I stared at the pain and confusion on my children's faces, and thought "How could she help him to inflict this pain on HIS children?" I also thought, "How could she inflict on me the same pain her xH did, especially when he divorced her to be with his last OW?" I mean, she HAD TO KNOW, better than anyone, what that pain, my pain would be.

 

So maybe we tend to hold women, especially mothers, to a higher standard of morals and ethics than they deserve to be held to. We approach our lives with our own unique perceptions of the way the world "should be."

 

She refused to return my phone calls, so I think she feels safe I will never harm her. But I never wanted to. Just curious to know what she was thinking, justifying, excusing to be able to continue.

 

I get it now, and really don't think of her anymore, except to feel sad for her that she too now has this chapter in her life forever.

 

So is that forgiveness or resignation or pity?

[taylor]

I personally tend to take the other track of this.

 

I absolutely did blame OM for his part in the situation. Partially because in a really wierd way I was drug into THEIR relationship. She met him online, gaming. Since her and I often gamed together, there was no way to conceal that they often gamed together too. So, the two of them made a serious effort to establish a friendship between he and I. I never considered him a "close" friend, but to a degree he was one.

 

I wasn't a "non-entity" to him, nor he to I.

 

And he knowingly, intentionally pursued an affair AFTER he became a "friend" to me.

 

And I was absolutely one of the BH's who considered violence against the OM. Contemplated and planned it, as a matter of fact.

 

And then decided that it wasn't worth it...it wouldn't have solved any problems, but created more of them.

 

I didn't opt not to do it out of any compassion for him...it was a calculated decision.

 

But...through the course of recovery, I did try to stop and look at things "through his eyes". I knew he ended up at least as hurt as the rest of us. Ultimately, I did forgive him...but I'll also admit it's a kind of "conditional" forgiveness.

 

I understand what he did, and forgave him for it. But if he were ever to return into my life again...ESPECIALLY if he were to attempt to re-establish a relationship with my wife...all bets are off.

 

I don't hate him for what he did anymore...but I'll never trust him in any fashion again.

 

Yours is a perfect example of what I see as a double standard, Owl.

 

You admit you considered violence against this OM..a stranger..for carrying on with your wife.

 

But why not consider the SAME VIOLENCE against your WIFE...a person who betrayed you, for carrying on with some stranger.

 

Surely, your anger at her had to be greater than your anger at him??!!

 

Surely, her punishment for her betrayal had to be more severe than the OM's punishment?!!

 

Did you forgive the OM because he asked you for it? Or did you forgive him because you knew you had to get rid of bad feelings so that you could heal and move on? Did you do it for him or for you?

[bentnotbroken]

Good for you, herenow, that you were able to put the brunt of the blame where it belonged.

 

I don't know that many people who have been in affairs, aside from my own. But from reading LS there seems to be many BS who aim the brunt of their anger at the OP, rather than at their cheating spouse. They should be referring to their husbands as trashy, low-life whores and pitying them for scavenging for crumbs of time from other women to make themselves feel good about themselves. That's where their focus should be.

 

And that's where I see the double standard.

 

I guess it's easier to dump the anger on a stranger than on someone you love, no matter how badly the person you love hurt you.

 

And again, I think it must be a psychological necessity to see the OP as "the bad guy" so that the BS can actually forgive their cheating spouse.

 

 

This was indeed my opinion of Mr. Messy. I felt as if he had pulled away from the standards of which he was raised and that we base our lives on. When I wouldn't do the things that I believed were against God(not sexual or even marital)he looked for someone who had no problem doing that. He once told me, she let him be himself. I am sure she did. She let him be the least he could be without expectation of being a better husband, father or person. I don't know how to be anything other than who I am. And apparently he no longer wanted to strive for anything other than monetary gain and a good time at any cost. Not my lifestyle or one I want to pursue.

 

His actions made me view him as all the things you listed and more. And somewhere in his head and heart, he knew it too or he and OW wouldn't have lied to so many to do the things they did. They wouldn't have had to have a network of people just like themselves, doing the same thing to their spouses to cover, create lies and to tell each other how much they deserved to be happy because life is just too short. For me that would be the reason to try to do the right thing at all times, because life is just too short. You may never have time to go back and apologize to all the people you have hurt in the quest for personal happiness. I don't want to being laying on my death bed thinking, what I wish I hadn't done to someone.

 

I once told Mr. Messy how much I pitied him and the OW. And as angry as I was at her, I really did pity her because of the double standard of how she would be viewed. I knew that Mr. Messy would get a tisk tisk and maybe a few disgusted looks, but I knew as a woman, she was going to be held more accountable by society in general. Men are expected to behave in animalistic ways traditionally. Women on the other hand have been held to a much higher standard for doing the exact same things. I knew she would be lambasted for what she did. Unfairly in that I knew he was the one who pursued.

