Can a bisexual be in the ministry?

[dave200]

Can a bisexual man or woman be a pastor or bishop or priest? Why or why not? I think they can. I think it's ok.

 

Bisexuals & homosexuals can't help the way they are. They are attracted to the same sex. That's who they are. Why should they change?

 

There's not a single Christian out there who can give me a solid practical reason why gays need to change apart from religious reasons & their narrow minded interpretation of the Bible.

 

There is no cure for homosexuality. There is also no cure for heterosexuality. The chances of a man getting cured of his attraction for a woman is less than 0.000000001%. The same goes for gay people.

 

Is attraction really a choice?

[Trialbyfire]

Is attraction really a choice?

You can refuse to act on attraction but you can't reroute it or create attraction from nothing, regardless of what self-help books try to sell you.

[quankanne]

yep. And when you really think about it, ALL of mankind is asked to refrain from sin, not just gays or bis or straights: Everyone who isn't married.

 

so it's not singling out someone who has a homosexual attraction and calling them a sinner ...

[159753]

Can a bisexual man or woman be a pastor or bishop or priest? Why or why not? I think they can. I think it's ok.

 

No, because religion Christianity in this case has rules and one of them unfortunately excludes homosexuals.

Bisexuals & homosexuals can't help the way they are. They are attracted to the same sex. That's who they are. Why should they change?

You should not change for the sake of other, just make your own journey and do what you feel is right.

There's not a single Christian out there who can give me a solid practical reason why gays need to change apart from religious reasons & their narrow minded interpretation of the Bible.

If you're looking for practical then perhaps because it goes against their beliefs.

There is no cure for homosexuality. There is also no cure for heterosexuality. The chances of a man getting cured of his attraction for a woman is less than 0.000000001%. The same goes for gay people.

not sure about the percentage but you're right there is no cure yet.

Is attraction really a choice?

well it depends a bit on where on the gay to straight scale you stand.. is not black and white .. but ultimately i don't think its a choice.

[D-Lish]

No, because religion Christianity in this case has rules and one of them unfortunately excludes homosexuals.

 

Depends on the sect actually. The Bible is open to interpretation.

Unitarians welcome any and all with open arms. Certain congregations of any sect will have different rules.

[Eve]

Can a bisexual man or woman be a pastor or bishop or priest? Why or why not? I think they can. I think it's ok.

 

Bisexuals & homosexuals can't help the way they are. They are attracted to the same sex. That's who they are. Why should they change?

 

There's not a single Christian out there who can give me a solid practical reason why gays need to change apart from religious reasons & their narrow minded interpretation of the Bible.

 

There is no cure for homosexuality. There is also no cure for heterosexuality. The chances of a man getting cured of his attraction for a woman is less than 0.000000001%. The same goes for gay people.

 

Is attraction really a choice?

 

I cannot really share your interest here entirely because I am not gay and know of the friction which exists Scripturally. I can only offer a parallel. I do know that many people think it is ok to be racist because of their religious beliefs and yet the black Church is still going strong. Knowing this and how things have worked out, I would say that if a person is gay and feels that they are being called by Our Lord that they should start their own Church or something, much the same as people of colour, rather than waste time trying to change peoples minds. Maybe over time things will change?

 

At the end of the day I would not wait for any man or woman to call me a Christian.

 

So no, I dont think that gay people should be Bishops etc within an environment that does not (literally) accept them until they have established their own way as being needed/valid.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[Moose]

Can a bisexual man or woman be a pastor or bishop or priest? Why or why not? I think they can. I think it's ok.

Yes. I belief they can. As long as they aren't practicing bisexualism, and are actively in the word of God.

 

The Holy Spirit is extremely instrumental in helping all sinners, (Christians) in keeping us away from our sin, as well as repenting for that sin. The burden of guilt when we, "backslide" overcomes our desire to act as long as we are in His Word, and His Word is in us.....

 

I'm an aloholic. Yes, I agree this is a disease. I still drink a couple/few beers on a hot or stressful day, but sometimes, I drink WAY too much I do I feel very guilty simply because a man of God shouldn't be given in to too much "wine". (alcohol, or mind alterering drugs).

 

Should this exclude me from furthing the Kingdom? I think not. All of us are guilty, even the most educated in Scripture will sin without knowing he/she is.

 

I still desire alcohol. And I'm sure a man called by God who is bi to lead a flock would still desire that lifestyle. To hold this person back to further God's Kindgom as long as it is according to His Word would, (in my mind) be a sin in itself.

[wuggle]

The Holy Spirit is extremely instrumental in helping all sinners, (Christians) in keeping us away from our sin, as well as repenting for that sin. The burden of guilt when we, "backslide" overcomes our desire to act as long as we are in His Word, and His Word is in us.....

