Just Hear Me Out....

[LisaUk]

Ha...it is like we're living the same bad dream. I only woke up at 4 am, then 630...about 45 minutes before my alarm.

 

I made a doctor's appointment, because I can't be sleeping with the aid of alcohol (how I've gotten sleep the last week or so). Maybe you should look into that, too?

 

It's insomnia, I had it to at first, can't get to sleep then wake every couple of hours, can't sleep again etc. It pans out, I'm at the 4 months mark, 4 weeks total NC, still tricky getting to sleep, but not waking in the night now. I didn't take any meds and I don't drink alchol, so it really will pan out by itself if you give it time.

[LisaUk]

No worries, MrmayI.

 

I'm a simple guy, and I put things into simple contexts.

 

Here's how I see your situation at the moment.

 

Your wife moved out. For whatever reason. In order to fix the marriage, she needs to move back in. In order for her to move back in, you have to make living on her own more painful/less comfortable than living at home with you.

 

She needs to suffer some kind of consequence for where she's at today, or she's not going to have any reason to "come home". She's got to have a reason to come home.

 

And, you need to make the "come home" seem more attractive to her than it is today. You do that by plan A...start meeting her emotional needs, start making positive changes in yourself that makes you more attractive to her. And, you make living outside "on her own" something that's not fun...you do that by not supporting her issue, by not helping her financially (or any other way) in living on her own. And once you get your evidence of an affair...you remove her support base for that...you talk with family and friends and ask them NOT to support her choice to interact with OM.

 

I know Lisa will say this is "too simple" ( ), but the bottom line is this is what it will take to try to make a change in this situation.

 

I do agree OWL! I just meant before that a relationship break down can't be explained totally interms of social exchange theroy, but it has it's place in it and it's repair, but lets not get into that again! LOL

[MrMayI]

a friend of mine, who's also a counselor, told me today that jealousy WILL drive someone to someone else. he compared it to a little man on your shoulder, who says "it's okay. it's okay to accuse. it's what's best for you. for us. go ahead. dig a little deeper. it's okay to do that." all the while he's just trying to get you to your low point.

 

i thought about that for a while. had i let the suspected EA last year lie where it should've, i most likely wouldn't be going through this today. i did listen to that inner voice. i really didn't see anything else to cause alarm. yet, i kept questioning, essentially accusing. i kept digging.

[lupa]

a friend of mine, who's also a counselor, told me today that jealousy WILL drive someone to someone else. he compared it to a little man on your shoulder, who says "it's okay. it's okay to accuse. it's what's best for you. for us. go ahead. dig a little deeper. it's okay to do that." all the while he's just trying to get you to your low point.

 

i thought about that for a while. had i let the suspected EA last year lie where it should've, i most likely wouldn't be going through this today. i did listen to that inner voice. i really didn't see anything else to cause alarm. yet, i kept questioning, essentially accusing. i kept digging.

Don't second guess yourself too much, unless it is in terms of

 

"I was jealous when I shouldn't have been, so now I'm going to try to not be jealous any more."

 

I have been second guessing my actions, but a better way to put it was

 

"I was incapable of empathy before, because I didn't understand it. Now I'm going to try to feel other people's pain when they talk about it, so that I can listen and offer support."

 

 

...know that you were jealous, but don't think that changing your jealousy at the time would have prevented this.

 

(I'm all about CS Lewis today, as I read the Chronicles of Narnia when I was young, and there were good lessons in there) --

 

In one of CS Lewis' Narnia books, somewhere along the way one of the characters asks Aslan (the Lion guy) would things have been different if they had done something else. The response is like "You are only to know what was and what will be, not what could have been."

 

It is a simple lesson, because there is no what could have been...there are too many factors that go into what happened to say something like, "Had I not been jealous, I wouldn't be here today." Maybe, had you not been jealous, you wouldn't have had one argument and instead you went on a walk and got hit by a bus.

