Just Hear Me Out....

[dlim]

MrMayI, I now its hard but you need to try and separate your relationship with your daughter and your STBXW as much as possible. When you have kids (I have 2 myself) its impossible to go NC and it makes it even harder to cope with the situation. You think a divorce is going to destroy your daugthers childhood and hurt her emotionally but it won't. I'm not saying u are but don't think this is reason enough to try and make things work, I know the thought of your EX meeting a new man and someone else acting like her father is paralizing. As long as you show your daughter a strong and patient father she will always love you and nobody can ever replace you. Never let her see you fight with her mother NO MATTER WHAT. Kids seem to always side with their mother especially if they live with them and can manipulate the situation. All it will do is make you look like the bad guy and they will start to sympathize with her even though she is the one making the bad decisions. You daugther will be an adult much longer than a child so don't worry when she gets older she will see what really happened and respect the hard choices you are having to make.

[MrMayI]

i'm okay. she and my daughter are two separate entities. i'd never lump them together. been a long day, but i'm safe at a friend's house. had a great dinner, and some locally brewed beer. thanks everyone on here. i wouldn't be as steady as i am if not for you all. we're ALL going to be okay. i love gunny's outlook, but i'm more of chrome barracuda type. f**k what they're doing, or where they're going. i know i'm above this.

[Chrome Barracuda]

i'm okay. she and my daughter are two separate entities. i'd never lump them together. been a long day, but i'm safe at a friend's house. had a great dinner, and some locally brewed beer. thanks everyone on here. i wouldn't be as steady as i am if not for you all. we're ALL going to be okay. i love gunny's outlook, but i'm more of chrome barracuda type. f**k what they're doing, or where they're going. i know i'm above this.

 

LOL thats the spirit!!!

[Gunny376]

Its f*&k, fight or go for your gun time! Its time to pull the pin!

 

There was once a fellow who was the only one in the country catching any fish during the dead of summer?

 

The local game warden wanted to know how and why?

 

Fellow took him out fishing, and they got out in the middle of the lake on the boat. Fellow reached into a wooden box, pulled out a stick of dynamite and threw it into the water?

 

Boom! Fish came floating to the top of the water from the concussion of the dynamite!

 

The game warden went 'ape' "You can't do that! That's against the law!"

 

Fellow reached into the box, grabbed another stick of dynamite, lit it, and threw it into the game wardens lap!

 

"You going run your mouth all day? Or are you going to 'fish?"

 

By delaying doing so? Your just setting yourself and your DD up for a World of Hurt! And in the end by delaying? Your going to find yourself in one Hell of a serious hurt locker.

 

At this point?

 

By serving her the papers, one of several possible scenarios are going to play out.

 

1. She's going to come running back to you faster than you can say "Don't do it!"

 

2. She's going to go through with the divorce. (In which case? She's probably got a 'back-up' man and plan. Which means all you were and are to her was her "back up man and plan to begin with")

 

3. Your going to get divorced and then get back together. (Once she finds out that its a 'tough and cold, cruel world out there!)

 

Either way? Your 'manning up' taking charge of your life, being an "Alpha Male" instead of an 'omega' man.

 

When you get it into your brain housing group to get your head right, reclaim your life, and get your priorities straight? She may? Just may snap out of her cheap s***!

 

You've offered MC, and she's 'waffling' on that?

 

Forget that!

 

Its time to go DefCon 4 and drop the bomb on her little made up fantasy world!

[trippi1432]

MrMayI, I now its hard but you need to try and separate your relationship with your daughter and your STBXW as much as possible. When you have kids (I have 2 myself) its impossible to go NC and it makes it even harder to cope with the situation. You think a divorce is going to destroy your daugthers childhood and hurt her emotionally but it won't.

 

Yes, its does!! I'm sorry, but I joined this board becase divorce hurts. and this totally NC thing is what brings divorce imminent (and men as well as women often do in these situations) . When you stop communicating you bring divorce upon yourself and your children. I was only 12 when my father's infidelities and my mother's "hiding a guy in the closet" was exposed, but children aren't totally oblivious to what adults have going on...and that was the 70's. Get real, even Sponge Bob is pulling his underwear out of his crack today for 7 year olds!! Children are not stupid and they know what is going on. Sorry, but I had to put my 2 cents worth on this one.