 

Maybe the question shouldn't be can they but why the hell would they want to be working for any religious sect\cult that automatically brandishes them as sinners for something they probably have no choice over ?? IMO it's a bit like a black man asking if they could work for the KKK.

 

I'm an aloholic. Yes, I agree this is a disease. I still drink a couple/few beers on a hot or stressful day, but sometimes, I drink WAY too much I do I feel very guilty simply because a man of God shouldn't be given in to too much "wine". (alcohol, or mind alterering drugs).

 

Why should a 'man of god' not drink ? I didn't know it was classed as a sin to drink ? In many other religions around the world , the imbibing of mind altering substances is seen as a direct route to the knowing of god. I wasn't aware that christianity had an issue with alchohol ? (gays yes, but not alchohol)

 

All of us are guilty

 

I'm not. and I thank you not to say I am. You have no idea of my life so how can you make a sweeping generalisation like this ? that's not a very 'moderated' opinion.

[dobler33]

the church where i sing is classified as methodist, but accepts people of all faiths and even atheists (like me!). it has LGBTQ pastors as well as straight. they read the bible, as well as the bhagavad gita, the qu'ran, the torah, and richard dawkins. they are first on the frontlines of the gay civil rights movement. and they do more good works in the community and all over the world than any non-mega church i have ever heard of. they serve 3 meals a day to the homeless population of the city 365 days a year. they run free medical and mental health clinics. they run addiction recovery centers and groups. they have vocational educational programs and college scholarships for kids who would otherwise have ended up in gangs. they've built a number of low- and no-cost housing to help people off the street. they have job guidance counseling programs to help people who might never have been employed before get jobs. in the eighties during the height of the crack epidemic the founder led marches through the worst areas, bringing food, medical supplies and bedding to flophouses, calling up to the inhabitants with a bullhorn, calling "come down, here is love, here is help".

 

they do all this because they have taken the message of christ at its face value: unconditional love, no matter what, no matter who. the founder of the church and his wife (who are going to be recognized for lifetime civil rights work in november in a ceremony hosted by dr. maya angelou) believe in the christian god and jesus, call themselves christians and are devoutly religious. to them god and jesus mean unconditional love, not conditional prejudice. in a recent service, speaking out against anti-marriage freedom legislation, the founder said, "First of all, it don't say anything about same-sex marriage in the Bible. And if it does, then you need to CHANGE THE BIBLE. It is not a static document and shouldn't be followed without critical thought and reason." this from a man who has given his life to the work of his christian god, and who has saved more lives than most men living today.

 

so no, i do not see any reason why people of any gender or sexual orientation should be kept from positions of importance within the church. at the church i'm describing there are pastors from every experiential direction, and it sure ain't hurt its ability to do the work of the lord.

[Moose]

Maybe the question shouldn't be can they but why the hell would they want to be working for any religious sect\cult that automatically brandishes them as sinners for something they probably have no choice over ?? IMO it's a bit like a black man asking if they could work for the KKK.

According to Christianity, noone is without sin, no not one.

Why should a 'man of god' not drink ? I didn't know it was classed as a sin to drink ? In many other religions around the world , the imbibing of mind altering substances is seen as a direct route to the knowing of god. I wasn't aware that christianity had an issue with alchohol ? (gays yes, but not alchohol)

I never said it wasn't ok to drink. The Scriptures say a man shouldn't be given INTO too much drink. I'm guilty of it. I still feel led to expand His Kingdom and I'll keep doing so as well as I can.

I'm not. and I thank you not to say I am. You have no idea of my life so how can you make a sweeping generalisation like this ? that's not a very 'moderated' opinion.

If you believe you are spotless in sin, so beit. I was generally speaking of Christianity since the original post is asking about a "Bishop" or "Priest".

 

A Bishop or Priest would've ernerstly studied God's Word which does speak about what they can, or couldn't do, or what they should do, or shouldn't do to be devinely given that position.

 

1. If they continue in said sin, they most likely won't be given that position.

 

2. If they accept the position while being active in their sin, that's God's job to be final Judge.

 

THIS is accorging to the faith the OP is referring to.

 

Have a good night.

[quankanne]

there's also the whole role model thing: If you, as a Christian, believe in Jesus' salvation and understand the whole role of repentance, you choose to not indulge in that sin as you strive to imitate Christ.

 

getting up there in front of your parish, knowing that you give into sin willingly, and you know that everyone else knows about it, you're making a mockery of yourself.

 

it's one thing to be someone who understands they've got a penchant for a certain behavior (drug use, prostitution, homosexual practices, adultery) and another to dally in that kind of behavior because they refuse to refrain from it.