 

It would be that arbitrary. Maybe I missed a million opportunities to fix this for me, but seriously, I can tell you that I'm alive, have my health, a portion of my sanity, a job, friends, and family. Everything is so fleeting that something could have changed in the blink of an eye...I don't actually want to know what could have been.

 

It could have been WAY worse.

 

So...that's our lesson for the day, kiddies. Check in tomorrow, and Mr Lupa will tell you the story of "The Puppy Who Lost His Way."

[MrMayI]

"The Puppy Who Lost His Way."

 

KNIBB HIGH FOOTBALL RULES!!!!

 

thanks for that long post, lupa. i know i can't dwell on what could've been. i'm focusing on today for now. i feel that's all i can do. i don't know the future, so i just go with what i have.

[phineas]

My 2nd guessing has reached the point where I should of shown her the door the second I suspected something was up.

 

I almost did because I was 2nd guessing myself back them.

 

Guess I was right all along.

I hope to heck I'm never right about something like this again.

[MrMayI]

My 2nd guessing has reached the point where I should of shown her the door the second I suspected something was up.

 

I almost did because I was 2nd guessing myself back them.

 

Guess I was right all along.

I hope to heck I'm never right about something like this again.

 

i feel the same way phineas. i can say what i think "could have happened", but i will never know that for sure. so, i don't want to think about the "could haves".

the effects of an EA are devastating, but i'm learning to flip my anger switch, because it alleviates me of just about any wrongdoing i feel i may have done. i don't see the real point in sitting back evaluating and reevaluating myself, when i know i just tried to be a good husband, and a protector of my family.

[tojaz]

i feel the same way phineas. i can say what i think "could have happened", but i will never know that for sure. so, i don't want to think about the "could haves".

the effects of an EA are devastating, but i'm learning to flip my anger switch, because it alleviates me of just about any wrongdoing i feel i may have done. don't see the real point in sitting back evaluating and reevaluating myself, when i know i just tried to be a good husband, and a protector of my family.

 

I think he's got it!

[Gunny376]

i feel the same way phineas. i can say what i think "could have happened", but i will never know that for sure. so, i don't want to think about the "could haves".

the effects of an EA are devastating, but I'm learning to flip my anger switch, because it alleviates me of just about any wrongdoing i feel i may have done. i don't see the real point in sitting back evaluating and reevaluating myself, when i know i just tried to be a good husband, and a protector of my family.

 

Thirty years from now your going to look back at who you are now, and think?

 

"Could I have done better? Could I have been a matter spouse?"

 

And the answer is going to be "Yes!" and the reason for that? Is because of all the crap that your currently and that your going to go through.

 

In the past and the present? You were the best spouses that you knew how to be, and for the experience? In the future you will be even better at it. Especially those of you that have came looking for solution and answers at such sights as LoveShack, MarriageBuilders, and DivorceBusting.

 

Those of you that are going to the bookstores and reading books. Those of you that are going to MC and IC, and working on yourselves to become better and stronger ~ to learn from the hard earned and learned lessons that the pain tells you that you need to learn!

 

What most of you simply aren't getting? Its not what you did? Its not what you didn't do?

 

Its simply that most people are not cut out to be in a LTR!

 

They have mental problems, emotional problems, they come from dysfunctional families, they were mentally, emotionally, physically, sexually abused.

 

They simply lack the experience, knowledge, or skill set to make a LTR work with you or anyone else.

 

They're "Drama Queens" (Both male and female) they're narcissistic personalities, they have commitment issues, they lack self confidence, they have trust issues, they've been used and abused they've trust issues.

 

The list is endless,...............................

 

Most if not a lot of what's going on? Is about their own insecurities and issues ~ not you.

 

Why did they leave you? Because they didn't feel they deserved you! They didn't feel they were worthy of you! You were more than they deserved. You were better than they deserved.

 

But their Happy @zz couldn't handle the reality of that ~ and so they tried to turn it in on you!

 

Everything you said was wrong, and everything you didn't say was wrong too! Everything to did was wrong? And everything you didn't do was wrong as well!