 

 

All of those feelings of pity made Mr. Messy...well messy:rolleyes:. He didn't want pity. He didn't want me to be ashamed for him. He felt as if that was a betrayal for me to feel like he had done something so bad to be pitied for him. He said it meant I had no respect for him...he was right, I don't. I knew my life was going to get better and better, I didn't see his as improving because he abandoned the things that make respect hard to give to him. As far as the OW, her actions after the A changed my opinion of feeling any pity for her. She chose her path and is content with it or she would change it. If what you are doing in life aren't getting you the results you want, maybe one should think about changing what you are doing. You can do the same thing over and over again and expect to get a different result. It just doesn't work that way.

[Owl]

Yours is a perfect example of what I see as a double standard, Owl.

 

You admit you considered violence against this OM..a stranger..for carrying on with your wife.

 

But why not consider the SAME VIOLENCE against your WIFE...a person who betrayed you, for carrying on with some stranger.

 

Surely, your anger at her had to be greater than your anger at him??!!

 

Surely, her punishment for her betrayal had to be more severe than the OM's punishment?!!

 

Did you forgive the OM because he asked you for it? Or did you forgive him because you knew you had to get rid of bad feelings so that you could heal and move on? Did you do it for him or for you?

 

Well you can consider it a "double standard" if you want to. I never considered violence against my wife because she was my wife, and because she was a woman. If you want the REAL double standard, there it is...I don't do physical violence against a woman unless she poses a true physical threat to me...my wife doesn't/couldn't, unless she had a weapon and fully intended to use it.

 

OM doesn't fall into that category. He was an ex-Marine, potentially half again my size, and theoretically capable of "taking care of himself".

 

Ergo...double standard, as he's a "fair target" per our society's values, whereas a woman is not.

 

I forgave him because I could understand his "side" of things...I knew he got "hurt" just as the rest of us did. I didn't forgive him "for him"...or even "for me". I did so because it made sense to do so.

 

And as long as he does nothing to create strife in my or my wife's lives again, I wish him a long and happy life.

 

Both he and my wife created the situation we ended up dealing with. The two of them jointly caused all the pain that all three of us went through. Through the course of all of this...I ended up blaming both, and forgiving both. So on the "forgiveness" front, no double standards. On the "considering violence" front, there were double standards, but not so much around "roles" as "genders".

[bentnotbroken]

This was indeed my opinion of Mr. Messy. I felt as if he had pulled away from the standards of which he was raised and that we base our lives on. When I wouldn't do the things that I believed were against God(not sexual or even marital)he looked for someone who had no problem doing that. He once told me, she let him be himself. I am sure she did. She let him be the least he could be without expectation of being a better husband, father or person. I don't know how to be anything other than who I am. And apparently he no longer wanted to strive for anything other than monetary gain and a good time at any cost. Not my lifestyle or one I want to pursue.

 

His actions made me view him as all the things you listed and more. And somewhere in his head and heart, he knew it too or he and OW wouldn't have lied to so many to do the things they did. They wouldn't have had to have a network of people just like themselves, doing the same thing to their spouses to cover, create lies and to tell each other how much they deserved to be happy because life is just too short. For me that would be the reason to try to do the right thing at all times, because life is just too short. You may never have time to go back and apologize to all the people you have hurt in the quest for personal happiness. I don't want to being laying on my death bed thinking, what I wish I hadn't done to someone.

 

I once told Mr. Messy how much I pitied him and the OW. And as angry as I was at her, I really did pity her because of the double standard of how she would be viewed. I knew that Mr. Messy would get a tisk tisk and maybe a few disgusted looks, but I knew as a woman, she was going to be held more accountable by society in general. Men are expected to behave in animalistic ways traditionally. Women on the other hand have been held to a much higher standard for doing the exact same things. I knew she would be lambasted for what she did. Unfairly in that I knew he was the one who pursued.

 

 

All of those feelings of pity made Mr. Messy...well messy:rolleyes:. He didn't want pity. He didn't want me to be ashamed for him. He felt as if that was a betrayal for me to feel like he had done something so bad to be pitied for him. He said it meant I had no respect for him...he was right, I don't. I knew my life was going to get better and better, I didn't see his as improving because he abandoned the things that make respect hard to give to him. As far as the OW, her actions after the A changed my opinion of feeling any pity for her. She chose her path and is content with it or she would change it. If what you are doing in life aren't getting you the results you want, maybe one should think about changing what you are doing. You can do the same thing over and over again and expect to get a different result. It just doesn't work that way.

 

 

Tried to edit, you guys are too fast:p You can't do the same thing over and over again and expect to get a different result.