[dobler33]

there's also the whole role model thing: If you, as a Christian, believe in Jesus' salvation and understand the whole role of repentance, you choose to not indulge in that sin as you strive to imitate Christ.

 

getting up there in front of your parish, knowing that you give into sin willingly, and you know that everyone else knows about it, you're making a mockery of yourself.

 

it's one thing to be someone who understands they've got a penchant for a certain behavior (drug use, prostitution, homosexual practices, adultery) and another to dally in that kind of behavior because they refuse to refrain from it.

 

 

placing homosexuality in a list with drug use, prostitution and adultery is where the problem lies. again, i give the example of the church where i sing, which makes no such connection, and they do more "christian works" than most state social service departments.

[Moose]

placing homosexuality in a list with drug use, prostitution and adultery is where the problem lies. again, i give the example of the church where i sing, which makes no such connection, and they do more "christian works" than most state social service departments.

I can see where you're coming from.

 

What if I described what you listed as, "choices"?

 

I choose to do my best to refrain from my sin, but I simply can't help it, I'll always be a sinner. I choose to take my sin when I'm guilty of it to the Lord as a Christian, and I get help from the Holy Spirit to hold me to my paricular faith and to ultimately rid myself of acting on it. (God is still working on me)

[dobler33]

I can see where you're coming from.

 

What if I described what you listed as, "choices"?

 

I choose to do my best to refrain from my sin, but I simply can't help it, I'll always be a sinner. I choose to take my sin when I'm guilty of it to the Lord as a Christian, and I get help from the Holy Spirit to hold me to my paricular faith and to ultimately rid myself of acting on it. (God is still working on me)

 

thanks for your willingness to talk! i think where i get upset is that i don't feel that homosexuality is either a choice or a sin. therefore "acting" on homosexuality shouldn't be placed in the same category as "acting" on a desire to abuse substances.

 

btw, good luck with your sobriety.

[Moose]

thanks for your willingness to talk! i think where i get upset is that i don't feel that homosexuality is either a choice or a sin. therefore "acting" on homosexuality shouldn't be placed in the same category as "acting" on a desire to abuse substances.

 

btw, good luck with your sobriety.

Thanks a bunch! Means a lot...

 

I have a question if you don't mind. Would, or would you not consider homosexuality as a disease? (just wondering).....

[dobler33]

Thanks a bunch! Means a lot...

 

I have a question if you don't mind. Would, or would you not consider homosexuality as a disease? (just wondering).....

 

 

not even a little. and i am a mental health professional.

[Moose]

not even a little. and i am a mental health professional.

How about a condition?

 

Or a decision?

 

Again, I'm just curious how you would classify homosexuality, or bi-sexualith in relation to say alcoholism?

 

Thanks for your responses!

[quankanne]

acting on sexual urges – whatever one's orientation – is a sin if it's outside marriage, according to the Bible. Which is why I include it with the others in the list.

 

a person DOES have the choice to abstain from those behaviors.

[dobler33]

How about a condition?

 

Or a decision?

 

Again, I'm just curious how you would classify homosexuality, or bi-sexualith in relation to say alcoholism?

 

Thanks for your responses!

 

you're welcome, and let me say that this is one of the most civil conversations about this very controversial subject i've ever had with a person of faith. thank you for that, moose.

 

i wouldn't actually classify it in relation to alchoholism. no more than i would classify heterosexuality in relation to alchoholism. it is a human state that exists completely organically and does not represent a disorder of any kind. it was removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association in 1983. it is not a disorder.

 

acting on sexual urges – whatever one's orientation – is a sin if it's outside marriage, according to the Bible. Which is why I include it with the others in the list.

 

a person DOES have the choice to abstain from those behaviors.

 

i respect your beliefs, but mine are different. i don't believe that sex outside of marriage is a sin, and a lot of Christians i know don't either. it seems to be a matter of interpretation among varying sects of Christianity.

 

i just got home from choir practice at church, and as far as i know there are about 4 straight men in the entire tenor and bass sections of our 100-person ensemble. our (straight male) founder and pastor is very excited about giving a sermon on the sunday of the gay pride parade, in which the church will have a giant wedding cake float, and the pastor will be performing marriages all along the parade route. once again proving that homosexuality and christianity are only as mutually exclusive as one decides to make them.

[Eve]

the church where i sing is classified as methodist, but accepts people of all faiths and even atheists (like me!). it has LGBTQ pastors as well as straight. they read the bible, as well as the bhagavad gita, the qu'ran, the torah, and richard dawkins.

 

What is the name of this Church again? Are you sure that they are Methodists? They sound more Universalist than Methodist. Any info would be appreciated.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[NoIDidn't]

there's also the whole role model thing: If you, as a Christian, believe in Jesus' salvation and understand the whole role of repentance, you choose to not indulge in that sin as you strive to imitate Christ.