 

They (the Cheaters) even re-write the history of the relationship!

 

The reason I cheated? Was because of you! If you had done more of this and less of that? If you had kissed my @ss less I wouldn't have cheated~ If you had kissed my @zz more I wouldn't have cheated on you.

 

You didn't spend enough money on me and buy me enough of this or that!

 

You bought me too much of this and that and was trying to buy my love with money and things!

 

You worked too much ~ you didn't work enough!

 

QUIT BEATING YOURSELF UP!

 

There are pleanty of people just out your front door with Louievile Sluggers hiding in the brushes just waiting for the chance!

[MrMayI]

i think i may need some advice today. not just about living either. i've been doing my best to do that.

 

i talked to my wife momentarily last night, and she pointed out that i have not made any attempt to be in contact with her for days and days. this is true. i've tried to keep bare minimum contact, only when it involves my daughter. i don't know what to do. she wonders how we're going to do anything together if i'm not trying to contact her as well. i feel that i may be squandering the remote chance that is there if i don't start putting forth more effort. i'm not doing much else these days, anyway. all of my friends are married, or the single ones are too far away to just cut and run to visit during the work week. it's getting easier by the day, but what should i do?

[WTFO]

i think i may need some advice today. not just about living either. i've been doing my best to do that.

 

i talked to my wife momentarily last night, and she pointed out that i have not made any attempt to be in contact with her for days and days. this is true. i've tried to keep bare minimum contact, only when it involves my daughter. i don't know what to do. she wonders how we're going to do anything together if i'm not trying to contact her as well. i feel that i may be squandering the remote chance that is there if i don't start putting forth more effort. i'm not doing much else these days, anyway. all of my friends are married, or the single ones are too far away to just cut and run to visit during the work week. it's getting easier by the day, but what should i do?

 

Very well put. When do you stop the NC/LC? Is it when SHE comes to you and wants to talk? Or you feel shes had enough. But,I also read somewhere NC/LC is for YOU!! not her.

[MrMayI]

well, i broke and called her this morning. just a regular chat. i slipped and told her that i miss her. she said she misses me too. she misses just having every day conversations with me, and not discussing "business" right now. that kind of got me, but i maintained my cool. i have yet to try and discuss much with her besides the same old day to day bullsh*t. i'm just at a total loss. almost a month into this thing, and i'm just tired of thinking about it. it seems that if i even hint at making an effort to do anything to help our marriage, i get detoured by her every time. very frustrating.

i'm going back to the minimal contact. i shouldn't have even worried about it.

[LisaUk]

i think i may need some advice today. not just about living either. i've been doing my best to do that.

 

i talked to my wife momentarily last night, and she pointed out that i have not made any attempt to be in contact with her for days and days. this is true. i've tried to keep bare minimum contact, only when it involves my daughter. i don't know what to do. she wonders how we're going to do anything together if i'm not trying to contact her as well. i feel that i may be squandering the remote chance that is there if i don't start putting forth more effort. i'm not doing much else these days, anyway. all of my friends are married, or the single ones are too far away to just cut and run to visit during the work week. it's getting easier by the day, but what should i do?

 

Ok, so it's looking up at this point. Did you not ask why she hasn't contacted you, after all she moved out!

 

Nevermind, it has gone past that now, yes go back to LC, when she mentions it again and she will, just say, "well the thing is I do miss you and our chats but it's not really getting down to resolving our problems is it? I really feel that if we want to make this marriage work, which I do, we should consider MC"

 

Take it from there.

[phineas]

well, i broke and called her this morning. just a regular chat. i slipped and told her that i miss her. she said she misses me too. she misses just having every day conversations with me, and not discussing "business" right now. that kind of got me, but i maintained my cool. i have yet to try and discuss much with her besides the same old day to day bullsh*t. i'm just at a total loss. almost a month into this thing, and i'm just tired of thinking about it. it seems that if i even hint at making an effort to do anything to help our marriage, i get detoured by her every time. very frustrating.

i'm going back to the minimal contact. i shouldn't have even worried about it.