[drmaerdepip]

Sorry if this is a repeat if my initial post reappears on this site...

 

I just don't believe that she is conflicted or "doesn't know what she wants".I think she's telling you that because it benefits her, and maybe she is a little bit conflicted, but it's not about whether you are going to be less jealous or not. It's more about whether she should stay married or go and be with the OM. She may also be afraid that if you found out she was having an affair, you would file for divorce anyway. I think she knows that MC will be a waste of time because the problem really isn't you, it's HER and her affair with the OM.She's not going to admit that to you, so she just acts like it's all your fault and there's no point in MC since she knows you won't change, yada yada. She knows that she's really been lying to you, and so sitting in counseling trying to work on things like 'your jealousy' and other issues are pointless to her. She doesn't know what she wants to do because you are a loving husband and good father but the OM does whatever he does for her...if you were really such a ****ty husband it would be a cut and dried issue - and if there was anything to really work on between the two of you, she'd be in MC or doing whatever she needed to do to try to bring the two of you back together. She also wouldn't have left her little girl - but because her OM might be bothered by the fact that she is tied down, she left her little one as well. She's being self-centered and narcissitic thinking only about HER needs and leaving you hanging like you're some love-sick puppy who she can kick over and over and you'll still be there.Would you stay with her and stay married if you knew she had cheated once, or even more than once? If the answer is yes, maybe you should look her in the eyes and tell her how much you love her and value your marriage - and then say very deliberately, "I already know about OM and your affair with him. I want to fix our marriage anyway. I think we can work through this.I have forgiven you, please come home." You're not accusing her of having a PA (in the off-chance that she hasn't yet), because you could say it was just an EA and that's what you meant. I would call her bluff on this, though, and just not answer her directly but just tell her that you'd rather not talk about the details right now, but you KNOW. Tell her she has three days to decide if she wants to move back in and work on the marriage. Tell her that after the three days (or however long you decide) it's over and you will take that to mean that you can date as well.Let her know that after this amount of time you will figure that loving her is a waste of your energy, and you will not care about those feelings for her anymore - you will put it all in the past and move on with your life and find someone else. I say that, because even if you don't - she obviously HAS been using some OM to fill her needs and has not considered that you have this option, as well. I remember my friend going through a similar experience and unbelievably, her ex did not even consider that his actions would in fact, allow her to be free to date and love someone else. He tried to act like he could care less, but a while later came back crying to her that he still loved her and couldn't stand to see his son being raised by another man and he was so sorry, blah blah. By this time, she saw him for the loser that he was and had moved on. He hates himself for what he did and is miserable. She is thriving and doing just fine.

 

This is getting to be so one-sided and it's sad because it's obvious she's lost sight of the fact that you have feelings as well and you and your daughter are hurting! It seems that her concern is only about herself and her own feelings - it's all about her! Why didn't you call HER, why didn't you do this, that and the other thing. I think it's time to shock her out of her self-absorbed bubble and stand up for yourself in a way that reminds her of the fact that you are someone who MAY have been in love with who she used to be, but this new person she has become - um, no...don't think so. I think I have to agree with others on the post (GUNNER esp.) it's "go time".

 