 

getting up there in front of your parish, knowing that you give into sin willingly, and you know that everyone else knows about it, you're making a mockery of yourself.

 

it's one thing to be someone who understands they've got a penchant for a certain behavior (drug use, prostitution, homosexual practices, adultery) and another to dally in that kind of behavior because they refuse to refrain from it.

 

I agree.

 

placing homosexuality in a list with drug use, prostitution and adultery is where the problem lies. again, i give the example of the church where i sing, which makes no such connection, and they do more "christian works" than most state social service departments.

 

I think you are missing the point. It isn't about "homosexuality". Its about fornication. Its the fact that it is outside of a marriage sex. The Bible preaches against sex outside of marriage. And the Christians that indulge in fornication are not doing anyone any favors on picking and choosing what they believe. They might not want to honor this, but it doesn't change the Bible's very clear teaching on it.

 

Honestly, what is the point of announcing one's sexual bent if they are celibate? I have no problem with a gay priest, so long as he's not a "practicing" homosexual. If he is, he's actively living against what he preaches and is thus ineffective.

 

You can't preach to others about sin when you are actively sinning.

[dobler33]

What is the name of this Church again? Are you sure that they are Methodists? They sound more Universalist than Methodist. Any info would be appreciated.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

 

i'd been holding back the name for privacy purposes, but i guess it can't hurt.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glide_Memorial_Church

 

http://www.glide.org/RevWilliams.aspx

 

http://www.glide.org/RevGuest.aspx

 

http://www.glide.org/KarenOliveto.aspx

 

http://www.glide.org/JaniceMirikitani.aspx

[dobler33]

I agree.

 

 

 

I think you are missing the point. It isn't about "homosexuality". Its about fornication. Its the fact that it is outside of a marriage sex. The Bible preaches against sex outside of marriage. And the Christians that indulge in fornication are not doing anyone any favors on picking and choosing what they believe. They might not want to honor this, but it doesn't change the Bible's very clear teaching on it.

 

Honestly, what is the point of announcing one's sexual bent if they are celibate? I have no problem with a gay priest, so long as he's not a "practicing" homosexual. If he is, he's actively living against what he preaches and is thus ineffective.

 

You can't preach to others about sin when you are actively sinning.

 

again, i really do respect the beliefs of others even when i'm challenging them. but do you adhere to the following?

 

If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately. Deuteronomy 22:13-21

If a married person has sex with someone else’s husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death. Deuteronomy 22:22

Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced. Mark 10:1-12

The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman’s period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.Leviticus 18:19

If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir. Mark 12:18-27

If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy’s genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

 

picking and chosing seems to be the only way to be a christian in this day and age. many commandments are outdated and no longer applicable in a society that has changed and continues to change. and if that is the case, then the bible is not a static document but a fluid one, subject to interpretation, subject to argument, subject to re-invention. and if THAT is the case, then the commandments against "fornication" (hetero or homo) are due some consideration in this regard.

[Eve]

Thanks Dobler for the links. They will be a point to muse upon in the real world.

 

In short, regarding the OT stuff. I thought that only Jewish people follow all those old school laws because they dont believe in Christ? Christians dont have to follow them because they believe that Christ died for them.

 

SO, the risen Christ is the one who I know about ..

 

I have been thinking about why it is that I just follow the ten commandments. I know that the Laws are now written on my heart because I received the Holy Spirit - but I am not so sure of the emphasis on Moses and the 10 commandments bit. Aside form the fact that they make sense there must be a particular Scriptural emphasis.

 

Hence I dont get the liberal stance... Seems more about people pleasing than anything else.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

[dobler33]

Thanks Dobler for the links. They will be a point to muse upon in the real world.

 

In short, regarding the OT stuff. I thought that only Jewish people follow all those old school laws because they dont believe in Christ? Christians dont have to follow them because they believe that Christ died for them.

 

SO, the risen Christ is the one who I know about ..

 

I have been thinking about why it is that I just follow the ten commandments. I know that the Laws are now written on my heart because I received the Holy Spirit - but I am not so sure of the emphasis on Moses and the 10 commandments bit. Aside form the fact that they make sense there must be a particular Scriptural emphasis.

 

Hence I dont get the liberal stance... Seems more about people pleasing than anything else.

 

Take care,

Eve xx

 

two of those quotes are from mark, which is a NT book. i'm sure if i put my mind to it i'd find some more that we no longer uphold, because they are outdated and impossible to honor. check out a.j. jacob's book about the year he tried to follow as many biblical imperatives as he could, OT and NT. http://www.ajjacobs.com/books/yolb.asp he found some of them QUITE difficult.