 

My wife was doing the exact same thing. She didn't want to work on the marriage because that meant moving back home & actually spending time with each other.

 

Instead she wanted to see me once or twice a week for a movie or a screw.

 

She was spending all the rest of her free time with her boyfriend.

 

I really think you need to hire a Private Investigator to see what she does when she knows your not around.

 

She left you because of problems in the marriage but then avoids any attempt to work on those problems?

[phineas]

Ok, so it's looking up at this point. Did you not ask why she hasn't contacted you, after all she moved out!

 

Nevermind, it has gone past that now, yes go back to LC, when she mentions it again and she will, just say, "well the thing is I do miss you and our chats but it's not really getting down to resolving our problems is it? I really feel that if we want to make this marriage work, which I do, we should consider MC"

 

Take it from there.

 

I used this on my wife.

She'd say she wanted it to work.

she'd agree it wouldn't work unless we spent more time together.

She'd also agree she was the one limiting out time.

So i'd ask why & she'd go silent then try to change the subject.

[LisaUk]

I used this on my wife.

She'd say she wanted it to work.

she'd agree it wouldn't work unless we spent more time together.

She'd also agree she was the one limiting out time.

So i'd ask why & she'd go silent then try to change the subject.

 

Fair enough. At that point then that's when MayI can decide to drop the bomb?

[MrMayI]

My wife was doing the exact same thing. She didn't want to work on the marriage because that meant moving back home & actually spending time with each other.

 

Instead she wanted to see me once or twice a week for a movie or a screw.

 

She was spending all the rest of her free time with her boyfriend.

 

I really think you need to hire a Private Investigator to see what she does when she knows your not around.

 

She left you because of problems in the marriage but then avoids any attempt to work on those problems?

 

i don't need to hire a p.i. to know what she's doing. i know her work schedule every week, and she spends 9/10ths of her off time with our daughter. it's just disturbing to me she doesn't want to work on things right now. i'll give her credit for sticking to her guns. i really think she's either a) waiting for me to file divorce or b) just not ready mentally to give it another shot.

 

i'm just finding it difficult to be a "friend".

[MrMayI]

i really do miss my wife's friendship terribly. i know if i could just be nice, i could still have it in my life on a regular basis. possibly even speeding up the road to reconciliation (if there is one). she just isn't seeing the severity of where we are today. she thinks because i said if separation was what she wanted, then she could have it without me groveling, that that means we should be able to go on about our lives like we didn't have 5 years of marriage. like we don't have a child who may never know what the joy of being with both parents feels like again. like we weren't building a very nice, stable life for ourselves that now feels totally torn to shreds. i haven't had a tear in my eye in 2 weeks, and today i think the dam's going to burst.

[lupa]

i really do miss my wife's friendship terribly. i know if i could just be nice, i could still have it in my life on a regular basis. possibly even speeding up the road to reconciliation (if there is one). she just isn't seeing the severity of where we are today. she thinks because i said if separation was what she wanted, then she could have it without me groveling, that that means we should be able to go on about our lives like we didn't have 5 years of marriage. like we don't have a child who may never know what the joy of being with both parents feels like again. like we weren't building a very nice, stable life for ourselves that now feels totally torn to shreds. i haven't had a tear in my eye in 2 weeks, and today i think the dam's going to burst.

Find a spot, get by yourself, and just wail, man. Let it out. I've noticed that the longer I hold it in, the worse it feels.

 

Just let go.

 

I think I realized today that mine was done for good, so I had a good cry by myself for like a minute. Afterward the sadness was still there, but the pressure was gone.

 

...it's going to be like this for a while.

[LisaUk]

Find a spot, get by yourself, and just wail, man. Let it out. I've noticed that the longer I hold it in, the worse it feels.

 

Just let go.

 

I think I realized today that mine was done for good, so I had a good cry by myself for like a minute. Afterward the sadness was still there, but the pressure was gone.

 

...it's going to be like this for a while.