If the divorce is going to happen, it's going to happen. If she doesn't want it to, she'll move back in with you when you serve the papers, and she'll get her behind into MC with you and show some commitment to her marriage vows. If the friendships are innocent, then there should be no problem showing you the text messages and even inviting you to meet the new 'friends' in her life. Whatever needs to be said in a normal friendship can be said during the day - if she's meeting the men at night, then of course that's the reason she needed her own place. Even if she hasn't yet, she's opened up that possibility to cross over from an emotional to a physical relationship,(which was probably ALOT harder when she was living with you), it makes it alot easier and more convenient to hook up when you have your own place. The OM lives with Mom and Dad, so that wouldn't be very comfortable, she lived with you, that doesn't work ethier - so now she's got the perfect set up to meet with the OM. It is grossly obvious that if the EA hasn't turned into a PA yet, she is certainly getting all her ducks in a row so that it can. I think it's absolutely disgusting that she is doing this and stringing you along for the ride. Probably wants to take the OM for a test drive before she completely shuts you out and has no chance to come back if it doesn't work out. There really isn't any other logical explanation to the way she's acting - I mean even if it was about you and your 'jealousy' or whatever else she's accused you of doing, what did your innocent child do to make mommy leave and not fight for her? It just sounds to me that she wants to see what life on the 'other side' feels like but doesn't want to cut all the ties with you 'just in case'. I see the way she is behaving as being more about her needs, her wants, her feelings...and she isn't considering that perhaps you have feelings as well. I think the anger directed at you is also probably something that she is having to do because she was starting to feel something for you again (rubbing your back, pulling you to her for a hug), when she told you to call and you didn't - you weren't allowing her to control you. She used touch to get you back under her control (you said shortly after that you missed her, etc.), once she felt confident again that you weren't slipping away and you still were her 'puppy dog' again, then she can withdraw again and be angry. She's angry because of her guilt. She knows that you're a good man and that you love her, and what she's doing is WRONG. If she rewrites history and villianizes you, then she can bury the guilty feelings and continue on doing the things she's doing with OM. If you stand up for yourself and your daughter and serve her with the papers, make it clear that there are conditions if she decides that she doesn't want to go through with the divorce. Make sure that you stand up for YOU and demand transparency. Let her know that you know now that the accusations of jealousy were a farce to cover up her immoral behaivor. Let her know that you're sorry that she has decided not to honor her marriage vows, but because she can't be trusted to be honest and true to you, because she is conflicted about whether or not YOU are what she wants while she chats it up (and does whatever else) with the OM you need to be free of her and find someone who WILL love you the way you deserve to be loved. You don't need to be her doormat anymore - who the hell does she think she is using you like this because you loved her? That is just messed up. I would tell her I don't care if she's conflicted anymore or what the hell she wants, she's done and you're moving on. She will come back crying and begging if she really loves you. If she doesn't (and I think she's shown the caliber of her character already by lying to you and crying on some OM's shoulder), then you really are better off. I know it doesn't feel that way in the middle of it, but in time you will see that you and your daughter are better off away from someone who can lie to you and hurt you in that way. Any mother that can just walk away from a good man and leave her daughter is not worth her weight in salt. It is so hard to get out from under their spell, but when you do and you see her clearly, you realize that it was ALL a lie - and that you no longer need to put up with one more day of the lies and manipulations. Just the fact that she has moved out tells volumes. She is talking to OM during the middle of the night, and yet won't talk to you about how to work on the relationship. I wouldn't give her the time of day anymore. It's time to detach and worry about YOU, you have done all you can and have given her much more time than she deserves to have a change of heart. She will regret this in time, guaranteed. She may never break down and tell you that, but it will happen.

 

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best. I think it's great that you're looking inward and taking responsibility for your part in where you guys are today - but I would also really watch her behaivor - because you may not have a jealousy issue at all, she may have just said that to cover her actions. It seems suspicious that she is doing things that would cause anyone to question, but in this case she's saying that you are the reason why? So being a little jealous of someone MAKES them have an affair? Maybe. Whenever my husband would get a little jealous, I always just loved him MORE, built him up, told him how much I only wanted him, etc. and it would reassure him and he'd stop. The fact that your gut kept telling you something wasn't right most likely meant that it wasn't! She's just been lying to you! Another website that I've found incredibly helpful is lovefraud.com

[LisaUk]

Totally agree with the above post from dr. You are incrediably insightful!

[LisaUk]

MayI, it is because they think the world is supposed to be like a movie, and are not strong enough to understand reality.

 

I just remembered today that I didn't like a lot of things about mine...I was forgetting those because I got the tunnel-vision thing going to try to make it work. Think about those things for a while.

 

 

Lupa, you didn't have tunnel vision, you loved unconditionally, there is a difference. You accepted her faults as well as her strehgths and that is MARRIAGE. It shows you are capable of an adult relationship and have the ability to make one work.

 

You are correct, people do think it is like the movies, that there is a perfect person, a perfect relationship out there. They lack the insight to understand that they are not perfect, therefore why would their spouse be?