 

Yes, i read in one of your posts you cried in the shower, you and me both!

Let it out MayI, you will feel better for it.

[LisaUk]

MayI, I just added you as a contact, if you do the same you can view my profile and pictures if you would like.

[Owl]

i think i may need some advice today. not just about living either. i've been doing my best to do that.

 

i talked to my wife momentarily last night, and she pointed out that i have not made any attempt to be in contact with her for days and days. this is true. i've tried to keep bare minimum contact, only when it involves my daughter. i don't know what to do. she wonders how we're going to do anything together if i'm not trying to contact her as well. i feel that i may be squandering the remote chance that is there if i don't start putting forth more effort. i'm not doing much else these days, anyway. all of my friends are married, or the single ones are too far away to just cut and run to visit during the work week. it's getting easier by the day, but what should i do?

 

Have you explained to her that its not all YOUR job to keep in contact with her?

 

That since she was the one who walked out, SHE should be the one to hold the lion's share of the work to "work on us"?

 

Tell her point blank that if she wants to "work on us"...there's a path to do so.

 

You need to draft your requirements that you think need to be accomplished by her before you can attempt reconciliation with you. Things like:

 

1. Open book honesty.

2. Access to all her email/phone/IM/facebook login and pw accounts.

3. Enroll in marriage counseling.

4. Whatever else you require

 

Don't be afraid to INSIST on what you need from her to give her a chance to reconcile.

 

If she refuses...she's not ready to reconcile, and trying to do so is a waste of time and effort.

 

Don't let her GUILT you like this. She's the one who stepped out, she's the one who needs to fix things.

[MrMayI]

Have you explained to her that its not all YOUR job to keep in contact with her?

 

That since she was the one who walked out, SHE should be the one to hold the lion's share of the work to "work on us"?

 

Tell her point blank that if she wants to "work on us"...there's a path to do so.

 

You need to draft your requirements that you think need to be accomplished by her before you can attempt reconciliation with you. Things like:

 

1. Open book honesty.

2. Access to all her email/phone/IM/facebook login and pw accounts.

3. Enroll in marriage counseling.

4. Whatever else you require

 

Don't be afraid to INSIST on what you need from her to give her a chance to reconcile.

 

If she refuses...she's not ready to reconcile, and trying to do so is a waste of time and effort.

 

Don't let her GUILT you like this. She's the one who stepped out, she's the one who needs to fix things.

 

Owl, thanks again for your input. this is the path i'm working on taking. she's not prepared to discuss reconciliation right now. i'm just going to have to cope with that. honestly, i'm sure i probably am just waiting for the day she either tells me, or i catch her with someone else. for now though, i am going to hold onto my D papers.

 

my post you quoted was actually a little more passive than what i genuinely feel. i told her today that the phone works both ways, and she pointed out that she has called me every day for the most part. i went back and looked in my phone, and she's right. she's tried to call me just about every day. i've gone out of my way to ignore the majority of her contact, though.

 

i'm just going back to minimal contact, and back to myself. this is for the birds.

[MrMayI]

i just couldn't stand anymore today. went by her house and talked to her. told her that i'm offering marriage counseling. she declined, and i told her that's fine, but from here on there will be no talk unless it's concerning our daughter or trying to repair the damage. i told her she may be willing to just let it go, but i will not be satisfied unless i know that i go down swinging with everything i have. i asked her to tell me point blank, no hard feelings, if there's someone else. she said no, and i replied with "that's all well and good. that's 3 times you told me there's no one else. so i can now say with certainty that if i find out there IS someone else, i'm going to beat the p*ss out of whoever it is". i asked her if she wants to just say forget it and divorce, and she said she doesn't know what she wants. i told her the ball has been in her court this entire time, and now i'll just hold onto it for a while. i'm done.

[tojaz]

Sounds like you did what you needed to do. It might just give her a wake up call! I would still let her make the decision, but you stood up and laid your cards on the table. Good for you man, keep us posted.

TOJAZ