[tojaz]

Lupa, you didn't have tunnel vision, you loved unconditionally, there is a difference. You accepted her faults as well as her strehgths and that is MARRIAGE. It shows you are capable of an adult relationship and have the ability to make one work.

 

You are correct, people do think it is like the movies, that there is a perfect person, a perfect relationship out there. They lack the insight to understand that they are not perfect, therefore why would their spouse be?

 

I agree 100% Some people are always looking for what is better, shinier, more whatever, and they are far to quick to throw out what they have to chase what could be.

TOJAZ

[MrMayI]

had a good weekend. i'm of the belief that NC pushes further away, but that is where it is now. NC except for our daughter until the papers are in her hand. i'm done. i've accepted it, and while i'm not "happy" with the decision, it's time i put myself and my daughter back together. saw the wife yesterday. she looks like a completely different person and it's only been about a month. i don't know if it's because of what's happened that i see her differently, but i do, and i don't like the person i see. i don't need to have anything with that person, at all.

[LisaUk]

It might feel like NC pushes further away because as you are NC you don't see or hear the effects of it. However what is going on in your W mind may be very different form your perception of it. Just as you are giving off the impression by going NC, doing the 180, that you're OK Jack, she may well be doing the same. Internally, however it could be a very different thought process. NC and the 180 are IMHO the only way to NOT push a spouse away who is alraedy running.

[MrMayI]

It might feel like NC pushes further away because as you are NC you don't see or hear the effects of it. However what is going on in your W mind may be very different form your perception of it. Just as you are giving off the impression by going NC, doing the 180, that you're OK Jack, she may well be doing the same. Internally, however it could be a very different thought process. NC and the 180 are IMHO the only way to NOT push a spouse away who is alraedy running.

 

that's true. i'm not really trying to do a 180 anymore. it just seems to be coming naturally. if she's not doing as well internally, all she had to do is admit it. this tough girl act is for juveniles. i've offered everything in the book, and feel rejected from it all. the only choice now is obvious. it's still not the choice i'd like to make, but i feel like there's nothing else to be done.

[MrMayI]

i saw my wife, or stbxw possibly yesterday. she looked very weathered. the first thought in my mind was "result of all night phone relations", but then i realized she had been crying. i don't know over what. probably guilt over our daughter and where they are today. if it had anything to do with me it doesn't matter. it's like it's been said to me on here numerous times. she's giving all of that emotion to someone else. when she cries to an OM, it can easily become "your H is such a b**tard! you really need to get out of this", or something of the like. i'd rather hear the cold, hard truth about things than have my ego fed.

 

 

 

i've noticed i often post the same thing more than once, but with different emotion or reason behind it. o' the rollercoaster.

[lupa]

i saw my wife, or stbxw possibly yesterday. she looked very weathered. the first thought in my mind was "result of all night phone relations", but then i realized she had been crying. i don't know over what. probably guilt over our daughter and where they are today. if it had anything to do with me it doesn't matter. it's like it's been said to me on here numerous times. she's giving all of that emotion to someone else. when she cries to an OM, it can easily become "your H is such a b**tard! you really need to get out of this", or something of the like. i'd rather hear the cold, hard truth about things than have my ego fed.

 

 

 

i've noticed i often post the same thing more than once, but with different emotion or reason behind it. o' the rollercoaster.

Just like every rollercoaster, I have a feeling that eventually it runs out of steam and stops, the bar lifts, and we all get off and go buy a f*cking pretzel and a Slushie.

 

Look, I know this sounds crazy, but part of me sometimes (and just a little bit sometimes right now) appreciates the feeling and emotion that I'm going through. Personally I had cut off my emotion from the rest of the world, because 'that is what you do.' Now I'm going to TRY to relish this feeling, this pain...because I need to incorporate it.

 

Gunny keeps saying that this will make us stronger, and we all know he is right. So, while this is terrible, it is also beautiful in a bittersweet kind of way...we are going to make this part of who we are, and we are going to be better for it.

[Gunny376]

Its a life alternating event, and any life alternating event changes you ~ and the change is forever!

 

As hard as it is to believe? Its not the worse thing one can go through nor will ever go through? It just feels that way.

 

Basically it just sucks!

 

After my last break up (LTR) I said "Forget this!" And was Hell bent for leather to learn how to be single, learn how to live alone and be happy!

 

I've got to admit? Its been tough at times? Especially with getting out of the Marine Corps, moving to a small 'clannish' Southern town where I didn't know anyone, and starting over again.

 

But its made me stronger, more independent, more self actualized.

 

But its been a long time in coming, took a lot of hard work on my part, and isn't for the faint of hearted? Had I not served 20+ years in the Marine I don't know that I could have done it?

 

The most important part? Was shedding the cultural and societal myths, fallacies and lies ~ primarily about one cannot be happy single and alone. That one has just got to be in a relationship!

 

When the exact opposite is true!

 

The simple truth of the matter is that relationships are easy to get into, can be hard to maintain, and oftentimes difficult to get out of? Especially marriage?

 

The truth of the matter is? Its just easier to be single, than it is to be in a relationship.

 

That's not to say I will never marry again? But you can bet the ranch, your horse and saddle that if you ever do see my picture in the Sunday papers talking about getting married again? That's one wedding you want to attend and find all about who she is?

 

Because she'll be all that and then some! (I'm thinking along the lines of someone like LisaUK :love: )

[LisaUk]

OMG! Now I know you are kidding.

By the way Gunny, added you to my contacts if you want to have a look at my pics, put a face to the name?

[MrMayI]

i finally just finished reading divorce busting. too bad i don't feel the want to do any of the techniques mentioned in there.

[LisaUk]

i finally just finished reading divorce busting. too bad i don't feel the want to do any of the techniques mentioned in there.

 

I think you alreday are though? Anything in there to help me and my situation?

[MrMayI]

I think you alreday are though? Anything in there to help me and my situation?

 

well, it essentially flips the techniques in there from saving the relationship to being able to use them to let go. you can 180 on your own to clear your head of what you've been going through, and start doing things differently. it has a decent question section about writing out what you would do with the time NOT spent thinking about the past, NOT trying to resolve the problems, then DO that.

i like the idea of writing down everything in the past that bothered you, really visualizing it when you do, and then burning it.

 

i don't know if i'm using the techniques. i feel i've worked a fairly successful 180, but i still have to talk to her about my daughter a lot, and don't know what's working and what isn't, nor that i want it to work.

 

it sucks because i really feel i am at my wits' end, last resort. it's time to man up and put the papers on the table. part of me wishes it wasn't.

[TroyNJ]

MrMay, I have read this entire thread today and wow I'm so sorry for what your have been through. I went throught something like this but no seperation. 180 & LC worked for me, however I'm still recovering from the shock of it all.

 

I also feel right now your only shot at getting her to see her wrong doing is a "shock & awe" attack, serve her, expose her (to everyone) and let the chips fall..She has destroyed a Family and basically to this point is scratchless. Sorry bro but it's time to open up a can of whoop ass and let her have it. Not tomorrow....NOW!

[MrMayI]

i go cold, siberia cold for now. i can't "fall off the face of the earth" to her because of our kid.

[MrMayI]

oh man. just got a voice message to call my attorney today. off we go!

[LisaUk]

oh man. just got a voice message to call my attorney today. off we go!

 

Have you decided what you want to do?

[MrMayI]

Have you decided what you want to do?

 

i really havent, lisa. i wish i could say i have. the office e-mailed me the papers so that i can show them to her. we're supposed to go to another family dinner this evening. she's actually riding there with my mother, and i'm meeting them there. this may possibly be the first night since she left that our daughter won't be with us. i know what everyone says it's time to do, but i'm just not 100% on it. the LC has been working nicely in helping me get my head together.

[MrMayI]

i have a tendency to fall apart while i'm on my lunch break. it has happened during that time more than any other since this all started. i almost allowed myself to start questioning what i did so wrong to get to where we are today. i know that's not even an issue anymore. i may have done wrong things to get it to here, but i know i've done some right things to try and change it up and make it better. i told myself i'm only doing this to tell myself maybe i haven't done all that i can. i have, except for one thing.